Robert Jan van de Kraats - Chief Financial Officer Jacques van den Broek - Chairman of the Executive Board, Chief Executive Officer

David Tailleur - Rabobank Toby Reeks - Morgan Stanley Chris Gallagher - JPMorgan Nicholas de la Grense - BofA Merrill Lynch Paul Sullivan - Barclays Marc Zwartsenburg - ING Tom Sykes - Deutsche Bank Yves Franco - KBC Securities Konrad Zomer - ABN AMRO Hans Pluijgers - Kepler Cheuvreux Matthew Lloyd - HSBC

Yes. Good morning, gentlemen.

First of all, on the EBITA margin in professionals, it was rather flat in the second quarter, and in the Q1 I think it was up by 110 basis points, so maybe you could clarify that. And then, on France, your staffing trend seems to be quite stable on revenues, but perm is more volatile looking from Q1 to Q2.

Could you also give more color on that one, please? Thanks.

Yes. The professionals EBITA margin, I mentioned it, David, that we did see some impact coming through of the adjustments in the Netherlands that we're making.

Of course, it increases the internal focus, so that has not supported the return of our professionals business, and we expect the impact to change towards the end of the year into a positive mode.

Okay. And then - yes, sorry.

A quick follow-up on idle time, has that also increased significantly then in Q2?

No, that's not the main issue.

Okay. Thanks.

Sorry. The other one.

Compared to Q1, of course, you know that May is not the strongest month here. We have in that sense less working days, and that adds to idle time.

That is more a seasonal thing than a business related thing.

Yes.

To France, on perm, very happy with the trend, the growth trend as such, but there's two things here. One is it's of course still from a relatively low base if you compare, and perm is by nature volatile.

June was a bit soft, was also a very strong month within the quarter last year, so maybe comparison played a role here, but July looks pretty good again, so we do expect perm to be adding to our French results.

Okay. Great.

Thanks, guys.

And it's not just guys here. It's also Linda here.

I'll stick with two, as well. Could you clarify that July is better than Q2?

I think you said across the board regionally. Does that mean that all regions are doing better in - sorry, all regions are in line with Q2 or better in July?

And then the second one, could you talk a little bit about the MSP and the RPO business? Could you give the absolute level of revenue?

And what size of contract comes under MSP, and are we looking at all new regional and global deals now being MSP type transactions, please?

Okay. Toby, the July trend, I'll just want to stick to what I said before.

We see the volume trends in July, which we measure by week, we see it to be at least in line with the Q2 growth rates, and then I added per country. So it is across the board.

It applies to every relevant geography that we do see this trend continuing and to be at least in line with Q2 growth.

Very clear. Thank you.

I think that is pretty explicit.

Yes.

And then we move to the RPO question.

Toby, raise it again, please.

Just it was interesting to see obviously the strong amount of growth coming from MSP and RPO. Could you give us the absolute levels of revenue you're making from those businesses?

And secondly, what size of contract comes under the MSP? And are all the new large regional global deals MSP deals nowadays?

Well, just to start with answering the last part of your question, no, not all the programs are global ones, so there's a large part of the business in the U.S. which is a local U.S.

business. There is absolutely also a lot of MSP with our larger clients, but truly global as in everywhere programs are still fairly limited.

So that's one answer to your question.

Hey, Toby, it's Arun. On MSP/RPO, we're only giving you sort of an annualized number, and the ballpark is roughly €300 million to €400 million of revenue combined for MSP/RPO.

Okay. Thank you, guys.

Thank you.

Yes. So just a quick question on the difference in the organic growth in the Netherlands and the actual growth, which was 400 bps.

And then the second question, in North America, Sourceright was plus 25%, and I'm just trying to understand how you're growing so much there. Are there some large contracts you've won?

So Sourceright in the U.S., we're getting huge growth in two areas. First of all RPO, which is up north of 20%, and that is a combination of new accounts I think we've had a record new account level this year, but also expansion of existing customers, so both are contributing.

The same is true in MSP. We've won a lot of new programs.

Customers are now in second and third generation MSP programs and are often looking to upgrade, so we've had some very significant wins there, but also the volumes within our existing clients continue to grow. So the good thing about the Sourceright performance is it's across the board, and I think gives you an indication of also what's going on in the market with the MSP as a good bellwether for the revenue trends to the market overall.

