A very good evening, and a warm welcome to the Q4 earnings call. Joining with us today are Uday Reddy - Founder, Chairman & CEO; Deepak Goyal - Executive Director; and Anubhav Batra - CFO.

Before we start the call, let me draw your attention to the fact that today's discussion may feature statements that are forward-looking in nature. All statements other than statements of historical fact could be deemed forward-looking in nature.

Such statements are inherently subject to risk and uncertainties, some of which cannot be quantified or predicted. A detailed disclosure in this regard is mentioned in the results presentation that is uploaded on our website.

Audio recording and transcript will be available soon. Hope everybody got a chance to go through our investor presentation and shareholder letter.

The management will be happy to answer questions, and we will now open the floor for Q&A. Saurabh, over to you.

Thank you for this opportunity. I have three questions.

We have cash of ₹1,000 crore, and of course, the dividend is pretty handsomely given along with buybacks. I was just wondering, why not think of some acquisitions in AI space, especially voice, and why not explore acquisitions in related areas which can propel our growth?

That's my first question. Second question is, last call, I think it was told that by March the company will sign another ATP deal with one more bank, just want an update on that.

The last question is, we have ₹12 crore of FX loss. Of course, I know, the USD has moved sharply against the rupee.

However, are we not hedging? If at all we are hedging, then what went wrong, and how can we avoid this in future?

Also, can we show this as a separate line item in the P&L? Of course, it's mentioned in the investor presentation, but I think it will help the investors to have more clarity and assess the overall EBITDA in a proper way.

That's it. Thanks.

Hi Deepak, Uday here. Let me answer the first and second question, and the third question I will pass on to Anubhav, though we had a very extensive discussion on the hedging in our last board meeting.

When it comes to the acquisition side, we're pretty open, but we are not really actively not looking for any acquisition, but we're pretty open. As and when we find right investments, I think we're quite keen, but we always believe in build versus buy, right?

The expectations are sky-rocketing, we need to be really mindful. We would rather focus on build versus buy, so that's what my comments like.

That's number one. Number two, ATP, yes, we have signed the third deal.

In fact, we went live last month. We added the third bank, which is Bandhan Bank.

We already integrated, we went live with them. I think we billed for one month,

this

Q4 billed for one month for the Q4 of last year.

In terms of the hedging, yeah. Deepak, on hedging, basically, it's a non-cash item because of mark-to-market of some payables.

We do have a hedging policy, and honestly, our international payable and receivable provide a natural hedge, but this one is more of a specific liability balance sheet item which got restated. Obviously, because of the USD-INR excessive fluctuation, this hit us badly in this quarter.

We did call it out separately so that all the investors may get a fair view of our operational profitability. We are reworking on our hedging policy to see if we can reduce the exposure, and it will get addressed not just by the policy, but also we are trying to settle this balance sheet item to ensure that there is a minimalistic P&L volatility in the coming quarters.

Because the timing of the payout was not certain, we could not go ahead and do a forward cover to this because of the uncertainty of timing of the cash flows, but we would want to take it away from our balance sheet as soon as possible to reduce the volatility, so.

Right, understood. Just a follow-up question, sir, on the first point.

I do understand that the valuations are pretty high in the AI space, you prefer building something versus acquiring. Could you just tell us what new products are we working on and what new platforms you may be working on if you can just throw some light on that?

Deepak, I think it's not fair on our part to share our innovation roadmap. Having said that, we are expect to launch one gigantic platform this quarter.

We have been betting big on this platform for quite some time. I'm personally working on this platform for the last 40 days.

I think we should able to announce to market in the next probably a month's time.

Superb. All the best, sir.

Thank you.

Thank you, yeah.

Sir, I'm new to the company, please pardon my ignorance. I am just trying to understand why our operating margins are continuously falling since FY22 and have they stabilized at these levels now at 16% EBITDA, or do you see further dip, or you see the same margin profile going forward, or you expect a bounce back from these levels?

Keshav, Anubhav here. We do have seen a decline, but honestly, we have become range-bound if you look at it.

The operating profits at a gross margin level have improved slightly in last couple of quarters. At the same time, at EBITDA level, we are making some conscious investments in GTM, and we have called it out in earlier earnings call as well, on both innovation side and GTM side, we're investing in growth.

