Thank you so much, Michelle, ma'am. Good afternoon and thank you everyone for joining the earnings conference call for quarter ended 30th June 2026.

We have today with us the Group CFO, Mr. Jugal Mantri, the CFO of ARWL, Mr.

Rajesh [Survethra?] , and our Head Investor Relations, Mr.

Vishal Sanghavi. As we have always shared with you, we remain committed to delivering consistent profit growth.

I am pleased to report that we have delivered another quarter of consistent performance, which is our 19th quarterly result. I would like to sincerely thank our clients, employees, and all our stakeholders for their continued trust and support.

Despite the volatility which you all are aware of, in the Q1 FY 2027, our uncomplicated business model and unwavering focus on client outcomes helped us deliver consistent, market-agnostic growth. This once again demonstrates the strength and resilience and the scalability of our business.

The mean YoY growth of our last 17 quarters, skipping the first two because there was a COVID base, profit has been growing, has grown at a mean median of 31.7% YoY and a mean of mean was 31.7% and median was 33.1%. Seldom do listed companies measure the consistency of the earnings, and the standard deviation of these 17 numbers, which are YoY PAT growths declared for the last 17 quarters, the standard deviation was 4.8%, reflecting the consistency of our performance mathematically rather than in English.

Total AUM grew by 21% YoY to ₹1,06,300 crores as on June 30th 2026, supported by the net flows of ₹2,743 crores for the quarter, despite high volatility. Equity capital markets reflects our clients' continued confidence in our business model.

This quarter, we had ₹1,900 crores of net sales in equity mutual funds alone. In our flagship business, in the last 12 months, we have added 1,600-plus new client families on a net basis, bringing our total number to close to 14,000, to be precise 13,941.

Client attrition rate in terms of AUM lost for Q1 FY 2027 was .09%. We love to see this number second decimal, but yeah, would love to see it zero in fact, underscoring the strength of our client-centric uncomplicated approach.

Zero regret RM attrition for the quarter is another highlight. Now, I will hand over the conference to our Group CFO, Mr.

Jugal Mantri, to give you all the updates of the subsidiary companies and the consolidated financial performance of the company. Jugal sir, can I hand this over to you?

Thanks, Feroze bhai. Thanks, Michelle.

Good afternoon everyone. Let me first talk about our other businesses in subsidiaries.

Digital wealth business, which is B2B2C business, registered AUM growth of 23% year-on-year to ₹2,526 crores and number of clients increased by 16% to 7,320. OFA business, which is a SaaS platform, has 6,890 subscribers with platform assets of ₹1.66 lakh crores for the quarter ended 30th June 2026.

We have also started operations in UK and very soon you all will see this business flowing from there and start contributing. Now let me give you all brief about Q1 FY 2027 consolidated financial performance.

Excluding fair value gains on investments, ESOP expenses, and related tax effects, our consolidated total revenue for the Q1 FY 2027 stood at ₹336 crores compared to ₹284 crores for Q1 FY 2026, registering an 18% YoY growth. Profit after tax stood at ₹116 crores, showing a 24% YoY growth compared to ₹94 crores in Q1 FY 2026.

Profit after tax margin is higher at 34.4% for Q1 FY 2027 compared to 33% in Q1 FY 2026. During the first quarter of FY 2027, we have achieved 24% of full year revenue guidance of ₹1,415 crores and 25% of its full year PAT guidance of ₹460 crores.

Given the strong business we have built and the opportunities ahead, we remain confident of achieving our guidance. Reported numbers including fair value gains on investments, ESOP expenses, and the related combined tax effects, total revenue for Q1 FY 2027 stood at ₹430 crores and PAT at ₹163 crores.

That's all on the financial numbers. Now we can start question and answer session.

Over to you, Ms. Michelle.

Good afternoon, sir. My first question is that we are expecting platinum families to grow from 211 to about 450 to 500 over two years.

I wanted to ask what is the Q1 update on that number and how much is the contribution from them? My second question is that clients from less than 5 crore bracket upgrades them to themselves to 50 crore bracket.

Wanted to understand at what rate does that happen? Every year how much of the first bucket upgrades to the second bucket?

Didn't get your second question, Shubhi, if you can repeat that to me? Sir,

yeah, sir. Basically clients from less than 5 crores bracket upgrades themselves to 50 crores bracket, which is our target market.

Wanted to understand that at what rate does that happen, every year how much of that first bucket gets transferred to the or upgrades themselves to the second bucket?

Right. See, the first question is what's the update on the platinum clients.

I think platinum clients would be about 230 now approximately from 211. Since this is a segment which we have launched just about two and a half years back, when we actually launched this segment, we had about 40, 45 clients only.

If you ask me whether we will get to that 400, 500 number sooner than later, of course. The second question automatically is the next question of the first question or subset to the first question, how many people upgrade.

5 to 50 is a large segment, we are actually now also trying to segment our clients into gold and platinum. These will be the only two segments we wish currently to have.

I think the upgrade rates would be something like a few a quarter, 10, 15, 20 a quarter, that would be my guess. Because we generally believe in not going to people, quite a few wealth management outfits figure out who's gotten into money by a transaction, large real estate transactions or large private equity transactions.