And just trying to get the numbers right, the latest indication of the Dutch market was at 11%, and our June underlying exit rate that I gave you earlier was 13%, so these are the numbers that we have here. I hope that clarifies.

Yes, sorry. I was talking about for your last quarter the organic growth was 14%, the actual was 10% for the Netherlands.

We don't recognize those numbers. That's one.

But the other one is that you need to take into account that if you look at growth per working day in the Netherlands, certainly May was a very funny month, whereas for example May 5 was officially like a holiday but we found out that a lot of people were working here. So that portrayed a little bit too rosy a picture of the growth per working day in the Dutch market, so that's why we give you the underlying trend, which is much more closer to reality, actually.

Okay. Thank you.

Morning, guys. Two for me, as well, please.

Just firstly in terms of restructuring, you took another small charge in Germany in the quarter. I was just wondering if you felt that there were further cost actions that could be taken elsewhere in the Group following the restructuring program of last year.

And then the second one, just on pricing trends. Obviously, the temp performance was a slight drag on gross margin, and you mentioned that pricing pressure was an element of that, as well as mix.

I was just wondering, has anything changed in terms of the pricing dynamics since the last quarter, and if so, which regions stand out? Thank you.

Well, pricing, there's nothing materially changed. There's a pretty stable development in many markets.

Everybody gets very excited in the business about large contracts, and then had some pricing pressure, which as you can see we offset either through delivery models or through overall cost. The cost in Germany is our professionals business, where Robert Jan indicated we've put our Randstad Professionals business and our Group freelance contracting business under one management.

So we need less costs, so this is mostly branches and management that we're taking out here. There's also a market reason.

As you might know, there's quite some legal, well, change or call it a clarification on the position of freelancers in Germany. This has gone on for two years.

So it's also healthy to position yourself, if you call it in sort of a vertical where you offer both temps, perm and by the way freelancers in the German market. So that's also a reason to put it under one management.

And if you look ahead, we'll be making some adjustments going forward, but I don't anticipate, let's say, very, very big amounts. We have charged €51 million in terms of the – over the last four quarters, in terms of restructuring, now €3.8 million.

You will probably see some more going forward, but I don’t think anything extremely significant. The way we look at it is like an investment.

So we evaluate any restructuring in terms of does it give us the return, and we aim at having a return within 12 months. Mostly, we are successful, not always completely, but this way we drive efficiency from restructuring.

Okay. Thank you and just one quick follow-up on that.

You said that the payback on the €60 million to €70 million restructuring was going to be half this year, half next. I was just wondering, is that still the case, and will that be more – I'm guessing that's going to be more second half weighted this year, given the cost trends that we've seen so far.

I suppose what I'm trying to say is I'm surprised that costs have grown as much as they did organically, given the restructuring program.

Well, there's nothing effectively specific other than the seasonal pressure in marketing costs and the additional investments we've made in FTEs across the board, so it should very much be in line. And if you look at the GP over FTE, in the meantime, our productivity has improved, so that's exactly the way we're steering the Company.

And then, finally, the way to evaluate this is that our incremental conversion so the drop-through should be north of 50% and it arrives at 61%. So let’s say we don’t surprised.

Okay. Thank you.

Thank you.

Good morning, everybody. Just really following up on that, can you break out the cost reductions from the programs that you took out in the second quarter, specifically?

And you talk about this over 50% ICR. As recovery picks up and you start to see signs of cost creep, how long do you think that's sustainable, as Europe starts to accelerate?

Yes, I think we provide a relatively high level of disclosure. We typically test that frequently, so I really think we should stick to the numbers that we have provided.

In terms of the incremental conversion, there's some further indication that we can provide is can provide is that normally, if a company starts to grow, that's the standard rule, first year we should realize a lot more by just adding some bonus commissions and marketing expenses. So typically specific OpCo, the ICR should be in the direction of 80%.

That applies to most companies, but not all. For example, in the professional space typically commission and bonus are slightly higher, and that means the incremental conversion goes towards the 50%.

But a lot of our businesses we look at with the standard rule of trying to get to 80%. And this typically lasts for one year, and of course it depends on the speed of growth, but typically, as a standard rule, you could say it's a year.

And then, after that year, we're starting to add more people, and then to the incremental conversation ratio typically goes to a level just north of 50%. And I think in most countries that’s what we start to see coming through.

