Good afternoon, everyone. I would like to welcome Mr.

J. Laxman Rao, Chairman and Managing Director, and thank him for this opportunity.

I shall now hand over the call to him for the opening remarks. Over to you, sir.

Good afternoon, everybody. Thank you very much for participating in our quarterly and yearly ending results con-call.

I'm very happy to announce good results from Mold-Tek Packaging with all the units running with better capacity utilization than the past, and especially the consolidation of five units in Hyderabad into two units, that is Unit 1 and 10, has improved the overall performance and efficiencies and resulted in a better EBITDA margins. Going forward, and again one more notable thing in this quarter is the pharma packaging, it's grown by 37% over the Q4 of last year, and overall growth of the full year is more than 200%, giving us ability to look for higher numbers going forward.

We are also expanding our product range in pharma and have ideas to add some more lines of activity in pharma, which can take the Mold-Tek into a decent major player in that segment. Going forward, the paints business, especially in the paint side, has marked a double-digit growth this year.

That is one of the reasons for closing the year at around 13% sales growth, 13.4%. Though there is a disappointing trend in lubes segment, it was well offset by more than 15% growth in food and FMCG and Q-Packs 25% and of course, pharma 200% and overall resulting in a healthy 13.4% growth.

I would rather like to share more details across question and answers, and over to the operator to start the question-answer session.

Hi. Am I audible?

Yeah. Is it okay now?

Yeah. Thank you for the opportunity.

I have a question regarding the collaboration with Wyp. Was there any revenue contributions from this contract in Q4?

I already mentioned during my previous con-call that this is a long-term opportunity where we are working with Wyp on development of new set of products, especially closures for high-end chemicals and lubricants. Now the two out of three products they have given us the designs, two products pilot molds are ready.

These molds to become commercial and add revenues, it would certainly take two or three more quarters. The numbers will start adding probably towards the end of this financial year 26-27.

Wyp as of now is under developmental stage, but the products which we are coming out are two out of three are already successful in pilot trials and more and more visibility would only come after couple of quarters.

Okay. You gave us guidance of 55 to 60 crores in pharma for FY27.

Is this including this contract revenue or will it be incremental to this?

No. 55 crores is our target for the next financial year 26-27.

We hit 35, almost 34.4 crores for the current financial year. We have taken a 50% growth so to reach somewhere around close to between 50 and 55 crores for the pharma.

We are online with that, I hope.

Okay. Thank you.

That's all from my side.

Hi. Am I audible?

Yes.

Thank you for the opportunity, sir. Sir, could you break down the growth in the paint segment volumes with Grasim and without Grasim?

With Grasim and without Grasim, I don't have the figures readily available, but Grasim has contributed handsomely to the growth of paint because they've been the kind of new players and their numbers are expanding more rapidly. The volume also has shot up by more than 60% in ABG compared to the last year because this last year base was much smaller.

Currently, their numbers are improving month after month or quarter after quarter. They are contributing handsomely and they are in the top 10 customers for us.

Okay. Sir, a few quarters ago, there was a lot of competition coming in for Asian Paints.

We had some kind of weakness in volumes there. Has that stabilized?

Yes, yes. Rather we have a very healthy growth in this quarter.

We have more than 17% growth coming from Asian Paints in Q4 to Q4. That's a very healthy recovery for us from Asian Paints.

Okay. Okay.

Sir, could you also elaborate on why such a sharp decline in the lubricant segment? I'm not sure how that is vis-a-vis industry, but normally the industry growth tends to be between -2% to +2%.

This seems to be a sharper decline. Are we losing clients or market share there?

Yes, we lost a client BPCL towards the end of last financial year which used to contribute about a significant amount of sale. Due to tendering system and public sector, they go only by L1 basis, we couldn't match their pricing and we let it go.

One of the reasons why last four quarters we still have a loss in sale. Last year itself it was more than 14, 15 crores turnover that has come from BPCL.

That has gone off in this full year. That is one of the main reasons for the drop in lube sales.

Okay. Sir, capacity wise, how much additional capacity are we targeting for Grasim and in pharma as well, because we have some capacity capex planned in that segment?

Currently pharma is hardly about 1,500 tons and we are to still make new investments in that segment to take it up to 2,500 tons in this year. Grasim, already we have capacities created more than 12,000 tons, 5,000 at Panipat, 4,400 at Cheyyar, and about 2,500 at Mahad, that is through Satara.

