Globe Life Inc.

Globe Life Inc.

147.10
EUR
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11.95BMarket Cap
Feb 10Next Earn

Q3 FY2026 · Earnings Call TranscriptOctober 22, 2026

Operator

Hello and welcome to Globe Life Inc.' s third quarter earnings release call.

My name is Regina, and I will be your coordinator for today's event. Please note this call is being recorded.

After the speakers' remarks, there will be a question-and-answer session. If you'd like to ask a question during that time, simply press star then the number 1 on your telephone keypad.

To withdraw your question, press star 1 again. I will now hand you over to your host, Stephen Mota, Vice President of Investor Relations, to begin today's conference.

Please go ahead.

Stephen Mota

Thank you. Good morning, everyone.

Joining the call today are Frank Svoboda and Matt Darden, our Co-Chief Executive Officers; Tom Kalmbach, our Chief Financial Officer; Mike Majors, our Chief Strategy Officer; and Brian Mitchell, our General Counsel. Some of our comments or answers to your questions may contain forward-looking statements that are provided for general guidance purposes only.

Accordingly, please refer to our earnings release, 2025 10-K, and any subsequent Forms 10-Q on file with the SEC. Some of our comments may also contain non-GAAP measures.

Please see our earnings release and website discussion of these terms and reconciliations to GAAP measures. I will now turn the call over to Frank.

Frank Svoboda

Thank you, Stephen, and good morning, everyone. In the third quarter, net income was $361 million or $4.62 per share, a decrease of 2% over $4.73 per share a year ago.

Net operating income for the quarter was $379 million or $4.84 per share, an increase of 1% over $4.81 per share a year ago. As a reminder, both net income and net operating income are impacted in the third quarter of each year by the annual updating of our assumptions utilized in establishing our policy obligations.

As was the case in 2025, we recorded a remeasurement gain related to assumption updates this quarter, reflecting our positive outlook for future policy obligations, as our actual claims experience continues to be favorable as compared to those long-term assumptions. In addition, underwriting results this quarter at United American General Agency Division were adversely impacted by a process change at CMS, the government agency that administers Medicare supplement claims, and high-severity claims at Every, the developing group health business that is included in United American's results.

Matt and Tom will talk more about these items in their comments. On a GAAP-reported basis, return on equity through September 30th is 19.7%, and book value per share is $85.35, up 23% from a year ago.

Excluding accumulated other comprehensive income, or AOCI, return on equity is 15.9%, and book value per share as of September 30th is $103.62, up 11% from a year ago. Now on our insurance operations.

Total premium revenue in the third quarter grew 7% over the year-ago quarter. For the full year, we expect total premium revenue growth to be around 6.5%.

Life premium revenue for the third quarter increased 2% from the year-ago quarter to $865 million. For the full year, we expect life premium revenue to grow between 2.5% and 2.75%, driven by strong premium growth in our American Income and Liberty National divisions.

Life underwriting margin was $458 million, down 5% from a year ago, primarily due to fluctuations in the assumption updates related to LDTI. Excluding the impact of the assumption updates, life underwriting margin would have increased by approximately 3%.

We anticipate life underwriting margin as a percent of premium to be between 44% and 45% for the full year 2026. In health insurance, premium revenue grew 16% to $447 million, and health underwriting margin was up 7% to $116 million.

For the full year, we expect health premium revenue to grow around 15%, and underwriting margin to grow in the range of 4% to 4.5%. The strong premium growth is due to premium rate increases on our Medicare supplement business as well as strong sales in both our United American and Family Heritage divisions.

We anticipate health underwriting margin as a percent of premium to be in the range of 22% to 24% for the full year. Administrative expenses were $95 million for the quarter, an increase of 6% over the third quarter of 2025.

As a percent of premium, administrative expenses were 7.3%. For the full year, we expect administrative expenses to stay at approximately 7.3% of premium, consistent with 2025.

As we mentioned on the last call, we believe that expanding AI use across the company will allow us over time to grow our expenses at a rate lower than our revenue growth, given the high transaction volumes inherent in our business. As such, we expect this ratio to be the same or slightly lower in 2027 and intend to reduce it over time.

Finally, we are very pleased that we have received reciprocal jurisdiction approvals from our regulators, allowing us to continue with our business plan to transform how we support our growth and to provide added financial flexibility and strength at the parent by providing an additional source of dividend income. Tom will provide more of an update in his comments.

I will now turn the call over to Matt for his comments on the third quarter marketing operations.

Matt Darden

Thank you, Frank. Now I'll discuss the trends at each of our distributions and will start with our exclusive agencies.

At American Income Life, the life premiums were up 4% over the year-ago quarter to $470 million, and the life underwriting margin was up 3% to $268 million. Net life sales were $97 million, flat compared to the year-ago quarter, as increased productivity offset a 7% decline in agent count from a year ago.

The average producing agent count for the third quarter was 11,331, which was essentially flat compared to the second quarter of this year. On our last call, we discussed some compensation adjustments that were implemented at the beginning of the second quarter.

These adjustments have helped improve agent productivity and stabilize agent count, as the agent count has been relatively flat over the past couple of quarters. Agent compensation design is inherently a complex, dynamic process, as it involves human behavior, and sometimes the behavioral changes do not occur as quickly as we'd like.

We are rolling out further structural compensation changes later this year to help drive growth in sales, recruiting, and retention. For the full year 2027, we expect mid- to high single-digit sales growth, and I'm confident that we will increase sales growth for this division as the fundamental conditions necessary for agency growth remain in place.

If anything, the current economic environment enhances our value proposition to individuals looking for a better opportunity, the ability to be your own boss, set your own schedule, and create financial security. At Liberty National, the life premiums were up 4% over the year-ago quarter to $102 million, while the life underwriting margin was down 27% to $51 million.

The decline was due primarily to fluctuations in LDTI assumption updates, as the annual assumption update declined from $35 million in the year-ago quarter to only $14 million this quarter. Absent the large decline in assumption update, Liberty's life underwriting margin would have been up 5%, and net life sales were $27 million, up 7% from a year-ago quarter, due primarily to agent count growth.

Net health sales were $7 million, down 13% from the year-ago quarter. As we mentioned last quarter, we have implemented changes to the sales presentation to place additional emphasis on health sales.

We expect this to help drive significant growth in health sales going forward. The average producing agent count for the third quarter was 4,187, up 9% from a year ago, and I continue to be pleased with the agent count growth, and I'm confident that this will drive strong sales growth going forward.