So we have seen growth in the U.S. for long time and I think its pretty impressive if you look at the incremental conversion ratios, which still continue to be around 50% and that includes the professional business today.

The Japanese business has been growing for quite a while, and we still see it at around that level, and some others are contributing a bit higher level. At the same time, and as my final comment here, life is not linear and life is not mathematic.

So for example, in our French business we see a very successful run of our in-house business, which means that we're taking out the client from the branch, moving it inside to in-house, and that means we have to add some people, because we want to keep the people in the branch in order to address the SMEs. So, effectively, our leverage goes down slightly because of the strategic choice, because we want to enjoy the opportunity to get to new clients from the branch, as well.

So then the leverage goes down a little. But the first indications I gave you I think are very clearly reflected in the outcome now of 61% over the last four quarters.

I hope this helps, Paul.

Yes, it does. And in terms of - but you're not going to provide us with the gross cost savings you took out in the quarter?

No.

No, okay. Can I just one follow-up?

Can you provide any color on verticals in France, particularly construction? How's that doing?

Everything is doing well except construction. It's the wrong question.

Okay.

Construction in France is heavily - first of all, it's a cycle, of course. Second of all, it's still driven a lot by public investments, and they're not taking place at the moment.

Okay. That's great.

Thank you very much.

Good morning, guys and Linda. I want to drill down into your gross margin outlook, because you're guiding for a slightly lower gross margin quarter on quarter.

Last year, we saw a bit of an uplift. I think there was also some CSA in there, but could you perhaps give me a bit more color why the trend is not at least flattish to slightly up because mix improvements are feeding through, etc.?

And on the back of that, I would like to also know the gross margin development in the Netherlands, year-on-year?

Well, Marc, we'll give you a response on your first question, okay? And that is your assumption was right.

So last year some CSA impact in Q3, which improved the gross margin improvement in that quarter. So underlying - but of course this is part of business, CSA, and we had to make estimations on how much we needed to cover our costs or to cover any discounts we would give, and all of that resulted in more positive outcomes last year, as a result of which we did have an additional release.

Could you quantify that one? Sorry?

Could you quantify the number?

Marc, it effectively I think can be explained by explaining this difference. So normally, it would be a sequentially slightly lower gross margin last year, as well.

That is the…

Sorry? I didn't get that, Arun.

Arun said now it's up. And this is the problem.

Sometimes you have a benefit, you have accruals, and then you have to explain it that year and the year thereafter again.

Marc, I would urge you to look at the gross margin movement Q3 on Q2 on a group level last year, and you could see it was up. There was an unusual breaking of the seasonal pattern.

Yes, I know, but I wanted to get a bit more detail on how big that was, because consensus was not penciling it in for this year's quarter. But this is…

Hey, Marc, there's just one thing I'm going to say on this. It's very much the customer profitability that's driving our decisions here, and I think the number that has been reported on Q2 clearly indicates that we are capable of making the right delivery against whatever the client wants as a service, but also what the client wants as a price.

Can I add another question? Do you have any client feedback, whether they see any signs of weakening of order books related to China or any other weakness that they're seeing in Q3, or is everything just as it was in Q2, no signs of weakening at all?

We're looking around the table as you ask your question. This again is a bit like, this is the difference between financial markets and life, and so the slowdown in China in the financial markets is two weeks old, and not recently talked to clients, but on a serious note we don't really see that.

Don't see it. Okay.

Clear. Thank you very much.

Yes. Morning, everybody.

I just wondered if you've got any comments on how high a percentage of gross profit you'd be prepared to take permanent recruitment and the combined level with RPO. And then just on your slides right at the beginning, I notice you've chosen the ASA data and not the BLS data for market growth in the US.

Is that something you think is accurate, or do you think that it's an amalgam of the two?

I’ll take the first one, and then Linda will do the second one. Of course, we don't have a deliberate goal in mind on where we can take the perm percentage.

We do have a deliberate strategy to increase perm, and there's two elements which are really driving that, certainly compared to the last cycle. One is the deliberate choice we make to grow permanent staffing.

That's something we really never had, certainly not eight years ago, so that's helping enormously in the percentage. And the second one, of course, is RPO, which again in 2007 was pretty nascent and now has really matured and maturing.

It's mature in the U.S. It's maturing in Europe.

And certainly Asia Pac is a large RPO market. So I don't know where it's going to get to.

