Operator
Welcome to the Beijer Alma Q4 2025 report presentation. During the questions-and-answers session, participants are able to ask questions by dialing pound key 5 on their telephone keypad.
Now I will hand the conference over to the speakers, acting President and CEO Johnny Alvarsson and CFO Peter Forslund. Please go ahead.
Johnny Alvarsson
Hello, welcome everybody. My voice is a bit different today.
It's not because it's dark time, it's because I have got a cold. For those who don't know me, I can tell you I have followed this company since the early '90s and been doing quite other businesses, but last year I was in here for a number of months as CEO.
We can start with the presentation. Together with me, there is Peter Forslund also, who has been in the company for about a year.
Peter Forslund
Good morning everybody.
Johnny Alvarsson
We will go through five different subjects: it's the highlights from Q4, financial performance, acquisitions, where we're going in the future, and Q&A. If we then go to the highlights for last quarter, well, you can say that Beijer Alma consists of two large divisions: one is Lesjöfors and one is Beijer Tech.
Lesjöfors is today mainly a number of companies producing springs with different brands. We have around 19 brands, and we are in most parts of the world without exception for South America and Australia.
The other part is Beijer Tech, who at this moment is only in the Nordic area and is acquiring quite different businesses in industrial product, fluid technology, and niche technologies. Beijer Tech is very, very, very equal to what we call serial acquirers that work in the same way with a very small overhead.
When you buy a company, you keep the company and you just develop it as it is; you don't look for synergies. Lesjöfors to large extent is the same, but for many years ago when it started, part of Lesjöfors we had an integrated business, but during last years, the companies we have acquired around the world, they are in the same way standalone businesses as with Beijer Tech.
We are in, as I said, it's 19 countries. We take the next picture.
As we communicated in yesterday evening, we have now a goal of growing the EBITA margin with 15% per year. As you can see, this is what we just did in 2025.
We also have a goal now for the capital efficiency, and that is 50%, and there we are a little bit behind, we are on 46%. Those of you who met me after Q1 last year remember I talked about how you should look at Beijer Alma and what I said about also the margins we can expect for different businesses.
For those who remember what I said can see that we are on track to our goals. It will take a few years more before we have reached our goals, but we are sure on the right track for that.
We had a nice EBITA margin growth during 2025 and also during last quarter. As I say, we have started to now put more emphasis on capital efficiency, but this is just in the beginning of a story that will last for many, many years.
Go to the highlights of the quarter. It's been a tough period depending on market circumstances around the world, also for us specifically in some cases.
In general, if you look at the markets in United States, it's been no change more or less. It's a slow market, but it's no change, neither upwards or downwards.
In Asia, for us has actually been the positive trend. We have good opportunities there, we have new customers coming in.
In the Europe, it's also okay, and the Nordic is more slow business when we talk about Lesjöfors. In the niche businesses in Beijer Tech, it varies between the different companies, and then we see positive trends.
As you see, we had a growth of 3% organically between '24 and '25 in the quarter, but the currency hit us hard and it probably will continue because we had still the dollar is on a very low level compared to 1 year ago. Then we can go to Lesjöfors.
Lesjöfors, as I said, as Lesjöfors are the only business we have in United States. They are on a slow side.
The positive side is that we in Asia have new opportunities with new customers, and just as a small example, you might have heard of that the new chips for AI are supposed to be cooled by water. We actually have now customer they are supplying a small spring to the connectors to this cooling water to AI.
With the volumes there is in that area, it will be nice business for us as a nice example for new areas. On the other hand, in United States, we have had very nice business in medical, but as we expected, that is going down now this year and we're looking for new opportunities in United States.
In Europe, it's rather same level, but for those who know us, that the springs for door springs business has been reduced and our export to United States has more or less stopped, so that affects our volume. All other businesses is going about on the same level.
Very nice is that our aftermarket business, the springs for aftermarket for cars, that accounts for about 20% of turnover, is doing very well. We are now back on levels before we stopped the business in Russia and before the pandemic also.
We had had very nice development in that area. If we then go to Beijer Tech, we did two acquisitions during the quarter: one in Finland, Devona, and one in Sweden, Intercut.
Then we also have niche businesses that has developed very well. We invested in expanding factories last year and they have now paid off.
We can see that in our invoicing and results from those businesses where we did the investments. It's been a very good development for Beijer Tech during last year.
