Netwealth Group Ltd.

Netwealth Group Ltd.

AASX:NWL
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Feb 17Next Earn

Q4 FY2026 · Earnings Call TranscriptAugust 25, 2026

Operator

I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Matt Heine, CEO and Managing Director.

Please go ahead.

Matt Heine

Thank you very much, and good morning, and thank you, everyone, for joining Netwealth Group's FY26 financial results. We've got quite a lot to cover today, we will jump straight into it, but thanks again for joining.

This financial year, or last financial year, I should say, was a two-phase year in many ways, and as has been well covered, particularly at the half-year results. On the one hand, we had the First Guardian matter, which was pleasingly resolved in late December, and more importantly, on the other hand, we had a very strong and successful financial year.

If we turn to page 7, you'll see some key financial results, which I'll walk through quickly. For the financial year, and I should also mention that the numbers are adjusted for the impact of First Guardian, and that can be seen in detail throughout the deck.

From a net flow perspective, starting off with the net flow number ex-pensions, it was a very strong year at $15.9 billion, and including pension outflows $15.4 billion, which was marginally lower than the prior financial year, but still an incredibly strong result. We finished the year with record FUA of $135.7 billion, up $22.9 billion or a 20.3% increase.

By way of an interim update, FUA, funds under administration, on the 21st of August was $138.8 billion, which represents net flow of $2 billion, which does exclude $600 million accounting for two large institutional accounts low-margin, which were refinanced elsewhere. Again, a good start to the year and sets us up well for our forecast.

Just to reiterate, guidance for FY27 is to achieve net inflows of between $18 billion and $20 billion, and we've reaffirmed that today. Total income for FY26 was $391.1 million, an increase of $66.7 million or a 20.6% change, increase; adjusted EBITDA $192.9 million, a $29.5 million increase, 18%; and also pleased this morning to declare a fully franked dividend of 21 cents, which gives a fully franked dividend for the financial year of 42 cents, an increase of 3.5 cents, and an increase of, therefore, 9.1%.

Again, a very good year for increasing income, as well as continuing to drive stronger profits. On page 8, you'll see how this converts, and again, we've had a very successful year of not only raising funds and growing our funds under administration, but also increasing our total income, as per our previous slide, by 20.6%, and resulting in an adjusted EBITDA margin of 49.1% as guided.

That does represent an increase to the adjusted EBITDA in absolute of 18%. On page 9, you'll see how this actually played out throughout the year.

These are numbers derived from Plan For Life, and do go to the end of March, but tell a very consistent story. The two leading platforms, ourselves and one other, accounted for about 80% of industry net flows, and this has been a number that's been very consistent now for a number of years.

Importantly, we are approximately five times higher, from a net flow perspective, than number three or four. We have got significant market leadership, and as I mentioned, ourselves and one other have around 80% of the total net flows of the industry.

Interestingly, when you look at the market share, and the market share changes in particular, there was only two platforms over the 12 months ending 31st of March that actually increased their market share. Netwealth moved to 9.7% of the platform market, and we'll come back to that during the presentation, an increase of 1%, whereas others either stayed flat or went backwards.

Legacy platforms, largely those sitting above us in the chart, collectively actually reduced market share by 2.2%. Again, tells a very consistent story, and one that gives us great comfort in our future growth prospects, and also in our forecasts.

A big part of, I guess, the ongoing success of the company and the adoption by a very broad range of advisers across the industry is that in FY26, we again executed extremely well on our strategy, which has now been in place for a number of years. On page 11, whilst I'm not going to go through every single one of these items, but you can see that under each of our key pillars, that is to accelerate the capacity to compete and scale both for advisers and also internally, we delivered on a number of very important initiatives for ourselves.

Probably the major initiative here was a significant uplift to our managed account infrastructure, which has been a major project that's been underway now for a couple of years, and gives us incredible scale moving forward, as well as a lot of additional capability which is being rolled out. Managed accounts continue to be a major driver of new business, and you'll see that in the proceeding slides.

We also drove a lot of efficiency through things like workflow tracker, digital onboarding, and document vault, which we'll continue to invest into for the benefit of both clients, advisers, and also network efficiency. The two key parts of our strategy, though, and no doubt you'll be very familiar with these, is that we are very focused on making sure that we leverage our core technology and our foundational technology to accelerate our share of affluent advice.

That is typically your mum and dad, $500 to $750,000, and up to $1 million, where advisers that are servicing this very important segment are looking for optimum efficiency. How can we help them drive a better adoption of the tools that we offer, but also help them service more customers, but importantly, without degrading the quality of the advice that they provide or the service that they provide.

This is really important, and we'll be referencing back to this repeatedly throughout this presentation, but also over the next couple of years as we continue to build out and roll out this strategy, which is we do see a pathway for those that are wanting to come on the journey with us for advisers to service more than the current 123 clients that they do. We can see that very easily going to 150, potentially even 200 or more in the future.

Again, just to reiterate, that is not at the degradation of service or advice, it's actually looking at how to improve the service they provide and improve the advice they provide, and also the ability to service more customers, which is increasingly important given the supply and demand. Affluence continues to be extremely important, and we have had a very successful year in that space.

Equally, through our private wealth and stockbroking segment, again, leveraging our core capability and core platform technology, we've delivered on a number of major initiatives, the two big ones being the launch of our individual HIN service, which unlocks the broking market and allows investors and advisers operating within the broking market to really benefit from all of these capabilities sitting on the Netwealth platform that we've built now over a decade and a bit, including bonds, structured products, managed accounts, Aussie equities, international equities, but combine it very neatly and integrated with the individual HIN offerings in partnership and conjunction with FinClear, who service a very significant part of the broking market in the vicinity of around 70%. We are very excited to have launched that product, and there's a lot of really good conversations going on across the market and the industry.