It also depends heavily on where staffing and the rest of our business is growing, so if – but you can see there's definitely and also quite quick an upward trend in this, where staffing is growing and GP and perm as a percentage, so all's well on that front. No deliberate goal in mind.

And probably underlying your question, Tom, you might sort of address the sensitivity of this business or the volatility of this business going through the cycle, and please note that what Jacques said, the fact that we now have permanent staffing that is a little less volatile because it is very often served by hybrid structures, where we are more capable of making adjustments in a downturn than we would be in other parts of permanent placement business. So the characteristics of staffing are a bit more favorable here.

And then finally, I forgot to mention that, but we also have quite a few new markets where we are concentrating on permanent growth that we never had, such as China. I think going forward Brazil will participate there, and also in relatively mature markets but immature in terms of perm, such as Spain, where you've seen our professionals business from scratch growing into the business it is today, which also gives the Randstad Group the new perm.

You don't worry about increased cyclicality of your business?

That's why I assumed this was underlying your question, and that’s…

That's obviously it, yes.

But we think we can make more adjustments in the staff in perm space, and that's where we see a lot of growth at the moment.

Okay.

But you're right, if this becomes a very big part then we're a bit more sensitive, but I don't think it's going that fast.

Okay. Fine.

Let me put my philosophical hat on. You can also say that when at the end of a cycle people get hired more so normally staffing GP would go down.

Then perm would be offsetting, so there's an up and a downside to it.

Okay.

Yes. Tom, we don't typically look too closely at the BLS data.

I would say when evaluating our performance against the market, we usually look at a combination of the ASA and the SIA data. We find that BLS is quite jumpy, has strong revisions and is overly sensitive to light industrial only.

We do not, however, recognize the big dip that's been communicated in the ASA data. I do believe we are outperforming market and picking up share, but we think that maybe the ASA data – this was a combination of the monthly data that's provided, so there may be I think a revision up, so we don't recognize that dip.

But I would never refer to the BLS data. And the other thing in the ASA, things like conversions and perm obviously don’t play a role, so sometimes there can be a little bit of a trade off there…

It's not a gross profit number either, is it?

Yes, there's a real tightening of supply in the US, so we are seeing clients hire our temporary employee, pay a conversion rate and place an order for a new temporary employee. So there is – this is definitely all about supply at the moment.

The market continues to be strong. So I think that's not fully digested in that ASA data.

Fair enough. Thank you very much.

Yes. Good morning, gentlemen, and Linda, of course.

I'm wondering about the Dutch professional segment, because restructuring has been going on for some time and now a big hit was taken. Is this on some closure of the restructuring that has occurred in the quarter?

And can we see an uplift again after that to the 19 figure we saw in the first quarter? And then secondly, on your margin developments in France and Iberia, these are quite strong, especially in France, where you said that pricing would be somewhat more relaxed from your side, guys, giving away some subsidies.

And in Iberia, I think your operating leverage is becoming somewhat limited there. Can you maybe explain what drove the – is it again the strong increase in professionals there that drove the margins?

Thanks a lot.

So let me take the first question on professionals in the Netherlands. As we look back in the history, we see Q1 2014 as a quarter of construction, Q1 as rebuilding and Q2 of implementation, and you always get some issues and blockades which you find out during the way, but I think we were very successful in restructuring Yacht into the new Yacht.

The growth in terms of sequential Q1 to Q2 is mainly to do also with the working days. So working days are extremely unfavorable in Q2 especially for you Yacht business that's not very helpful.

But I think overall, with the 12% growth we can be very satisfied.

Yes. Okay.

Thanks.

On Iberia, well, you ask about incremental conversion rate, but what we are doing, certainly in Spain, is we're also – in the current market, which is quite positive, we're building this professionals business. So we are very aggressively hiring people we went from effectively nowhere like three years ago to now top three positions.

That come at across so again this is probably if you talk about capital allocation, where we didn't get any questions yet on that topic, but anyway, when we talk about capital allocation we also talk about investment in organic growth. And certainly in Spain, to a lesser extent in Italy, these are immature markets, as we showed you at a meeting we dedicated to that part of Europe.

So we think there's a lot of opportunity there to create a better business going forward in Spain. So, again, we talk a lot about ICR, and it's absolutely a very relevant one, but we also play with it, and sometimes we make deliberate choices to lower it, as Robert Jan for example alluded to in the French situation.

Spanish situation is also that.