With that, I give the word to Peter talking about the financials, and you are welcome back with more questions later on.
Peter Forslund
Thank you, Johnny. We go to the key ratios slide.
To say, you see here we have included capital efficiency. That's the first time we disclose numbers on capital efficiency.
We will try to through the annual report also to give you a breakdown on the different business areas or the divisions between Lesjöfors and Beijer Tech, you will get more depth in the knowledge over time. The board has also proposed a dividend of 4 SEK per share for the annual general meeting to make a decision on later in the spring.
News there is that the payment will be divided in two installments: one in the spring and one roughly 6 months later. We will come in a little bit on the background when we come to the financial slides and the cash flow slides.
We'll leave the other key ratios as is. I will give you a little bit more on the results and a little bit more on details when it comes to the development.
Overall, a stable performance in the quarter. When you look at the profitability levels, you will see a positive mix in Lesjöfors.
Chassis had a good development, and then we have had, to say, a little bit of shrinking business mainly due to the currency effects within the industrial sector. That gives a positive mix effect from the chassis side.
Top line in the Lesjöfors Industrial part is affected by the savings program that we launched back in June. There is businesses where the profitability levels has not been where we expected that we have closed down.
We have closed down a factory, we have, to say, stopped the export to US, we have closed a business line in Turkey. All of that gives a top-line effect that you see in the report that the organic growth within Lesjöfors Industrial is a little bit more sluggish.
It's both a market thing, but also a decision that we made to stop some nonprofitable businesses to make sure we choose and pick what is really profitable. In the quarter, if we take the US door business, that's around 35 million SEK that we lose in top line, and we expect the same level of drop also in Q1 and Q2.
That business stopped in the later end of Q2 last year, the comparisons for the next two quarters will also be affected by those top-line effects. We have talked quite a lot about Alcomex, and it's an important part of the program that's been running.
Alcomex is fairly stable development. I think it's wise to point out there is still work to do before we are where we want to be profitability levels.
The closing of the factory that we did was, to say, finalized in the back end of November, meaning there is still work to do on that front before we are happy with the profitability in Alcomex. Beijer Tech, as Johnny mentioned, is performing on a high level.
All business areas is tipping in. We saw the effect from the ramp-up from the investments.
The effect was a little bit stronger in the end of the quarter than we expected. We have especially Botek, which has performed very well when they have increased the capacity, even above our expectations.
It's been strong delivery from a couple of Beijer Tech companies. It's also worthwhile pointing out that even if transaction costs is a part of the business, for comparable reasons, in Q4 last year we didn't have any transaction costs, and when you do transactions in Finland you have also stamp taxes correlated to that.
A little bit higher transaction costs in the quarter compared to Q4 last year is also, to say, affecting that you don't really see that the improvement in the underlying performance. We also can mention a little bit in Beijer Tech side that from the fire safety companies that we have had a very strong end to the year, and this is mainly due to a one-time order that we've had in the quarter and delivered in the quarter.
It's a positive effect from that as well. Not something that we see every quarter, but that business in itself is strong.
Good. I jumped one slide too many.
Yeah. Talking a little bit about cash flows, we get through a fairly positive cash flow in the quarter.
I would say even strong. Here you see a little bit of the reasoning on the dividend payment that we discussed earlier that the cash flow in the first quarter of the year generally is weaker due to the setup of the chassis spring business when it comes to customer rebates, making the cash flow lower in Q1.
Then to get a better flow of the cash over the year, that's why the board has proposed and the annual meeting to decide on splitting the dividend payment: one in the spring and one then October, November somewhere. We expect the seasonal pattern to repeat in Q1 2026 when it comes to the cash flow.
Looking at the capital efficiency, it's been a good improvement over the year. It's driven by the EBITA growth that we have.
Here you also see a bit of currency when it comes to translation of the item as well, it's the absolute number increase looks a little bit smaller than it actually is. It's affected also by currency.
Coming into the financial position, a good news from the quarter is that we have a new financing in place with three Nordic banks, putting on a multicurrency revolving credit facility and a number of term loans in relation to that. It's a 3-year facility with the possibility to extend.
We think that we have good conditions and a high flexibility in the financing, making sure that we have the financing we need for the coming years. We are on a net debt-EBITDA level of 1.7, meaning that we have a good amount of cash available to invest in growth and in acquisitions.
