Transcontinental Inc. Class A

Transcontinental Inc. Class A

3.24
EUR
-0.02
(-0.61%)
0.62EPS
1.34P/E
278.41MMarket Cap
Dec 09Next Earn

Q1 FY2026 · Earnings Call TranscriptMarch 10, 2026

Operator

Welcome to the TC Transcontinental first quarter of fiscal year 2026 results conference call. During the presentation, all participants will be in listen-only mode.

Afterwards, we will conduct a question-and-answer session and instructions will be provided at that time. As a reminder, this conference is being recorded today, March 10, 2026.

I would now like to turn the conference over to Mr. Yan Lapointe, Senior Director, Investor Relations and Treasury.

J'aimerais maintenant céder la parole à Yan Lapointe, Directeur, Relations avec les investisseurs et trésorerie. Monsieur Lapointe, please go ahead.

Yan Lapointe

Thank you, Zoelle, and good afternoon, everyone, on the call. Welcome to Transcontinental's first quarter of fiscal 2026 earnings call.

Before we begin, please note that you can find on our website at www.tc.tc our quarterly report, including financial statements and related notes, as well as the slides supporting management's remarks. A replay of this conference call will also be available on our website shortly after the call.

Please note that this conference call is intended for the financial community. Media are in listen-only mode and should contact Laurence Boussiquot, Senior Advisor, Corporate Communications, for more information.

We have with us today our Executive Chair of the Board, Isabelle Marcoux; our next Chief Executive Officer, Sam Bendavid; our President and Chief Executive Officer, Thomas Morin; and our Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer, Donald LeCavalier. As referenced on slide two, some of the financial measures discussed over the course of this conference call are non-IFRS.

You can refer to the MD&A for complete definition and reconciliation of these measures to IFRS. In addition, this conference call might also contain forward-looking statements.

These statements are based on the current expectations of management and information available as of today. Forward-looking statements also involve numerous risks and uncertainties, known and unknown.

The risk, uncertainties, and other factors that could influence actual results are described in the fiscal 2025 annual MD&A and in the latest annual information form. With that, I would like to turn the call over to our Executive Chair of the Board, Isabelle Marcoux.

Isabelle Marcoux

Thank you, Yan, and good afternoon, everyone. First and foremost, let me say how proud I am that we successfully completed the sale of our packaging business.

Earlier today, our board approved a special dividend of $20 per share. This delivers immediate and tangible value to our shareholders.

It reflects the strength of the business we've built over the past 12 years, as well as our courage to act decisively and our determination to keep building the company. With this transaction behind us, we're opening a new chapter for TC Transcontinental, with a clear focus on growing our businesses of retail services and printing, and educational publishing.

To lead the company through this next phase, we announced earlier today senior management changes, effective April 6. This transition is part of a strong succession planning process focused on continuity and growth.

I'm pleased that these changes come from internal promotions of leaders we know well and who have delivered strong results for us over many years. Before introducing our upcoming CEO, Sam Bendavid, I want to take a moment to express my deepest gratitude to Thomas Morin for the role he's played at Transcontinental.

Thomas, in 2019, we were looking for a leader with deep packaging expertise to lead our sector, and we were fortunate to find you. You did such an outstanding job that four years later, the board and I asked you to become CEO, bringing your leadership and operational expertise to the entire organization.

You delivered in both roles, and I'm deeply grateful for everything you've done. Today, with the sale of the packaging business you helped build and elevate, we come full circle.

You can be very proud of your accomplishments in operational and financial performance, in people leadership, and in reinforcing our health and safety culture. On a personal note, Thomas, it's been an immense pleasure working with you every day and a true privilege to have such a great partner.

I will miss you. On behalf of the board and my family, thank you, warmly and sincerely, for everything.

Turning now to Sam. I hired Sam more than 18 years ago, and I've worked closely with him ever since.

I can say this without hesitation: he's a man of action, focused on performance, and an exceptional dealmaker. I know him well, and I trust him fully.

At this stage in our journey, we need a leader with a vision for growth, analytical rigor, and strong execution capability. Given his drive, his track record, and his experience, the board saw in Sam the leader we need to generate profitable growth.

Sam has consistently delivered results, whether in M&A, procurement, leading our coatings business, or executing our recent two-year program to increase profitability and strengthen our financial position. Sam will be supported by Pat Brealy, who will step into the newly created role of COO.