At Family Heritage, health premiums increased 8% over the year-ago quarter to $129 million, and the health underwriting margin increased 12% to $57 million. Net health sales were up 5% to $35 million, and it's primarily driven by increased productivity.

The average producing agent count for the third quarter was 1,565, up 1% from a year ago. Agency middle management counts rose for the third quarter in a row, and we are continuing to see improvement in agent retention.

These results reinforce our optimism regarding the long-term growth potential at Family Heritage. Now, in our direct-to-consumer division, the life premiums were down 1% over the year-ago quarter to $243 million, and the life underwriting margin declined 1% to $113 million.

Net life sales were $24 million, down 12% from the year-ago quarter. As we discussed during the last call, our direct-to-consumer channel is in a transition period due to a shift in digital advertising, including traditional paid search volume.

AI-powered search and consumer behavior are impacting digital marketing for all goods and services, including life insurance. This shift has impacted our recent sales results generated by our digital channels.

However, during the second half of the third quarter, we are seeing some encouraging improvement in our inquiry rates, supported by several initiatives, including AI-enabled advertising. We continue our efforts to adapt to this change and position digital content to be authoritative, visible, and easily interpreted by AI assistants.

I am confident that DTC will successfully make this transition as we continue to meet the consumer where they want to be met. In addition, as we have discussed before, the value of this division extends well beyond DTC sales, and this is due to the support it provides to our agencies.

We still anticipate that we will meet agency demands by generating approximately 1 million leads this year. Now onto United American General Agency, where here the health premiums increased 29% over the year-ago quarter to $219 million.

Overall, I'm pleased with the routine operations at United American. Now, while the health underwriting margin was negative $6 million compared to a margin of $16 million from the year-ago quarter, this loss was driven by the items Frank mentioned earlier.

The processing delay at CMS resulted in nearly $7 million of excess Medicare supplement claims paid during the current quarter, but were related to prior periods. In addition, we experienced an unusually high number of high-severity claims at Every.

For the quarter, Every realized an underwriting loss of nearly $16 million. As a reminder, Every is included in the United American division, as they market group health insurance through brokers.

Every has begun to generate strong sales activity, but as a startup, they do not yet have the scale to meet our target margins. Excluding these two items, United American's health underwriting margin would have been a positive $16 million, or approximately 7% of premium.

We anticipate as they continue to grow, they will ultimately contribute to UA's health margins as they achieve scale and generate more stable results. That being said, we are taking steps to improve margins, including pricing adjustments.

Net health sales were $48 million, a 95% increase over the year-ago quarter. Sales continue to be very strong in the Medicare supplement business, due primarily to tailwinds from the high volume of people turning 65, the movement of Medicare beneficiaries from Medicare Advantage to Medicare supplement, and the rate increases implemented during the second quarter.

Once again, I would note that we do not market Medicare Advantage plans. Now I'd like to discuss projections, and this is based on our recent trends and the experience with our business.

We expect the average producing agent count for the full year 2026 to be as follows: at American Income, a decrease of around 5%; Liberty National, an increase of around 9%; and Family Heritage, an increase of around 5%. Net life sales for the full year 2026 are expected to be as follows: at American Income, approximately flat; at Liberty National, an increase of around 10%; and direct-to-consumer, a decrease of around 9%.

Net health sales for the full year 2026 are expected to be as follows: for Liberty National, a decrease of around 7%; Family Heritage, an increase of approximately 10%; and United American, an increase of around 45%. Now moving on to projections for 2027.

At the midpoint of our guidance, we expect sales growth for the full year to be as follows: for net life sales, as I mentioned earlier, at American Income, we expect mid- to high single-digit growth; at Liberty National, low double-digit growth; and at direct-to-consumer, low single-digit growth. For net health sales, Liberty National and Family Heritage, we expect low double-digit growth, and at United American, high single-digit growth.

I will now turn the call back to Frank.

Frank Svoboda

Thanks, Matt. We will now turn to the investment operations.

Excess investment income, which we define as net investment income less required interest, was $38 million, up 3% from the year-ago quarter. Net investment income was $296 million, up 3%, and average invested assets were also up 3% from the year-ago quarter.

Required interest and average policy liabilities both grew approximately 4% over the year-ago quarter. For the full year, we expect net investment income to grow around 4.5%, and required interest to grow around 3.5%, resulting in excess investment income growth of 10% to 11%.

Looking forward to 2027, we anticipate net investment income will grow in the range of 2.5% to 3.5%, while required interest will grow in the range of 3.5% to 4%. Now regarding our investment yield.

In the third quarter, we invested $833 million in fixed maturities, primarily in the industrial and financial sectors. These investments were at an average yield of 6.4%, an average rating of A, and an average life of 35 years.

We also invested $94 million in commercial mortgage loans and other long-term investments with debt-like characteristics. These non-fixed maturity investments are expected to produce additional cash yield over our fixed maturity investments, while still being in line with our overall conservative investment philosophy.

In the third quarter, the yield earned on our total long-term invested assets, which includes our fixed maturities, commercial mortgage loans, and other long-term non-fixed maturity investments, was 5.52%, up from 5.46% in the third quarter of 2025. The fixed maturity portfolio earned yield was 5.33% in the current quarter, compared to 5.26% a year ago.

We expect the average yield earned on our total long-term investments will be approximately 5.51% for the full year 2026, and between 5.50% and 5.55% for the full year 2027. For the fixed maturity portfolio, we anticipate the earned yield will be approximately 5.33% for 2026, and around 5.35% for 2027.

While we do own some floating rate investments, they are well matched with floating rate liabilities on the balance sheet. As such, we don't expect changes in short-term rates to have a meaningful impact on our net income.

Now regarding our investment portfolio. Invested assets are $22.3 billion, including $19.6 billion of fixed maturities at amortized cost.

Of the fixed maturities, $19 billion are investment grade with an average rating of A-. Overall, the total fixed maturity portfolio is rated A-, same as a year ago.

Of our total investment portfolio, only 2% is in senior direct lending and asset-based financing combined, and another approximately 1% is in traditional private placements. Our fixed maturity investment portfolio has a net unrealized loss position of $2.7 billion due to the current market rates being higher than the book yield on our holdings.

As we have historically noted, we are not concerned by the unrealized loss position, as it is mostly interest rate driven and currently relates mostly to bonds with maturities that extend beyond 10 years. We have the intent and, more importantly, the ability to hold our investments to maturity.

