Tessenderlo Group N.V.

Hello, and welcome, everyone, to our 2025 annual results webinar. We will start today with a presentation from our CEO, Luc Tack; and our CFO, Miguel de Potter.

After that, we will give some opportunity to some of our analysts to ask live questions. [Operator Instructions] Thank you.

And with this, I hand over to Luc.

Good morning, good afternoon, and welcome, everybody, to our annual results reporting on the year 2025. Thank you for tuning in.

Boy, I must say it's been a rocky ride lately. Sometimes I started working when I was 18, so that's a little while ago.

And so the way we have today within Europe, sometimes I feel even that we are in South America, where I had the crisis in the '80s and the '90s one after the other. Now we are into our third crisis in Europe.

We had in 2020, we had COVID, then we had 2022, Ukraine. And now we have Iran.

Each time quite disruptive to businesses causing a lot of uncomfort. Having said that, we are always with our feet on the ground.

So we don't panic lightly. And in light of that, I feel that as a CEO of our company, that we will be able also to navigate this now Middle East storm.

Of course, it is affecting us in our company on different fields in different ways. Sometimes it has a positive effect, sometimes it has a negative effect.

Every effect that we have, we have no idea how long it will last and what it will be. And therefore, I'm sure some of you people ask questions, and we understand you ask questions but you will also understand that we don't have the crystal ball on how long the Suez Canal is going to be blocked, how long energies are going to be limited.

All of that, we know as much as you know, which means nothing. But having said that, as a company, what do we focus on?

We focus on what we can control. But no point in us focusing on stuff we do not control, we must focus on what we can control.

Yesterday, we had a lengthy Board meeting, and we debated a lot of all of this. And at the end of the day, and that will also be the guidance that you will be getting from Miguel, et cetera.

We find that last year, okay, we improved our EBITDA with EUR 22 million, which is nice. Would we like to do that again this year?

Of course, but today, we cannot guide you towards that. We are guiding you more results for this year in line with last year.

And then we will guide you further through the year as we see more clarity and as you will see more clarity and as everybody will see more clarity. But again, in this turbulent world, our company is fit to sail these storms and to come out of it.

Anyway, that's the feeling I have. So let me kick off by telling you a little bit what we have been doing and which have been key events.

So Tessenderlo Group is signing a JV to combine our collagen and gelatin business with Darling. The picture that you see here was the signature in Houston of the binding agreement.

And so of course, now we are going through the regulatory stuff. And -- so we are working with authorities.

So we are answering questions. And we will hope -- we hope that the transaction will close in 2026.

But again, that is not in our power. We need to satisfy every authority and give them the time to answer.

Of course, I'm sure you can appreciate that since this is a global business, there are many, many countries involved and some of them have different time horizon [indiscernible]. Tessenderlo Kerley opens a new plant in Ohio.

I was in the U.S. up to 7 days ago.

I have also been traveling. I was in Phoenix, I was in Houston, I was at different places.

And I'm pleased to say that today, we get a market confirmation that the Defiance plant is a good investment. Customers are complementing us on making that investment and are also happy that the product is now locally available.

I think you should never underestimate the logistics that come into our business. And by having a plant within the market where people can come and get a product is definitely further supporting our development.

Then this is a minor company, a smaller company that we acquired, which is Osterwalder AG. So what is Osterwalder doing?

Osterwalder is making powder presses [indiscernible] it's [indiscernible] technology because in our company, Melotte, we do 3D printing. And there, you build up a piece layer by layer out of powder.

Here, the process is completely the opposite, you take power -- powder, I'm sorry, and you put a high press on it. And because of very complicated molds, you can get a gear out of it for a car or whatever.

It has been a company and difficulties. It has not been an easy journey so far.

And again, I'm not going to bore you too much about it but we bought a Swiss company. And 6 weeks later, we were told that we had -- I forget now how much, 40% or [indiscernible] 39% of duties shipping to the U.S., our biggest market.