Total 12,000 tons of capacity has been created, which is running around 65% utilization as of now, which was better than last year, which was in 50s. This is one of the reasons for better performance is those plants are running now at least around 60%, 65% range of capacity utilization.

As we go forward and as their demand also picks up, their plant capacity utilization will also improve there.

Okay. Sir, one month has already passed in first quarter and do you have any sense of how thin-wall sales could look like given what is the impact on ice cream sales?

Are you witnessing the growth this quarter?

I can't comment much about this quarter, but the April has been pretty strong and we have seen all around momentum in spite of the West Asia war, which has impacted the general sentiment. The consumption of such goods like ice creams or curds, they won't get impacted because they're not luxury goods.

Even in the case of paint, we see a strong momentum still continuing even in the month of April.

Okay. Okay.

Thank you so much. I'll come back in the queue.

Yeah.

[unclear]

Hello, am I audible now?

Yes, sir. Congratulations, Laxman sir, for great set of numbers.

My first question is related to understanding from when you're talking about the capacity expansion, from 63,000 MTPA currently, what are we looking at for next year because we're already reaching near to 70% capacity utilization now?

Oh yeah. Our capacity is 63,000 tons and utilization is hardly 43,000.

We have a long way to go to make use of this capacity. Some more machines which were ordered last year are on the way arriving in this year, because there'll be always some replacement of old machinery and also expanding marginally in especially units like Mysore and Satara where Mahad especially, these are areas of growth.

Pharma will continue to add machinery to meet the increasing demand for our products. These three areas, but we have a sharp lesser budget of capital investment in this current financial year, which was 140 crores 2 years ago for 2 consecutive years and 120 years in this financial year 25-26.

We hope to control this capex to 80, 85 crores in the next year, that is 26-27, as we will be going only for brownfield expansions now onwards.

Got it, got it. That will lead to almost 70,000 MTPA capacity by the end of FY27, is my assumption correct?

I think we should be close to 68, 67, because capacity-wise in pharma, the number of tons won't be too many, maybe 1,000, 1,200, 1,200 tons. Brownfield expansions are only envisaged at Mysore and Satara.

Satara, basically that is Mahad plant supply. These are the two areas.

The rest of the plants, we see and of course, North plant, Panipat, where we are adding thin-wall capacities. Four machines are coming in this July.

By end of this financial year, that is 26-27, probably we'll be somewhere around 67, 68,000, maybe close to 70,000 tons.

Got it, got it. Sir, my second question is generally, whenever there is significant raw material price fluctuation taking place, the players who work on low margin packaging industry face a lot of headwinds.

At that time, clients tends to shift to different players in the industry. Just wanted to understand this current situation which is going on due to war, has this led to some older clients who went away from us or some new clients adding to our portfolio?

On the contrary to your expectation, in fact, we are finding our clients coming back in hordes because they're worried about the connectivity, material procurement ability, and ability to quickly react to the international scenario. We notice a jump in call-ups from even old clients like Berger and Nerolac, who used to give us only few grades, have now increased their call-ups in the fear, I would say rather, not fear of supply chain disruptions in smaller companies.

They are coming back to us in terms of increasing numbers. Also we notice the bond between us and the clients has become stronger due to the external environment being fragile.

We are, in fact, finding some of them coming back to us and dependence on companies like Mold-Tek is going to go up, because of course, I don't take it as an advantage, but scenario is such that materials, sometime in March especially, has become very difficult to procure. Due to our long-term relation with Reliance and our other suppliers, Indian Oil and HMC, we could able to get the necessary material in time.

Got it. Sir, would it be fair to assume though you have mentioned in press release that all the cost increase, we are able to pass on, just wanted to know the current scenario.

Will it be fair to assume that we would be able to maintain the 40 46%, 47% gross margin limits in the coming quarters too?

Certainly. We have passed on the entire price rise to the clients across the segments.

They also appreciated that the reality, ground realities. They have even some of them have reduced the period of raw material fluctuation, that means earlier there used to be quarterly, now they've come down to a monthly or even sometimes 15, fortnightly correction.

That way, even when the prices come down, we too will have to pass on the reduction to them. It's a fair game.

I am very thankful to all our clients. Majority of them have accepted the price rise rapidly, because the price movement in March was so rapid.

From ₹105 in the beginning, it went up to ₹160 and now currently hovering around ₹145, ₹150. We are in this kind of a scenario, found our clients very much with us, and I think we can still continue to maintain our profit margins.

Good to hear that, sir. Sir, from the perspective of capital allocation, as you said that this year we would be focusing less on spending or increasing our capacity, will it be fair to assume that the additional 40, 50 crores that we are earning is going to be used for repayment of debt?