Bonds rated BBB comprise 39% of the fixed maturity portfolio, compared to 43% from the year-ago quarter. The percentage is at its lowest level since 2002.

As we have discussed on prior calls, the BBB securities we acquire have historically provided the best risk-adjusted, capital-adjusted returns, due in part to our ability to hold securities to maturity regardless of fluctuations in interest rates or equity markets. That said, our allocation of BBB bonds has declined over the past several years, as we have found better risk-adjusted, capital-adjusted value in higher-rated bonds, given the narrowing of corporate spreads.

While the concentration of our BBB bonds might still be higher than some of our peers, remember that we have little or no exposure to other higher-risk assets. Below-investment-grade bonds remain near historical lows at $573 million, compared to $455 million a year ago.

The percentage of below-investment-grade bonds to total fixed maturities is just 2.9%, similar with year-end 2025. The total exposure to both BBB and below-investment-grade securities as a percentage of our total equity, excluding AOCI, is at its lowest level in over 25 years.

Due to the long duration of our fixed maturity liabilities, we predominantly invest in long-dated assets. As such, a critical and foundational part of our investment philosophy is to invest in entities that can survive through multiple economic cycles.

We are well-positioned to withstand an economic downturn should one occur, due to holding historically low percentages of invested assets in BBB and below-investment-grade bonds as a percentage of equity. In addition, we have very strong underwriting profits and long-dated liabilities, we will not be forced to sell bonds in order to pay claims.

With respect to our anticipated investment acquisitions for the remainder of the year, at the midpoint of our guidance, we assume investment of approximately $175 million to $200 million in fixed maturities at an average yield between 6.4% and 6.5%. Including the expected investments in commercial mortgage loans and other long-term investments with debt-like characteristics, we expect to invest approximately $250 million to $300 million across all asset classes at an average yield of 6.75% to 7%.

Now I will turn the call over to Tom for his comments on capital and liquidity.

Tom Kalmbach

Thanks, Frank. First, I'll spend a few minutes discussing our available liquidity, share repurchase program, and capital position.

The parent ended the quarter with liquid assets of approximately $110 million. We anticipate ending the year with liquid assets near the top end of our targeted range of $50 million to $60 million.

During the quarter, the company repurchased approximately 1.1 million shares of Globe Life Inc. common stock for a total cost of $185 million at an average share price of $175.61.

Including shareholder dividend payments of $25 million, the company returned approximately $210 million to shareholders during the third quarter and approximately $630 million to date. We will continue to use our cash as efficiently as possible.

Our first priority is to ensure adequate capital is maintained at our insurance subsidiaries. Once met, we currently believe share repurchases provide the best return or yield to our shareholders over other available alternatives.

Thus, we anticipate share repurchases will continue to be the primary use of parent's excess cash flow after the payment of shareholder dividends. The parent company's excess cash flow, as we define it, results primarily from the dividends received by the parent from its subsidiaries, less the interest paid on debt, and is available to return to shareholders in the form of dividends and through share repurchases.

For the full year, we anticipate distributing approximately $95 million to shareholders in the form of dividend payments. In addition, anticipate share repurchases will be in the range of $725 million to $775 million, with approximately $185 million of share repurchases in the fourth quarter.

This is a $65 million increase at the midpoint of the range from what we indicated on our last call, as a result of updated capital projections for the year. At this level, we anticipate the combination of shareholder dividends and share repurchases for the year will be near 70% of full-year net operating income at the midpoint of our guidance.

We continue to invest in our growth by making investments in new business, technology, and our insurance operations. It should be noted that the cash received by the parent company from our insurance operations is after our subsidiaries have made these substantial investments and acquired new long-duration assets to fund their future cash needs.

With respect to the capital levels of our insurance subsidiaries, our goal is to maintain capital within our insurance operations at levels necessary to support our current ratings. Globe Life targets a consolidated company action level RBC ratio in the range of 300% to 320%.

Although this range is lower than many of our peers, it is appropriate given the stable premium revenues from the large number of in-force policies, the nature of our protection products with benefits that are not sensitive to interest rates or equity markets, our conservative investment portfolio, and strong, consistent underwriting margins, which result in consistent statutory earnings at our insurance companies. For 2026, based on the current projections of 2026 statutory results, we anticipate our consolidated RBC for the U.S.

subsidiaries within the targeted range of 300% to 320%. In addition, the capital of our Bermuda subsidiaries will exceed management's target capital levels, which exceed regulatory minimums.

As expected, with regards to Globe Life Re, our Bermuda subsidiary, we received reciprocal jurisdiction approval from Indiana, American Income's state of domicile, in the third quarter. In addition, consistent with our business plan, in the third quarter, we completed new reinsurance sessions, which reinsured a portion of new business and in-force life insurance policies issued by American Income to Globe Life Re.

In the fourth quarter, we intend to request a dividend distribution from Globe Life Re. This dividend distribution is subject to approval by Bermuda regulators, and if approved this year, it is unlikely to be distributed to the parent until late in the year.

As such, we have not included this dividend in our 2026 excess cash flow estimates, but have included it in our 2027 excess cash flow estimates. Now with regards to policy obligations for the current quarter.

Each year, GAAP accounting standards require us to review and generally update actuarial assumptions for mortality, morbidity, and lapses. When assumption changes are made, the accounting standards require a cumulative catch-up adjustment back to January 1 of 2021, which is the transition date to LDTI.

This cumulative catch-up is the assumption-related remeasurement gain or loss. The assumption remeasurement gain lowers the reserve balances and indicates an improved outlook as less premiums are needed to fund reserves to meet future policy obligations.

The opposite is true if there is an assumption remeasurement loss. We review and update our life and health reserve assumptions in the third quarter each year.

The remeasurement exhibit by distribution channels included within our supplemental financial information is available on our website and includes the impact of assumption changes as well as total remeasurement gains and losses, which includes those related to current quarter experience results. For the quarter, the overall impact of both life and health assumption changes reduced policy obligations by approximately $120 million, with life obligations reduced by $96 million and health obligations reduced by $24 million.

While this is lower than the prior year's remeasurement gain of $131 million, it continues to indicate improved outlook for future policy obligations. Total GAAP life and health reserves on our consolidated balance sheets are approximately $18 billion, with the adjustments to reserves was less than 1% in total.

To better understand the performance of the business, we believe it is beneficial to look at normalized underwriting margins, which exclude the impact of assumption changes and provide an improved basis for comparison of quarterly results. For the third quarter, normalized life underwriting margin as a percent of premium increased to 41.8% from 41.5% for the year-ago quarter.