We also launched our Netwealth Private product, and again, this has been a really important milestone for the business as we continue to differentiate between the affluent product and the private wealth product. As a starting point, they share very common functionality and capability, but we see that capability diverging over the next couple of years as we add more and more sophistication to the Netwealth Private product.

The feedback from the market has been extremely positive, and again, lots of great conversations happening both with existing and also new customers, and we continue to expand the investment offerings. Sitting above these three pillars, and these really do, I guess, underpin the whole strategy, is that we remain very focused on operational and service excellence, that is both making sure that we deliver outstanding service, and that's everything from reducing call wait times to quality of administration, through to also being able to scale efficiently internally.

The other really important part is that we know, and we can see, and we've demonstrated that our investment into clearly differentiating our product range and our services means that we are getting access to a significantly greater and expanded number of opportunities through both our existing core market, as well as the new markets, including the broking one, which I've touched on. A great year, lots done, and the team executed flawlessly.

On page 12, just as a bit of an example, I know that many of you are keen to sort of see how this all actually comes to life. One of the key points I did want to also raise is that whilst we continue to step up our investment in our product and tech teams, and we see this as a key advantage and a key differentiator for the business, it's really important that we also take a very disciplined approach to making sure that that investment goes into scaling up our core infrastructure, our scalability, our security, but also delivering fantastic new capability at the front end, and a great user experience.

The screenshot that you can see in front of you on page 12 is just an example of some of the new portfolio screens that are coming to market in the next 4 to 6 weeks, which are really not only feature-rich, but provide a lot of information both visually as well as through tables, to help advisers, again, be more efficient, to help customers really understand what's going on in their portfolio. What I like to always talk about is to help advisers and their customers actually understand the strategies that are being put in place for them, visualizing the impact of whether it be investment decisions or the tax structures or the other contribution strategies they're putting in place.

We'll continue to really bring to life a lot of those strategies in the visualization, as well as making sure that there's a great user experience, continuing on an incredibly stable base. Equally, we have continued to execute and to invest into diversifying our revenue streams.

On the previous slides, you would have seen a number of these, in addition to things like launching individual HIN product and our private product. We launched a bond trading desk earlier in the year.

We continue to enhance our international trading solution, introducing capability such as VWAP. That's all really starting to flow through on the revenue lines, which you'll see on page 14.

Equally, jumping around a little bit back to page 13, you can see that the strategies that we've actually employed have also made sure that those key markets that I touched on before being affluent and private wealth are continuing to grow, and we're seeing really good diversification across all of those key client segments and good growth in the areas that we're investing. Again, very pleased with the outcomes of our investments, and also really pleased to see that our superannuation product, as well as investment and private wealth, continues to receive really strong support, with the total super fund value now at 45.2% FUA at June 30.

On page 15, another slide that was very pleasing to see from the recent Investment Trends Technology Needs Report is that versus market, and you can see the last couple of years detailed at the bottom, Netwealth share of wallet, so that is advisers using Netwealth as their primary platform, sits at 78%, which is actually above the market numbers of 73%, which have been very stable across the industry. What that really means is that the customers that use us are using us for far more of their new customer money, as well as their existing customer money.

That trend is really pleasing to see, and obviously one that we'll continue to expand and build upon. Important to note that, oft we'd love to see 100%, it's also unfortunately not a realistic number.

There is a lot of M&A activity in the market, we're seeing diversification of platforms where they're buying legacy platforms, which then they're moving across to us. You've also got legacy issues such as tax and other issues, which will mean that whilst we'll never get to 100%, we'll certainly continue to really look at growing that number of our primary platform share of wallet.

Moving across to slide 17, so, admittedly, early days, and you may not have had a chance to go through the announcement in a lot of detail, but we are pleased to launch our new strategy for FY27, and more importantly, for the next 4 years. We've previously launched the concept or our ambition, and again, just to stress, this is an ambition, not a forecast, to double our funds under administration by 2030.

That is what we've called our DX30 strategy, Double by '30, and we have a great level of confidence in achieving that strategy and that ambition because of some of the areas that I will walk through. The first is, and we've sought to quantify a lot of this for you, is that whilst we've talked about market share of platforms, they're the numbers we've looked at before, the platform market is only really one part of our total opportunity set.

When you look at the total opportunity set, and the areas that we're investing into and the products that we're bringing to market, it really is about expanding into many of the areas that you see on slide 17 in the dark green. That's where we compete today, and that's the untapped or TAM that we believe is available in the future.

When you look at these various parts of the market, we actually only really have approximately 2% market share. Plenty of runway and plenty of opportunity, and gives us, again, great confidence in our DX30 strategy, and well beyond.

Interestingly, if you haven't done the maths, to get to double our FUA by 2030, that represents a CAGR of approximately 19%, which is a combination of net flows, taking the FY27 our guidance is $18 to $20 billion, and also market movement, so that's calculated at 5%. To do that, though, we do need to keep investing.

Again, an area that we've talked about, and we've guided to margins for FY27, there is a range of capability that we need to keep bringing to market and working through. That is the things that we've already talked about, workflow efficiency, AI-enabled capability.

We were really pleased to launch our first generative AI chatbot, Nova, throughout the course of the year, and also a lot of self-service capability, helping advisers find information quicker and easier, enhanced workflow tools, et cetera. Clearly, we need to be able to keep investing into and bringing broader products to those key market segments that we've touched on.

One of the other key areas of our strategy, which again differentiates us, and we believe is really important, you can see on slide 19, we've deliberately tried not to jump into too much detail around individual product features, but what you can see here, and hopefully starts to make a lot more sense, is the ecosystem play that we've been investing into now for a number of years, and that ecosystem play really sitting on and being grounded on our unified data management platform. Unified is a business that we bought 2 to 3 years ago.