Reimbursement of?

Repayment of debt. Because of the capacity expansion, we have taken certain debt on book.

Debt payment will happen from the cash accruals. Next year, you're talking about next year capital asset allocation budget?

For FY27. For FY27, yes, sir.

We are planning it will be in the region of around 80 to 85 crores overall. It could be from mostly from internal accruals and a little bit here and there debt if required.

Debt will be required?

Because cash generation will be much more than 80 crores. This year itself, if you look at the cash generation, it's around 72 plus 50, 900 and 123 crores.

We might have given a dividend of around 20 crores. Still 100 crores is our net cash accruals.

We'd be able to catch up with that within our requirement for next year. The cash flow is

We won't require any additional debt for the capacity? I'm just understanding that.

Yeah. It could be temporary in nature, but it will overall, I don't expect debt to increase.

Got it. Sir, just one last question and I'll join back the queue.

There is one accounting understanding I wanted to take. This particular quarter, we have significant jump in other expenses.

Could you just highlight what is the reason behind that?

Other expenses?

Yes, sir.

Some of the reasons could be we have taken up a severe preventive maintenance and change of screws and some other parts in the machines to suit to the RCP addition, because now recycled plastic has become a mandatory. 30% is mandatory now and it's going to be 40% from next April.

The machines which are equipped with ordinary screws are not able to process such mix and we have gone for better technically stronger screw material and screw systems. That corrections we have done in this quarter to a reasonable extent.

That's the one-time expansion in maintenance cost that is preventive in nature, but it's been taken in the P&L.

This mandatory requirement of RCP is just related to the paint and lube segment, right?

Currently, yes. The pharma and food are exempted from this.

Paint, lube constitute majority of our sales so in terms of volume. That's why we need to be ready with machines that are suitably altered.

Right. Thank you so much, sir.

I'll join back the queue.

Yeah.

Sir. I'm audible now?

Yeah.

Sir. Congratulations to the management for increasing the stake from 33.07% to 33.19%.

Okay.

Sir, one more thing. How many pharma companies have visited our premises?

Any good news about pharma business, status of new products, et cetera?

Sandeep, you should be very happy to note that in the year one itself, or I would say year one of full operations, we've grown by 210% compared to the last year from 10 11, 11.5 crores to almost 34 crores, 10.7 to 34.3. That is a 219% increase in pharma sales.

Of course, it's a small base, I would still take it as a good jump given the competitive environment in pharma packaging. Because of our good product range and ability to develop new packs faster, we are able to entrench into this field and quickly become a name in the industry.

We have now again taken a 50% increase as our target for this current year, to reach somewhere around 50 to 55 crores for the next financial year. Several clients are visiting nowadays.

I lost count. Several of them are at different stages.

Some of them are buying commercially, some of them are in line trials, some of them are in establishing our packs, like that. Some two, three new products, different cap systems are being introduced.

As I said, we are also looking at ophthalmic and nasal sprays and also a couple of other products which I can't divulge today because it's in the nascent stage of discussion. Be assured we'll be widening our product range year after year and getting more and more deep into the pharma sector in the coming years.

Sir. Anyway, sir, how many new products are in process now?

Molds are in process in pharma?

Now molds means I can't just give you a count. It could be 5 or 10 molds at any given time.

It may be new bottles, new sizes, same sizes with different weights. Like that different cores and different cavities may be changed or a new entirely new set of products are being developed.

At any given time, you can say there will be 5 to 10 products every quarter.

Okay. Sir.

One more thing. No margin available in exchange for Mold-Tek Packaging shares.

Can you give some details about this?

Oh, I don't know much about the stock exchange and their rules.

Sir, we were pledging the shares. We were pledging the shares and we were getting margin on it and now the exchange has suddenly stopped.

Okay.

Sir, please look into the matter and just go through. Sir, what is the status of land which we have bought?

Any expansion going on there?

Yeah. The land has been just acquired, but they are yet to hand over the land because of various bureaucratic things.

The land is earmarked now. The road in front of the land is being laid now because it is in front of our unit in Sultanpur.

We generally notice it everyday. Probably in this month, we should able to get the possession or agreement and then we'll be able to start commercial construction.

That is one of the reasons why the construction activity also could not be started.

Sir. What pharma packaging we are trying to start some new this thing?

That new land is mainly meant for pharma alone.

Okay.

Once the land is handed over, the construction activity will start immediately.