We should have the headroom that we need to reach the targets that we have set. Looking a little bit then on the full year, it was close, but no cigar on reaching the 5 billion in Lesjöfors.
We will leave that for next year. Solid organic growth in Lesjöfors over the year around 3%.
You have a currency effect, and as Johnny said, we expect currency, if the rates stay at the current levels, to be significant also in Q1. Then the longer the year goes on, the easier the currency comparisons will be of sort, but, yeah, the dollar at 9, there is still currency effects to pass through.
If we look at Beijer Tech, we've had organic growth of around 5%. It's a strong performance from Beijer Tech overall in the year.
We made five acquisitions, adding around 15% in revenue on that side. We made the acquisitions in all business area within Beijer Tech, we have a good spread on the acquisitions that we have done.
Great, Johnny, then I'll leave it back to you.
Johnny Alvarsson
I think I guess it's more to leave it back to questions or
Operator
If you wish to ask a question, please dial pound key 5 on your telephone keypad to enter the queue. If you wish to withdraw your question, please dial pound key 6 on your telephone keypad.
The next question comes from Max Bacco from SEB. Please go ahead.
Max Bacco
Thank you, and good morning to both of you. I have three quite short questions.
The first one you already touched upon during the presentation, but looking at Lesjöfors, very nice profitability improvements once again, also here in Q4, and as you highlighted, mix effect with chassis growing. Is there anything more to add to that, or is it just the mix explaining the uptake in profitability compared to Q4 '24?
Peter Forslund
No, but from my side, we have the savings program that we have done, that we see a good effect from. We get the effect that we expect from it.
Max Bacco
Okay. Yeah.
Nice, yeah. Then looking at the order intake, -1% organically here compared to Q4 last year.
Should we read this as any implications for the coming quarter, or is it more a timing effect?
Johnny Alvarsson
I think that's mainly the coop lay.
Peter Forslund
Exactly. Yeah.
Johnny Alvarsson
It's actually door springs.
Max Bacco
Okay.
Peter Forslund
Yeah. If you look at the Beijer Tech side, there you see that the order intake is so to say on the negative side as well on the organic.
That is because in Q4 last year, it's one of the installation companies, our project-driven companies, they had a very high order intake in the end of the year, but that's project that is delivered over 2 to 3 years, meaning that there is no sequential effect from Q4 into Q1, to say. So
Johnny Alvarsson
For Beijer Tech in general, they have a lot of project businesses, big projects. That means it's hard to just measure over one quarter and see the trends.
Max Bacco
Understood. Then the final question, it's a bit broader question, but given the strategic shift that has been implemented throughout 2025 and then some rotation in terms of group CEO, but also responsible for Lesjöfors, how is the organization coping with all these changes, would you say?
Johnny Alvarsson
We are in the start of the process, but I think the new goals we have now, what we communicated, is well accepted by the organization, for sure.
Max Bacco
Sounds good. That was all from me.
Thank you very much, and I wish you a speedy recovery. Hope you get well soon.
Johnny Alvarsson
Thank you. To say, we take questions now on the
Operator
The next question comes from Carl Ragnerstam from Nordea. Please go ahead.
Carl Ragnerstam
Good morning. It's Carl here from Nordea.
A couple of questions my side as well. Firstly, touching upon chassis springs, nice to see growth, but on the other hand, it is a bit decelerating sequentially.
Obviously, we have comps, that is one factor. Do you see any inventory dynamics as we've seen historically when it's sort of a warm start to the winter that could have impacted the sales volumes in chassis, or what do you say about that?
Johnny Alvarsson
I think it's an impossible question. I can tell you we have actual problems to manufacture enough of springs, our own stock is on the low side at this moment.
I think still it is rather fantastic that we are back on levels as before Russia. That was a very important for us, very profitable business.
Carl Ragnerstam
Yeah.
Peter Forslund
If you take the sequential story, it's really what we told in Q3 that Q3 last year was, to say, very, very weak. The comp there was easy compared to what we're facing now.
Q4 is a much more normal comp.
Carl Ragnerstam
Okay. You see nothing in the sell-in, sell-out dynamic then in the distribution partner chain?
Peter Forslund
No, it's very difficult to have that kind of detailed understanding of where we're moving.
Carl Ragnerstam
That's clear. You talked about the production discontinuations, November, December.
Were you able to absorb volumes in other units, or what impact did that have in the quarter?