If people come into money, a few hundred crores, most wealth management outfits reach there and try and get a share out of that. We believe in growing our clients internally.

I think there'll be a hockey stick kind of a count increase, in the last two years it went up from 45, 50 to 230. I wouldn't be surprised that you would see it in four digits in few years.

Sir. Just one more question.

Sir, AUM per RM has been increasing. I think it was ₹230 crores per RM and now it's been increasing.

Is there a cap on that or how do we see that progress? See,

there's no cap in terms of the amount of money. Of course, there are relationship managers who have spent about 15, 18 years with our company.

Most of them could be at 500, 800, 1,000, 1,500 crores also if somebody has created a business for about a couple of decades. This business is about mass and time, not about speed.

That's what we've been saying. Rolling stone gathers no mass in this business.

Anybody who changes companies in this business has, if you look at data, anybody who changes more than three companies, the guy leaves the wealth management industry before he retires. Coming back, is there a cap on the AUM?

The answer is no. Should that number go up?

The answer is yes. When we got listed, if I'm not wrong, that's when we had got to ₹100 crore per relationship manager.

Now we have had more relationship managers and we have more AUM per RM. Since this business, the key crux is what's your client attrition, what's your RM attrition.

If your client attrition is .09, it is but obvious that this number will keep going up. For quite a few companies, AUM per RM can come down, then you'd automatically it is and it's a cause and effect, you'll automatically work backwards to check what is the client attrition.

You will see in a few percentage, 4%, 5%, 7%, 10% also in some so many wealth management outfits. Will this number grow?

The answer is yes. Is this number will it plateau somewhere?

I guess no. Because this is a self-fulfilling prophecy, because if a client, for example, I'm a relationship manager, in fact most of our leaders, we have got 86 team leaders and 19 unit heads, all of them are relationship managers first.

Rakesh sir also manages clients, I manage clients. I think yeah, few thousand crores could be an easy number per RM.

We've achieved that in a few cases, depending on how long a person has spent in the company.

Thank you so much, sir. This was very helpful.

Thank you.

Yeah. I had two questions.

First is in such a bad market like we had from April to June, how do we actually manage our asset allocation during such high volatile markets? Second is why, I think you as a house are having a call that we will not invest in gold.

Sir, wouldn't it be fair that many of the people have invested in multi-asset funds and maybe sold out in the last quarter and entered small caps? I wanted to understand this, how is it actively managed?

See, Jignesh sir, we see, of course asset allocation, if your overall risk is high in the portfolio, we measure it in the form of beta, of course most of people on the call would know, matlab they are from financial services industry because we have a lot of analysts, beta is a risk measure, basically trying to risk evaluate the risk relative to a certain index. If my beta is very high, then I need to do active management.

Let's assume if a treasury is there, he's got some portion of his money with 2 beta, then he needs to go in and come out of the market. We operate highest beta portfolio is .6.65.

That means you're taking lower risk than Nifty mathematically, not in perception. In mathematics you're taking lower risk than Nifty, you don't need too much dynamism.

That's point one. Point two, you're not buying the riskiest asset in equity.

I buy mutual funds currently, because that's the most tax-efficient platform and mathematically if somebody were to, without being too biased, if he tries to create a diversified portfolio, mutual fund becomes the best platform for a diversified portfolio. I'm already have a vehicle which is the lowest risk.

If I was recommending stocks for example, those are high beta in the equity portion. Low beta overall portfolio and conservative equity allocation and structured products makes my overall portfolio a low beta portfolio, hence active management on asset allocation becomes lower of the need.

Then coming to gold, if we have this principle, very important principle and that's the foundation stone on which our cultural or a professional fabric is at least laid out is we buy we sell what we buy, rather than sell what sells. Gold already is 28% of India's household savings.

Out of the 1,600 lakh crores approximately, 28%, which is $4 trillion or 4 crore crores, is already there in gold in the form of 30,000 tonnes. If already we have so much gold, if wealth management outfit also start selling gold, then when equity mutual funds is 1.8% and I'm supposed to be selling equity mutual funds, if I start selling gold which is already 28% of Indian household savings, especially after the gold has gone up three times, that's the reason why we don't recommend gold.

Because India has enough of it, and it has doubled after 20 almost 15 years later, gold has got this rally above 2,000 going to 5,600, and people are still recommending gold in January when the gold had touched 5,500. That's why we don't recommend gold, because India has enough of real estate and gold.

Right. Out of your total portfolio allocations in mutual fund, all are purely into equity as of now?

No, it's not purely into equity. If I remember right, we had about ₹55,000 crores in equity, ₹4,500 crores in debt, and some structured products, and some raw material which gets aligned to the model portfolio over periods of time.

It's a combination of all, but largely mutual funds and structured products.

Okay. Right.

Thank you, sir. Thank you.

Yeah. Good afternoon, sir.

Thanks for the opportunity and congrats on good set of numbers. Sir, wanted to understand on this other income, the ₹110 crores that you have booked.

What is sitting in there?

So ₹110 crores of other income is basically mark-to-market gains of our holding. Jugal sir, you want to take that one?