Currently leading our retail services and printing activities, Pat has driven the sector's strategic repositioning. He has also led key innovation initiatives, including the launch of Radar and the deployment of artificial intelligence in the production of content for retail flyers, while improving operational performance.

He's the right leader to support Sam in transforming our organization with discipline and innovation. Patrick Uziel, a respected industry leader with more than 20 years at TC, will continue to lead our educational publishing business as President of TC Media.

Under his leadership, the media sector has more than doubled revenues over the past decade. He's also introduced AI to improve processes and product offerings, reinforcing our leadership in educational publishing across print and digital.

In conclusion, the board is very pleased to promote Sam and Pat, two leaders we know extremely well and who have proven themselves time and again. These appointments reflect our ability to develop and promote strong leaders from within.

This is an important and exciting moment for TC Transcontinental, and I look forward to working with our leadership team as we pursue our next phase of growth. Sam will now say a few words before turning the call over to Thomas and Donald to discuss our Q1 results.

Over to you, Sam.

Sam Bendavid

Thank you for your kind words, Isabelle, and good afternoon, everyone. I strongly believe in the growth potential of our company, and I'm energized by the opportunity to turn that potential into reality.

My objective is clear: through discipline, profitable growth, and targeted acquisitions, as well as smart use of technology, including AI, we will build an innovative, high-performing organization, one that delivers real value to our customers across the retail, education, book, and information sectors. We have a strong balance sheet, businesses with a strong competitive advantages, and an outstanding team that has repeatedly proven its ability to execute.

With the support of Isabelle and the board, I'm excited and confident as I embark on this next chapter with our leadership team. I also feel very fortunate to carry forward the experience and insights I've gained working closely with exceptional leaders, such as Thomas.

Thomas, thank you for all your insights, coaching, and mentoring. I wish you all the best in what's to come.

With that, I'll now turn it over to Thomas, and I look forward to speaking with many of you in the weeks ahead.

Thomas Morin

Thank you, Sam, and thank you, Isabelle. It's truly been an honor to work alongside with you, Isabelle, as well as Donald and so many talented colleagues around the organization.

I have a great confidence in the future of the new TC Transcontinental because of your leadership and because of the exceptional talent I've encountered at every level of the company. I also want to say that the board has made excellent choices.

Having worked closely with Sam and Pat over the years, I can attest to their talent, their high energy, and their readiness to take on these important new roles. I'm convinced they will do a tremendous job, and I wish them every success.

Thank you, Isabelle, again for your wise counsel. I also thank the Marcoux family, the Board of Directors, and the talented employees of TC Transcontinental for their unwavering support.

Let's now turn to our Q1 continuing operations results. In the retail services and printing sector, our recent ISM acquisitions have enabled us to partially offset lower volumes in our traditional books and flyers printing activities.

Profitability was also affected by price concessions. It is important to note that strategic price concessions are an important element of our toolkit to secure multi-year commitments from large customers for our traditional activities.

In our media sector, we saw lower volumes, mainly attributable to the end of the contract related to the electronic tendering system, but also let's keep in mind that this is a seasonal business, as Q3 and Q4 are the important quarters for the media sector. As this is my last call with you, I must say how confident I am to pass it on to Sam two solid sectors, both well advanced in their transformation, and both with potential to grow.

As an illustration of this, our flyers business continue to evolve. In response to a challenging flyer market dynamic, we're preparing to launch Radar in Ontario in the next few months, providing our customers with lower costs and greater reach.

This will set the stage for further deployments, as we see an opportunity for Radar to become a national advertising platform within the next 12 months. Another example is the growth of our in-store marketing business.

As we continue the integration of the three acquisitions we made in 2025 that have reinforced our geographical footprint and expanded our offering, we're expecting to close yet another ISM acquisition soon within Q2. We maintain, of course, an active pipeline for further other opportunities.

In conclusion, I'm confident in our growth plans, and I believe that the new TC has a bright future ahead. On this, I will pass it over to you, Donald.

Donald LeCavalier

Thank you, Thomas. It's been a real pleasure to work with you over the last six years, and I wish you the best.

To you, Sam, congratulation on your new role. I'm confident you'll do a great job.

Moving to slide five of the earnings call presentation. For the first quarter of fiscal 2026, we reported a 2.3% increase in revenues from continuing operations versus the same quarter last year.

This growth comes from acquisitions in our in-store marketing activities and a positive exchange rate impact. The growth was partially offset by lower volume and price concessions in our retail services and printing sector.