So this was again the perfect storm because of this -- like I said, sometimes this makes me feel like when I was in the '80s and the '90s when I was a lot younger and looking nicer than today but it still gives me the same sentiment. So -- but anyhow, that's behind us now.

And so we are learning to know more about the company, where the strengths and the weaknesses are, and that will be a continuing story. Then I'm very happy to announce you the acquisition of the Metam Labels in United States and Canada Eastman.

I must tell you the Metam has been the origin of our Crop Protection business by first acquisition, which must be 20 years now. And so we are further strengthening our position there in the United States.

And so we are very pleased that we were able to do this acquisition. So indeed, we did a share repurchase program.

Also a lot of you guys suggested us to do that. And we believe that this share repurchase program is contributing to the share price for our investors in the long term as if you buy shares, at the end of the day, future profits will be divided by less shares.

So at the end, it should support earnings per share going forward. So events after the balance date.

So indeed, here, we have the acquisition of the Cinis plant. So to give you a little bit background on Cinis.

Cinis is a company that was launched on the stock exchange in Stockholm and that was planned to have a very bright future by taking off sodium sulfate from the multibillion dollar or euro investment of Northvolt in Sweden. Now some of you probably followed that event there, and you know how that company got into problems.

And then consequently, also Cinis got into problems. So this is enhancing our potassium, which is a core business.

I would like to remind everybody that potassium is the second nutrient. So the first nutrient is nitrogen.

The second is potassium and the third one is phosphates. So in potassium, we specialize ourselves.

We do not play where the big docks play. We are more always in specialty.

And so that is what we produce, that is SOP. Most of the potassium in the world used is MOP.

And MOP is put straight on the field. And then -- and that's mainly used in areas where there is a lot of rain.

And as the rain drops out, the chlorides evaporate and then the potassium goes to the plant. What is SOP?

In SOP, we pull the chlorides out of the potassium and this is how the SOP is meant for dry area because in dry areas, people be using would be using MOP. At the end of the day, the soil would become like concrete because of the chlorides that would remain on top of the soil.

So our SOP is a perfect solution for mediterranean areas, for drip irrigations, et cetera. Having said that, of course, in the potassium world, SOP is probably maximum 10% of the volumes used worldwide where 90% of the application is MOP.

We have been producing SOP for a very long time, and we are producing SOP in Ham on our Mannheim furnaces. Our Mannheim furnaces are working on the basis of sulfur, high temperature.

And then we get the chlorides out, which then further valorized partially in our group to produce ferric chloride partially shipping to our neighbor plant [indiscernible]. So this is one way of doing it.

Cinis is a different process. Cinis is a process which is the glyceride process, which is a minority technique in the SOP world but where we believe we can create opportunity in producing more green because the SOP from the Cinis project will be produced on lower temperature with green energy, which is available abundant in Sweden.

And as a byproduct, we will have then also salts available for the market for the mainly de-icing market, et cetera. This is a new venture for our company.

We have been following Cinis for years. And we also had been looking -- we had been requested to participate in capital increases and what have you last year, et cetera.

We thought that was not a good idea that we -- that it was better to wait, that it would be the smart thing. Because now we are a 100% owner of the plant at a good price and can now develop this company.

Then in strengthening our Board, as you know, there, we are also -- we have changed the course the last 2 years where we have decided that we must bring more industry knowledge into our Board. Before, of course, we have always had a very strong Board, very good strong Board members.

But nowadays, we are choosing more with people with -- in our Board with in-depth industry knowledge. So the first gentleman that came to our Board was Sebastia Pons, who is a true agro specialist.

So now we are bringing in Madam Beatrice Bruey, who has a very long career with GEA Group, a DAX 40 company in Germany. And so she is joining us as a Non-executive Director, and she's been coopted in the vacancy of Mr.