Peter Forslund
Exactly. We're moving the production to other facilities, but when you do that, there is always a period where you're not performing on top, to say, to cover all needs.
I think that's fully expected and fully accepted, Johnny Alvarsson (Acting President and CEO): Oh yeah,
Johnny Alvarsson
we are partly, as you maybe remember, there was a factory that burned down in Finland last year. That manufacturing moving to Sweden, but it takes time to order machines and everything, so that will take probably in 1 year something, then we will back on the same track as before.
Carl Ragnerstam
That is very clear. You also touched upon the big orders and deliveries in fire safety in Beijer Tech.
Is it possible to give any magnitude on that? Thanks.
Peter Forslund
No, it's difficult to give a magnitude, but if you look at organic growth, say that it's less than 1% or so around that number, that you add an extra percent on the organic growth from that.
Carl Ragnerstam
The final one, if I may. I've seen many AI angles in Sweden, but I didn't expect it in Beijer Alma, to be honest.
Could you talk a bit about that you touched upon, the AI chip spring opportunity? How big is that business now?
What do you see in terms of potentials when you talk to your potential or already existing customers? Thank you.
Johnny Alvarsson
I just gave it as an interest and example what's happened in the market. As with this door business went away, let's say the medical business in Asia is doing very well, but at the same time, the medical business in US, as planned, is going down, and suddenly comes this up.
That is just how the market looks like, and suddenly something else that shows up. We will have volumes, but I can't give you any figures about that.
Carl Ragnerstam
That is very clear. Thank you.
Peter Forslund
Thank you, Carl. Yeah.
Yes, as we said before that we will take, to say, questions on the financials, then we'll go into acquisition and give the strategic update, and then we will open for questions if there are any left after the strategic update as well. We thought it's good to cover a little bit of questions here on the financial side before we move on.
Please next question.
Operator
The next question comes from Carl Korsheden from DNB Carnegie. Please go ahead.
Carl Korsheden
Good morning, Johnny and Peter. If we just look a little bit on Beijer Tech, I noticed it's 8% organic growth in the quarter, which is obviously strong, but maybe not as much of a drop-through on that growth as one might have expected.
Is there anything to highlight here? Is this the transaction costs you were talking a little bit about, or is there anything in terms of a mix or similar you should also keep in mind?
Peter Forslund
No, I think transaction cost is a good one. In the last quarter, we had a very very strong from the niche technologies.
Now you have a little bit of more mixed growth, to say, there is a slightly mix effect on that, but not much. In terms of profitability, the comparison, if you add back the transaction cost, you come up a bit and it looks more reasonable.
Carl Korsheden
If we circle back a little bit more to the Lesjöfors margins, is it possible to quantify the magnitude of these different components if we, for instance, talk about the cost savings in Alcomex, possible mix effects, I don't know, medical perhaps in Asia driving something to that, and also the winding down of the US operations in Alcomex?
Johnny Alvarsson
We reduced the overhead cost rather dramatically in second quarter. It's a combination of a number of different effects, including what you mentioned also.
It adds up to these figures. Some of you know what I think is the future goal for that business when we are through.
Still we have some things to clean up after Alcomex during this year as well.
Carl Korsheden
Yep, understood. On the topic of Alcomex, is it possible to give any indication where we are currently standing in terms of margins there?
Peter Forslund
I will not comment on that detail level, but year-to-date the profitability has really moved in the right direction. We're improving from last year.
We expect to achieve a more stable '26, but as we said earlier, we are not fully there and there is volatility still to be expected there. You have to remember in the base of the door spring market, the door spring market is still what we will classify as very weak, coming back and coming up is also connected to getting volumes back.
It's one of the markets there where it's darkest, to say.
Carl Korsheden
Understood. Just finally from my side, if you just look at the demand situation overall, I think it would be helpful to hear you talk a little bit more about the current sort of market situation, maybe particularly the Lesjöfors Industrial side of it.
It seems like the organic growth in that part came down slightly sequentially here versus Q3, even if we adjust for the Alcomex comparison in the US there, and order intake maybe slightly on the weaker side or so. Just hear you talk a little bit about what you're seeing currently and maybe what we can expect in terms of trends for the next 1, 2 quarters.
Johnny Alvarsson
The Nordic part, Lesjöfors Nordic is a big part of, or important part of Lesjöfors, and they have a couple of large customers there and that is truck industry. As truck industry is down and that we suffer of, as well as ABB Robotics.