Normalized health underwriting margin as a percent of premium was 20.5% compared to 27.2% for the year-ago quarter, reflecting higher policy obligations at United American, primarily from the two items that Matt and Frank previously mentioned. We anticipate the impact of high-severity claims at Every to improve in the fourth quarter.

However, we anticipate loss ratios will be higher than target loss ratios for the remainder of the year. The impact of the additional Medicare supplement claims resulted in an increased claim trends, which will be reflected in 2027 rate filings and, if approved, will be effective beginning in the second quarter of 2027.

Now with respect to our 2026 guidance. For the full year 2026, we estimate net operating earnings per diluted share will be in the range of $15.35 to $15.65, a decrease from the prior guidance, reflecting the impact of third quarter results and revisions to fourth quarter margin estimates for United American.

Normalized EPS growth, which removes the impact of assumption updates, is estimated to be approximately 8% for the full year 2026. Finally, with respect to 2027 guidance, for the full year 2027, we estimate net operating earnings per diluted share will be in the range of $16.10 to $17.10, representing an increase of 7% at the midpoint.

At the midpoint of our guidance, we anticipate total premium revenue growth of 6% to 8% for the full year, with life premium revenue growth 2% to 4%, and health premium revenue growth of 13% to 15%. We anticipate underwriting margin as a percent of premium for the full year to be in the range of 42% to 45% for life, and 20% to 24% for health.

Although the health underwriting margin as a percent of premium is anticipated to decline, this is primarily due to the mix of our health business. Health underwriting margin dollars are expected to grow 7% to 9%, given the strong sales and anticipated premium rate actions for both Medicare supplement business and for Every.

Although 2026 statutory results are not final for the year, we anticipate parent excess cash flows to be approximately $850 million to $950 million in 2027. This range reflects subsidiary dividends anticipated from both our U.S.

and Bermuda subsidiaries, some of which are subject to regulatory approvals. Absent a need to support capital levels at our insurance subsidiaries, this amount would be available to return to shareholders through both dividends and share repurchases in 2027.

Should this amount be used entirely for dividends and share repurchases, the cash conversion ratio would be in the range of 70% to 75% of net operating income at the midpoint of our guidance. We intend to ensure capital levels at our subsidiaries are consistent with management's targeted ranges and sufficient to meet current ratings.

On the next call, I'll provide an update as we get updated statutory results for 2026. Those are my comments.

I'll now turn the call back to Matt.

Matt Darden

Thank you, Tom. Those are our comments.

We will now open up the call for questions.

Operator

Thank you. We will now begin the question-and-answer session.

To ask a question, simply press star followed by the number 1 on your telephone keypad. Our first question will come from the line of Ryan Krueger with KBW.

Please go ahead.

Ryan Krueger

Hey, thanks. Good morning.

First question was, can you say how much of an assumption review benefit that you embedded in the midpoint of your 2027 EPS guidance?

Tom Kalmbach

Ryan. The ranges reflects what we expect from just overall obligations as well as assumption updates.

No specifics. We've tried to incorporate a number of scenarios and have incorporated that into the ranges.

We really want to see how results emerge in Q4 to help guide us to further clarify how much assumption updates we'd expect. I would expect remeasurement gains each quarter, I think you'll see those, and those will be indicative of the likelihood of an assumption update in 2027.

If you look at our third quarter results, you'll see that we had actual-to-expected remeasurement gains for the quarter of about $20 million for the life business, which is after the update to our life assumptions. That's indicative that mortality continues to run favorable relative to our long-term assumptions.

As we continue down that path, I would expect that we would see an assumption update.

Matt Darden

Tom, is it safe to say— Oh, Ryan, I was going to say, I think also, as Tom mentioned, it's embedded in our ranges in a variety of scenarios. We need to really see how experience comes in over the next couple of quarters to refine that.

I'd say, overall on the margin, we would expect that if we were going to have an adjustment, it would probably be lower in magnitude than what we had in the current year.

Ryan Krueger

Got it. Then, I guess a kind of two-part question on Every and in United American.

I guess, one is just more quantitative and what you're assuming for the United American margin in 2027. Then, secondly, I guess just on Every, more from a strategic standpoint, it is a different business with a wider range of claim outcomes than your typical supplemental health and Medicare supplement businesses.

I guess I'm just kind of wondering your views on, are you confident that it makes sense to be in a business like this at Globe Life long term, given that it is primary healthcare and it does differ quite a bit from the narrower, kind of fixed-benefit costs of the other businesses you're in?

Matt Darden

Tom, why don't I start with the strategic part of the question, and I'll let you do the margin. From a strategy perspective, one of the things that does help us with is that, as we go to market in United American with our limited benefit health plans, it helps to have a full range of products in dealing with brokers.

Having a health plan option, there is some market synergy there. I think from a long-term perspective, it's not unexpected that as that builds the size of that book, and we get more credibility and size, we would expect more stable results going forward.

We do recognize it's a startup, and we're going to have a little bit lumpy results here in the beginning. I think overall, from a long-term strategic perspective, we wouldn't ever expect this to be a significant part of the overall health business if you just look at it from a contribution to our underwriting margin from a health perspective.

What we want to do is be able to grow this thing to scale so that we get more of the economies of scale from our overall results perspective, and get some of the volatility back out of it. From a long-term perspective, there is some market synergies with this type of business.

Our main focus going forward will continue to be the supplemental health products that we've historically sold, and that will be the vast majority of our underwriting margin dollars in our health lines.

Tom Kalmbach

I think what I'd say on the margins themselves, a couple of things. We do think that the impact of high-severity claims will diminish over the course of the fourth quarter.

We'd really like to see kind of where those fourth quarter results come in. The other thing is we've taken a couple of actions to actually improve the overall profitability of the business.

We are reflecting that business is renewable every year, upon renewal, we're looking at rate increases on that business as well. Those are being factored in not only to renewal rates, but also to new business rates as those get quoted.

I think that bodes well for margin improvement in Every. I think what's important, as we get more stable of a size of membership, that actually the volatility around results will be better understood, and we can take the management actions, and we'd also expect that volatility to be reduced over time.

As we think about 2027, we've factored those in the range of the 20% to the 24% margin for the health business. That's a little bit wider range than where we've had previously, and is reflective of there is an opportunity for some additional volatility in 2027.

I think we'll update you next quarter. We'll have the fourth quarter results and can provide some better guidance on that coming up with those results.