Karel Vinck who decided to retire last year. So there also, we are further strengthening our Board and the respect of industry knowledge.

So this is then taking us to 2025, but I will hand it over to Miguel now to explain you the results of 2025.

Thank you very much, Luc, and good afternoon, good morning, everyone, on the call. Happy to be here and to present you our results for 2025.

So let's go first to our key figures. Our revenues climbed by 4.4% to EUR 2.7 billion going forward in 2025.

And our EBITDA grew as well by 8.5% to EUR 288 million compared to last year. You will see that we have a heavy loss for the period of EUR 80 million.

Most of it is related to what we call noncash items and impairments that we have taken through the course of the year and especially in the second half of the year but I will come back to that in a moment. Our CapEx amounted to EUR 135 million, about half of which was maintenance CapEx and half of which was growth CapEx.

We are basically finishing a big wave of growth CapEx with new plants. You have heard Luc saying that Defiance was fully operational since August, and we continue on that trend.

The CapEx guidance for 2026 is in the same range as 2025, albeit it could be a little lower than 2025. The cash flows generating from operating activities was still strong at EUR 225 million for the year.

So if we exclude FX differences, the growth in EBITDA, and this is for us the prime measurement of our financial strength is about 10%, 11% going forward. The group revenue per segment in terms of the distribution is relatively stable when you compare 2025 to 2024.

Our Agro division is definitely still the strongest division of the group and also the most profitable for 2025, all the other entities remain relatively similar. When we go into the group EBITDA per segment, we see that Agro has grown its EBITDA for the year to EUR 117 million, EUR 118 million.

That in Bio-valorization, we had a growth as well, but it's maybe a tale of 2 stories between PB Leiner and Akiolis. I'll come back to that.

Unfortunately, Industrial Solutions was not able to materialize any growth. We've had very challenging times in the construction market, especially in Europe and in France, in particular, which is definitely difficult for the growth.

And Machine & Technologies in the first half of the year, you remember that Picanol had a very strong first half of the year that is completed into these figures. For T-Power, we have a full year of revenues of RWE under the tolling agreement.

So when we go into our Agro segment more in detail, and I repeat our Agro segment, these are our Kerley brands, so Tessenderlo Kerley for the international business and Inc. for the American business.

And we have as well Violleau, which is our organic fertilizers. Agro segment has a very strong second half of the year, as you can see, even without -- if you take off the one-offs like the impact of Tiger-Sul, which has been contributing to the figures for the first time this year.

Second half revenues growth of 13% or nearly 14% on the top line and the adjusted EBITDA, as I mentioned, of just short of EUR 118 million, which is a double-digit as we like to see in the Agro segment. We had to take also some impairments in the Agro segment.

One impairment was related to some inventory of crop protection products that we have in the U.S. Our second segment, Bio-Valorization segment is -- we have 2 companies there, PB Leiner, the gelatin and collagen business as well as Akiolis, which is more our rendering business in Europe.

You see here actually a tale of 2 stories. First of all, the rendering has been more positive contributing to the Bio-valorization segment this year than the gelatin and collagen.

The gelatin and collagen within PB Leiner has gone through restructuring. We closed our plant in the U.K.

earlier in the year, which was doing bone gelatin. So there, you see definitely a drop in revenues with less products being sold.

We also had an incident in our plant in Argentina, our collagen plant in Argentina, whereby we had to stop production for quite some weeks and the plant is still not 100% operational, but only, I would say, 75% operational right now. So not fully contributing to the results as we would expect.

Just as a reminder, our PB Leiner business is definitely, as Luc mentioned, now up for the merger with the Rousselot business from Darling Ingredients. Industrial Solutions segment, we have 3 brands there, DYKA, Kuhlmann and moleko.

DYKA is our pipes and fittings manufacturing. We had -- while you will remember, we had a very stable first half of the year, there has been a significant decrease in the second half of the year, especially on the EBITDA.