Regarding profitability, consolidated adjusted EBITDA declined $7.2 million or 17.9% to $33.1 million. The decline was mainly due to lower volume and price concessions in the retail services and printing sector, partially offset by recent acquisitions and favorable exchange rate.

The increase in our share price also contributed to higher incentive compensation expenses. Net financial expenses decreased by $0.4 million to $9.3 million, mainly due to a lower debt level following strong cash flow generation in the last 12 months.

This was partially offset by lower interest income we earned last year from the proceeds of the sale of our industrial packaging activities before we declare a special dividend in April last year. Adjusted income tax decreased by $4 million to $1.5 million and represented an effective rate of 18.3%.

This led to adjusted earnings per share from continuing operations of $0.08, compared to $0.10 in Q1 last year. While our results after Q1 are lower than last year, we remain confident in our outlook.

We expect adjusted EBITDA to be below last year in the second quarter before recovering in the second half of the year as we start seeing the positive impact of significant cost reductions and profit improvement initiatives. Now turning to cash flow.

As expected and in line with normal seasonality, we saw negative working capital in the first quarter of 2026. At $10.8 million, working capital usage was, however, much better than thirty than the $36.4 million we had in Q1 last year.

Improvement was mainly due to lower inventory. Our CapEx, at $11.9 million, was in line with last year and on target to be around our guidance of $55 to $60 million for the full year.

Our adjusted net ratio was at 1.69 times at the end of the first quarter of fiscal 2026, compared to 1.59 times three months ago. While we expect to generate strong operating cash flows in the rest of the year, our adjusted net debt ratio is expected to increase over the next two quarters before improving in the fourth quarter of fiscal year 2026.

As for the monetization of real estate, we expect to close the sale of one building in the next few months. Our financial position is solid.

The board has approved today to return most of the proceeds from the sale of our packaging business to shareholders with a special dividend cash distribution of $20 per share. With the sale of our packaging business, we also sign a revised credit agreement with our banks, securing the funds to repay our $250 million notes that are due in July 2026.

The new agreement will also provide the flexibility to pursue our growth strategy. On that note, we will now proceed with the question period.

Merci, mesdames et messieurs, nous allons maintenant procéder à la période de questions et réponses. Si vous avez une question, veuillez appuyer sur les touches étoile suivi du un sur votre téléphone à clavier.

Une tonalité se fera entendre confirmant votre demande. Les questions seront prises dans l'ordre qu'elles ont été acheminées.

Veuillez également vous assurer de décrocher le récepteur de votre appareil téléphonique si vous utilisez la fonction mains libres avant d'appuyer sur les touches. Un moment, s'il vous plaît, pour la première question.

Operator

Thank you. One moment, please.

Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the question-and-answer session. If you have a question, please press star followed by the one on your touch-tone phone.

You will hear a tone acknowledging your request. Your questions will be pulled in the order they are received.

Please ensure you lift the handset before you are using a speakerphone before pressing any keys. One moment, please, for your first question.

La première question vient de Sean Steuart avec TD Cowen. Your first question comes from Sean Stewart with TD Cowen.

Your line is now open.

Sean Stewart

Thanks. Good afternoon, everyone.

Congratulations to Thomas, Sam, and Pat. I have a couple of questions.

I guess just trying to dial in on the guidance that you would expect that adjusted net debt ratios are going to increase the next couple of quarters before starting to improve in fiscal Q4. Can you give us a bit of perspective on what's feeding into that expectation, and then I imagine a part of this is the back-end-weighted cost savings coming through later in the year?

Can you give some perspective on the dollar magnitude there and expected follow-through into 2027?

Donald LeCavalier

You're right. Actually, the cost-saving not only will help on the debt-to-EBITDA ratio at the end of the quarter, but this is why also we're positive regarding maintaining EBITDA compared to last year.

That's one thing. Second thing is when we gave guidance for Q2 and Q3, we include the possible acquisition that Thomas mentioned a bit earlier.

There's some timing in payments, and I will say, lastly, the fourth quarter is always a very strong quarter for us in terms of EBITDA and free cash flow. Those are the key elements.

Sean Stewart

Thanks for that. You touched on an expectation that there'll be one property sale in the near term.

Any updated thoughts on I believe there's at least two properties that you had line of sight on, and maybe some more behind that. Context on expected proceeds and timing of additional real estate sales?