When will that start our?

I think it will go into commercial production only by beginning of next financial year, I mean next calendar year. It may take at least 8, 9 months to complete the construction once the land is handed over.

For various reasons, there is a delay from the TSIIC to hand over the land. We have paid for it more than 7, 8 months ago.

Around Jan 28 28 Jan 2028, it will be operational fully?

Yes, '27. '27 before end of the financial year, I think we may start the new plant because of the delay in land allotment.

Otherwise, it should have gone by third quarter of this year.

Okay. Thank you very much, sir.

Thanks for the reply. Yeah.

Yeah. Hi, am I audible?

Yes, go ahead.

Yeah. Hi, sir.

Thank you. Thanks for the opportunity, sir.

Congratulations on good set of numbers. Just one bookkeeping question.

If you can share the IML and non-IML mix for 4Q and FY26?

It was for the 4Q, it was around 75.5% 5% and overall year, it is 75.15%. In value terms, it is 76.8%.

Almost 77% you can say percentage in IML.

Got it, sir. That's helpful.

I joined a little bit late. Just pardon me if I missed it.

On the paint volume side, we have a very meaningful growth for the quarter. Is there any one-off because I think for 4Q, this kind of a paint growth that we have seen in terms of volume, 26% kind of YoY growth after a long time.

If you can just share some color whether it is sustainable going ahead and what we look to be kind of the growth?

Oh, 26% volume growth I didn't say. It is 14.4% in value terms and 13.5% is a growth in paint segment.

That 60% what I said is ABG numbers for the quarter, this particular quarter ABG compared to the previous year Q4, the ABG numbers have shot up by 60%.

There's no one-off in that case, sir? Sorry?

Your voice is not clear.

I'm saying there is no one-off in the volume growth that we have seen. There is no one-off as such, right?

No, what you mean it is a one-off the times only, it's not going to recur, you mean?

Yeah. Correct, correct.

No, no. They have been consistently growing around 40% to 60%.

Now it is overall yearly growth quarter quarter growth was 60 plus percentage, and overall yearly also it is close to 60%. Every quarter on quarter, a consistent growth because they are also maybe acquiring new market share in the paint segment.

I think it will continue to that level. The way they are aggressively marketing and aggressively ramping up their production capacities, I think we will certainly be in a strong double digits for next couple of years.

Okay. Sir, FY27, full year point of view, how should we understand the growth numbers, and if you can broadly give a breakup because lubricants has been degrowing, paint has now started growing?

You said both Asian Paints and other players are growing decently. If you just plain this some color on a full year basis FY27, what kind of a volume growth we should look for and a breakdown of that?

See, I can see two ways of looking at in future because volume growth comes from near kgs. Then pharma, even if it grows by 50%, the number of kgs it will add will be less.

The number of rupees or value-wise, it will be much higher, because our average realization pharma is almost double that of other segments. In terms of just volume, it might look like 10% to 15%, anywhere between 10% to 15% growth is possible.

In terms of value, I'm sure we'll be clocking between 13% to 15% value growth. Like what we did this year 13.3%, we hope that we will be somewhere between 13% to 15% in a value growth in the next financial year.

That is why I said in the year 26-27, we may cross the 1,000 crore mark sales.

Got it, sir. This is especially helpful.

Thank you, and all the best.

Thank you.

Yeah. Thank you for the opportunity.

My first question was regarding the paints growth. I think the earlier participant mentioned that the paints volume growth has been 26%.

I think this is for the fourth quarter. If you could just give us some understanding as to where has this growth come from?

I understand you've mentioned that a larger portion of growth has come from ABG, but has Berger and Nerolac also contributed meaningfully to this particular growth because of the raw material unavailability issue?

Berger and Nerolac started only from March. That is the time when the real war erupted and situation become fragile.

Berger and Nerolac growth is hardly for a couple of weeks in March or last 15 days of March. Of course, they were buying from us, but the numbers have improved from March onwards.

Asian Paints and ABG were consistently growing. Asian Paints was negative till the third quarter, but in the fourth quarter, it's a good positive rise of 17%, which pulled the overall number into positive for the full year.

ABG was the major contributor towards this 14% growth in paint segment by handsomely adding almost 10% of the growth has come from Asian Paint I mean ABG alone, the remaining 4% from Asian Paints and others.

Got it. Secondly, you've mentioned that a larger portion of the raw material price increase has been passed on to the customer.