Because of that, the EBITDA percentage appears to be where it is, but we do see them improving as well as at least holding on in the near future. Our investments are going to continue on the GTM side, but they will bear fruits in the coming quarters, and you already see that some margin improvement have happened on the gross margin profile.

Great. That's really reassuring to hear.

What about the top line? Looking at the kind of demand and feedback from our customers and so on, what kind of broad range do you expect the revenue for the next, let's say, 3 to 5 years that in our business we can sustain?

Deepak, you want to take that question? Deepak?

Hi, Deepak here. Go ahead.

Yeah. You see, we are seeing overall revenue growth of CPaaS industry for about, you can say, 8% on an average, 8% to 10% there is a organic growth, how the industry is growing.

We see ourselves earning a larger share on year-on-year basis, right? We expect that our market share would also increase with the kind of investments we have made.

It's going to be definitely more than 10% a year.

Understood. Sir, if you could just give us some idea about what has been the experience of our counterparts in Western countries like the advanced markets of, let's say, US?

Are there still intermediates like us, the role that we are playing in India, are they similar companies, or they have a integrated model wherein the telcos or the WhatsApp, etc., they are directly doing what we are doing?

If I understood your Uday. If I understood your question correctly, you are saying the working model of CPaaS player the same as India in the US?

Here, the answer is yes. In fact, there are few companies, international companies, they operate in India as well as in the US, for example, Sinch, right?

There are more, yeah, it's more or less it's the same.

Okay. What is our right to win like the example you gave of Bandhan Bank, who has recently joined us or is expected to join our customer list?

Our competitors, what is their proposition versus what is our proposition? Is it 100% pricing-based, or is there something else also which tilts the balance in our favor?

See, it is always innovation-led, okay? That's what we always believe in having a differentiator over our competitors, and that's why our customers always keep the faith in us.

That reflects in our customer base if you look at it. Any 7 or 8 top 10 names in any vertical if you pick up, you will find them as our customers.

Having said that, you talk about Bandhan Bank. What Uday mentioned, Bandhan Bank, we acquired them for our anti-phishing platform, which is again a great innovation which we did couple of years back.

We are getting very good traction in the market, and Bandhan Bank has been using our CPaaS services for quite some time from Karix anyway.

Understood. What is the kind of capex that we are looking at on a per annum basis?

I can see that over the past 3, 4 years, it's between ₹100 and ₹150 crore. Is that trajectory expected to continue?

What is the question, Keshav? Sorry, can you please repeat, Keshav?

I just wanted to get a hang about the capex requirements in this business. Over the past 4, 5 years, it seems we are doing something like ₹100 to ₹150 crore per annum.

Is that trajectory expected to continue in the future, ₹100 to ₹150 crore per annum capex?

Yes, absolutely yes.

Sir. Understood.

Sir, thank you very much, and I must congratulate for a very timely share buyback and the excellent dividend payout. On behalf of all the shareholders, I want to thank you.

Thanks a lot. Thank you, yeah.

Hello. Thanks for the opportunity.

I have actually two questions on the Digital Platform segment. My first question is, given the exceptional 98.3% gross margin of Digital Platform segment, this is clearly the growth engine future profitability.

However, achieving ₹395 crore in FY26, it is in single-digit growth, despite of your heavy investment in Wisely AI. Can you provide a broad growth target

Trupti, your voice is cracking. I think you are in a very bad network.

Voice is cracking. Okay.

Sir, I just wanted to know that ₹395 crore Digital Platform segment, which represents single-digit growth, despite of heavily investment in Wisely AI. Can you provide a broad growth target for this division for FY27 and FY28, and specifically what percentage of your FY27 target is already locked in via signed contracts or committed pipelines?

Trupti, Digital Platforms has a contribution from our traditional offerings as well as new offerings like Wisely AI. While the growth looks a little moderate, it is because some products are dependent on the channel-based growth, which are growing at a steady pace.

However, Wisely AI kind of platforms, obviously, are growing at a much faster pace. You would have seen that we onboarded one large telco globally, and it contributed to a significant number this year.