Donald LeCavalier

The one that's close in the pipeline, and hopefully that will close in the next few months, is north of $30 million of value. That's one of the big one that we have in the pipeline.

I will say, for the rest of market, it's still a market, depending of the region where you are, I would say it's kind of slow, and it will depend also what's going on in a current global economy. We're confident at least to close this one in fiscal year, and we'll see the timing for the other ones.

We have two other ones in the pipeline also, a small one in the US and one in south of Montreal.

Sean Stewart

Okay. Just one last question from me.

Your credit rating was downgraded yesterday. Any thoughts on how that changes your overall cost of capital, perspective on, I guess, higher borrowing costs going forward?

Donald LeCavalier

Not really, because the new financing, as I mentioned in my opening comment, that we put in place will be based more on debt-to-EBITDA ratio. That current rating pricing will be close to the pricing we had regarding BBB- or investment grade.

As far as the investment grade for us, it's more a question of the size of the business, because the balance sheet, as you can see, will be very solid. It's more a question of the size of the business regarding the decision by the agency.

Sean Stewart

Thanks very much for all of that. I'll get back in the queue.

La prochaine question vient de Nikolay Goroupitch avec CIBC Capital Markets.

Operator

Your next question comes from Nikolai Goroupitch with CIBC Capital Markets. Your line is now open.

Nikolai Goroupitch

Hi. Could you elaborate more on the price concessions you took, how these developments unfolded, and potentially quantify the impact on revenue growth as well?

Donald LeCavalier

The price concession we took in the first quarter is, I would say, it's north of $1 million. It's in that region.

Over annually, it's about $4 million. This is something that when we do important renewal that we had in the past, and we always find ways in the coming quarters to, with our synergies or efficiencies, to compensate for that.

Since is the beginning of new contracts, it did hit us directly in the P&L for this quarter.

Nikolai Goroupitch

I see. Thanks.

Could you also provide some more detail on the size of the new acquisition you're expecting to close, and how do you expect the rest of the year to shape up on the M&A front?

Donald LeCavalier

We're confident, as we said in the comment, we're pretty much advanced on discussion. Obviously, we need to close the transaction.

In terms of size, we won't disclose any amount, but you can expect that it is in the area we did for this group over the last few years. Not a big one compared to what we're doing in packaging, but very important for us, and that will create a lot of good synergies on cost side and commercial side also.

Nikolai Goroupitch

Great. I see.

Thank you. I'll turn it over.

La prochaine question vient de

Operator

Adam Shine avec National Bank. Your next question comes from Adam Shine with National Bank.

Your line is now open.

Adam Shine

Thanks a lot. Sam, congratulations, and, of course, Thomas, it was wonderful interacting with you, and I wish you all the best.

Maybe we just start in terms of the Q1 disclosure around ISM timing, where the volumes were a little bit lighter in the Q1. Could you just maybe speak to that both in terms of quantum and what was the driver of that?

Donald LeCavalier

Regarding ISM, that was for us in Q1. We were expecting when we disclose at the end of fiscal year on the retail side, because of the current condition in Ontario and the rest of Canada will be tough.

ISM, we were expecting a little bit better in this quarter, but it's mostly timing. Having said that, if you look at the impact of pure growth in the quarter, this is something we disclosed in our financial notes, it's about 5% decline.

We still expect that overall in fiscal 2026, who will have positive organic growth excluding acquisition for that group. It's mostly because of timing of some contract renewal or some stores that delay some of the improvement they were supposed to make in first quarter.

We're still very confident for rest of the year.

Adam Shine

No, I appreciate that. Then obviously, interesting development in regards to Radar going into Ontario.

I didn't think that was going to happen until a year or two from now. Is that based on some negotiation with Torstar that allows this to happen, or is there something different going on?

Donald LeCavalier

Obviously, they're an important partner of us, anything we will do in Ontario and rest of Canada will be in discussion, negotiation and collaboration with them. Regarding the timing, we say that we will do more in Ontario.

The timing of where we will be doing all Ontario, the rest of Canada is still not decided, but we will certainly do some tests in the coming quarter. It's important for us to stabilize this business, and Radar is a great solution for us regarding that.

Adam Shine

Just to be clear, if Torstar is doing flyers and distributing it in their territory for you, are you looking to offer Radar as sort of a complementary alternative solution to replace those flyers, or it comes in as an alternative solution for customers to decide upon?

Donald LeCavalier

First, all flyers are done by us. It's just we're talking about distribution.