You see the EBITDA overall is minus 50% compared to the year before. Several reasons for that.

The slowdown in the construction sector, mainly in France but also in other parts of Europe have weighted negatively on the results. Secondly, for Kuhlmann and moleko, the first half was not great, and it continues like that in the second half with even further deterioration of the volumes, mainly, but we were able to maintain our margin in both sectors.

Machines & Technologies segments, Picanol, Psicontrol, Proferro and Osterwalder as well as Melotte are part of this segment. You will remember that we had a very strong first half of the year.

The second half is in line with the previous year, so less strong, unfortunately. But it's also a tale of several stories here.

While the wheel machines are currently suffering from the geopolitical environment and the crisis in textile in general, Psicontrol and Proferro, as well as Osterwalder and Melotte have been able to grow outside of the Picanol Group, meaning that they are now having much more outside revenues than intercompany revenues, while they were just suppliers of the Picanol Group, which is not the case anymore. Brings us to our last segment.

T-Power. T-Power has done relatively well in 2025, relatively well because of much more start stocks and much more availability, which gets some bonus payments under the tolling contract with RWE.

A lot of you will ask, hey we have the question, what will happen with T-Power after RWE? Well, unfortunately, we cannot disclose anything so far.

What we can disclose is that we have several options on the table. None of these options is a binding option so far.

And in the current volatile environment, we will only communicate when a binding option has been done or has been signed. But we do believe that -- and we do believe that on the 1st of July, there will be a new contract in place for the future of T-Power.

Let me walk you through the adjusted EBIT to profit details. As I already mentioned, we took some large impairments and noncash items in the second half of the year.

First of all, our Tessenderlo Kerley International SOP plant in Ham, it's a very vintage plant, as we call it, with still a big legacy on the phosphate when the Tessenderlo Group was still doing phosphate fertilizers. This plant needs a lot of maintenance.

And our maintenance and the CapEx has been building up in the book value of the plant, but doesn't really match the value in use of the plant. So we were forced to take a EUR 26 million impairment on that particular plant.

You will remember as well that when announcing the merger with PB Leiner and Rousselot, the plant of Vilvoorde was typically excluded from the perimeter of the transaction. We therefore, have also impaired a big portion of the machinery and assets on the plant in Vilvoorde, which is -- which has been up for sale since the announcement of the transaction.

And then we did some other adjustments in our environmental provisions and here and there, some smaller impairment losses. This amounts to EUR 78 million in total.

EUR 59 million or nearly EUR 60 million are finance costs, finance costs that are related to mainly interco loans, intercompany loans between Europe and the U.S. that we have to take on a mark-to-market basis each time we publish our balance sheet.

We started with a euro-dollar rate of [ 1.03, ] and we ended up the year at EUR 1.175. So mainly the largest portion of this finance cost, EUR 54.4 million is related to that.

And the rest are cash expenses. If we want to do the bridge of the net financial debt, EUR 288 million of EBITDA.

What did we mainly do with that? Well, EUR 135 million of CapEx, half of which growth CapEx, half of which stay in business CapEx.

So that's a big portion. We spent also EUR 21 million in 2 acquisitions, one, Osterwalder AG and the second one of the Metam Eastman contract.

And we distributed about EUR 80 million in shareholders value through dividends or through share buyback. Our outlook, and Luc already anticipated our outlook, it is in the current market environment for us very, very difficult to come with very precise outlook.

Do we prefer to play it safe by saying we will be in line? Remember that as from the 1st of July, the very strong tolling agreement we have with RWE will not be in place anymore.

So being in line with 6 months of itself. And we never know what will happen with the straight of all with the front in Ukraine.

We believe that saying that full year outlook will be in line with the current figures is already good for us. PB Leiner is fully incorporated in the 2026 outlook, where we don't know when we're going to be able to close the transaction exactly with Darling Ingredients.