We basically expect the growth to be much faster in the coming years because we would like to multiply our efforts on Wisely AI, and it should actually bear more fruits in the coming quarters where we would be able to convert more of such customers and the growth rate should accelerate.

Okay. Can you provide me the percentage like the growth target and everything for FY27 and '28?

Sorry, Trupti, we don't actually issue any forward-looking statements, I can't give a specific percentage, but definitely we would want to aspire for higher percentage growth than the past.

Sir, I have a question: you have highlighted that ₹200 crore in revenue came from new logos, and that 23% of the new client onboarded via WhatsApp and RCS. Could you break down exactly how much percentage of that ₹200 crore flowed directly into Digital Platform segment, and furthermore, looking at top 50 clients, what is the current cross-sales conversion with migrating from them?

Sorry, Trupti, your voice is actually breaking quite a bit. The question is not clear.

Okay. Actually I'm using Hello sir, am I audible now?

No. Let her come back.

Let her come back.

and

Sir, thanks for the opportunity. My first question is on the enterprise business.

Obviously, we are back on growth in the enterprise side, and a large part of that growth is being fueled by the OTT channel that we have built over the last 3 years. Based on the current run rate, we are already at ₹1,000 crore kind of a run rate on OTT.

The base has expanded. From here on, what kind of growth rate can we expect from the OTT channel?

In terms of the engagement with our existing clients, are we seeing the penetration is actually coming from the existing clients, or we are getting net new clients on the OTT side? Also on the enterprise business side, ex of OTT, what is the stability that we are seeing in the business, which obviously has stabilized, but on the domestic piece, is it the existing clients are increasing their spend on the existing channels or the CPaaS channels, or is there any newer technologies that we are also working on in terms of offerings?

Hi, Amit, Deepak here. Firstly, I would like to say that yes, OTT channels are growing very fast, WhatsApp is growing very fast, and in terms of new channels, RCS adoption is happening quite fast.

Even SMS is also growing in terms of volumes, because you are aware that most of the messages which are sent are mandated by the regulators like RBI, and SEBI, and IRDA, all the banking alerts, UPI alerts, you are aware of it. When these transactions go up, the volumes also go up.

However, they may not be reflecting everything into higher revenues because prices are also a little going down on the SMS side. OTT is opening new use cases, very interesting use cases, which is actually helping us engaging, retaining our customers, and our focus was this year to increase our wallet share by offering new use cases, by offering very interesting journeys to the customers and which has really helped us in solidifying our existing customer base.

Other than that, we have done very well in acquiring new logos as well. For example, we won Reserve Bank of India, okay, now Reserve Bank of India is very closely working with us.

We won Bank of Baroda, which was not there with us, is one of the largest bank which were not there with us. In terms of existing customers, I'll just give you one of the largest e-commerce company, we are able to increase our wallet share to more than 50% because earlier they were only giving us messaging business, now they're giving us OTT as well because the kind of solutions we created for them.

I am overall very happy the way our team has performed on the OTT space. You must be aware that last financial year, they recognized us as the partner of the year for India.

That and then Google acknowledged us as the partner of the year. We're doing very well on OTT space, we are doing very well on the solutioning side, and that is helping us winning new customers as well as increasing our wallet share with the existing customers.

Okay.

You also talk about new technologies, for the CPaaS space, new technologies, new channels also, which is RCS, which is unlocking a lot of possibilities for us. In terms of new platforms, Tanla keeps coming up with new ideas and new platforms, so that is helping us.

Let's say, for example, Bandhan Bank, we just closed, that's one such example which Bandhan Bank was working very closely with Karix for CPaaS services, and we were able to sell our anti-phishing platform as well. Similarly, we hope to win more banks in this financial year.

As Uday mentioned, Tanla is working on new platforms, and we are very excited that our enterprise team would be able to sell these platforms to our enterprise customers.

Okay. Also how we are preparing ourselves for the technology risk, because in the AI world, the tech is changing very fast, and how we're preparing ourselves for that, and also there is a regulatory change that could also happen where sending SMS will no longer be compulsory.