What you might see in coming months is some region might have a distribution of Radar, but they will still be some flyer that might be done directly by Canada Post. What we're saying is we will do in some region in Ontario some test regarding Radar in coming months in Ontario, yeah.

Adam Shine

All right, no, I appreciate that. Maybe, given that Isabelle's on the line, hi, Isabelle.

Just a quick question in terms of the nature of the new sort of structure. Just having a COO, is that something where we kind of look upon Patrick as pseudo-President, Sam as CEO, although he does have both titles, or will get both titles?

Or do we look upon this as something whereby there's maybe more in play regarding COO in regards to a future transitionary dynamic? Just curious.

Isabelle Marcoux

No. No, you're way ahead.

This is

Adam Shine

not

Isabelle Marcoux

upcoming transition. I think you should look at Sam as a very strong, growth-oriented person, dealmaker.

He's done M&A for the company for the past 18 years. You should look at Patrick Brealy as a true operator, innovator, knowing print so well.

A great team with both of them. I think we have 1 + 1 is 2.5.

Adam Shine

I appreciate that. Thank you.

I'll queue up again. La prochaine question vient de

Operator

Stephen MacLeod avec BMO Capital Markets. Your next question comes from Stephen MacLeod with BMO Capital Markets.

Your line is now open.

Stephen MacLeod

Thank you. Good evening, everyone.

Thomas, congratulations on your tenure, and congrats to Sam and Patrick as well. Just wanted to touch on a couple of things.

Just firstly with respect to ISM, and you sort of touched upon a pending transaction or one that's in advanced discussions. I was just wondering if you can just remind us kind of the strategy with ISM M&A.

Is it about filling in geographic coverage, or is it more about broadening your customer base, or is it a little bit of both?

Donald LeCavalier

It's a bit of both. We already moving in Western Canada with our own platform on the retail side, we're active over there.

It's adding products, but also it will be geographical. We see many opportunities in the next few years to grow that business.

Yes. To expand offering to our own clients also.

Stephen MacLeod

Okay. That's

Donald LeCavalier

Okay, that's

Stephen MacLeod

Sorry, go ahead.

Thomas Morin

No, I was insisting on Donald's message. It is really both, the reach, geographical, and the product offering,

Donald LeCavalier

yeah,

Thomas Morin

at the same time.

Stephen MacLeod

That's helpful. When you think about both of those factors, geographic and product, are there any notable geographies or products where you're under-represented?

Donald LeCavalier

In terms of product, it's a very large market, we can go in a lot of detail. We have a very good position in the product that we deliver for main clients right now.

In terms of regional, geographical, we're solid in Quebec and Ontario. We have some operation on Western Canada, but I think we have the right balance regarding where the business is done, actually.

Thomas Morin

We were under-represented in Quebec. We've acquired the businesses in Quebec to balance, indeed, the footprint between Ontario and Quebec.

Now we're pretty okay.

Donald LeCavalier

Yeah.

Stephen MacLeod

That's great. Thank you.

Then I just wanted to clarify, Donald, did you say that ISM was down 5% in Q1?

Donald LeCavalier

Yes. Okay.

Perfect. Thank you.

Then

Stephen MacLeod

maybe just turning to leverage, is it still fair to assume that your net debt to EBITDA target exiting 2026 is in that 1.6, 1.7 times range?

Donald LeCavalier

First, we don't have a target. This is some

Stephen MacLeod

target

Donald LeCavalier

that when we're not doing acquisition, it was the case before. Even though the rating is not there anymore, we will remain very prudent with the balance sheet.

We have a solid balance sheet, and the idea is to maintain it, to give us the flexibility to do M&A. I would say that we don't have a target, but right now we can be in a zone of 1.70 to 2, depending of timing of acquisition.

Other than acquisition, we should be under 2 and going very rapidly close to 1, because this business, our business, will manage a lot of free cash flow in the coming years. If there's no acquisition, we should be in a very good position.

Stephen MacLeod

That's very helpful. Then maybe just finally, if you're able to give some color around it, can you give some guidance or color on what the impact, what the magnitude of the corporate cost savings might be in the back half of the year?

Donald LeCavalier

We're working on it, but it depend also on the TSA we have with ProAmpac right now, because we will work with them. We said over the next two years is to save roughly $30 million of cost of corporate.

The timing still need to be established regarding exactly when we will be able to do some movement. It will be some of it will come in the second half, and some of it will be mostly next year for full run rate.