It was called Depo. We've rebranded that, and really sort of stripped it back to its core capability, which is an intelligent data management platform that connects to 32 enterprise solutions and aggregates, manages, and organizes information across the ecosystem.

Why is this important? We know that advisers in the industry, particularly where they're multidisciplinary, operating across wealth, accounting, and debt, that there are multiple systems sitting in their tech stack.

Many of them don't talk. There's disparate data silos within their businesses.

Being able to bring together and connect all of those different data points, and consolidate them into a clean data lake or data warehouse, to then push out into the various things that we're doing and other systems that they use, is incredibly important. We're seeing great small office growth from those using the system, and we continue to evolve and also invest into the reporting and the insights that practices and multidisciplinary firms, as well as licensees, are able to get from that unified data set.

As mentioned, that sits at the foundation or the core of a lot of our other product development. Clearly, the adviser platform is our core business and continues to be the key financial driver of everything that we do.

We're also investing into and bringing more product features into our client portal. Again, the stats are very strong, circa 65% of the industry is looking for a portal or using a portal, and that's really driven in many cases not only by a great customer experience, wanting to deliver a digital experience to their customers in a branded environment, but also solving for probably the industry's biggest risk, which is cybersecurity.

Through the client portal with new capability being brought to market in the next 4 to 6 weeks, advisers will be able to connect in via Microsoft Teams instance, they'll be able to share documents securely, they'll be able to chat live with their customers, all within a secure branded environment that is connected into the Netwealth ecosystem, and naturally works extremely well with the adviser platform for things like digital consent, online portfolio updates, as well as news and other services. Advice tools will continue to evolve, and we offer a range of advice tools already on the platform.

We are actively investigating and looking at a whole range of ways that we can help enhance the overall advisory experience. Again, generative AI, and what we've seen, is really changing the game when it comes to things that maybe even 12 or 24 months ago we may have not considered being part of the broader platform set.

ROAs, file note tools, all of those things we're actively investigating and looking to invest into as part of the broader ecosystem. Licensee solutions just making it really easy for them to work with us, to understand what's going on in their client bases and give them better access to not only what's happening across the platform, but also more broadly across their whole licensee, leveraging that unified data.

We think this is a really exciting strategy. We're getting great feedback on it from the market, and more importantly, it really does differentiate what we're doing against our competitors, particularly the legacy platforms who are still staying very narrow in their focus on just the platform piece.

We believe that platforms can and should do a lot more when looking at all the different jobs that need to be done across an advice firm, and that's where we'll keep investigating and investing. Coming to AI, wouldn't be a full year results presentation without talking about AI.

We're also conscious that there is a lot of discussion about AI, we are very keen to actually give some real tangible outcomes and areas that we're seeing the benefits. On page 20, we are basically detailing what our strategy is for AI.

Not surprisingly, it's around growth, it's around productivity, and it's around scale. Again, I'm not going to go through all of these individual dot points, but looking at the dark blue boxes, you can see some of the actual outcomes that we're seeing and that we've been able to deliver as a result of generative AI and AI more generally.

Nova I've talked about. Nova went live about 2 months ago, a generative AI chatbot to help self-service for advisers.

In the first month, it was already answering between 15% and 19% of all incoming inquiries, basically just sitting on top of our knowledge base and some other government websites. We'll continue to connect that to more and more data sources in a safe and secure way, and allow advisers to find out and uncover more about their customers and client base through that channel.

We're also seeing large-scale benefits just internally as we sort of automate and use data extraction and data management tools that can be automatically processed. We're seeing very significant, like all companies, productivity gains from the introduction of Copilot across all staff, and something that we're all using actively on a daily basis with many of our teams.

We've also recently in the last month appointed our first-ever General Manager of Data and AI, who comes from very significant Australian companies with a fantastic skill set and capability across very large data sets, and he's now getting stuck into a whole range of different opportunities and projects. An exciting time.

Again, we are seeing tangible outcomes from AI. We are investing heavily in AI and how we're using AI where it makes sense, and also making sure that we manage any costs associated with AI very carefully.

Corporate sustainability is very important to Netwealth and a key part of our culture and our values. Again, it's been a very busy year and a very productive year for our sustainability team and also from a giving and community perspective.

There's a lot of information there, which I won't go through now. We continue to be extremely proud of our partnerships with the companies that we have got listed there.

Banqer, our financial literacy program, continues to grow rapidly across the country, and I believe more recently we've put through more than 160,000 children through that program, which is outstanding. Fitted for Work, the Centre for Women's Safety, all fantastic charities and ones that we're very proud to support.

On that, I'm going to stop talking, and I'm going to hand over to Hayden Stockdale, our CFO, who's going to give you some more color and detail around the financials. Hayden.

Hayden Stockdale

Thanks, Matt. Thanks.

A warm welcome everyone as well. Now to start off, just want to reiterate what Matt said earlier, and that is this has been a very positive year for us from an operational and financial perspective.

I think also a year where we've taken important steps to resolve that First Guardian matter and how it affected members. To that end, while the accounts have been impacted by First Guardian, we have actually covered that in some detail 6 months or so ago.

Given its unusual nature, we've excluded it from all of the underlying financials that are presented today, and I won't really be covering it in any further detail. Let's start off with the financials on slide 24.

Now, I think the headline story for the year here is actually very similar to that of previous years, which is that our broad-based momentum continues to just roll on across all of our business. As you'll see here, we delivered 21% growth in total income to over $391 million, and that was driven by growth in all four of our major revenue streams.

Total FUA, which drives our admin fees, was up 20%. Funds under management, which drive our management fees, was up 28%.

Cash, which drives our ancillary fees, was up 40, sorry, 14% year-on-year. Trading volumes, which drive our transaction fees, were up 21% too.