Are we also seeing or preparing ourselves for such kind of scenario and shifting our focus from that? Because what was happening in the voice or the SMS business, we are seeing volume growth, but there is a continuous pricing shrinkage that is happening both from the large banks and also from the government segment, because volumes are coming, but it's not actually showing up in growth.

So Go ahead, Uday, please.

No, Deepak, go ahead.

Amit. Firstly, as Uday mentioned is, we are AI-native company, right?

Tanla is doing a lot of innovations, and our platforms are built using AI, right? We are very excited with those opportunities and those possibilities.

There is that. On the other side, what was the other question?

I forgot.

On the pricing. Government volumes and banks volumes which is

Yeah. These things I mentioned earlier also, it happens.

Then there is always a reset happens, right? We hope soon we may see some reset happening over there on the prices as well.

Okay.

What you're expecting is that the prices have actually bottomed out, or we can see some revisions there in terms of pricing?

It is on the cards. When it will happen, I can't say.

Okay.

What would be the mix of the government-led institution's volume in our overall volume mix, if you can give some color on that?

You mean government means central government, or central, state government, or talking about PSU banks and all that?

No, PSU banks also plus NIC or the central government agencies.

See, the PSU banks is a very good share of our overall volumes, and it is growing. As you must be aware that PSU banks are doing very well in the country today, right?

With all kind of focus from the central government and everything. We manage very significantly large volumes for PSU banks, and those volumes are growing, right?

On the government side, we have NIC, and then we have some small other government institutions. Primarily it is NIC, but again, NIC is a very small percentage of our overall business.

Also,

Amit, just to add, from the total volumes that we do with PSUs and government, the regulated part of the messages is obviously a small subset of it because we do many more use cases than just the regulated messages.

Okay. On the platform side, obviously, sir, we have been upfront in terms of investments, and we have quite a lot big platforms there, and we have closed some deals also, both in India and internationally, but it's not getting reflected or it's not getting converted into the growth numbers as of now.

Is it just a timing issue, or you're seeing some other structural challenges or some kind of challenges having that some scaling up? Also, in terms of the international strategy, how you are seeing the growth for the next year, domestic versus international?

It is, Amit, honestly more of a timing issue. There is no structural changes or shift happening.

It is basically to do with how quickly can we replicate our success like we have done with couple of banks in India and abroad. We are obviously accelerating our efforts on the GTM side to ensure that the proportion becomes higher and which reflects in the overall performance of the company.

It's basically a matter of time this will start reflecting like that.

Okay. The international expansion that we invested for the international expansion last year, what kind of growth we can expect from domestic versus international?

International actually continues to be a significant focus area. Our efforts are equally distributed in expanding in India as well as other geographies, a significant portion of growth is going to come from outside India as well.

Sir. Thanks, and all the best.

Thank you.

Thanks for the opportunity. Couple of questions.

First, on the FY26, can you provide some sense about volume and realization breakup, or maybe quarter, or whichever way you can provide some sense how it is playing out? Second question is on the ATP side, anti-phishing, you said the deal which we signed.

Can you provide the earlier two deal, how that has scaled, and how it is, let's say, whether revenue is linked with the number of messages which we block, or it is fixed-price deal? Some contour around it, how generally revenue scale-up happen.

Third question is about the OTT channel. Now, if I look, let's say, last four quarter as a percentage of revenue, it is largely remains stable, around 31%, 32% each quarter, which in a way indicate OTT channel growth also moderated to the company average kind of thing.

I just want to understand your broad thought process, whether market has stabilized between different channel, SMS versus other OTT channel, and if yes, what would be the reason, because I presume OTT channel should have grown faster. Thank you.

Yeah. Actually, first and third question is linked in a way, Dipesh, because OTT continues to grow faster than SMS.

However, since SMS is more price-sensitive in that sense, the volumes are growing at a much faster pace. There is some stress on the pricing, although it has not declined significantly, but there is pricing pressure.

Volumes grow faster. In OTT, the correction in price is obviously slower, it is less competitive, overall we see significant growth in volumes and slight correction in prices.

That's the mix of price-volume. On the second question, the ATP deals are basically per subscriber per month kind of basis, it is not linked with the number of messages blocked, it is actually basis the number of subscribers protected, so that's the model we work on.