But how much operating leverage? Sorry, Jacques.

How much operating leverage are you still seeing in the Spain business, because this has been growing for some time already? And in the slides, you also mentioned strong operating leverage and I would…

Yes, in my model of first year high incremental conversions, then moving to north of 50%, Spain has been growing for a while now pretty aggressively. We started to grow with a very clean cost base, so not a lot of overcapacity.

So the incremental conversion ratio in Spain in our books is a little below 50%. And that also serves the point Jacques made.

We are in the meantime adding aggressively a number people to strategic investments here. In Portugal, Portugal always had a high ICR, but they had a high ICR out of a relatively low margin.

So what we're doing in Portugal is, given the fact that we have 30% of the market, we want to rebalance our portfolio more towards white collar and SME. That's an investment at the same time we're sharing some contracts, so that results in a relatively low ICR, again, changing the business towards a better future.

And the French pricing, Yves, I think the conclusion would be incorrect to say that we are bridging the gap with market based on pricing. What we see is that growth is driven by a lot of commercial activities, activity based field steering, on top of that our strong positioning in the industrial segment.

Thirdly, as related to that, Randstad's in-house setup, which is very successful, and if we have a client and it starts to grow in the industrial segment, we grow with it and that's helpful. This year, there was a slight addition to subsidies, which we have used very consciously in the SME segment, or with clients in order to increase the size of our business.

So they have been very effective in increasing the customer profitability. I think that’s sort of the overall scope.

And just to illustrate, we're currently growing in SME in France. So that also adds and is a good sign I think of what we're doing in the market.

Okay. Thanks a lot.

Thank you.

Hi. Good morning, everybody.

Just a question on the U.S. professionals business.

The 2% growth I think is a very good number, but I was wondering if that's the start of a new trend. Do you think that you've turned a corner there?

And can you tell us anything about the profitability of the U.S. professionals business?

Whether or not it's below the average for the U.S. business overall, or any more detail would be very helpful.

Yes. I hope it's the start of a new trend.

What we've seen is the biggest part of our U.S. business is in IT.

Our IT business was working hard, I'd say over the six quarter to get their performance into strongly positive territory and they've succeeded. So the IT business is doing well, and that appears to be continuing.

The finance and accounting business, same thing. We [supply repair] work, and it is picking up steam, so we're very pleased with that.

Our engineering business is suffering a little bit of the oil and gas flu, but that's relatively small for us. So, yes, it's a strong market, so the market has never been the problem, and the improvements that are made appear sustained, so that's positive.

The professionals business is more profitable than our overall U.S. business, so, yes, I would, - so as the professionals business grows, that has a positive impact on our overall business.

It is somewhat more profitable. I think…

It is somewhat more profitable, yes.

And did you also see - like your margins in the US improved 90 basis points. Was the improvement in the EBITA margin of the professionals business similar to the improvement overall?

It was also improving, yes, Konrad.

Yes. Because the improvement is broad based.

The temp margins are improving. Pay bill spreads are good, [SUI] is good, conversions are up.

But your pricing is [smart] also based on availability of candidates.

Okay. Thank you.

That helps.

Yes. Good morning, lady and gentlemen.

One question on France or the pricing environment. How do you see that going forward?

Do we see already, let's say, pricing pressure picking up? And how do you see, let's say, the margin development going forward?

Do you believe we are close to peak margins? You still see some underlying improvement, but assuming current trends in sales will continue, do you still have upside in the EBITA margin?

And secondly, I come back on the cost savings. Also again assuming current trends in sales will continue, how do you see the net impact from the cost savings and underlying investments and normal inflation?

Do you believe that costs will continue to go up, or could you give some feeling on that, how you see that development? If we let's say look into 2016, end of 2016, how do you see that cost level then?

Let me do France, and then RJ will follow up. So yes, of course, our results and profitability, EBITA as a percentage, is good in France.

We're happy with that. We're concentrating on growth in France.

So that's why, as Robert Jan already alluded to, we are investing in headcount. When we open a new in-house branch - we've opened roughly 20 new branches in the first half year, so that means we need to start a branch, or we do that, but we need to start the in-house branch.

We sometimes do that with the people who came from the branch, or we replace them. So we're investing there.

We're concentrating on growth. We do think that the French market has momentum.

We don't see a significant change from June into - from Q2 until Q3. So far so good, although, as always, August is there and then it's everybody's on holiday, so there's again the reset in September.