We're also driving greater productivity and efficiencies for our customers, with account growth outfacing adviser growth by 12% to 6%, meaning our advisers are getting more efficient as we deliver them more functionality. It's also worth noting here, too, that every single one of the metrics on this slide is actually at a record level.

If we turn to slide 25, you'll see we also delivered record gross FUA flows for the year of over $32 billion, with gross flows remaining actually quite solid into the fourth quarter, too. As we reported 6 weeks or so ago, net flows did actually soften slightly following the federal budget, but we do believe that's temporary, as financial assets remain advantaged compared to property as an investment class.

Certainly, the $2 billion of flows that we've experienced in the quarter to date, I think, give us cause for continued optimism. On the right-hand side of this slide, you'll see that net flows from new financial intermediaries grew from 6% to 10% of total net flows, which in dollar terms for FY26 were up over 70% to more than $1.5 billion, compared to less than $900 million the previous year.

That's actually really encouraging, because flows from new intermediaries are typically a key driver of ongoing flows for several years to come. The other point to note here, too, is that most of those new intermediary net flows actually did come in the third and fourth quarter of the year, including post-budget.

They're not really fully run rated in that number. If we turn now to slide 26, here we show platform revenue for FY26 was up 21% year-on-year.

As I noted earlier, all major revenue streams grew to record levels, specifically our revenue base is also now more diversified. Within our revenue mix, ancillary fees benefited from a full year of higher cash margins, while organic growth in our management fees was the standout again for the year.

In fact, at the end of the year, funds under management represented over 25, about 25.5% of total FUA, compared to less than 24% a year earlier. That trend continues to see very strong growth.

Let's flip to slide 27. As I said earlier, one of our key growth drivers has been our number of accounts and how that is outpaced growth in our adviser base, meaning advisers are becoming more efficient.

Not only are our number of advisers and accounts growing, but the FUA and the revenue we're generating on each account is also growing and now, as you can see, are at record levels, as you can see. Average FUA per account is now over $700,000, with average revenue per account over $2,000, with this last metric being a real key bellwether of growth, high-gain growth.

Now, as accounts grow in size, and as we add a larger proportion of high-balance accounts, the combined effect with fee tiers and caps means that FUA growth is actually slightly outpacing revenue, with the resulting revenue margin that you're seeing here at 30.7 basis points, which we see as very healthy. I'll turn to slide 28 now, and a little bit about our operating leverage and investment.

I think we've proven in the past that we can grow well, and as we do grow, we're getting the benefits of the scale efficiencies. To put some numbers to this, you'll see on the chart here on the left-hand side that over the last 2 years, we've generated 135 basis points of operating leverage from our delivery, sales, and G&A functions.

Then we've invested the bulk of this into our RISE projects, as well as product and tech, to drive long-term growth, leaving us with a net 45 basis points of EBITDA margin improvement, also noting that we're quite conservative in fully expensing the vast bulk of our product and tech investments. If we want to isolate just the numbers for FY26, I've included those in the narrative on the right.

The pattern there is actually very similar. Our incremental investment in product and tech was about 100 basis points of margin, and in sales and marketing was around 10 basis points, as we added half a dozen plus new BDMs, while we actually got just over 50, about 55 basis points of efficiencies across our delivery and G&A functions.

In summary there, we're actually getting operational leverage in all the areas you'd expect, while we're limiting investment to only those areas that are either generating long-term growth or that are required for regulatory governance purposes. Now, the net impact of this is that we're delivering strong returns to our shareholders, as you can see on slide 29.

Adjusted EBITDA is up 18% to almost $193 million, with an EBITDA margin of 49.1%, which is square in line with our guidance. Just want to note here, too, that the transparency of our accounts is really highlighted in the conversion of EBITDA to pre-tax operating cash, which, again, similar to last year, is greater than 100%.

Our earnings per share rose 16 to 16% to 55 cents a share, with dividends of 42 cents a share for the year, including a final dividend, as Matt noted earlier, of 21 cents that the board declared today. Then finally, I'm told we have the second-highest Rule of 40 in the ASX at almost 70%, which is a really strong testament of both our growth and our margins.

Okay. I won't propose to go through slides 30 or 31, but I'll close out with slide 32, if that's okay, to that summary.

Bringing it all together, we're scaling, we're diversifying, investing, and we're earning. We've got strong growth and momentum, achieving record levels across all our key business driver metrics.

We're leveraging adviser and account numbers into outsized FUA and revenue growth, with an investment program that's driving adviser productivity and also assisted by structural tailwinds. We're adding new adviser relationships at a pace, and we expect to underpin FUA flows for several years to come.

We have a 2% market share of our TAM, as Matt noted, with plenty of growth opportunities ahead. We've outlined an ambition to double our FUA over the next 4 years.

We have the confidence to support our guidance that we've given for strong FUA growth in FY27. We've delivered on a set of results which are in line with our guidance.

We've proven our operating leverage over many years now, and have delivered that again this year with deliberate and well-flagged investments in growth. We convert every dollar of EBITDA to cash, and we've increased our total dividends for the year.

All up, we score extremely highly on that balanced scorecard of the growth and margins, which is Rule of 40 metric. On that note, I'll pause and hand back to Matt.

Matt Heine

Thanks, Hayden. To avoid reiterating or going over what Hayden so succinctly just went over then, from an outlook perspective, I would just reiterate that we remain extremely excited about the opportunity ahead of us, and also, more importantly, the structural growth tailwinds that sit behind us.

There is huge opportunity in the market, and I believe we've done a great job executing on the strategy to make sure that we maximize our growth in those areas. There's numerous proof points now that we can point to around where the investments that we've made is actually delivering results.