Our volume growth for the quarter for fourth quarter is 17% and so is our top line growth. Ideally, had there been some realization growth as well, which I'm assuming would have happened in the month of March, we ideally should have seen a higher value growth because volume and there could be some realization growth as well.

Is it safe to assume that a larger portion of the value growth will be seen in the first quarter numbers?

The realization pass on related growth will be seen in the first quarter?

Yeah.

Your guess is correct because in the last 2 weeks of March only we got the price hike, because the war erupted in 1st of March. We had to obviously keep the pricing stable till mid of March, some kind of places 25th of March.

Hardly a week the price is reflective of high price. You will notice that in Q1 more significantly.

Got it. Because of us taking price hikes sorry, I'm assuming that our raw material polypropylene would have gone up by at least 25%, 30 odd percent.

Have we lost any customers given that we we may be revising the prices more often than just what we usually do? I'm guessing 15 days or 1 month or so.

Have we lost any customers because of that?

See, all of our clients are blue-chip clients in their respective segments, be it ice creams or curds or paints or lubes or food, oils. They cannot afford to reduce their presence in the market.

They keep producing their products at the same pace as of today. I don't know how bad it can become, worse it can become, but as of now, we don't see any demand downturn in any of our top clients.

That's a very reassuring fact which we are also observing. We very rarely, out of our 100%, hardly 4% to 5% or max 6%, 7% of our sales would go to non-blue-chip clients.

Our impact, if any, would happen in those 5%, 6% to the tune of 1%, 2%. While we lose 1%, 2% of such business, our major clients Asian Paints, and ABG or even HUL, they're all going in full guns with their demand increase because it's mainly meant for local consumption.

In pharma, ours is a replacement demand. We are replacing others due to our better quality and consistency.

That is how we are penetrating in the Indian pharma industry, which is meant for exports. The penetration is mainly into the replacement demand.

The growing demand for pharma also you must be noticing that all the sanctions against pharma exports have been completely removed, at least as of now. All the pharma companies in a full way they're going forward with their expansion plans.

We don't see any impact immediately unless some new sanctions are put on pharma exports. Given this scenario, most of the cases, 99% of 98% to 99% of our clients are safe and they are growing with the domestic growth in demand, which is somewhere around 6% to 8%, you know that.

That way we are safe. Because of the replacement demand in pharma and other areas and more and more IML absorption coming from Asian Paints, we are confident that we'll be able to sustain the growth.

Got it. Thirdly, on the FMCG or the F&F segment growth, how should we think about it specifically just the F&F growth from FY27 for the year FY27?

More so from the Panipat facility, we had onboarded a few customers. I think we've added a few more customers in 4Q.

If you could just throw some light on what the capacity utilization for the Panipat plant for FMCG was in third quarter and what was it in fourth quarter? How do you think about this in FY27?"

I didn't have perfect numbers, but I can get the feel of that. Q3 was hardly anything because that is the time when we started the Panipat thin-wall production.

Q4 started in decent numbers. Somewhere around couple of crores of turnover has come in the month of March alone from Q-Pack and thin-wall together.

The numbers are increasing and the client number is swelling actually. We have signed recently couple of big clients who are buying from our other competitors in that area.

North is going to significantly add to the numbers in the next financial year for sure. Food and FMCG if you see only the thin-wall, it is 15.4%.

If you combine with thick-wall also, food is around 18%. This 15.4, I'm sure it will be looking at at least 20% growth in the food and FMCG, including the North numbers for the next financial year.

Got it. If you can just share some light on what is the peak revenue potential from the Panipat facilities that we should think about and how long will it take for us to reach the peak capacity utilization there?

See in ABG plant, that is mainly meant for pails and Q-Packs, we are hardly reaching around 60% capacity utilization in Panipat. In thin-wall, it's hardly 4, 5 months old.

We maybe around 20%, 25% capacity utilization. There's a long way to go.

We are, in fact, adding four more machines in July for thin-wall. Which will expand the capacity there by another 100%.

Capacity utilization next year, even if we reach 50%, that will add handsomely to the numbers. Panipat has a long way to go.

The new building is completely ready now, the second building for the food and FMCG. It has four machines, there will be eight from July.

Now we are getting ready for the festive season that starts sometime in July in North. I think next year there will be a good jump.

I don't think it will go to 80% capacity utilization, but at least from current 20%, it may go up to 40%, 50% on a bigger capacity.

Got it. Just last

Sure, no problem.

Thanks for the opportunity. Many congratulations, sir, on a very good set of numbers.

My first question on the EBITDA per kg, right, we have shown good improvement. What should that number look like say in FY27 and '28?