Frank Svoboda

I would just add that I think for UAGA itself, it's probably still somewhere in that mid to upper single digit margin percentages overall, cuz even without the Every, we are still seeing some higher utilization costs on the UAGA and on the individual Medigap. We do anticipate working those additional trends into our rate filings that'll take effect in 2027.

Of course, as we've talked about here for the last couple years, you have a delay before those rate increases take effect, and so you don't get the full effect in the 2027. We don't anticipate for 2027 that they'll still be reaching those longer-term margins that we would expect for the long term.

Tom Kalmbach

One of the things I think

Operator

is

Tom Kalmbach

a benefit there, though, is the strong premium growth that we're seeing at UAGA, which will add to underwriting margin dollars, yeah. So.

Thank you.

Operator

Our next question will come from the line of Wilma Burdis with Raymond James. Please go ahead.

Wilma Burdis

Hey, good morning. Just following up on Every, maybe you can give us a little bit more color on the market synergies in the product suite, and maybe just give us a little bit more color on the financial impact there.

Is it enough to offset, it seems like we've already had $20-plus million of underwriting losses this year from Every? Maybe just talk about that.

Are you seeing enough of a financial benefit there to make that worth it? Thanks.

Matt Darden

I'd say, from an overall perspective, again, the market that it is serving, it's a health plan, and so you get a little bit of volatility as we're growing that. The number of groups that were signed up this year compared to last year, significantly different.

We're in the early stages of this, you really need to build that business to a credible amount of lives. The part that you got to keep in mind is the premium that you charge on the book of business occurs ratably over the year.

However, the claims, they're not coming in ratably. We have a handful of high-severity claims that are hitting in this quarter as the earned premium ramps up over a period of time.

As Tom mentioned, we really need to get this to more of a credible size of block of business, and that should help from a stability of the earnings perspective.

Frank Svoboda

I would say, though, I think it's important to note that we are pricing the business for what we believe to be profitable. Again, as Matt talked about, just with some of the smaller sides of groups, you end up with some volatility that we're clearly seeing right now with respect to some of those groups, and just having more high-severity claims than one would normally expect in more mature blocks.

That's what's kind of driving some of the losses here. I think to your point around some of the synergies, it's the broker relationships, and being able to go to the brokers with multiple types of products helps us within that.

As we're continue to expand what we're doing in the broker area with some of the supplemental health plans as well, then that just helps us with the relationships with those brokers, as well as providing a broader product suite and enabling us to get more of our supplemental health products into employer groups.

Matt Darden

The nice thing I like about this business is that we can reprice every year upon renewal for experience that we're seeing, and we anticipate, as well as if we need to, we can non-renew a group. That gives us a lot of flexibility on a go-forward basis to really, once we have a credible number of groups, to be able to manage those appropriately.

Wilma Burdis

Thank you. Then is there a good buyback opportunity or a good opportunity here in the stock to lean in on buybacks, especially given you guys cited pretty outsized excess cash flow estimates for 2027?

Maybe just give us a little bit of color there. Thanks.

Tom Kalmbach

I think, as we think about excess cash flow, that is the source of funds for shareholder dividends and buybacks, and so we are seeing growth in that, just from growth of statutory earnings as well as, which creates dividend capacity for subsidiaries. Then also, the reciprocal jurisdiction actually provides us a little bit of one-time benefit that we should see in 2027.

I think more importantly is the business that we're reinsuring to Bermuda will continue to generate earnings and dividend capacity in Bermuda, consistent with what we've communicated previously on a go-forward basis. We feel pretty good about current excess cash flow levels and our ability to maintain that going forward.

Wilma Burdis

Great, thank you.

Operator

Our next question will come from the line of Randy Binner with Texas Capital. Please go ahead.

Randy Binner

Hey, there. I'd like to actually just ask some procedural questions, if I can, about the health claims.

The first is on the CMS claim delay. Can you just review for us kind of why that happened and when it happened, and just the, I guess, the visibility you have on the resolution of that?

You mentioned, I think, it was $7 million of extra claims in the quarter, but does that go to zero extra in the fourth quarter? Just trying to understand kind of the facts that drove that situation.

Tom Kalmbach

To give you a little bit of background, from Medicare in the first quarter, and that's two issues that delayed claims reporting and processing. The first issue was billing rates to Medicare doctors, where the reimbursement rates were corrected, and so that resulted in some higher reimbursements that we needed to process through, and that was largely a second quarter event, but those higher billing rates continue into the third and fourth quarter as well.

The second issue was involved in the reissuing of Medicare IDs leading to previously denied legitimate claims. Beneficiaries were issued new medical IDs.

Physicians or hospitals who had submitted claims that were denied, they would need to obtain those IDs from those beneficiaries, which takes a little bit of time. We didn't have good visibility into the full impact of that until this quarter.

We feel like that's pretty much gone through the system, and those medical IDs were issued in April of 2026, and so we feel like that's pretty much gone through the system, and should be normalized on a go-forward basis.

Matt Darden

The nice thing is that based on the timing of our rate filings is that, as I'd mentioned in my comments, a lot of those related to earlier periods in 2026, those claims that came through in the third quarter. That'll be part of our claim trend that will go into our rate filing for those 2027 rates that most of those will start being picked up starting in the beginning of the second quarter of 2027 in this additional premium.

Randy Binner

That's helpful. That was going to be my follow-up.

Certainly the Every claims are in your rate filings, but these, I guess these still count, even though they're non-recurring or should even out. Then just one more follow-up though on Every.

When you have a high-severity claim, what is it? Is there a typical type of high-severity claim you've experienced there, and what are the specifics of that kind of claim?

Matt Darden

The claims fall what you might imagine, cancer, heart attack, some of those types of issues, and so you have claimants with over $100,000 as an example on a claim related to some of those higher severity. Now, we do have reinsurance that kicks in at some point to protect us from very large claims, but to the extent we've got certain medical conditions that we're paying for underneath that reinsurance cap, that's getting to a little bit of the severity.

Back to the number of lives that we ultimately insured, if you have a handful of those, it's just a bigger percent of your total than if you have a better distribution of risk as we sign up more groups.

Randy Binner

All right, I'll leave it there. Thank you.

Operator

Our next question will come from the line of Andrew Kligerman with TD Cowen. Please go ahead.

Andrew Kligerman

Hey, good morning, team. I wanted to follow up on the Every and CMS, and I just want to make sure I understand the timelines.

It sounds to me like the CMS issue might linger into 4Q and then it kind of evaporates. With Every, just given your guiding to health margins of 20% to 24%, it doesn't sound like you're totally certain as we progress through 2027.