But so far, so good.

Yes. And then the cost development, if you look at 2015, the cost reduction, which was roughly half of the program, most of that arrived in Q1.

It was related to the Dutch restructuring. At the same time, of course, we had to process wage inflation.

And by the way next to currency impact, wage inflation, and we have started - we have continued to add FTEs. So I would say that is the picture of 2015 If you look at 2016, I expect it to come in more gradual, because it's not a big hit like the one that we had in the Netherlands in Q1.

And on top of that, we'll continue to see wage inflation again, extension of FTEs. So the real way also to measure this is to clearly look at the drop-through rate, the ICR, and the productivity measured over FTEs.

Of course, if we have a one on one, I'm very much willing to show you where you can see it, but it's clearly coming through and we expect to see the same next year.

Okay. Thank you.

Good morning, gentlemen. A slightly longer-term question.

In the last – since about 2011, the share of the labor force in the Netherlands that's been temporary has been growing, but the share through agencies has been flat, so you seem to have been losing share as an industry up until perhaps last year and the beginning of this year. Do you think you can regain that lost market share as an industry?

And what do you think caused it?

Yes, there is a few elements there. One is the rise of the freelancer.

Certainly, if you measure it in money, then most freelancers are at the upper end of the labor market, so you should think bill rate well, €8 or something. If one freelancer comes in the market, so that offsets like three regular temps, so that's a bit of a thingy.

What we do see now, the relatively rapid growth of the Dutch market is absolutely to a certain extent the catch-up effect. So I think we can expect the whole penetration rate of temps in the Netherlands to go up.

Also, in the U.S. we're at record numbers in terms of penetration, so we do see that in an upward cycle, a prolonged upward cycle penetration rates goes up again.

Okay. Thank you very much.

I would add a few things on that, on the Netherlands. I think your observation is correct, that there is a big bag, actually, of flexibility coming in.

It's not only staffing anymore. It's everything.

So that's a good point, I think, because we are also in all those business lines. So it is not only through an agency; it's much more than that.

And next to that, I think that the new development in the law and legislation will give a relatively better position to flexibility and also through the agency staffing. So that will give us, in line with what Jacques is saying, I think a better perspective on the long term.

Okay. Thank you.

Yes. Thanks again.

Maybe a little bit early, but I am looking at the new legislation in the Netherlands. You indicated that the exit rate for the Netherlands was 30% and you [principally see] that July per country is at least in line with Q2.

But could you give some feeling if you have seen any impact, let's say, from the legislation that maybe temps are being shed somewhat? Or do you see that maybe also by segment?

Could you give some feeling maybe if there is some difference? Could you give some indication what you're seeing there?

I think it's what you mentioned in the beginning of your question is far too early to say. It's July 1 when the law was implemented.

So I think we can see probably at the end of year some effects, and some probably negative, probably positive. You've seen in the news, but that's already a long time ago, actually, a few months ago already, that there are some clients which were, well, probably doing something which was related to the legislation.

In my opinion, that was not a correct observation. Flexibility is everywhere, in every sector, and clients are really flexible right now, and that's why they probably just in terms of the cost savings are also cutting costs across the board.

And I think it's nothing to do directly with the legislation. But as said, it's July 1.

Let's get back to your question in Q4.

But maybe following up, what's – sorry.

Just want to add on, for Jacques, so too early to tell. The funny thing, by the way, as a result of the law, is that the situation around fixed labor is less secure, as in what can I expect if I hire someone, whereas the situation with flex is very clear.

So we'll see what the result will be.

And maybe one follow-up on that, because you said maybe the end of the year we'll see maybe some positive, maybe some negative impacts. What do you see potentially as negative impacts and what potentially as positive impacts from this new legislation?

Well, the negative effect normally is that there is less temps for us, and the positive effect is that there is more temps. What do you want to know?

Okay. But let's say how the effects could work from this new legislation?

That's all the theoretical stuff. Let's look at results.

We're currently seeing a good market in the Netherlands, and let's hope that stays, driven by economic factors, not so much the legal framework. So we'll update you.

Probably at the capital markets day we might know more.

Okay. Thank you.

End of Q&A

All right. Well, thank you so much for joining us on this call.

We look forward to connect again at the end of October on our Q3 results. And on behalf of Linda and the guys over here, we wish you a nice summer.

Bye.