We're also continuing to invest into the growth, and we believe there's many opportunities to not only drive significant efficiency for ourselves and for our advisers, but also to bring exciting new products, which will differentiate us in the market to our peer group. Finally, on page 35, we reiterate our FY27 guidance, that is net flows or FUA net flows of $18 to $20 billion, an EBITDA margin excluding any First Guardian and RISE expenses of approximately 47%, and capitalized software investment of approximately $17 million.

Our FY30 DX30 strategy continues to excite us and the team. Just to finish on that, we do believe we can double the FUA on the platform in the coming 4 years, and over those 4 years, return operating EBITDA margins towards 50%.

On that, we will stop and take any questions from those listening. Thanks very much for listening.

Operator

Thank you. If you wish to ask a question, please press *1 on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced.

If you wish to cancel your request, please press *2. If you are on a speakerphone, please pick up the handset to ask your question.

Our first question comes from Elizabeth Miliatis?] with Macquarie.

Please proceed.

Elizabeth Miliatis

Good morning, and thank you for taking my questions. The first one's just on flows.

Obviously, you sort of included the flows year-to-date in the last 6 weeks or so. They do seem a little weaker than where we were last year, obviously the budget is still impacting things.

Do you have any strong view as to when this weakness will subside? Are there any green shoots?

What's your view longer term? Obviously, you've got those FY30 targets, hopefully a decent amount of conviction that things will come back pretty strongly.

Matt Heine

Yes, I think the first thing to comment on is that it is only 6 weeks into the year, and I think that is important to note. Excluding the large or the two institutional accounts, $2 billion is actually not a bad start, and we've just gone to pains again just to reiterate our FY guidance for $18 to $20 billion.

Timing is something that is, unfortunately, a little bit out of our control, but certainly we've got good line of sight of what's coming through, and we've still got confidence in that guidance. There's always going to be things going on in the market, but I think it was Warren Buffett once upon a time said, "It's important to look at the climate, not the weather."

From time to time, you will get accelerated transitions and some that are delayed as well as new business. We remain confident in the flow outlook.

Hayden Stockdale

To add to that, Liz, I'm not overly disappointed by the number at all. Halfway through the quarter, you double two and make it four.

You think of the guidance, the guidance is averaging 4.5 to 5 billion a quarter. You wouldn't expect us, going from 15.5 to 18 to 20, to be doing five from the get-go.

The number that we've achieved here, I think, is actually quite reasonable and fits in line with the guidance for the full year.

Elizabeth Miliatis

Got it. Thank you.

Then maybe second one from me, obviously you gave us that update about a month or so ago on Morgan Stanley and signing that contract. Just curious as to how that's progressing.

Are we starting to see any flow benefit from that? Then also maybe with regards to the longer-term targets for FUA and flows, how much of that captures Morgan Stanley roughly?

Thank you.

Matt Heine

Yes, thanks. I'm not going to get into the habit of commenting necessarily on individual customers, but whether we have called this one out, what I would say in the first 6 weeks of the year, there would be probably a handful of accounts that have come across, but obviously we expect that to ramp up as we sort of work with them and local advisers move across.

Equally, moving forward, it is worth noting we've got a lot of very significant accounts across all of the segments. We're working really well with the aggregators, as well as now the broking community, and the pipeline remains very full.

Elizabeth Miliatis

Okay. Thank you.

Operator

Our next question is from Blake [Dowsett?] with [Darden Group?]

. Please proceed.

Blake Dowsett

Hi, guys. Thanks for taking my call.

I just had a couple of questions on the Morgan Stanley flows. Just, I know it's a little bit out of your hands, but just trying to understand how the cadence can look throughout the year.

Appreciate that you gave us a little color on that beforehand, but just helping from a forecasting point of view, do we expect this to be back-loaded or front-loaded in terms of how the MS is going to drop through?

Matt Heine

Yes, again, probably won't comment longer term on individual customer flows, but we would expect to see that coming through each quarter.

Blake Dowsett

Starting

Matt Heine

to come through. There's ramp-ups with all of these things.

Blake Dowsett

Exactly.

Matt Heine

Just— Non-zero today's.

Blake Dowsett

Correct. Just thinking about that client, or more generally just on the broker-dealer channel, if you don't want to talk specifically about an individual client, I'm just trying to understand the revenue margin of that broker-dealer channel in relation to the revenue margin of the existing custody book of business, whether we should be expecting any impact to that as it flows through the year.

Matt Heine

Yes, the pieces are great opportunities. It's exactly the same margins as our broader book.

Moving forward, there's a range of different business models that will have different margins attached to them. I know that doesn't necessarily answer your question, but there'll be some groups where they will be looking for a reporting-only service, there'll be some groups where they're looking for actually an integrated trading solution, and each of those different models will have slightly different sorts of revenue models.

Best to, what I would say, they're not undertaking reporting-only, any sort of broking opportunity will be standard margin plus the incremental benefit of any individual HIN reporting that we provide them. It should be an incremental play in the majority of cases.

Hayden Stockdale

What I'd say to that, Blake, is I'd just be cautious around the revenue margin as a metric. It is an output metric, it's not an input metric.

Directionally, whether it goes up or down is not necessarily a positive or negative sign. As I've said, the bellwether for us is more revenue per account, and we are expecting that revenue per account number to continue its trend, which is upwards.

Matt Heine

Really pleased with where they're sitting. It's a great revenue number per account.

Hayden Stockdale

Yeah. That's the important metric.

Blake Dowsett

Understood. I think I'll take it offline to get a little bit more color.

Thank you. Appreciate your time.

Hayden Stockdale

Thanks, Blake.

Operator

As a reminder, just *1 on your telephone keypad if you would like to ask a question, and please limit to two questions. Our next question is from Nick McGarrigle?]

with Barrenjoey. Please proceed.