FY27, as I expected, we are aiming at at least 42 to 43. 42.5 could be a good estimate for full year.

Then how it frames in pharma, in '28 probably we can aim at around 43 to 44 range. Definitely the uptrend will continue now because two things.

It's not just the growth in the different segments, but the consolidation of our operations in Hyderabad, where we reduce five plants to two plants. Now only Annaram and Sultanpur is two units which are producing all the products which were earlier made in five plants.

Thereby getting the better efficiencies, overhead reduction, and movement of goods has come down. All this is yielding to better productivity.

All this consolidation happened only till January this year, that means until Jan, Feb. The full benefit of this consolidation and improved efficiencies would be reflective in the next financial year.

That itself should add a rupee or so to the already 40.7 what we have achieved this year compared to 37.6 in the previous year. There's a jump of 8%, 8.4% increase in the EBITDA margin, which is a substantial jump, which we lost during last couple of years, we recovered.

Going forward, with these efficiencies kicking in, and more and more HTL labels also being made in-house, and new ways of automation which we have taken up in various areas to reduce the manpower dependency is going to improve the efficiencies going forward. ABG plants even today are hardly around 60% capacity utilization.

I hope next year they will be reaching 70 plus, which will be a very good accretive to the bottom line. Going forward with only brownfield expansions, which will marginally may require capital, but increase in the capacity utilization will kick in.

I look at very positively for 26-27 and to aim at least 20 42.5 to 43 range for 26-27. 27-28 may be a little difficult to predict now.

Maybe we may touch even 45 given a good in pharma if it happens. We may aim at 44, 45 also for next 27-28.

I can give a better picture going forward in the next couple of quarters.

Great, sir. Just reconfirming the growth guidance for '27.

You suggested 10% to 15% volume growth and 13% to 13% to 15% value growth. Did I hear correctly?

Yes. Volume growth 10% to 13%, 10% to 13% because pharma won't add volumes.

It will hardly be in few tons. Even the rupees become up by 50%, volume-wise last year it was hardly how much, 853 tons.

Last year it was 853 tons, and so the next year 26-27 it will hardly touch 1,200 to 1,300 kg. Sorry, tons, 1,200 to 1,300 tons, even if you achieve a 50% increment.

Volume-wise increment might look 10% to 13%, but value-wise increment we are aiming at 13% to 15%.

Okay. That implies we should easily cross 1,200 crore of revenue by FY28, which was the past guidance, I believe.

I hope so. I'm sure this year we'll be aiming at 1,000 plus for sure.

Thank you for the opportunity. Am I audible?

Yes.

Sir, my first question was on paints. If I do a small back calculation, even your non-ABG paint volumes for Q4 would have grown at roughly between 13% to 15%, which was kind in a declining trend or let's say flat-ish trend for the first 9 months.

Just wanted to understand what has changed this quarter because you did highlight that one change has happened is IML adoption by Asian Paints. Just wanted to understand how sustainable is this double-digit volume growth non-ABG, which you've seen in Q4, and what is the growth outlook on the volume front for non-ABG clients in FY27?

Yes, you said the reason, the IML adoption by Asian Paints in more and more brands is one of the reasons of us getting back their higher volume of business. That I hope will continue because their artworks are very critical.

If you notice their pails in the market, they have metallic IML, which is a top-class IML to handle both technically and visually. Visually it gives an excellent outlook and technically it's very complex to handle.

I don't think we lose that edge in the next couple of years. We may continue to gain traction with Asian Paints given their commitment, because on their commitment we invested on several new initiatives in the printing and even in the robotics.

They generally very much respect their commitment. I still look at double-digit growth from Asian Paints in the coming years.

Got it. Sir, as you earlier also highlighted that in terms of price hike because of this steep inflation in polymer prices that we're able to initiate some price hike, would it be possible to call out how much price hikes have been taken versus the steep increase in raw material prices?

Completely offsetting the price increase in raw material. It's not any percentage.

Whatever is the price hike, they have passed on in their pricing and they increase the prices accordingly.

Good evening, sir, and thank you for the opportunity and congratulations. My question is specifically on the paints.

If we have reported a 42.1% EBITDA per kg, how the paint EBITDA has moved YoY?

See, I always tell you pails EBITDA, pails and square packs EBITDA is in the region of 30 to 35 per kg. What pulls it up is food and FMCG and pharma, overall average.

I have no detailed EBITDA per kg of each segment, but it will lie in the region of 30 to 33 35.