Please note that the transaction might also give a capital gain on the merger at some point with Darling on the basis of PB Leiner. And then we would like to bring you to another topic.

We have, and you have seen that we have EUR 158 million of cash on our balance sheet sitting as of the 31st of December. So it has been the intention of the group together with the Board to do and bring a new division or business units to life.

The details are still being worked out as we speak, but more an investment vehicle, whereby instead of deping cash at the bank at a relatively stable rate, we believe it is better to utilize it to do some smaller investments, not only acquisitive M&As for 100%. As you know, Tessenderlo but we would be inclined and open smaller tickets investments, maybe some in -- to the extent small that can be very liquid and others where we would take a minority position in some larger companies, whereby we would limit ourselves not to the full management of the company, but to board position maybe within those strategic companies.

Then we have our financial calendar. The annual report is going to be published on April 1, that's next week.

The Annual General Meeting of Shareholders is May 12, and our half year figures will be published at the end of August on the '26. And I think, Bjorn, we're going to take some questions now from the audience.

That's correct. Let me quickly check.

I will give analysts the possibility. I will put them live and then they can ask their questions.

I will start with Christian Faitz the first one. I'll bring you on the screen.

Yes, all the best for these difficult times. I mean you guys need to manage businesses.

We just look at your shares. So a couple of questions, please.

First of all, how do you see the development and availability of sulfur impacting your SOP business? I believe something like 40% of sulfur -- global sulfur volumes are passing the straight.

So how do you deal with that? And maybe in combination with that also higher energy costs for your Mannheim process?

That would be my first question. And [indiscernible] and if you could tell us a little bit if and potentially '27.

Christian, thank you very much for your question. Yes, sulfur shortage has been around for quite a while, to be honest, especially the kind of sulfur we need.

But luckily enough, we have some several types of contracts with various sulfur suppliers. Long term, we don't buy a lot of spot sulfur, and we get a guarantee of supply for our facilities around the world.

There are some plants that we have in the U.S. that are directly connected to a refinery and they get sulfur actually piped through -- directly to the plant.

So it is an issue. The price is definitely an issue, but the availability for us for the moment is less an issue.

Well, we don't know how long the crisis will last. I was reading this morning that some vessels were still sailing through [indiscernible] they will reopen it by next week, and that would be one crisis less.

But indeed, we're monitoring the situation actively. The energy cost and the energy situation in general for the group, we have several hedges positions for the coming 3 years, be it on gas or be it on electricity.

All hedges and all companies and all plants have different hedging mechanism because of the various geographies. We don't hedge the same way in the U.S.

as we do in Europe. And we don't hedge the same way in France as we do in Germany or Belgium for that instance.

But I would say that more than half of our portfolio today is currently hedged for 2026 and about 40% is hedged through 2027.

[indiscernible] To add some flavor to that to be sure, so determined by the index. We are a victim of the index increases or we benefit if indexes are going down.

In respect of the energy costs, indeed, energy is an important factor in the chemical industry. And since you are a chemical industry expert, I think it is important to say that we, as chemical plant do not use gas as a raw material.

As other fertilizer companies on the nitrogen. Gas is there raw material.

They take the gas, they make the hydrogen from the hydrogen, they make the ammonia, from the ammonia, they go on to the UAN or to the urea, right? So that is for them a completely different picture than ours.

Having said, of course, your questions on visit when you came for our Capital Markets Day, we were grateful that you were there. It helps you always understand it better.

It is a plant where we also have exotherm processes, meaning when we make our sulfuric acid, we have steam that is coming available, which is producing electricity. So we also have some hedge there for the consumption on our side.

What is though more concerning for our Ham plant is that we are connected through a pipe system to Violleau. And Violleau is taking HCL from our plants from our Mannheim, pipe it to Violleau.

They then put it into VCM, which is then going into the plastics. You may be aware or you may not be aware, but currently, Violleau is under a daughter company of ICG in Germany currently under court protection.