Nick McGarrigle

Hi, team. Just another one on the flows.

Can you talk through what you're seeing on the ground in terms of the gross flows? Are gross flows still running at a decent pace compared to last year?

We're seeing some of the IDPS larger accounts parking money off-platform as they await more clarity around tax and investment strategy?

Hayden Stockdale

I think that's a fair characterization, Nick. There's still a little bit of choppiness around some of the outflows, and we do believe there's a range of positioning that sort of sits behind that.

Sometimes these are seasonal, so, pre-30 June, you get a little bit of tax positioning and the like. We have, in the fourth quarter as well as continued scene, we've called it out with a couple of large institutional outflows in the quarter.

A little bit of that choppiness. Now, we are, I think, also expecting the ball's bounced our way a little bit more than it's bounced against our way over the last 6 weeks or quarter or so.

I think, yeah, that's a fair characterization.

Matt Heine

I think the increase in gross flows is a, I guess, an indicator of growing support. Yes, gross flows continue to grow.

Nick McGarrigle

Okay. I assume just to dig into the guidance, the $18 to $20 billion, the current annualization, and it's always dangerous annualizing 7 weeks, but that gets you to kind of $14 billion.

Is it fair to say that you're assuming something in the range of $5 billion from Morgan Stanley over the year that bridges that difference between kind of the annualization of where we are now and the 18 to 20 guidance?

Hayden Stockdale

I know everyone's desperate for the answer to that, but I won't answer that, Nick.

Nick McGarrigle

Okay. Does that count as my question?

Because it was a brief answer.

Hayden Stockdale

You can have another one. I think you knew what the answer to that was going to be.

Nick McGarrigle

All right, good. Maybe just to dive into the EBITDA margins, and obviously you went into detail maybe some of the deliverables that you're expecting to get with the incremental EBITDA margin investment that you've made in the business over the last 2 years.

What do you think, coming into '28 and '29, you'll have to kind of show for that, and then how that then delivers a trajectory back to 50?

Hayden Stockdale

Absolutely. Look, and there's a big revenue effect here, right?

We have circa 2% market share, circa 50% margins, and circa 20% growth. When you look at that, we should absolutely be optimizing for growth, and that's what we're doing within reason.

Hence the strategy of putting some more funds into product and tech, and also sales and marketing to drive that. We are expecting very strong returns on that investment.

In the world of software, it can be very hard to attribute revenue to particular investments. When we can do that, and we actually took a look at what the ROI are, they're extremely attractive.

You're talking typically sort of more than 100%. The beauty is that the payback period is typically 2 to 3 years, right?

Which means you do get a little bit of compression, particularly in year one. Then, yeah, fairly quickly, the revenue starts to land, and then dilutes the impact of the expenses on the product and tech.

Look, we're not giving a trajectory as to what those margins will look like, other than to say what was previously guided, which is trend back towards 50% over that sort of 4-year time frame.

Matt Heine

We've given a lot of data points there as far as what we're looking to achieve, and there's a whole range of things that we're investing into. Touching on all of them, but reporting, continuing to enhance that, that's sophistication, mobile and mobile connectivity, the ecosystem, in and private, there's plenty of things that we're investing into that we know are going to keep driving adoption and growth.

Nick McGarrigle

Cool. That'd be it.

Operator

Our next question is from Simon Fitzgerald with Jefferies. Please proceed.

Simon Fitzgerald

Hi there, Matt, Hayden. Thank you very much for taking my questions.

My first question relates a little bit more to the guidance around net inflows. I would have thought that the number of agreements or new financial intermediaries that you signed up in the fourth quarter of the year, I think it was 75 from memory was the number, that must be giving you a fair bit of confidence in meeting that 18 to 20 billion.

Also, I just wanted to know how many advisers that would cover.

Hayden Stockdale

The 75 is advisers, so that's individual reps.

Simon Fitzgerald

Yep. Okay.

All right, that's fair. Then just a second question relates a little bit—

Hayden Stockdale

I was going to say, Simon, to answer that, the first part of that question, yeah, that absolutely does give us confidence. As I've said, I think in my narrative, too, the fact that they came in in the third and fourth quarter means that they're not fully run-rated.

Yes, that is a fair point. Still's

Simon Fitzgerald

a big number, isn't it, 75 compared to prior history for a quarter only?

Hayden Stockdale

It's a very good number. It's a good number, yeah.

Simon Fitzgerald

The

Hayden Stockdale

only thing is one adviser's not the same as another adviser necessarily, too, right? It's actually the capability of these individuals.

We are encouraged by the level of flows that we've got from the intermediaries in the fourth quarter.

Matt Heine

Just to reiterate, as you'd probably expect, if we're going to provide this to the market, we do build that up and look at it through many different dimensions to make sure that it is an accurate reflection of what we're going to achieve. We build up from opportunity pipelines, new advisers, organic flows, and the installed base.

It's absolutely one of the metrics that we look at, and which gives us confidence.

Simon Fitzgerald

Very good. Then just another question following on from the previous ones in terms of returns and things like that on the various projects that you have in the sort of development phase.

I'm curious in terms of how you pick these projects. I imagine there's a number of them that compete, and given I think they're more so designed or aimed at winning, where do a lot of these sort of ideas come up from?

Is it from the existing base, or is it when you've missed out on a new mandate or something like that, that you sort of get the idea that we need to do this or do that? I'd just be curious to know in terms of how they come up, and how you also filter in terms of which ones you sort of give the nod to and which ones you might reject.

Matt Heine

That's a pretty big question. It could take a while to answer, but something I learned many years ago was that our business, like many businesses, our ambition is always bigger than our budget, there's never a shortage of items to debate and argue about when it comes to prioritization.