Yes, Feroze bhai. Out of ₹110 crore rupees, ₹96 crore rupees that is mark-to-market gain in the holding of Anand Rathi Global Finance Limited, and rest is the normal other income, which is interest income on the surplus which we carry.

Sure, sir. Just on this NBFC revaluation that we have done, what is the thought process behind that?

How did we revalue it?

No, we don't revalue. We get it revalued from the third party.

Investment banker, he does the revaluation, and this has to be revalued after in every six months. This is obligatory on us to get the company revalued every six months, and we should incorporate that revaluation in either the increase or decrease in valuation whatever comes, we have to incorporate the same in our P&L account.

Sure, sir. Sir, what would be the primary and secondary issuances of MLDs this quarter?

See,

the primary issuances at the gross level in Q1 was about 8% higher compared to last year. It was to the group companies, it was ₹1,875 crores compared to 1,700 and ₹4 crores to the group companies, and ₹312 crores of the primary issuances of the third parties.

Total it was ₹2,187 crore compared to ₹1,704 crore in Q1 of FY 2025. On secondary, the number was ₹968 crores in Q1 FY 2027 compared to ₹755 crore in Q1 FY 2026.

Sure, sir. Thank you.

Okay? Thanks.

Yeah. Thank you so much.

I have a question for Feroze. I remember Feroze have once told that three of his RM had gone to competitors.

What is the retention of their assets? How do you retain their assets who switch to competitors?

Mr. Vikas, thank you so much for your question.

Yes, you remember right. I think in the last or the last to last earnings call or the December quarter ending, I had said that three of our colleagues went to a specific company, which so I have my colleague Vishal, Kulkesh kidhar hai?

Haan, Kulkesh. Haan.

We basically believe that when a person goes to a newer platform or another company change, if the company is Anand Rathi is a very process-driven company, client retention becomes a very important objective. That has been achieved in the form of if I'm not wrong, generally 70% to 80% of the assets at least get retained.

This specific company was wanting to hire people at very obscene salaries because they had raised some capital. That's why I might have mentioned that three people went there and that data, you have Kulkesh?

I'll give you the precise numbers. I think it'll be in the range of 80% retention.

Now when you look at retention, we don't add mark-to-market. We take the precise net flow of those specific clients who are mapped to that person on the date of resignation.

Okay.

Kulkesh, you have it? Just hand it.

You have another question,

Vikas? In the meantime Kulkesh can pull it up.

Yeah. How do you plan to de-risk your structured product business?

De-risk structured product business.

Basically, when you look at our recommendation to our clients, it's mutual funds and structured products. There are 20 different product lines are possible.

We believe opportunity is overrated, focus is underrated. This is what Rakesh sir has taught us, who's our CEO.

Don't have to give everything to the client. Structured product itself is a market risk reduction mechanism for us.

In that structured product, we sell Anand Rathi Global Finance structured products and third-party products. The proportion of Anand Rathi is greater and third party is lower, because we believe that lending money to somebody else, you have to be very, very careful of a credit risk not fructifying.

Anand Rathi Global Finance is a group company and that's why our comfort remains there. What you might see as a risk of concentration, for me it is a de-risking in itself, because we have already seen two structured product popular issuers in India almost went belly up, and one of them actually went belly up.

Having of course there when they went belly up, there were a lot of mutual funds conventional bonds which were there in the mutual funds portfolios of that specific AAA-rated so-called company. Coming back, structured product helps you de-risk the market and brings down the beta of one's portfolio, that's one.

Second, when you're speaking about concentration risk, concentration risk on ARGFL is because we believe that lending to certain corporate, you have to be very, very careful because credit risk can't fructify. What you see as risk is my de-risk.

Okay. Thank you so much.

Did that answer, Vikas sir? Now Kulkesh is ready with the numbers.

Three? Haan, teen log.

Haan, we One second, let me take Kulkesh's computer. The day when these three gentlemen resigned, incidentally all these three were from were men, ₹758 crores is what they had, net flow was ₹73 crores, correct?

₹2 crores in July. Now we have ₹685 crores of the ₹758 crores with us currently, 658.5.

This is as of June end, June end. One person could take away a little more, the other could take away a little less.

Basically 90% of it is retained approximately, without the market movement of course. Does it answer, Vikas sir, as precisely I could get?

This was a pretty good explanation, for sure. Yeah.

Thank you. Thank you so much.

Good afternoon. I would like to ask two questions.

My first question...

Yeah. Is this better now?

I have two questions. My first question is, as we already applied for mutual fund license, is there any plan to expand in other capital market businesses such as investment banking or others?

My second question is, can you explain your plan and views on the Liberalised Remittance Scheme?

Okay. Yes, we have just got a board consent approval to apply for an AMC license.

We believe that arming ourselves is very critical, because we have some aspirations, long-term aspirations for this business. Arming ourselves with all the ability is something which we see as our duty towards our shareholder.

Yes, that's a board consent to go and apply for the AMC license, one. Second, will we get into investment banking?

Of course, the Anand Rathi Group already has an investment banking wing. I guess you're asking me this question because quite a few wealth management outfits try to get their assets from investment banking transactions, like I just alluded to in the previous answer.