Now just on the first and third which you link on OTT side, now if let's say SMS is facing pricing pressure, then OTT share should have increased, right? In your case, all four quarter OTT share remain flatish, 31%, 32% kind of thing, which in a way indicate OTT volume and realization both put together is not showing any different behavior than SMS growth.

No, see, I tell you. See, what happens is, I think Anubhav also mentioned the same thing that when we talk about OTT, it's primarily WhatsApp, which is more than, I would say, 80% or 90%, right?

Because RCS is still small comparatively. When we talk about WhatsApp, then there are promotional messages, and then there are utility messages.

The WhatsApp is growing more on utility, and they want to bring down the promotion, because of customer complaints, the user experience is going bad, and all that, you must have seen even your box must be getting cluttered with all kind of promotional messages, which even Meta doesn't want. They want to bring it down.

These messages are very expensive, almost 10 times more expensive compared to your transactional messages or utility messages, let's say, if you get any information or any transaction on your WhatsApp, right? WhatsApp wants to grow those messages and bring the volume down for marketing.

Even though the volumes are growing, but it may not be reflecting in the revenues or the revenue growth per se.

No, I understand, and that is what my bigger question was: whether now market is stabilizing, because the way you are indicating, because of the mix change between promotional and utility messages, blended realization might have come down for WhatsApp messages, which is reflected in despite higher volume growth, lower blended realization, giving you flatish kind of similar growth as company average. Do you think this would be the now stabilized kind of market, which in a way indicate OTT channel growth will converge with overall market growth?

Okay. It's like this.

We operate, let's say when I talk about our enterprise business, our enterprise business happen about 75% to 80% business happening for the top 250 customers, let's say, right? Then you have a long tail from where you have 15%, 20% business coming from another 50, 60,000 enterprises.

This is how the CPaaS market is tagged. As far we are concerned, we are there in almost 80% of these customers.

We are present, and now we are trying to increase our wallet share. Having said that, now when we talk about OTT, you would see that WhatsApp still growing year on year, the growth is very, very high, because they are venturing into SME market.

Their target is maybe a 2 million SMEs in the country, where currently we are not operating, right? Where we are operating, yes, you are right, that it is very well stabilized, but then there's another huge market where they call it TSPs, technology service providers, and all that, okay, who are there in every city, every small little city, and providing services to, let's say, some salon, some grocery store, or could be any housing society, and all of that.

That's a very different market altogether, where the growth is very, very high.

Understood. From Tanla or enterprise market perspective, this is now seeing some kind of stability, OTT channel growth.

That is right way to understand?

Yes.

Okay. Sir, last question is about the reason for delay in closure of ValueFirst International, because almost 3 years now.

Can you provide some sense what is leading to this delay?

Dipesh, the reason actually continues to be the same. We're still coordinating with the regulatory authority there to obviously fast-track it as much as possible.

We're also looking at any alternate if it is possible, because it has caused significant delays. We are now also evaluating if there are any other ways to consolidate those businesses, because it's been a long time.

Actually working on both sides in the sense that alternate approach as well as expediting approvals from RBI.

Sir, I'm not very clear. What are the reasons?

You said it is regulatory approval, but let's say where it get stuck?

No, it is stuck at RBI level, because there's some old matters which had to be clarified, etc. There is documentation going on with RBI, set of questions being asked, etc., so that's where we are currently.

Thank you.

Hi. I have a few questions.

The first question is, can you give a sense, because there's never been any deep disclosure on what makes up the platform business, and recently that you guys signed the Indosat, and I think from the last conference call, you mentioned that it's for entire subscriber base, which is $100 million sorry, which is 100 million subscribers. Can you give some sense as to, on a yearly basis, you charge ₹10, ₹20, ₹30 per subscriber, it's easy for us to kind of at least project some kind of growth of the ₹400 crore business that you have on the platform side?

That's my first question. Similarly, if you can just give a broad outline on how much do you collect per use on the banking side for the ATP product?

Those are my questions on that. Then, I know this UAE thing has been taking a while, but when you made the acquisition first, I think I'd asked that question then, I think the answer you gave was that the business when you acquired ValueFirst, the UAE subsidiary was about ₹200 crore of top line and single-digit gross margin.