See, the reason why I'm asking, we have as you said that we have passed on the price increases. Will this EBITDA per kg despite ABG is growing upward of 60% will show the upward trajectory in FY27 or will remain in the same range?

It will definitely remain positively for all the clients, especially ABG in particular, because ABG we have now establishing Mahad during the current year, and that numbers will keep improving handsomely. Next year also we look forward to a strong growth in the paint segment.

Okay. On the last question on the food and FMCG, I think the mix as the new clients are coming and you have given the existing client is also expanding their business.

How we should look at the food FMCG in terms of the number of clients which we have added? Is this number is going to exceed FY26 or will remain similar level, or in terms of growth and in terms of margin, if you can give some qualitative comments?

Definitely, I'm very confident that more and more number of clients will be added in 26-27 than last year, basically because our North plant has started operations from October, November. Slowly there is a traction that is being created.

As I said, in the month of March, we have made some sales worth around 3, 3.5 crores for the both Q-Pack and food together, which was zero last year. Going forward, that itself is indication that 42 35 to 40 crores of new addition in business can come from North in Q-Pack and food together.

That is still less than 50% capacity utilization, but will be handsome number new addition. In my opinion, 26-27 will have many more client additions in food and FMCG from the North compared to overall year 25-26.

Hi. Thank you for the opportunity.

My question again is on the volume growth that you have highlighted for 26-27 of around 13% to 15%. If we are saying that Asian Paints should grow at double digits and ABG is growing much faster for us, plus food and FMCG I think our volumes are growing at 20 20% to 25%.

I just wanted to understand where is the disconnect. If that kind of growth we are able to see, then FY27 ideally should be much better for us in terms of volumes.

Just wanted to understand.

No, I said the volumes is not 10% to 15%, I said 10% to 13% volume increase because pharma numbers will be less in tons. I said 13% to 15% for the value in terms of value.

Having said that, lubes is one area where we don't see any major increase in the even next couple of years because it's stagnating market. The industry itself is not growing.

It's growing only in single digits, sometimes not even there. There we have substantial 17%, 18% of our turnover comes from that segment.

That segment I am not anticipating any major growth. A couple of points of growth may come in Castrol.

I don't foresee a lube will be pulling us up. What pulls us up is Asian Paints and ABG, as you correctly said, because Asian Paints growth even in this full year if you take, though it is 17% in the Q4, full year it is hardly around 3%, 3.5%.

That 3.5% becoming 10% will be a good value add for us in the year 26-27, we foresee for that. Lube being a laggard, that's why we are aiming between 10% to 13% volume growth.

Understood. Sir steady state, ex of the increase in raw material prices, the realizations in paints has been flat-ish, but now with Asian Paints also increasing their IML consumption plus we are now at a decent scale for ABG as well.

Do we see realizations improving or our pricing power improving because of IML in paints, ex of the price increase that we take because of raw material inflation?

Yes, that's why I'm positive about EBITDA growth from 40.7 which we achieved this year to 42 and a half level. It could be a little better.

Let's see how the war and the other economic things play on.

Congratulations to the team and the entire management for the performance. Sir, my question is pertaining to the lubricant segment.

Do we further foresee or anticipate any loss of volume in coming quarters, or we can say that it has normalized at this level?

I think you have very smart question. In fact, I am also thinking it will stay there because we have no more public sector units to lose.

All the private sector companies value our relation and our quality and the consistency, which is very important. I'm not saying it's not for public sector, but public sector has more valuation for pricing than anything else, and it's their policy.

Having lost all the PSU business now, we may sustain at the current levels in lubes.

Okay. Thank you, sir.

Thank you for the opportunity again. Sir, just wanted to understand your view related to the ROCE for the company.

We used to be a company where we were generating 20% ROCE. Is our target same back?

Secondly, wanted to understand our working capital days are getting stretched. What is the outlook on that?

See, working capital stretch is basically you are looking at a higher valuation also, because the last 3 weeks we have been purchasing material at higher price, and that has indirectly might have impacted the value to look higher. Inventory days also have become a little longer, because in pharma, one has to keep 3 months material ready, because sudden requirements generally come up in batch quantities for pharma.

Their pick-up times are a little late, and payment terms are also longer. Pharma industry has been following the 90-day to 110-days payment cycle.

That's why you might notice that debtor days and inventory days are stretched a bit. Coming back to ROCE, yes, ROCE is leaped by about 14% from 10.2 to 12.4, and probably it may hit around 13.5% to 14% in the next financial year.