Stephen MacLeod

That's great. Thanks so much for the color, guys.

Appreciate it. La prochaine question vient de Maher Yaghi avec Scotiabank.

Operator

Your next question comes from Maher Yaghi with Scotiabank. Your line is now open.

Maher Yaghi

Bonjour. Merci d'avoir pris ma question.

Just wanted to ask a question. Putting aside the incentive compensation cost increase, just on the retail and services and printing, I was trying to figure out the drop in organic revenue of $6.7 million came with a drop of $5 million approximately on EBITDA side.

Seems pretty high. You mentioned earlier that pricing was about $1 million, I was trying to figure out why the EBITDA decrease was so elevated compared to the revenue drop.

Thank you.

Donald LeCavalier

Yeah. You're right.

For sure, price concession north of $1 million had an impact. Also where we had some decrease is in the distribution of flyers in the rest of Canada, and you know that this is very high margin for us.

That had an impact for sure, also. I would say that that's the mix that didn't help us on the EBITDA side versus what we lost on the sales side.

Maher Yaghi

Is that running through the P&L completely now, or there could be an additional step-down function in Q2 on that side?

Donald LeCavalier

When you say step-down function, what do you mean by

Maher Yaghi

The lower profitability from the lower distribution that you have in the rest of Canada, is that running through, or there are additional geographies that will be affected in Q2 that have not been affected yet?

Donald LeCavalier

What we said, and that's what I said in my opening comments, we remain confident for the full year to be stable versus last year, but the impact you've seen in the first quarter should be roughly the same in the second quarter, because the saving program we put in place and some other action we're taking will start to kick more in the second half of the year.

Maher Yaghi

Okay. Looking back on the revenue line, you mentioned you're launching Radar in the rest of the country.

How should we think about the revenue trajectory in the second half if you're launching that process in Q2?

Donald LeCavalier

Hard to say for the moment, because we don't know at which speed the progress will come. As we said, when we had this transition for Quebec and also a little bit of BC, for sure top line will go down, but the most important for us is to maintain the EBITDA.

It's really hard to say what will be the impact of percentage. It depends of the timing.

The reason, to be clear, that the top line will be affected is that we're using less paper, therefore it does have an impact, but the VA and the EBITDA is not affected, and we saw the impact in Quebec. It's hard for us to say right now, because it depends, as again, at the speed the progress will go, but it will affect the top line, for sure.

It will stabilize the EBITDA, and this is the most important thing for that part of the business.

Maher Yaghi

Yeah. No, I totally get that.

Maybe just if you can give us the total revenue that you currently generate that could eventually transition to Radar for the rest of Canada, just to get an understanding of how much we're talking about?

Donald LeCavalier

This is something that Yan can give you some more colors offline.

Maher Yaghi

Great. Just on the leverage side, there's a lot of wacky ratios going on now that you still haven't cycled through the P&L and you're on a pro forma basis.

Let's say a year from now, Donald, where would you like that leverage to land?

Donald LeCavalier

Again, it depends of the timing of acquisition. As Sam mentioned in his comment, we're confident to grow the business on the ISM, therefore we will be active on acquisition.

We have a business that will generate a lot of free cash flow. This is business I mentioned that will need maybe $50, $55 million of CapEx.

We don't have a target for that. Obviously, the approach remained the same for us to be prudent regarding the balance sheet, and we were confident regarding our balance sheet as we speak right now.

We will have room for acquisition, but if there's no acquisition, we don't mind to get to a position of one time debt to EBITDA, but it's not a target for us. The target for us is to stabilize the business on the flyer side and to grow the business on the ISM, obviously organic growth and acquisition.

Maher Yaghi

This is

Donald LeCavalier

more the way we look at it while maintaining a strong balance sheet.

Maher Yaghi

Okay. Maybe I'll ask it a different way.

Assuming the M&A transactions are available to you and everything, where do you think the business could run long term in terms of leverage? What level would you be comfortable taking the leverage up to?

That's what I'm trying to figure out.

Donald LeCavalier

It's I would say honestly it's a little bit of a hypothetical question. Like when we did in the past Coveris, we were comfortable to went up as far as 3.50 because we were strongly confident in our ability to get back under two, and that's what we did.

That's what we delivered. Again, we don't see, and this is something we mentioned earlier, any big acquisition coming in the ISM, I don't see any big acquisition that will push us above three.