Can you give us some kind of guidance on where that ₹200 crore has gone, whether it is become ₹300 crore, ₹400 crore? I know that you guys once you acquire someone, you kind of expand the margin, it'll be helpful to understand that low single-digit gross margin, has that gone to double digits or not?

A final question is just a more broader picture at the board level. Do you guys have a sense of when you might be thinking of splitting, and this is not an immediate question, but it's a question I'm asking now, but it's not an immediate event, but are there any thoughts in terms of saying that now that the platform business gross margin is half, it's about 100-plus crore, half of the enterprise business, the Indian markets clearly are not valuing that business, and we have examples of companies listed in the US and Europe which derive a much higher multiple.

Is there any thoughts saying that, okay, once we get to a ₹300 crore or ₹400 crore gross margin business on the platform side, we will look to split this companies and list that in a different market? Those are my questions.

Okay.

Yes. Sharad, are you there?

I'm here, Uday. Thanks.

Yeah. Sharad, let me start with the last question first, we don't have any such plans, but our top focus is to grow platform margins both revenues as fast as we can.

We're also expecting a good growth this year, though I'm not in a position to share anything beyond that, but we are pretty much focused. Opportunities are very big.

As we had the first deployment with Indosat, which is outside India. The platform is doing phenomenal job.

We are investing outside India. In fact, we are recruiting the people outside India first time.

We don't have any intention to get listed outside India right now. That's number one.

When it comes to Indosat, both the platform Wisely AI and Wisely ATP, which is deployed in India, they get paid per user per month, okay? That's how it works.

It's more of subscription model, and they are all long-term deals. If I'm allowed to say, we closed with three banks in India on the ATP.

They're all, I think if I remember correctly, it's all long-term deals, which are about 5-years deals. Same with Indosat, it's a pretty long-term deals, subscription model.

Whenever they add their subscribers, we get paid for that subscriber for that month, so that's how it works.

No, Uday, I understand that. I was just wondering, because there's no breakdown between Trubloq and ATP and this Indosat deal on the ₹400 crore of platform business, I was trying to understand from a modeling perspective, if you could just give some guidance, it's 100 million times ₹10 or ₹20 per subscriber, I can just say, okay, I can do some rough estimation saying 100 million times ₹10 is ₹100 crore per year on Indosat, is anything you can help with that?

Not right now, Sharad. Probably next quarter, next quarter.

Okay. Then on the UAE side, I don't know if you heard that question, but my question

Yes. On the UAE side, as I think Anubhav has given the reasons why it got delayed, but I think we had a very extensive discussion in the board meeting last week, and I think we asked our consultants to look at different options, legal options.

I think we should able to see some light in this quarter, that's what we kind of realized last week. That's number one.

Effectively we should able to close the deal in this quarter, let me comment that. That's number one.

Number two, yes, in terms of the margins, I think our Karix team is helping them to improve the margins, which I think they have grown to almost 20%, 22% gross margin. In terms of top line, I think they're still around ₹150 to ₹170 crore as we speak per annum.

It's question of once we transfer this business to our teams outside India, you see the magic. Let me commit that we will close the ValueFirst International this quarter.

Probably effectively around ₹150 to ₹170 crore top line with around 22% gross margin is going to add to this financial year.

That's great to hear. You guys have basically expanded your margin by almost doubled your margin, sir.

That's great to hear.

Absolutely. Thanks, yeah.

Good afternoon. Sir, there was an article in the newspaper regarding that UPI transactions will do away with SMS notifications.

How much business will be affected because of that development? My second question is more and more bigger companies are going for in-app notifications, as they're cost-effective.

What is the future of our SMS and WhatsApp notifications, because bigger companies are going for in-app notifications? These are my two questions.

Amit, like we mentioned in the earlier question as well, we do a lot of use cases for PSU and other government organizations, but honestly, regulated, I would say there would be an impact, but it's a single-digit percentage of our overall volumes that we do which fall under the strictly regulated kind of messages. There would be alternate methods of doing that communication, and we are obviously enhancing our product portfolio to ensure if there is any other way of authenticating the users, we also kind of participate in that channel.