Do you have confidence that by '28, the Every issue will be cleaned up? I'll stop there, but just a quick sidebar too, as I look at startups across all of the insurance sectors, it's so hard to compete with these behemoth companies with massive data and analytics.

Generally, what gives you confidence that Every can compete? Really the first part of it is just the timelines that I laid out.

Thank you.

Frank Svoboda

Sure, Andrew. Hey, to start with the Medicare and the CMS piece, the additional claims that we really saw as a result of the Medicare ID issue really impact Q3, because you end up with some out-of-period claims.

When we look at the full year, those become more normalized in the overall margin and the claims activity for Medicare, and then go into how we think about the trends that we're seeing and that are occurring on that Medicare business in 2026. Of course, then as Matt indicated, that will run its course in 2026 and then get taken into account as we think about those rate filings that we're making now and impacting the premium rate increases for 2027 with respect to that.

It did impact, as we were occurring that in Q3, then it became evident that some of the expectations that we had for claims development in Q4 were really understated. As we had to think about that new claims trend and what impact that had on 20 on the fourth quarter, that's why we end up needing to increase some of the claims and loss expectations with respect to the Med supp business for the full year 2026.

With respect to Every, we do anticipate that pricing actions that we're taking will help to moderate any of the claims activity that we're seeing in and with respect to that business in 2027. As we continue to add more groups, and you get a broader base, that also gives you that broader set of groups that you can absorb some higher claims in some groups that are absorbed by profitability in other groups.

To your point, we do have a broader range in 2027. As we've said before, we price this to be profitable, but do understand that there's still some volatility that we expect in 2027.

There's the possibility that there still could be some level of losses in 2027 and built that into the overall range. We'll see how that transpires over the course of the year, and we'll take necessary actions as we go forward, and continuing to look at each new group as they renew, and continuing to rethink about how we're pricing new groups coming in as well, and ensuring that we're pricing those appropriately.

I do think there's at least the possibility that there's some losses. We don't anticipate that it would be as significant in 2027 as what we've actually incurred here in 2026, cuz we just don't see, as we grow the broader book of business, that the occurrence of the high-severity losses will lessen as a percentage of the whole.

Andrew Kligerman

Got it. Thank you for that.

Then my follow-up is around American Income, the the producer count, the average quarterly producers. It looks like next year you're you're pointing Well, you've said in the guidance mid- to high single-digit sales growth at American Income, but it's been a bunch of quarters that you you've had to adjust and revise the compensation methodologies used at American Income.

The other point I would make is, yeah, with the with the count, the average producer count down 7%, and I guess sequentially it was only down a half point. Bottom line, what what gives you such confidence in the mid- to high single digit?

What's going to be different in 2027 versus '26? Thanks.

Matt Darden

Andrew, I guess I would point out, it's really been two quarters since the compensation adjustment has been in place. In other words, we put that in at the beginning of Q2, and so for Q2 and Q3, what we're seeing is a stabilization of the agent count.

What we are seeing, and I've mentioned this before, when we talk about the incentive compensation structure we roll out to the agents, we're really trying to balance activity between sales activity and recruiting, training, and growth activity. What we did see was a positive improvement on the productivity side.

We had an increase of productivity of 11% this quarter, and it was 9% last quarter. The compensation changes, the way I think about it, were effective.

We got increase in sales. We increased the requirement to achieve certain what we call bonuses, but it's effectively incentive compensation.

We increased what the sales growth was necessary at the agent level to be able to achieve those, and so we're seeing that on the productivity side. We're also seeing that, as we've got a stabilization of the base, we've got more people that have more experience, and so they're going to produce more.

Overall, the compensation adjustment, I think, that went in at the beginning of the second quarter of this year was effective. It just didn't quite move the needle as much as we'd like on the recruiting side.

We're going to put in additional changes to that structure that really focus a little bit more of that incentive comp on the recruiting and training side. We've got a long history of doing this, we anticipate those changes will start flowing through in the beginning of next year, cuz they're going in at the end of this year.

As I mentioned in my comments, this is human behavior we're dealing with, and so when we put a change in, it takes a little bit of time for everybody to migrate to the new structure that we've put in place. We recognize it takes a couple of quarters to kind of figure that out.

I think we have a good base to build on, and that's why we think we can be at the mid- to high single-digit growth for next year because of what we're putting in here at the end of this year.

Andrew Kligerman

Thanks for the insights.

Operator

Our next question will come from the line of Joel Hurwitz with Dowling & Partners. Please go ahead.

Joel Hurwitz

Hey, good morning. Two first on cash generation.

Just what is the expected dividend from Bermuda in '27? Then, Tom, could you provide some more color on what drove the increase to your '26 capital projection?

Tom Kalmbach

Sure. On the '26 capital, what I'd mentioned is, we were looking at our 2026 subsidiary capital positions and recognized that we had a little bit of excess capital in the entities.

That's what kind of drove that estimate. That keeps us at a RBC ratio right within our target ranges, we feel comfortable with that capital position.

On 2027 for Bermuda, we actually have to go through approval process, it's not definitive yet, but we'd expect that somewhere in the $150 million range for 20 for not what we're requesting in '26, but in the combination of what we requested in '26 and '27 would be in that range.

Joel Hurwitz

Got it, that's helpful. Then just a quick one on the life margin with the assumption update done this quarter.

What's the expected life margin for the fourth quarter of this year?

Tom Kalmbach

Fourth quarter life margin is Hold on 1 second. 41.

41.5% range, 41.3%.

Joel Hurwitz

Thank you.

Operator

Our next question will come from the line of Suneet Kamath with Jefferies. Please go ahead.

Suneet Kamath

Thanks. Just I want to start with Bermuda also.

Have you guys done any work on which blocks of business would be, I guess, the most advantageous to move to Bermuda between, say, life and health? Then relatedly, do you have any limits in terms of how much, what percentage of your reserves you ultimately would want to cede to Bermuda?

Tom Kalmbach

We continuously look at our opportunities to reinsure to Bermuda, and we haven't set any solid limits on what those limits would be. We do think that it's important to keep reserves here in the U.S.

I think that helps us from a liquidity perspective and from just an operational perspective. I think we'll have a balanced view of that, and it will emerge over time as we continue to look at our business and opportunities with using a Bermuda framework.

Frank Svoboda

I would just add that the team really has done a lot of work in looking at potential blocks and which ones make more sense to be reinsured to Bermuda and which ones don't. There is definitely some art to being able to optimize which blocks you're reinsuring and which ones you aren't, and just based on age and stability and a lot of other factors.