It is, I think like every business, one of the hardest parts of business is making sure that you're working on the right things at the right time. We, a number of years ago, which we've talked about, moved to what they call a product operating model, and that was a very deliberate move to make sure that our team, particularly the product and tech team, are getting lots of exposure to all of our customers.

The way that we're organized around feature sets means that they're in active dialogue with a very broad set of customers, digging deep into what the problems are that we're trying to solve, and how we're going to best solve them. Sometimes it's an efficiency item, one of the areas that we're working on, for example, is fees.

Again, won't go into too much detail, but the way that advisers generate fee renewals and fee consent forms, we're building out a new solution which will be incredibly efficient and effective for the adviser, and at the same time will drive very significant efficiencies for our back office. Clearly, that's going to be important as we scale and move towards our DX30 strategy.

Often it's around efficiency and capability, what we hear from the market. There's always an element of are our competitors doing something interesting.

Then, you also take strategic bets, and individual HIN is one of those strategic bets where we just see huge opportunity. We've always had core capability in that area, and now is a good time to invest into it.

It's no different to 15 years ago when we decided to make a bet on the high net worth private wealth part of the market, invested heavily into the off-platform capability and reporting, and as a result, that was extremely successful. It's a great process.

Not everyone's always happy, but I think we've got a pretty solid list of things that we're working on and a very big team to execute on

Simon Fitzgerald

it. Very good.

Thank you, Matt.

Operator

Our next question is from Tharan Jeyathasan?] with J.P.

Morgan. You may begin.

Tharan Jeyathasan

Morning, gentlemen. Thank you for taking my questions.

Perhaps a first question just back again on flows. Just interested on how we should be thinking about the 18 to 20 billion range you've provided.

I think even at the lower end, there's quite a lot of growth there. Is it fair to say that you're assuming a hockey-stick-style recovery from the post-budget slowdown?

I think it's important to understand given that there is a lot of growth there and near-term trends have been quite weak and also different to your peer's guidance. Any color you can provide on your assumptions would be helpful.

Thank you.

Matt Heine

Again, I don't think it's a hockey-stick recovery. We're only 6 weeks into the year.

We've had some very successful large wins of late, and a great pipeline with a very broad investor base. I think, clearly, things are going to have to increase from here to hit the guidance number, but, yeah, definitely don't think it's going to be sort of a total back-end hockey-stick play.

Yeah.

Tharan Jeyathasan

Is it the post-budget kind of recovery that you're kind of banking on? Or would you say perhaps just talking to the midpoint, and I know you're not speaking to any specific clients, but just want to understand the assumptions in terms of contribution from MS Wealth at the lower end of guidance versus recovery from the current environment, and just any comments you can provide.

Matt Heine

Probably the reason for putting a range of 18 to 20 is that we're still call it 11 months away from the end of the year, and to be able to pinpoint exactly where we're going to land with as much science as we've put into it is difficult. We just want to make sure that we're giving the market a sensible range that we think is achievable.

Anything can happen between now and then, but there's a lot of very strong support from our existing base, as well as new opportunities and recent wins.

Hayden Stockdale

I think, Thean, from your perspective, it's probably easy to see this from top down. The way that we actually pull this together is more bottom up.

Matt Heine

Yeah.

Hayden Stockdale

When we look across the relationships we have, the relationships that we're seeking to build, it gives us confidence around that number.

Tharan Jeyathasan

Okay. No, that's clear.

Thank you. Just maybe a follow-up on the MS Wealth partnership.

Just interested in the process there. I think you had mentioned before there would need to be new SOAs signed and things like that.

Just what else is required there and how you're thinking about the timing? Is it fair to say that early flows will be non-custody fee-based as opposed to custody, which, the custody being the opportunity to follow?

Is that the right way to think about it?

Matt Heine

I think it's probably getting into a little bit too much detail. It is, for all intents and purposes, a transition of a client, and all the normal things apply.

Tharan Jeyathasan

Okay. Understood.

Maybe just the last question around how you're thinking about your margin guidance for FY27. There's obviously a level of expense growth assumed within that.

Interested to get your thoughts on how much flex you have in that expense growth assumption, particularly if FUA were to come in below expectations given the uncertainty that we're seeing. Basically, are you managing to your margin guidance or is it the other way around?

Hayden Stockdale

We are targeting margin, and we have a lot of flex in our ability to manage to that. The vast bulk of the investment is in product and tech.

We use a range of internal and external spend for that, and we cadence it through the year. Ultimately, it is discretionary, right?

This is not of a fixed or variable nature where we have to spend it. We do want to spend it, because we see benefit in doing so.

Tharan Jeyathasan

Okay. That's clear.

Thank you.

Operator

Our next question is from Lafitani Sotiriou?] with MST Financial.

Please proceed. Oh,

Lafitani Sotiriou

good morning, and thank you for the opportunity to ask a couple questions. I wouldn't mind digging into two buckets.

It's areas you're moving into. It's interesting to see industry super high balances on the mapping and some targeting of it.

Can you give us some specifics as to how you are actually going about that? Typically, where the platform space has been, you're competing with other platforms and share of wallet from advisers.

Can you talk to any specific strategies or approach on how you think you can better break into the high balances in industry super?

Matt Heine

Absolutely. It's a great question.

We're certainly seeing good flows from industry funds at the moment, and I often say, and I'll just repeat again, this is not us entering into a super war, despite what the press would like to run as headlines. The reality is that there is a very large cohort of Australians in small industry fund balances, and whilst we've certainly got products including our core product that compete head-to-head from a pricing perspective with industry funds for those smaller balances, our real focus is that affluent advice, and that's clients that have got more than $500,000 in their super balances, where we believe that they need more than just guidance, advice, or advice from a new class of adviser, as an example.