And so that would influence our business in a way that if they cannot take our AGL that might have an impact on us. We understand that the management is hard working at Violleau to find solutions.

But still, we want to highlight a little bit that we -- not only to the Middle East difficulties, we are also having these difficulties of chemical companies which are interconnected with us sailing difficult times and making losses. I'm just sharing public information here, but the losses at Violleau since 2023 have been higher.

And so that for sure has an impact. So I think you will understand a little bit what has been happening to us.

The impairment, why do we need to take an impairment? We need to take an impairment because earnings do not support our capital employed into the business.

So we do have a problem there in respect of competitiveness of the business. Now our colleague in the Mickael Chicot, who is our Chief Transformation Officer, has also been there at the plant.

We are engaging in constructive constructions also with the unions on what we need to do to increase the competitiveness of our plant in Ham. The plant can, for sure, have a good future, but having to take such an impairment is, in my mind, I see it as a kind of punishment because at the end of the day, your return is not high enough to support your capital employed.

And definitely, there is a high degree of urgency there to improve the situation going forward. And there, we definitely need to call on our unions to make sure that we, as a team work together and not against each other to achieve more productivity going forward.

It is important to say that our Mannheim process is more labor-intensive than general chemical plants, which run on reactors and pumps like we do on our liquid fertilizers. Here, it's more builders, it's more movement, it's more people.

And I have always been an investor in Belgium, me personally, and I have always been fighting for every job in Belgium. But of course, it always takes 2 to tango, and we need the support of everybody.

I must say sometimes it has been difficult to bring across that sense of urgency. It looks like now we are in a better momentum.

And therefore, we hope that, that impairment will be a one-off and will not reoccur in the future because it has to be said the business still need a lot of investments, Miguel highlighted there that some of the buildings are old and antiquated, et cetera. So we will need to further invest there.

And so these are tough times. Having said that, we make the best SOP in the world.

I want to highlight that. We make the best, and we are also recognized as such in the market.

So -- but the turmoil that we went through, you should not forget that we were sourcing for 50 years, everything from Belarussia and Russia. Now we are getting it from much further away.

We're getting it in Skatchewan, putting it on unit trains from Skatchewan to Vancouver and Vancouver in through the Panama Canal, it's coming to Antwerp. I do not need to tell you how much extra logistical cost that brings with it.

So I'm just trying to inform the market and all of you and also why we are kind of and giving firmer outlooks with all what's going on.

Let me put the next one. So as the next one, I will -- Wim Hoste from KBC.

Let me put you on the screen.

I have a couple of questions. I would like to ask them one by one.

So continuing on Agro, how is your pricing power and volumes developing at the moment? We hear that, yes, there's quite some shortage.

You mentioned that sulfur indexes go up. But how fast can you translate that into your own selling prices?

And yes, how are volumes doing both for ATS and SOP. Can you comment on that, please?

Well what we are doing, of course, we are -- firstly following all our raw material costs, which are indeed going up, right? And we are passing on price increases accordingly.

So in that respect, the margin is there, and we are working with customers. And I think that needs to be said that both on supplier side and on the customer side with the exception of our MOP sourcing from Russia and Belarus, which has changed.

But for all our other suppliers that we have customers, we have very long relationships. And through these very long relationships, quite often 20 years and longer, we have been working with each other and everybody understands the indexes, everybody see what's happening and everybody understands we need to adapt accordingly.

So on that front, we are okay. We are also -- since we are in these long-term relationships, not there to take advantage and say play customer.

That's not what we do either. So we value these long-term relationships, and we want to have these relationships in the good and in the bad times -- and so things are going as they should be going, we think.

Okay. Next question would be on the capital allocation.

Your share buyback program has terminated end of December. You mentioned the vision that you will build regarding investments.

So what are the priorities for capital allocation going into the future? Is it a possibility to restart buybacks?