I think in our business plan, and we've talked about on prior calls, I think initially, we're kind of looking at maybe around 25% of the statutory reserves as being included. We'll definitely continue to take a look at that.

Our primary focus is really executing on that business plan. Then as we're doing that, continuing to look to see, are there other blocks that would make sense and that have some opportunity as we think about just overall managing of that business and the capital that we have in there.

Matt Darden

To your question on life and health, it's more on the life side where the opportunity is. That's where we incur quite a bit of deferred acquisition costs, and the treatment of that under a GAAP regime in Bermuda, along with the difference between U.S.

statutory and GAAP reserves on the life business is much more substantial. Those are the two things, as we talked about, both on the in-force blocks that we reinsure as well as on a go-forward basis, the new business that we reinsure into Bermuda, more of the benefits are going to be on our life blocks and life sales.

Suneet Kamath

That's helpful. Then, I was trying to jot this down during your prepared remarks, apologize if I got it wrong, but it sounded like the growth in NII for '27 was expected to be 2.5% to 3.5%, and then the growth in required interest was supposed to be higher at 3.5% to 4.5%.

If those numbers are right, does that imply that excess investment income will decline year-over-year, or am I not thinking about that right?

Frank Svoboda

No, I think you're in the right ballpark. It's probably flat to maybe just slightly declining, depending on kind of the nuances of where that falls within that.

Really what's really driving that is that as you think about the additional distributions that we're making out of the entities up to the parent, and then if in fact those are not needed for our capital purposes, and if those are distributed out to shareholders, then that's going to reduce the amount of your average invested assets that we have available. That's what's really driving kind of the lower growth in net investment income.

While at the same time, you still have the same amount of GAAP reserves out there, your required interest continues to grow at the same rate. We would anticipate not much growth in net investment income, but then to the extent that we are able to return out to shareholders in the form of buybacks, and we're getting the benefit from that.

Suneet Kamath

Thanks.

Operator

Our next question will come from the line of Tom Gallagher with Evercore ISI. Please go ahead.

Tom Gallagher

Thanks. Just a few Every questions.

What are the total quarterly premiums that you have associated with that business right now? How big are the average groups you're insuring in terms of employee size?

Frank Svoboda

In the third quarter, Every premiums were about $11 million, it wasn't very significant. Next year, we'd assume total annualized premium of around $100 million, so that'll give you some idea of the size of the business.

Then the number of groups, we'd expect to be around 50 groups next year.

Tom Gallagher

You're going to more than double from a size standpoint versus where you are right now? Not quite double.

Frank Svoboda

Right now, we have about 30 groups. We had some groups come on in the beginning of the fourth quarter, not quite double, but close.

Tom Gallagher

Gotcha. I guess my follow-up is just covering some of the companies that have medical stop-loss, we've been watching and hearing about two to three years of high-severity claims happening.

I guess just in light of that, what gives you confidence that you're not being selected against? Because there's obviously re-rates going on across major medical.

It's been happening for at least two years. Do you have any way of sort of filtering out your underwriting on these groups as you grow to make sure that you're not going to see these persistently high severity claims?

Thanks.

Matt Darden

One of the things we've done is looked at just our underwriting standards, our pricing methodology. We've done a deep dive on that.

We've also brought in some external expertise just to validate some of our assumptions. We do know that there's a lot of cases out there that are getting shopped, and we turned down a significant number of those, trying to maintain the discipline on the pricing and underwriting side.

We had over 70% of the cases that we are looking at that we turned down and declined to quote. We're being very disciplined around what we take on and what we write from a new group perspective, and that is really, again, since it's not a major piece of our business, we're really going to constrain growth.

We want to get to a credible size so that we can diversify the risk of a few large claims over a greater number of lives, but we're going to be very disciplined on our pricing approach to this, and we'll moderate the growth if we need to or we'll non-renew groups if we need to.

Tom Gallagher

Gotcha. Thank you.

Operator

Our next question will come from the line of Maxwell Fritscher with Truist. Please go ahead.

Maxwell Fritscher

Hi, thank you. I'm calling in for Mark Hughes.

You had mentioned the higher productivity at American Income. I believe you were only focusing on American Income, but how are productivity trends across the enterprise, Liberty National, for example, and the smaller piece of the pie, but are you seeing similar improvement?

Matt Darden

You can kind of just tell from aggregate if you just look at American Income, our average agent count over the last three to four quarters has been pretty stable, but we've got some sales growth or sales moderating there. That just gives you an idea the productivity on a per-agent basis is, if we've got less agents, 7% less agents this time this year than we did same time last year, but our sales are relatively flat, we're just seeing a higher productivity.

You're seeing that in Family Heritage as well. We see nice productivity gains there, the sales are a little bit different or outpacing the growth in the agent count.

On Liberty, it's really pretty consistent. Our agent count growth is pretty consistent with our sales growth there, and that's what we'd expect over a long period of time.

What we see sometimes is changes in whether it's compensation or sometimes rolling out new technology, like CRM systems or enhancements to sales systems or training systems, we'll get some productivity gains. Overall, long term, not quarter to quarter, but long term, we're really focused on we want to have more agents that sell more business.

We like productivity gains as we think about investments in technology and investments in leads and advertising and branding and all those things, but overall, long-term growth strategy is definitely to grow our agent count. What gives me comfort about is it just gives us, and this is why I like having three different agencies, it really gives us a sense of the market is that we're not seeing headwinds from an environment perspective, from an economic perspective, is that we've got agent productivity going up, we've got sales growing up, to the extent we're growing our agent count.

All of that, again, is what I believe is under our control to manage and achieve strong growth going forward, and we'll continue to get that by focusing on growing our agent count. As a reminder, the agent recruiting activity happens out in the field, in the individual offices, and a lot of that activity happens by our manager group.

As I've mentioned in my prepared remarks, Family Heritage, what I like seeing is we've got middle management growth, and to the extent that we've got middle management growth, I know that's a forward-looking item. We got more people out there recruiting and training agents, so that bodes well from a long-term growth perspective.

Maxwell Fritscher

Very good, thank you. I asked a similar question last quarter, but it seems like a lot has gone on in the economy in the past three months.

I'd like to know if you have any incremental views around recruiting. Last call, you'd noted that the pipeline was strong, but I'd like to know if you can provide any updated views on the environment.