They'll typically have debt, insurance needs, they may have assets outside of their super, and are looking for holistic wealth solutions. The numbers are pretty remarkable, as you would have seen on that chart.

Accounts being over $500,000 accounts for about $600 billion currently within industry funds. Our understanding is that over the next 4 years, that $600 billion is actually going to grow to $1 trillion, very significant volume and a darwinian respect.

The strategy really is around advice, though. We're there to support advisers, and a lot of the case study and some of the work that we're doing is around that efficiency piece that I touched on at the start, which is how do we help advisers service more than their current customer base?

Based on our unified data, actually, the average number of customers per adviser is currently sitting at 123. There is circa 3.5 to 5 million Australians that will be retiring over the next 5 to 10 years, and only circa 10 to 12,000 advisers to service them.

This efficiency piece, and this road to 200 or this road to 300, is really important. We're not the only one investing in trying to solve this problem, but it is about helping advisers service more customers if they want to, which many do, but without degrading the quality of advice and without degrading the quality of service.

It is things like self-service, it's about automation of advice, it's about easier access to information, there's a whole range of areas across an advice firm, which is what we call jobs to be done, where we think we can actually add value and help drive that efficiency to get our share of those complex advice clients.

Lafitani Sotiriou

Got it. Just moving on to that servicing more underlying clients, and if you are to move towards 200, and you've sort of flagged some stuff on slide 19 and beyond around building more advice tools.

Can you talk us through how we should think about how far you are looking to expand into features to gain those efficiencies? For example, whether it's Xplan or Zero or other feature sets that maybe are done externally, are you looking at creating an Xplan light, for example, so that advisers don't need to move as much off-platform?

How many of these tools that you are looking to build, will there be revenue associated?

Matt Heine

Again, it's a fairly large question. The advice ecosystem is pretty big.

The average number of software solutions in an advice firm is 14. It continues to increase.

We've been very disciplined in looking at all of those jobs that need to be done across an advice firm, and being quite deliberate where we think it makes sense for us to play. As an example, record of advice solution, which we're sort of uplifting, it makes sense because often it's investment-related or it might be withdrawal-related.

To have that integrated into an adviser's workflow for the part that they're doing a transaction makes good sense. With Unified, we'll continue to integrate that through the reporting, but it also allows you to expand the range of solutions that we can offer through the client portal, for example.

Do we want to go into full-blown Xplan territory, which is a huge product? No.

Are there parts of it like file noting and other areas where we can probably make a lot of sense? Yes.

Then there's other areas which generative AI are making possible, such as SOAs, et cetera, that whilst we're not committing to it, we're certainly quite interested in understanding and exploring further. The last thing is that— Does that have revenue attached to it?

Do they have revenue attached to it? Look, I think, ideally things that we do, we try and attach revenue to.

We're big believers in user pays. Sometimes that works, sometimes it doesn't.

Certainly, if we think that we're delivering enough value, then it should be revenue-accretive. Is it going to massively move the dial?

Probably not.

Hayden Stockdale

Let me answer that slightly differently. Whether it's direct or indirect revenue, the answer is yes.

Matt Heine

Yeah. I think what Hayden means is that we've got a vested interest in making this work, because if we can help our advisers double the number of clients, our business doubles as well.

Hayden Stockdale

Yeah.

Matt Heine

That might be the indirect one.

Hayden Stockdale

Yeah.

Lafitani Sotiriou

Thank you.

Operator

Our next question is from Anthony Hoo from Ord Minnett. Please proceed.

Anthony Hoo

Good morning. Thank you.

Just a couple of questions. First one, just on costs, picking up on an earlier question.

As you look into FY27, you said there's quite a bit of discretion around how much you spend, but interested in the profile of that spend. Are there sort of large significant projects involved in that where there's an extended timeline or a profile of that beyond FY27 that might extend to '28, '29?

Just interested in what the profile looks like, not just '27, but also '28, '29.

Hayden Stockdale

Look, Anthony, we haven't given specific guidance out into '28 and '29, and I'd hesitate to even comment on it, because we haven't gone through a board approval process to even contemplate what our budgets might be for those years. Other than having an idea of what our product roadmap looks like over a multi-year time frame, and the type of investment that we've managed to likely undertake.

As with anything in product and tech, it is discretionary. If you ever see a software company turn off its investment in product and tech and go for high margins over high growth, that's a good sign, right?

I think we're effectively the opposite of that. We have a very healthy pipeline of opportunities with very attractive returns that flow out of them.

It is multi-year. We are also very respectful of delivering to the market what's happened that is acceptable, and we believe the margin profile that we've outlined, of 47% this year, trending towards 50% over time, is a bit of a balance.

Anthony Hoo

Yeah. Great.

Thank you. Second question, just on your FY29 ambition to double, also FY30 ambition to double your FUA, can you talk a little bit around the revenue margin that you're contemplating in that?

There's been a bit of talk, bit of discussion around the impact of your growth in the high net worth segment and ultra high net worth segment, but just some broad thoughts around the revenue margin as you look for over the next 4 years.

Hayden Stockdale

That's a hard one to answer, Anthony. The guidance we have is for doubling FUA.

Obviously, that does not imply a doubling of revenue, but we haven't put out any guidance as to what that revenue growth might be. I can't really comment further on that.

We've guided to margin. We've also said that it will move back towards 50, we probably can't provide any more than that.

Anthony Hoo

Okay. All right, thank you.

Operator

We have reached the end of our question-and-answer session. I will now hand the call back over to Mr.

Heine for closing remarks.

Matt Heine

Thanks, everyone. Fantastic questions following the presentation, and look forward to discussing further with you in the coming weeks or months.

Appreciate you all dialing in.

Hayden Stockdale

Thanks, all.

Operator

Thank you. That does conclude our conference for today.

Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.