For example, there would be network APIs, etc., from telcos, which can be used as alternate, so that is on the regulated messages. On in-app notification, honestly, it's not a new way of connecting with the users.

It has been there for many, many years now. The kind of use cases we do on OTT and other SMS channels, it is much more engaging in nature, I think in-app notifications will not have significant impact because it has not had significant impact on the business, we don't think that there'll be any impact there because of in-app notifications.

Because my worry is companies like Blinkit and Swiggy, which are the biggest growing e-commerce companies, they hardly use our system, I suppose. Am I right?

They already use our

system. No,

here I tell you. Firstly, both are our customers: Zomato as well as Swiggy, okay?

They both are our customers, number one. Number two, you see the difference why you may not be getting too much of SMS notifications when you order a food, right, or you order anything.

The reason being, because this is a very, very unique case over here that you pick up your phone, you order food, that time your eyes are very much there, and then and there the deal gets closed, okay, and you get to know that your order is accepted, everything is happened within the app itself, okay? There's nothing much is there, right?

Let's say though still Zomato does a lot of other use cases over there, but if you let's say order from Flipkart,

okay,

the delivery takes about 4 days, 6 days, whatever, you will get a message, "Hey, your order is accepted." That you will see in your app, but next day you will get a message that your order is on the way, be ready for the delivery, here is your OTP, okay, then you get another message, it's delivered.

Then those would be sent via SMS or via WhatsApp, right? Because that time you are not in your app.

No, but Blinkit Blinkit So there's not much usage in Blinkit, I suppose, right? Is that right?

For certain use cases, as I said, for certain cases, the use is less. It's not that it has just come down now, it is always like that.

Let's say even for when you book Ola or Uber cabs, right? Again, you are very much there in the app, and the entire journey is getting completed then and there, okay?

That is a different kind of use case altogether. When you come out of the app, everything is over, right?

You don't need any other confirmations or anything. That is a very different kind of use case altogether.

As far as I understand, that means in the future, we should be more dependent on the smaller enterprises rather than the very big enterprises because they have No,

no, it is not about small or big enterprises. Here I'm talking about very, very few unique cases where you can call about quick commerce, or let's say you talk about those cabs and all.

Otherwise, you look at Flipkart, look at Amazon, you look at Myntra, look at Nykaa, Meesho, right, BigBasket. They all are our customers.

They all are, and their number of transactions are going up, and here our transactions are going up along with them, right?

Okay. My question is how much business are we going to lose because of UPI is doing away with SMS notifications in the future?

UPI doing away SMS notifications, I'm not aware of.

Because it's came in the newspaper just I think in the month of February.

No, no, you must be talking about the silent authentication for OTPs.

No, no, I'm talking about the UPI notification that ₹100 has been sent to you, ₹5,000 has been sent to you, whatever.

That's not changing, I think. Amit, I think it is to do with the value of less than, let's say, we're talking about a particular denomination, if you send less than that money, and currently also there is no UPI notification on SMS.

No, that I think that we discussed two, three conferences back, but there was a news article. I can send it to you next time.

Maybe we can discuss it next time. There was an article that they are doing away with notifications.

No, to add to that, I tell you, a lot of banks, they have their own rules, okay, and RBI is also flexible about it, where certain banks, they say that we will not send notification for less than ₹100. That's going on for multiple years now.

For 2, 3 years back, banks have adopted certain things, right? Some banks say we will not send any notification for less than ₹500.

That's already in force.

How much business we get from UPI? Are you able to disclose that?

Sorry, how much business are we getting from UPI?

Yeah.

No, we will not be able to call out that number separately.

My second question is regarding Indonesian deal. How many telcos can we expect in next 2, 3 years?

Because there are 100 of telecom companies around the world, how much difficult is to crack some more telecom companies around the world?

Amit, the sales cycle is long, but obviously, like you mentioned, the universe is humongous. We are actually running for as much as acquisition of telco clients as possible.

We can't give a number as such, but obviously, the pipeline is huge, and the opportunity is huge, and we want to convert it as

soon as possible. Thank you.

Thank you. Best of luck.

Thank you. Thank you so much.

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