Matt Darden

I think from a recruiting perspective, we continue to see, and this would be a good example of looking at the most recent experience at Liberty, is that there continues to be a lot of people that are interested in our opportunity, and that is in the form of they feel more in control of their career, we give them flexibility, opportunity for growth. There's plenty of people that are interested in being able to own their own business someday.

We provide a pathway to be able to do that. As you look at the backdrop of what's happening with college graduates as an example, and it's hard to find that entry-level job, or people that are in jobs that the particular industry may not be growing, and those are stagnant.

Our opportunity provides opportunity for growth. We don't see any headwinds from a recruiting perspective.

We see that as strong and robust. The nice thing is that our business model does not require that we recruit from a certain segment of the population or a certain experience or background or you've got to be an experienced agent.

We recruit people that have no experience in this business and have a great process for getting them up, trained, and licensed, and selling. That's the biggest part of the population out there is our pool that we recruit from, and so I feel very good about our prospects going forward.

Maxwell Fritscher

Great, thank you.

Operator

Our next question will come from the line of Pablo Singzon with JPMorgan. Please go ahead.

Pablo, you might be on mute.

Pablo Singzon

Hello, can you hear me now? Sorry about that.

Operator

Yes.

Pablo Singzon

The first question I had was on '27 EPS guidance, which implies about 7% growth at the midpoint. How much of that growth will be driven by buybacks?

I think in recent years, buybacks have contributed anywhere from 4% to 8% of incremental EPS growth versus growth in dollar earnings. I guess if we could tie everything together, right, sounds like excess investment income will be flat to slightly down.

Underwriting income could be up, right, but perhaps the premium growth offset by some slight deterioration in margins. Sort of any high-level perspective in how you see EPS progressing from '26 into '27 would be helpful.

Thanks.

Frank Svoboda

I think overall, Pablo, I think at the midpoint of the guidance for 2027, you're looking at around 7% overall at that midpoint. Actually, probably in that range of 5% to 6% is probably coming from share buybacks is what we're anticipating, and then you're having growth in net operating income more in that 1% to 2% range.

Pablo Singzon

Part of that is— That's helpful. Yep.

Frank Svoboda

Part of that, as Tom mentioned and I mentioned earlier, we're anticipating some additional dividend distributions out of the operating entities up to the parent. To the extent that, and Tom mentioned, that's really in that $150 million range or so that's being included.

That is, if you will, pulling that out of the system is taking out of the growth of our invested assets, which is then turning into net investment income. That's a piece of that, and then probably, if you will, the little lower growth rates still even on the if you think about it from a life underwriting perspective and just I think the midpoint of the range that we have in 2027 on the underwriting margin percentage, slightly down perhaps, probably just we've had, if you think about some of the assumption changes that are probably going through, as Matt really mentioned, probably anticipate, even though we would anticipate some assumption updates, probably less than what we had in 2026 right now.

That's kind of driving, if you will, a little bit of the lower growth in net operating income.

Pablo Singzon

Got it. Then my second set of questions, just on Every, a couple here, right?

Do you think pricing will be sufficient to get the book back on track, or are there any changes in underwriting that you need to implement? Then relatedly, since you had given stats on premium sizes and counts of the groups that you have now, at what premium size or group count size do you think the book will reach better credibility from a claims perspective?

Thanks.

Matt Darden

I think on the pricing, it's from a volatility in the earnings, you need both. For those groups that we renewed, we put in pretty significant price adjustments, as well as, as I'd mentioned, making sure we challenged what pricing is for new groups that would be coming on at the beginning of 2027.

Also, again, if I've got just a handful of groups, I really need more groups from a credibility perspective. The way I think about it, it's a combination of both is more price action in addition to just getting the volume of the business bigger to spread across the risk over multiple groups.

I think more from your question of credibility perspective, we need to get it up to a certain level and more stable results and ongoing growth perspective. We'd anticipate that would happen more toward the end of '27 or end of '28 is that as we get volume and scale, that makes some of the chances for volatility to be reduced going forward.

Frank Svoboda

I think you want to have the groups on the books for a period of time to create that confidence in the experience, and so, I think end of '27 is good, but that's probably the starting point of gaining just solid credibility.

Operator

Our next question will come from the line of Wes Carmichael with Wells Fargo. Please go ahead.

Wes Carmichael

Hey, thank you. Just had a follow-up on capital in Bermuda.

Could you just quantify the size of the additional reinsurance transaction, and maybe with reciprocal jurisdiction approval now, have your expectations around longer-term cash flow uplift changed at all, or any help there would be great?

Frank Svoboda

Yeah. The reinsurance transaction that we did in the third quarter was about $275 million of reserves, it's relatively small.

We also had new business that we're reinsuring a larger portion of American Income Life's new business to Bermuda. Then on excess cash flow, our '27 excess cash flow going from some $850 to $950 as the range, that actually reflects kind of an increased run rate.

Over time, I'd expect as we fully get the benefits of Bermuda that that could increase, absent other capital needs within the insurance operations. I think I'm just really optimistic on that ability to increase the kind of the run rate on the excess cash flow at the parent company.

I think, as we kind of look back over the last couple of years, before shareholder dividends, we've been in that $600 million, $700 million range, and, we've been able to, through some of these transactions, been able to take out some extraordinary dividends over the past couple of years. I think going forward, being able to have it in that $850 to $950 range, and just as business grows, and our block of business grows, that has that potentially increase from there, really sets us at a new level and really gives us that added flexibility at the parent to make sure that we can support the capital needs of our organization, but and then have us more flexibility to use that excess cash flow for other purposes if we're able to.

Wes Carmichael

Got it, that's helpful. Sorry if I missed this in the prepared remarks, but did you give an outlook for the health margin for the fourth quarter of 2026?

I know there are some moving pieces in the third quarter with the claims and assumption review, sorry if I missed that, but just wanted to clarify that.

Frank Svoboda

Not specifically for the fourth quarter, but overall 22% to 24%.

Wes Carmichael

Just the fourth quarter of 2026, yeah.

Frank Svoboda

It's about 20% to

Wes Carmichael

22%.

Frank Svoboda

You said 22%? 20% to 22%, somewhere in that range.

Wes Carmichael

Thank you. Got it.

Thanks so much.

Frank Svoboda

Yep.

Operator

Thank you. There are no further questions in queue.

I'll hand it back to Stephen Mota for closing remarks.

Stephen Mota

All right. Thank you for joining us this morning.

Those are our comments. We will talk to you again next quarter.

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes today's call. Thank you all for joining.

You may now disconnect.