Sometimes people go after iske paas 500 crore rupya aaya, iske paas jao, sasta sundar tikau option do, client aa jayega. Those are we believe that is capital management, not wealth management.

By design, wealth management is intergenerational in our belief. We are trying to get that portion of the assets, ₹1,06,300 crores has been filtered to see a large portion of that is intergenerational wealth.

Investment banking for the world has a very large synergy with wealth management, but we believe that getting intergenerational wealth doesn't come from investment banking transactions. That's why, for example, I must tell you, Ms.

Singhania, that one of my friend works with a real estate firm, and he says that the promoter has got a few hundred crores, or a little over 1,000 crores for next five, six years, he can invest. I would say Anand Rathi Wealth Limited is not interested in five, six year money.

That's why no investment banking and of course, quite a few people have had a strategy to build it there, and there's nothing wrong with it or right with our strategy. We want to not focus on capital management, but in business management.

Wealth management business is more longer term and intergenerational wealth is what interests or appeals to us. Only AMC, no collateral other businesses like investment banking.

LRS, yes. Vishal Sanghavi sir is prompting me that I've skipped the LRS.

Again LRS, let me say what I just said, focus is underrated and opportunity is overrated. Everybody tells me there's so much opportunity of the LRS money.

Clients also need it. Maybe clients need it.

If 182 product people are trying to understand India and we are still somewhere we are scratching the surface, if I have to give global recommendation across so many markets, I will at least have to have 200 product people sitting somewhere in Singapore or Dubai. Making tie-ups is very easy.

A wealth management like ourselves can go to another private bank and tie up and refer our clients, but we have been told by our bosses, Mr. Rathi and Rakesh sir, that only speak in places where you understand second decimal.

Otherwise, miss the opportunity, you are better off doing that. You can't be everything to everyone for all portions of their money.

LRS is something which is currently far-fetched. Of course, it's a huge opportunity, but we are okay to miss it.

Okay. Thank you so much, Feroze.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Sir, two questions. Firstly, on the mutual fund business, we have been hearing that a lot of larger AMCs have said that due to the change in the TER expense ratios they have whatever the impact they have been passing on to the distributors.

Do are we experiencing any impact on our yield in the mutual fund desk? Sir, secondly, with respect to the RBI circular on the bank guarantees to the capital market entities, there is an expectation that the volumes on the exchange might go down, does it impact the does it have any kind of an impact on the derivative business represent NBFC are derivative desk?

Got it. Your voice was muffled, I attempted to hear you.

Correct me if I'm not understood your question correctly. The first one is AMCs are believed to transmit all the TER pressures to distributors.

Is that your first question, sir?

Yes, sir.

Yes. I think some degree of to and fro happens, but since we are now a seriously large distributor, it becomes difficult for them to also transmit all of it.

Whatever is rightfully ours, one, two bps I think I would have told you last time also, those get passed on. In this, now that you've brought me to the subject, I would like to highlight, in FY 2019-20, was it FY 2019-20, about six, seven years back, we out of the total net sale in India, Anand Rathi Wealth Limited was .18%.

Now, for this quarter is it, Vishal ji?

No, for full FY 2026.

For FY 2026, you'll be happy to know, if you're already a shareholder, that .18% market share on net flow has gone up to 2.47%, as highlighted in the presentation. Since we are a large distributor, we also have some bargaining power, is the point I'm making.

We might be the only wealth management, if one of the few wealth management outfits which participate our long positions of our clients only using a mutual fund. We don't recommend stocks, we don't recommend PMS, we don't recommend long-only AIF currently, if my clients need it, someday I might.

My other wealth management distributions will generally be having mutual fund as one of the products. Gives me that little extra, but 1, 2, 3 bps of transmission might happen here or there, I told last time also.

Trump decides my yield better more, because mark-to-market comes because of that sometimes if he's So 2, 3 bps is very little on a base of 1.09, if I remember right, post-GST, which is what I earn. Does it answer, sir, the first question?

Yes, sir.

Yes, sir.

With my bad memory, I've forgotten the second one, if you could just prompt me again.

Yes, sir, it's on the circular of the bank guarantee which RBI issued.

The RBI circular, I see that as a great circular. Because in India, because of GST and other things, quite a few times there is market inefficiency coming in.

Learned high-frequency trader or a derivative trader can In fact, in India you can see some on naked eye you can see arbitrage. Arbitrage is supposed to be identified by second decimal computer, sometimes when I see the terminal, I can see some arbitrage.

I'm very glad that some degree of volume of all these high-frequency traders will definitely get curtailed, and that makes transfer of wealth becomes a little more difficult. For example, let me give you this example.

on an earnings call I'm giving you this example. Nifty can be rolled over in a spread window.

The underlying constituents, there is no spread window for rolling it over. This is a huge arbitrage.

I'm sure jisko samajhna tha woh samajh gaya hoga in terms of what technicality I'm speaking about. If somebody wants to roll over their short or long position on Nifty, there is a spread window, but stocks which are the underlying 50 stocks of Nifty don't have a spread window.

Higher the restriction on high-frequency traders or learned people who actually operate their computers, supercomputers on Black-Scholes pricing model, the it had become really easy, RBI circular brings down this frothy volumes, which were the largest cause of wealth transfer between Indian retail and somebody who second decimal understands order second order Greeks of derivatives. I'm very happy about that.