It's like I said, we think we should be in a range of 1.50 to 2, 2.50 in the next months. If there's no acquisition, we don't mind to be close to one time debt to EBITDA.

When we bought Coveris, last comment on that one, we had almost no debt on the balance sheet and we were quite happy about that.

Maher Yaghi

Okay. Merci beaucoup.

C'est bon.

Donald LeCavalier

Merci. Mesdames et messieurs, encore une fois, si vous avez des questions supplémentaires, veuillez s'il vous plaît appuyer sur les touches étoile un.

Si vous utilisez la fonction mains libres, veuillez décrocher le récepteur avant d'appuyer sur les touches.

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, if there are any additional questions at this time, please press star followed by the one. As a reminder, if you are using a speakerphone, please lift the handset before pressing any keys.

La prochaine question vient de Sebastian van Berkom avec Van Berkom and Associates. The next question comes from Sebastian van Berkom with Van Berkom and Associates.

Your line is now open.

Sebastian van Berkom

Thank you very much for taking my call. Isabelle, I know you're on the line, hello again to you.

I have two simple questions. I just arrived, I was a little late in kicking into the conference call.

I guess number one, I would like to know, what is the exact date of the $20 share distribution?

Isabelle Marcoux

We will be paying out the dividend on the 20th of March, not next Friday.

Sebastian van Berkom

March?

Isabelle Marcoux

20th.

Sebastian van Berkom

March 20th?

Isabelle Marcoux

Exactly.

Sebastian van Berkom

Okay. Number two, given that you sold a substantial part or all of the packaging business, the stub, or remaining Transcontinental, can you, Isabelle, give us some kind of a sense of what kind of a company this is going to become in the next five years?

Because at the moment, the market seems to say that it's only worth about $3 after this distribution, and it means a very, very low multiple. For me, it's just there's something wrong with this picture.

I was wondering if you could give us some clarification.

Isabelle Marcoux

Sure looks like a great buy right now.

Sebastian van Berkom

The stub isn't trading yet, but it probably will trade soon after the March 20th distribution. I'm just trying to figure that out.

It seems to be there's something wrong with the picture and that it seems to be awfully cheap, the remaining part of the business. Is the remaining part of the business so bad that it's being traded at such a low price?

Isabelle Marcoux

We think it's a good business. It's a business with great cash flows.

It's a business that's poised for growth. We see growth opportunities in the ISM sector, and we see growth opportunities in the educational

Sebastian van Berkom

Is this a business that you expect to grow top line at 10% a year or 15% a year? What kind of order of magnitude are we talking over the next five years?

Isabelle Marcoux

We'll surely look to grow it internally and through acquisitions. We have already started doing that with three acquisitions under our belt only in the last year in the ISM business.

Sebastian van Berkom

What kind of order of magnitude are you talking, Isabelle? Are we talking a 15% grower or a 10% grower?

Where are we in next five years?

Donald LeCavalier

I think this is not something that we will disclose today. What we have said in the past is that now with the sale of packaging over the last two years, we were able to stabilize the retail and service printing business.

We have growed in the media business. Today for us, and by saying that we're confident to, again, stabilize the EBITDA business, we're putting this business for growth in the next few years, because the portion that's growing is getting bigger and bigger, which is the ISM and even the education side of the business.

We're confident to grow the business organically over the years and then add it over acquisition, but we won't disclose any organic plan or acquisition plan for the next five years.

Sebastian van Berkom

Oh no, why not? Many companies do.

Donald LeCavalier

This is not our approach, we're not going to disclose that.

Sebastian van Berkom

Thank you very much.

Donald LeCavalier

All right. Thank you, sir.

Il semble ne plus y avoir de questions, Monsieur Lapointe.

Operator

There are no further questions at this time.

Yan Lapointe

Before closing the call, I'd like to turn it over to Thomas for a few words.

Thomas Morin

Thank you. Thank you, Yan, and in closing, I'd like to thank you all participants to these quarterly calls, and especially to you financial analysts on the line.

I will say that your questions were always thoughtful and well-received, and today is no difference, obviously, as you could all hear. It's been a pleasure getting to know you over the past three years, and I'd like to thank you all today.

Thank you very much. Mesdames et messieurs, ceci termine l'appel conférence pour aujourd'hui.

Merci de votre participation. Vous pouvez maintenant raccrocher.

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes the conference call for today. Thank you for participating.

Please disconnect your lines.