Or will you fully focus on building out that investment branch? Can you maybe comment a bit on that?

I'd be happy to comment on that. At the end of the day, it will depend on the opportunity and on the value creation.

You as shareholders, you rightly expect us to maximize earnings per share to deliver that. And we will always react into a way that will help us to create that value.

So going forward, we have decided to do this investor thing. I must say that is something that I was explained and told to me some 20 years ago.

20 years ago, I bought a company Atilab from Pierre [indiscernible], the CEO at the same at the time. And he explained to me at the time how he was using his shares that he was buying in big multinational companies, which were always liquid as a little bit as his bank account, where he said, if I see a big opportunity to invest into private equity, I sell shares and I invest in private equity.

And then whether a private equity fund is coming to it, I have cash coming in and I buy again in shares. So we have said we prudently use our balance sheet going forward, but always having in mind liquidity.

And the difference is if you do an M&A transaction, you buy something and you have no liquidity anymore, you spend the money and you have to work within it. It can go wrong or you may need money for something else but the money is locked into it.

Here, what we are trying to do is we're trying to build in more flexibility in our balance sheet where then through these positions that we take, we are able to increase or to lower according to opportunities that may arise in our core businesses that we can all of a sudden buy something, like we were buying this thing. This was not a strategy and look, we need to buy, we need to buy that.

We said we like the technology, we follow it. And then all of a sudden, if you need the cash, then you sell some shares, pay for it and move on.

So it is creating more optionality for our company to create more income. I think that's how you should understand it.

Okay. Clear.

And 2 more questions. The first one is on the outlook for Picanol given the fluctuations of the yen and rising interest rates, how are order books or what's the outlook for the Picanol business, the weaving machines business?

Well, I must tell you, I have also been traveling. I was in India.

I was in different places. So of course, we do feel today uncertainty, which has arisen in the last 4 weeks.

So I must say what is encouraging in the textile business is that the mill capacity is running quite well. So when you look with our customers, they are running quite well.

What we are seeing is that machines are getting older. And I think there will also need to be replacement of machines going forward.

CapEx require stability and financial stability. And of course, wars are not helping to that.

I must say that I'm -- despite the short time work that we are experiencing in Heber, where we unfortunately had to lay off some colleagues last week to align the production capacity more with the demand. We still have -- how you call it, if I may say, the sample days, we still have days of...

Technical deployment. Yes.

So we are still doing that. I can tell you that technology-wise, our leadership is still there.

And it is not just me saying it, it's even the Chinese saying it in the 5-year plan that our machines to chase the Picanol technology. So there, we are -- technology-wise, we are good.

And so then it is a purpose to go through these difficult storms that we are facing.

Okay. Understood.

And then a final question for me would be on T-Power. I recall from the past that utilization was very low.

So can you maybe -- without discussing really the options on the table or potentially on the table, can you comment on what the current utilization rate of the plant is in '25, for example?

Well, no, we cannot do that, but I can help you in another way, I believe. We believe that the future of gas power plants is not in the running hours.

The future is in the flexibility. We are going through a change in climate and climate, I mean in power generation, which is I would like to remind everybody when the sun is shining, there is free of charge and nobody pays for the sun shining and nobody pays for the wind blowing.

So when the wind mills are running, when the solar panels are producing a lot of power, then the power is not running. But what do you do if there is no wind and there is no sun?

And this for a prolonged like they say in Germany, . So what do you do that?

But then you need the gas plants, right? And you may need them a few hours per day.

You may need them at peaks and evening, et cetera. Our power plant is very flexible to be able to help in all these situations.

So this is a little bit what we can tell you about T-Power.

I think we have 7 minutes left. So I will put on Frank Claassen.

Just put you on screen.

I've got 2 questions left. First of all, on DYKA, the PVC prices have also risen because of the crisis recently.

Could you elaborate how you're dealing with that? And what the impact could be on DYKA?