Second, what will be the impact on us? Negligible or nil.

No, in fact positive impact, because if you see the last Tuesday, so many Tuesdays you see these one-minute candles with 100-point movement, that is largely because of high-frequency traders. Market volatility will become a little more soother on Tuesdays and Thursdays, is my assumption.

It's better, and I'm very happy for the country and its regulation. Right.

Thank you, sir.

Yes, good afternoon.

Yes, sir. Good

Am I audible?

Congratula My name is CA Sachin, not Akhil. What typing error, I don't know.

I am your sorry. I am your customer also, client since last 10 years, and I'm a practicing chartered accountant and independent director in few of the companies.

Congratulations to you all, sir, on such wonderful result. Would like to know only one small thing.

At this pace when you are reaching to a mutual fund industry, aapka AUM

mein jo

abhi share

bana hai 4% se 5%, aapka long-term aspiration kya rahega? Sachin sir, dhanyawad aapke prashna.

Akhil sir, very good Sachin. Mera naam Sachin hai, woh kya typing error hua I don't know, it was in a hurry or kuch.

Haan, samajh gaya. Sachin sir, thank you for your question and thank you to be our client for 10 years.

I'm extremely grateful, because entrusting hard-earned money is one of the best things you could do for us, and I'm

Also a shareholder in your company, haan? Client plus shareholder both.

Thank you, sir. Of course, shareholder bhi hain, hum bohot shukraguzar hain aapke ki aapne vishwas kiya.

Now coming to your question, sir. Hamara jo long-term target humne bola tha mutual fund industry mein, we were looking at about a 4% market share on the overall Category II.

AMFI jab apne assets ko declare karti hai, woh kayi saare kismo mein karti hai. Growth and equity-oriented scheme is called Category II.

Usme kitna AUM hai? 30 lakh kareeban hai.

Aaj 30 lakh kareeban hai, uski hamari market share aaj sirf

1.75% ya

1.5% ke kareeban hai. Usko 4% le jaane ki hamari chaa- cheshta hai.

Woh 4% le jaane ke liye humne kya kiya ki humne project kiya ki 10 saal baad mutual fund industry ki ye Category II kitni hogi? Toh 1.5 lakh crore tak pahunch sakti hai agar main aaj ki jo assets hain usko 10% pe grow kar doon aur net sale ko bhi 10% se grow kar doon, toh mutual fund ki ye Category II, if these two assumptions are right, 1.5 lakh crore pe ho sakti hai.

Toh uske 4% ke hisaab se 6 lakh crore Anand Rathi Wealth pahunchegi tab jaake woh chah poori hogi. Toh agar jab humne 4% ki indication ki toh ye humne aankde kiye the.

Abhi bhi ye chah rakhe hain. Toh is chah pe pahunchne ke liye mujhe apni assets ko 22%, 23% pe grow karna padega.

Usme se thoda return se aayega, thoda net sale se aayega. Aap dekhenge ki ₹1,900 crore humne June jaise quarter mein bhi equity mutual fund Category II mein laaye hain.

Toh humne jo indication di thi 4% ki, uspe kaayam hain abhi aur koshish poori hai aur uparwale ki daya rahegi toh hogi 8, 10 saal baad. Ek aur question main poochna chahunga, jaise aapne abhi bataya ki AMC ka license bhi lenge aur aapka khudka bhi mutual fund chalu karenge over a period of time.

Haan sir, abhi toh license liya, license lene ki board ne approve kari. Ab license lenge, toh is dekho kya hai ki agar hamare koi bhi sapne hon, agar shareholder ne jaise aap shareholder hain, hamare share leke baithe hain, long term ke liye agar leke baithe hon, toh bhai hume jo bhi hamari company ki kaabiliyate hain aur jo bhi vipataye aayengi usko traverse karne ke liye jo auzaar ki zaroorat padegi uski poori pushti karke tayyari karna hamara kartavya hai as So isiliye us raah mein hum apni armory ko tayyar kar rahe hain.

Isiliye UK ki jo subsidiary hai uska bhi vyapaar shuru ho chuka hai, point one, last quarter mein. Ek GIFT City ki license bhi le le rahe hain, le chuke hain.

Vishal

ji batayenge aapko ki matlab Vishal ji

kab tak? First stage ho chuka hai, second stage.

Ye hamari do companiya ho gayin aur ye AMC ki license ka board ka bhi yahi maanna tha ki ye karna zaroor chahiye. Aur ye jo hamari armory hai, tayyari karke rakhni bohot zyada zaroori hai.

Ye business mein utaar-chadhaav aate hain, bohot saari cheezein change bhi hoti hain, toh uski poori tayyari karna uparwale ki daya se ab tak ki jo bhi vipataye aayin, whatever wolves were knocking on our doors, we did our best as a professional duty. We want to make sure that we look at all half a percent risk, 1% risk and mitigate those as professional.

Thank you, sir. Sir,

Hi, sir. Thank you for the opportunity.