On the other hand, we have Hitachi, who is growing dramatically, but of course that is not fully compensating for the downturn in truck industry. I guess that truck industry is on its lowest level now and probably will pick up, and that will help the Nordic business.
In the Asian one, we have medical business doing well, and as I mentioned, this springs for the liquid cooling of chips. United States, it doesn't happen that much.
It is a slow business, and we have some large customers since many, many years, and they are on the low side and in industrial. Who knows about the future?
I think probably when truck industry improves, you can see that in our figures. Then we will also, of course, work normally, trying to find new projects with existing customers and also new customers.
Peter Forslund
You see a diversification between the different, to say, segments and market, just as Johnny pointing out, that you have a number of areas that are strong, then you have a number of areas that are clearly weaker. It makes it difficult to get, to say, the full picture.
It's really down to the segments. We have energy, we have defense, we have a number of segments that are strong, both in Nordics and in other places, but you also have segments that are weak.
The difference between the weak and the strong ones are fairly high at the moment.
Carl Korsheden
That's super helpful. Just maybe one one last from my side, if we just look at the, yeah, management scene now, there has been some changes recently.
How long do you expect it will take to find a new permanent CEO?
Johnny Alvarsson
It normally takes between 6 and 8 months, as last year.
Carl Korsheden
Understood. Thank you very much, that was all from me.
Johnny Alvarsson
Thank you.
Operator
The next question comes from Patrik Schwartz from Pareto Securities. Please go ahead.
Patrik Schwartz
Hi, good morning. I have a couple of questions here.
First on this move here from Finland to Lesjöfors, how should we think about capital expenditures during 2026?
Johnny Alvarsson
That part is covered by insurance. We have a very good insurance
Patrik Schwartz
That's great. Then on working capital here, there's been kind of a release here during the last quarter and also this quarter, and you've made some great improvements.
How should we think about working capital here in the near term? Of course, over time, you expect to improve profitability to working capital, but yeah, any color here in the near term?
Peter Forslund
No, it's difficult, as Johnny said a little bit in the beginning. We are starting to work with the capital efficiency, trying to get an understanding out in the organization and trying to get this as a one of the important daily tasks in many functions.
To say, it will take time for the effects for that to come in. Short term, it's very difficult to guide anything on that.
We can look at the history, but we have no better guidance than that.
Patrik Schwartz
Okay. Then also on kind of a previous question here on kind of the seasonality, of course, it's been so far a bit of a colder winter, how should we think about chassis springs here on working capital build?
As I said,
Johnny Alvarsson
we had problems with the production volume in the end of the year. We were not didn't have enough, but we have started to build a little bit more of a stock now in general in that area.
It's not dramatic, but some increase. Also, totally we have a number of different areas, it's hard to judge what the total value will be for the stock for the whole of Beijer Alma.
We will show a few targets on the future now, we can talk about also these stock values and capital efficiency. Maybe that will
Patrik Schwartz
Thank you.
Johnny Alvarsson
Yeah.
Patrik Schwartz
Thank you. Then finally, on kind of order intake here, +1% in Lesjöfors, and how was chassis springs here given that I assume a large part of drag here was related to door springs?
Peter Forslund
Exactly. We don't guide on, to say, the order intake specifically for chassis.
We only do that on the full level.
Patrik Schwartz
All right. Thank you very much, that was all for me.
Peter Forslund
Great. Then we will continue with a very short part on acquisitions and then go into the strategy part.
Johnny Alvarsson
Last year we promised the market to give financial goals beginning of this year, and we issued those yesterday after a decision in the board of Beijer Alma. Our goal is to have an EBITA growth of at least 15% a year, whereof we expect that 10% to 12% will be acquired growth and 3% to 5% organic growth.
Organic growth, of course, depending on the general market, how it develops. What will happen also now is that we will use all the companies we have around the world as a base for acquisitions in other areas than we used to like used to buy a lot of spring companies, but we will also buy companies with other smaller components around the world is our goal.
That means also we will have an even more international footprint for the future. We will also improve, try to improve the capital efficiency, put focus on that.
Our goal is to be about 50%. We are now in the level of 46, it will take a while, but we will implement measurements in the organization to make a stimulate to really work with capital efficiency in the group.
We can go to the next slide. Here you can see how we have grown over the years.