It was 17%, 18% 2, 3 years ago, I agree. That was when all these greenfield projects have been started.

Investments have shot up in the last 3 years. These investments start yielding now.

This year, I would say they crossed 50% to 60% capacity utilization. Next year onwards, I'm confident it will be 70 plus and they will be yielding to the bottom line.

Probably the ROCE will start looking at around 15% by 27-28.

Sorry. I hope I'm audible now.

Yeah. Thank you for the opportunity again.

Sir, could you just tell us what will the total capacity be for FMCG once the eight once the four more units come in at the Panipat facility?

Currently, I think it is about 1,200 tons or 8 900 to sorry, 1,000 tons. It will become 2,000 tons food and FMCG there.

Q-Pack also we're adding a little bit. About 2,000 it will become 2,000 to 2,500 tons per annum, including Q-Pack.

Secondly, just on the raw material availability perspective, are we facing any issues currently for polypropylene supplies and for how long are we covered at this point?

No, we are well covered for almost 2 months. That is what is shown in inventory days.

We have that coverage of 2 months which is there in physical form also. Material availability has improved because Reliance has started its production in a regular basis from middle of March, and they are indicating and assuring us that there won't be any shortfall.

One or two grades especially in pharma are on little short supply. That is where we are concentrating.

Got it.

Hello. Sir, most of my questions have been answered.

Just wanted to understand on the growth perspective. While you have answered on volume and value terms, just wanted to get that you have guided going forward on maintaining around 20% growth at terms of profitability at EBITDA and PAT level.

Are you maintaining that or is there any upside or downward revision?

I think we'll certainly be there. We are aiming at at least 210 crores EBITDA for next financial year up from 173.

That's a 20% rise. I think we are definitely going to achieve that in view of not only the increasing business, but our internal improvisations and efficiency creation, what we are bringing through the consolidation of units.

If things go well, nothing further damage happens through this war, we should be looking better than that expected EBITDA.

Sir. Thank you.

Thank you for the follow-up opportunity. Sir, I just had one question on thin-wall.

If I look at our growth rates, QoQ we have done 44% plus and even YoY, it's a very good number at 30%, which was around 13% to 15% in the first 9 months. Just wanted to understand let's say if I have to break down this growth between let's say your other plants and Panipat and how much of this growth is driven by let's say new SKU addition or new client addition.

Just wanted to have some flavor on the growth breakup of what is leading to such a high growth number and how much of that is sustainable going forward?

In Q-Pack?

In thin-walls.

In thin-wall. See, the number is not 30%.

It is 15.4% in value terms, 18% if you include the bulk food packs. So 18% is the number what we achieved in the year 26-27.

Why my confidence stays it can be better is because of our Panipat additional capacities are getting created and several new client inquiries have been received in that area, Northern region. We have started adding clients who have started buying from March onwards a decent numbers.

Going forward, they will appreciate the quality and suppliers service abilities of Mold-Tek, which they are not seeing because of distance in the last few years. Now with our presence in Panipat, I'm sure we'll be able to add lot many clients in that region, which will contribute to the increased growth in food and FMCG.

Okay. Sir, but what about the existing clients' wins?

Are we seeing any growth there or is that majority of the growth is coming only from this Panipat side?

No. All our clients are growing.

You take Milky Mist, you take Hatsun, you look at Vadilal or Quality Walls. Their numbers are all going up and the ice cream or yogurts, whatever products they sell, their numbers are all going up.

Only Cadbury's 5 Star is stagnant, but for that, all top brands are growing in double digits. That growth will definitely accrue to us.

Apart from that, how we can go beyond that is what I'm explaining is through Panipat.

Helpful, sir. All the best.

Thank you.

I thank you all for showing your interest and spending time to attend the conference call today. I especially thank Rajesh Kumar of Emkay for arranging this call, and the operator who has patiently conducted the call in a pleasant manner.

I also appreciate people's interest in our company, and be assured that we are on a good track and more and more product range also we are looking at, which may not very clearly on the drawing board now. It will happen during the next three, four quarters in pharma especially.

We are also looking at efficiencies to improve cost controls. Now we have created teams of finance and HR admin at all the units who will be directly monitoring and controlling the cost elements closely.

With this new kind of managerial outlook and consolidation of units, I think we are on a strong wicket to perform better in the coming quarters. I also hope peace will prevail soon and all the economies and especially our Indian economy will catch up with the speed which it was about to reach.

Thank you all once again, and bye-bye. Good evening.