While our legacy business has been growing steadfastly and in a calibrated manner, I just wanted to understand, is there any sort of AUM figure that you all are aspiring to be in the next five, six years, which will be divided between the structured and the mutual fund business? A.

B, I also wanted to ask, that this has now become the norm that all large-scale distributors are going towards setting up their own mutual fund business and we understand, that this is ideally you get more control and the yields also, see an uptick. Is that with our line of thinking?

Third is the UK business, there's a huge NRI market there. Will yields be higher compared to India and how do you see that?

Thank you.

Yes, sir. That's a lot of questions, Priyank sir.

First is, yes, quite a few distributors might have done something like backward integration. You see the first slide in my presentation of the company, those are our learnings which we have learned the hard way.

We have published it for anybody who gets lured with the wealth management business. I had said, wealth management is optically very, very easy business from outside on Excel sheets and it is as difficult as it could get internally.

That's my judgment having spent a couple of decades in this industry. In that, you would see point number three, wealth management is a business of backward integration, not forward integration or simultaneous integration.

That's why, now that we have 18, 20 years of full-fledged distribution, having a backward integration made sense for us. That's why we are doing it, not because somebody else is doing.

There are some wealth management outfits which raise capital and start all businesses at once. All the best, but we think that it has to be backward integrated.

That's where it comes from. It's not from the herd mentality or a trend which might be there.

We really have some reasons, but we don't want that to be completely disclosed today. We have stronger reasons, we have a clear thought process, we have a lot of testing done in terms of doing that.

You would have seen, we have never attached any value to our subsidiaries of digital wealth, whereas in 2021 people could have sold anything on the basis of technology. Similarly, we would want to underplay it currently, but it is not stemming from who else did it, it is stemming from our own individual thought process and it is consistent with what is written in point number three of the first slide.

Then sir asked me what else question, Priyank? Sorry yaar, when I'm answering one, I forget the next one.

Sir, just wanted to understand any sort of specific AUM figure that you are aspiring to be four years from now, five years from now, that would give us some sort of visibility.

Yes, we have done projections for long periods of time, but how you should look at if you want to model. Once I think about four, five year quarters back somebody had asked me how we look at it internally, and actually shared the model also on the website, no?

You've not So basically, how we look at it is whatever assets we currently manage, ₹1,06,000 crores, markets can't be subdued forever. Last two years Nifty went on a negative slipped into a two-year negative return on 9th June of this year.

Nifty can't be negative eternally, okay? If you look at the past of, just before I come to my specific AUM, I'm just giving you some color which I had done a study, it was interesting for anybody who has some money in the Indian capital markets.

Anytime Nifty delivered two years negative return over the last 26 years, there are 50 observations out of the 291 with monthly shifts which gave a negative return for two years, the subsequent three years all those 50 observations were positive, and the worst return was 4.1, best return was 56.8, mean return was 21.6, and median return was 20.2. Having said which, if history has any merit, the probability that Nifty will deliver more than its historical median return of 11% is very high for the subsequent three years.

With our selection methodology, we have a lot of science for whatever it's worth, we have beaten Nifty by 4% compounded after what we've earned. Coming back, if you project our AUMs on the basis of 10% to 12% M2M with some degree of conservatism, and if you add ₹1,100, ₹1,200 crores of net sales which we intend to do per month for the next three years, and then you can grow the net sales also at the rate of 10%, 12%, you will be able to arrive at the exact AUM which we target.

Basically, a 20%, 25% AUM growth, a 10, 12 coming from mark-to-market and 10%, 12% coming from 1% per month of net sale coming from If my AUM is ₹1,06,000 crores, internally we discuss that we need to har ball pe ek single lena hai. ₹1,060 crores will be my implied net rolls net net sale target for that month.

That's how we look at it. 12% bhagwan denge aur hamari research team ki wajah se aayega, aur 1% single har mahine loonga, toh I will be at 20%, 25% AUM growth.

26% mein AUM becomes 10 times in 10 years, just for ease of mathematics I'm just saying. Does it answer, sir?

All right, sir. Just a short answer on the UK business, is that exciting?

Other yields better than the Indian business? How do you look at it?

Generally, yeah, it is exciting, but I have realized that we when we look at mathematics of a certain business, we'd like to be excited after some numbers trickle, because yeah, we are happy that we now have a UK subsidiary. Will we try and scale it up very soon?

We hire a lot of people? That's not our style.

We like to build it brick by brick, if somebody is not a shareholder for 10 years, 5 years, 7 years, he should not even worry about this subsidiary. As honest as I could be.

Sure, sir. Thank you.

Thanks.

Hello. Sir.

This is Vivek Patil here. My phone has an issue, I'm just calling from my wife's phone.

We are basically ARWL family now, and thank you for allowing us to be a part of your family. Once again, Feroze sir and ARWL team, congratulations on the stupendous success.

In fact, it's what as you are saying that is 31% year-over-year over the last 17 quarters, excepting that COVID part. At the same time, maintaining this particular or increasing this AUM to ₹1,06,000 crore.

With this actually, what's this is translating to something 25%, 30% 20%, 25% annual growth or whatever, if you consider all these other allow for certain relaxations here and there. With this increased AUM, how do you see that in the coming years, in the coming three, four years, if you are able to maintain this particular growth, the AUM and the growth, as well as this increase.