That's first. And then secondly, the CapEx, well, flat in '26, which means still half of that is growth CapEx.

What are the main growth projects where you spent your growth CapEx on in '26?

All right. I'll take the first one.

Miguel can take the second one. So on DYKA, indeed, so polymer prices are going up.

We using PVC polypropylene and polyethylene. As such, we are also adapting our sales prices as we have to.

But for me, the biggest problem that we have in Europe is that every politician also in Holland and everywhere is talking about the housing shortage and how we should address that. To me, that is a huge opportunity for our economies if we can unleash the construction market.

And I think that's really what we need. There is a shortage of -- in every country of thousands of housing yet, the release of building permits is still coming down.

Figure that one out, big shortage and building permits going down. So there, of course, there is a big appeal towards governments.

By the way, unleashing permits and unleashing grounds has no budgetary problems, right? It doesn't cost the government any money.

just make a decision, let's free up space, let's free up permitting. Let's make sure that permitting do not take 6 or 8 years to be granted with endless appeal periods, et cetera, so that we can get the economy moving.

And then to me, that is the most important that we need.

Yes. And the PVC price have been quite low for quite some years right now.

And so seeing the PVC price increasing, it's not a shock. It is something that we had foreseen.

There is an overcapacity of PVC in Europe in general. We talked about the situation with Lenova earlier.

And so yes, they gradually increase. But okay, we are also hedging our PVC supply for.

So we don't need to pass on those higher prices to the customers yet. Of course, nobody knows how long the situation will last.

To come back to your CapEx question, Yes, the guidance is not lower in '26. The main growth project we still have ongoing is the expansion of our ferrochloride capacity in Kuhlmann with everything that entails higher voltage transmission lines, et cetera.

And the second largest project we have is the gasification plant in [indiscernible] for Akiolis, where we convert biogas into electricity basically. These are the 2 main growth projects.

And then we have got plenty of small debottlenecking projects around the world that will make most of the growth initiative for '26.

Okay. Thank you, Frank.

If I look at the Q&A box, I think a lot of questions have been covered. In the meantime, maybe we take time for 1 or 2.

Go ahead.

The first one, does the dividend payment from the available share premium mean that there will be no dividends withholding tax clients?

Well, it's a very good question. And actually since the morning, I think a lot of persons have texted us to ask that question.

The answer is not no. There will not be any dividend -- any withholding tax to be paid.

It will depend at the exact date of the dividend payment. But for the portion that is coming out of the share premium, it is in Belgium indeed free of withholding tax.

A portion will still come from the provisions for which a very smaller amount normally of withholding tax will be paid. What we can say already is that about 70% of the EUR 0.75 will be coming from share premiums and 30% from provisions.

So withholding tax is expected on only 30% of the EUR 0.75.

I think good news for the private shareholder because the net dividend will be higher. And so that's, I think, good for people that bought shares in our company that the net dividend is higher.

And some people have asked me the question, what does it entail for foreign shareholders with double tax treaty, et cetera? I don't have the answer yet, but we will look to that.

All right. Then maybe one final question.

If you're expanding the ferrochloride capacity in Kuhlmann Europe, why if volumes are lowering?

Well, volumes are lowering because we made a strategic choice to keep our margins at a certain level and not to go into a big fight with competition. The volumes are lowering mainly Germany and in Belgium only so far, which is good.

And we kept our margin in the larger French market and the U.K. to some extent.

This was a decision because we didn't know when the full expansion and debottlenecking of the plant will be 100% ready. A big portion of it will be ready in the coming months this year.

So there, we will maybe adjust our pricing policy and our volume distribution policy going forward.

All right. Well, thank you all for dialing in today.

Be assured, we will do our utmost best to run the company as good as we can. And this -- we have a long-term perspective so that we are doing a good job on the long term and not getting carried away with the of the craziness of the day.

So thank you all for joining us.

Thank you.