Of course, most of it is coming out of your increase in the performance, but as a and then it will come as increasing the AUM through new acquisitions, etc. With this, how do you see this growth being maintained and kept intact over the next three to four years?

Three to four years, I think the growth has to be a reasonable high probability retention, because what happens is, like we said, we're very passionate about how we manage as against how much we manage. If you look at the mark-to-market gain, which is easy for one to calculate backwardly, backward calculation, after we have listed, our clients have made ₹28,000, ₹30,000 crores of profit itself.

If you look at net sale, my AUM minus net sale will be my mark-to-market. My clients have made In a bad time, of course, any client who has joined us in the last two years has not made the expected return, because Nifty has delivered 3%, 2% depending on which particular period did he come in in 2024.

What I'm trying to get to is, this business inherently is a easy business if you don't have client attrition. If you do justice to one's money, the clients are going nowhere.

That's one. If and you should be very passionate about client's expectation should be lower than what you can deliver.

Coming back, can you grow this business for three, four, five years at 20%, 25%? In our judgment, yes.

That's the order I have from my boss, Mr. Rathi.

As a professional group, I'm speaking on behalf of all the 400-odd relationship managers and account managers, that we'll do our best. Now coming to where does this come from?

There are four mutually exclusive cylinders to fire. One is implied growth or an embedded growth of returns of clients.

When I look at my clients' portfolios who are long-term-ish clients, 15%, 16% has happened, even on the model portfolio level, even at delivery. That's the embedded growth in our business.

Then new clients of existing relationship managers. Today the number of relationship clients per RM is 33.

That means we already have plant and machinery to acquire to have 17 more clients into 400-odd, which is close to 6,500 new client families can be handled by the same colleague set of ours. That's called new client acquisition of existing capacity being utilized, capacity utilization.

Third cylinder is new relationship managers. We have 490 people trained.

It's easiest said, but thinking about it eight years back, hiring a youngster, giving him patience, teaching him, and then promoting him is one of the toughest tasks one could accomplish in reality. That is already people The next 100 set of RMs are being prepared or are 60% ripe, jaise aam hota hai na?

Aap rakhte hain palang ke neeche, woh aam pak rahe hain hamare. Toh woh promote honge.

Right? Then there'll be more plant and machinery for acquiring more clients.

Then the last one is existing clients. This ₹1,06,000 crores comes from 13,941 families, and we don't tell our clients to start big.

If anyone has dealt with us, we don't tell him, 'Sir, aapke paas 10 crore hai, 5 crore se kyun nahi start karte?' Most private bankers will tell you that put a gun on your head and say, 'Start with 4 crores, start with 5 crores.'

Till some time back, we were also ready to start with 50 lakhs for a person who has 10 crores. Because if I don't do lip service, he'll give me the money if I deserve it.

That was the secure place which Rakesh sir has suggested us to be. This ₹1,06,000 crores of 13,000 families, which we are in the process of measuring it accurately, you will at least have twice more than that outside.

That is called penetration. Capacity utilization, penetration, new RMs, and embedded growth, these four put together, 20% to 25% karna mehnat bohot lagegi.

Last quarter wasn't easy from a sentiment standpoint. Vipataye aayengi, but we will do our best.

Odds, if you ask me to put an odds, I would do 90%, 95% odds. Some odds have to be given to God's action.

Right. Thank you.

Thank you, sir.

Good luck.

Thank you so much, sir, to be a part of our family. I don't know as a client or a shareholder, but yeah, you are our family.

Thank you, sir.

Yeah. Thanks, everybody.

Thanks, Feroze, for this opportunity one more time. Feroze, just wanted to sound off some thoughts which are there.

I hope I'm audible.

Yes, Sunil sir.

Yeah. Hi.

Feroze, just now that we have a successful track record of more than decades-plus, how about taking this entire structured product thing to the global markets? We have some kind of a formula-based trading that we do in the structured products on our Nifty, etc.

Why not try this for various global indices? Now clearly there has to be some other party thing, here we have our sister concern who is giving us the other party side of the transaction as well.

What about targeting those global banks on this, the Citibank, the HSBC, the J.P. Morgans?

Over time, maybe not in one quarter, two quarter, but directionally try to replicate our entire model in the global market so that then the world of growth opens up for us. Just a thought.

Then, we can do it through the wealth platform that we have. We can have the AIF thing if you want to take some higher fees.

Now we are also getting the board approval for the mutual fund. Even in the mutual fund industry, as a differentiated product over a period of time where even if in the AMC business we are a late entrant, but that differentiation can really be a huge winner with time.

Just wanted to sound this, Feroze, and wanted to hear your thoughts on what I'm talking, if at all, you can just discuss this out with me, please.

Sure, Sunil sir. Your suggestions have always been thought-provoking.

One person who's consistently given us guidance on this earnings call, if not all the 19, you might have guided us in 10 of those. I'm very grateful, so as soon as I hear your shubh naam, I become a little more attentive.

I'm very grateful for that. Now coming to my reaction on as a company, can we look at structured products on other indices or in other denominations on Nifty as the index?

Definitely can be explored, especially when you have an NRI platform now in the form of a UK subsidiary, and we have a product which is in UK for tax efficiency for UK participants in India. We have made a fund of fund there, 11 schemes which are listed there, which is very tax-efficient.

Those clients need wealth structured products. Globally, structured products is very, very popular.

I am told that in Singapore 50% of one's HNI portfolio is structured products, because you are able to create a risk-return profile using a Black-Scholes pricing model precisely to the need of it. Coming back, should we explore that?

Yes, sir, we will definitely explore that. Has Mr.

Kalpesh Kuradia, who is the head of designing of structured products, who has been for 14 years, I'll ask him to come and see you and tell you that how he has taken some pricings on other indices. Because debt structured products have debt and derivative.

Higher the volatility, better it is for the structured product pricing. Global volatility today is 6%.

S&P 500's volatility for last calendar year is 6% greater than Nifty in spite of having 10 times more the number of stocks. People don't probably put the closing prices of Nifty and S&P on the same Excel sheet.

If you look at the standard deviation thrown up by Nifty is 6% lesser than that of S&P, if I'm not wrong, it was 13 and 19. What I'm trying to say is, with that kind of volatility on S&P 500, it's like a lottery for a person who is long gamma to hedge that.

Interest rates earlier in the global market were very low, the products you would design that would be more call buying than put selling, because the forward rates have also gone up there. You're absolutely right, volatility has gone up and interest rates are a good raw material for a good structured product pricing.

Has Kalpesh done a full-fledged job? The answer is no.

A couple of times he has shown me some pricings because we had a Dubai office. I will make sure that Kalpesh does some designing and deliberates internally, and also shows you if you are have any interest on that and then you might be able to give us some specific recos also, or guidance.

Yeah. Sure, Feroze.

That's the whole idea that we have done this for a long period of time as a company, we have grown, we have built a team. The third element of sustainable growth is that innovation part, and if we are able to do that, I think we still have a long, long way to go on the growth front.

Just wanted to share, and good to hear you, and I'll take this with Kalpesh offline as well to understand the things that are going on. Thanks, everybody in the Anand Rathi family for this call and having me on this session.

Thank you.

Thank you, sir. Aapke mooh mein ghee shakkar.

Thank you.

Good afternoon. Thank you very much, and congratulations on the entire team who could return make a return of 23.5% year-on-year basis on this quarter where everybody was struggling to meet just being neutral, leave alone growth.

Congratulation to your team. That's where Anand Rathi stands apart, making growth uncomplicated.

That's absolutely what you all stand for. I'm an investor and a shareholder of Anand Rathi right from the IPO, an investor for the last eight years.

Really appreciate your hard work and your vision and the mission of your organization, which has really returned a lot of good wealth to all your stakeholders and shareholders. Thank you.

Thank you, Arun sir. If I recognize you from your voice, Arun is a common name, sir.

Arun sir from Bangalore, right?

Chennai.

Chennai. Great.

I was in Abu Dhabi and I moved on to Chennai for my mother.

Got, yes. Yes, Arun sir.

Thank you to be our shareholder and client for so long. One thing I should, now that you give us a positive, such a positive comment almost at the fag end of the call, I must say that clients have been very, very patient during bad times, and they have also looked at supporting us by giving us fresh moneys.

We believe that when you get money at lows, which is very difficult, the sales cycles are larger, it takes difficult it's very difficult emotionally for Feroze to cut a cheque when the market is down and out. Rakesh sir has designed our minds to be long-term thinking is why I am able to take courage and I'm able to as a company transmit courage, but clients have given us more money, one.

Second, thanks to the mutual fund selection process out of the 924 schemes, choosing those 14 mathematically using all the science possible over the last 12, 13 years of evolution. We have our mutual fund head whom I have worked for 18 years, Shweta Rajani.

I'm always the person who who's the front of it, there are some heroes, unsung heroines who are there at the back. I'm not missing the opportunity to recognize Shweta Rajani, who has been doing mutual funds in my Macquarie and Religare avatar, I know her from 2008-09.

She's only looked at mutual funds, one of the biggest names in the mutual fund industry. She has chosen the schemes, and you'll be happy to know from 1st April to 30th April 1st April to 30th June, our model portfolio has beaten Nifty by about 6% if I'm not wrong.

All the 14 schemes have beaten Nifty. It seldom happens, I'm highlighting.

Always there'll be two, three laggards which will become better in the next quarter and so on and so forth. Thanks to clients and Shweta, our client outcomes have been very beautiful last quarter.

Nifty has done about 7%. Kitna diya Nifty ne average?

End to end, 7% Nifty gave, mutual fund portfolio 14 schemes has given 7% after our cost, more. Thanks to Shweta and clients.

Thank you, Arun sir, for such a positive comment. Made my weekend for sure.

Thank you. Take care.

I am very, very grateful for everyone's time. I know it's a Friday, and you have consistently supported us as a client, as a shareholder, as a person at the capital market.

We, as always, I would want to reassure that we stand by our indications and we will do our professional best to serve our clients first and then our shareholders. Look forward to the continued support which each of you have given us in the past 4.5 years and before.

Thank you.