If we have this 15% growth, we will double our turnover roughly in 5 years. During last 5 years, we actually almost been there with 1.8 times between 2020 and 2025.
Our acquisition focus will be, as always has been actually, it's business-to-business. We will work industrial tech.
We will work with companies who understand, and we are looking for companies at the right price, and if the price is not right, we will not acquire. We will also work where we look at each company.
If a company has opportunity to grow its market and keep the margin, we will grow with the company. If there are companies we acquire that has a limited market geographically, we think it's better to let them stay where they are, have a nice margin, and use this money for acquisitions of other businesses instead of pushing growth at any cost.
We have and we will continue to have growth initiatives in all companies where it's suitable. As you see, we are on many places around the world, but I should say that our focus for acquisitions will be on Europe.
At this moment, I personally have experience to acquiring companies in United States and we have four companies there today, but at this moment with the market situation and political situation in United States, we will not focus on that. We will focus on acquisitions in Europe.
We don't think there are so many acquisitions targets, interesting targets in the Asia. We have done one in India last year, we have footprint in India, and there might come more in the future.
Others in Asia, it's not prioritized. In this moment, it's Europe we will have as a priority for the future.
We are going to use the local know-how we have by all these people we have in different countries. It's much easier for an Englishman to talk to an Englishman than if it's a Swede comes and talk to an Englishman and want to acquire a company.
We are also going to increase our M&A team with more resources. We are lacking resources at this moment, but we have people coming into the organization.
Peter Forslund
Great. I think we can leave it open for questions if there are any questions on the strategic part.
Operator
The next question comes from Carl Ragnerstam from Nordea. Please go ahead.
Johnny Alvarsson
Carl, are you there? No Carl.
Operator
The next question comes from Max Bacco from SEB. Please go ahead.
Max Bacco
Thank you, and hi again. Just a very short question on the capital allocation going ahead.
How will you make sure that capital is allocated in the right way when looking at Lesjöfors versus Beijer Tech? Will the capital allocation be decentralized in that way, ensuring that the right segment is prioritized, to say?
Johnny Alvarsson
I should say that all investments over a certain level is decided by me or the board. All acquisitions in Beijer Alma is decided by the board.
Max Bacco
That's very clear. That was all I had.
Thank you.
Operator
The next question comes from Johan Dahl from Danske Bank. Please go ahead.
Johan Dahl
Yes, good morning everyone. Just a question on this European acquisition pipeline.
Sort of this is a strategic shift obviously, going from industrial springs to sort of a wider scope for acquisitions. I was just thinking, can you talk about the current pipeline, the current scouting, potential short list that you have if you're targeting Europe?
I'm not talking about the Nordics, but in Europe. Secondly, can you also talk about a bit more specifically on the resources you're aiming to add, and incremental cost, investment to sort of get this going in Beijer Alma?
Thanks.
Johnny Alvarsson
At this moment, we have pinpointed four persons in Europe who already are in the organization, has been there for quite a while. Then we have one recruitment going on on central level, so that's where we start.
The list today is not that long. This will happen during the year, we are in a startup phase now.
Johan Dahl
Would you say, Johnny, that, just looking maybe one or 1 or 2 years ahead, does it seem fair to assume that Beijer Tech with its Nordic franchise being much more developed pipeline, I guess, that perhaps more will happen there in the sort of short term compared to in Europe, or Do you have any input there?
Johnny Alvarsson
Depending on how many opportunities there are in the Nordic, but even Beijer Tech might look outside Nordic. Very short term, I should say it's more in Beijer Tech, but in 1 and 1/2 year, I expect it to be more in the other area.
Johan Dahl
Thanks.
Operator
The next question comes from Carl Ragnerstam from Nordea. Please go ahead.
Carl Ragnerstam
Hi, it's Carl here. Can you hear me?
Peter Forslund
We hear you, Carl. Yes, we hear you.
Carl Ragnerstam
Great. Sorry, couldn't unmute for some reason.
Looking at the EBITA growth, 15% over a cycle, you said 3% to 5% organic. If you are a top-line company that is typically generating GDP-plus, right, you've done that historically, don't you think it's a bit prudent to be at just 3% to 5% organic on the EBITA side?
Johnny Alvarsson
It's over a business cycle, and we always strive to be above as you say. Can you tell me what the organic growth or the GDP growth will be next year in Europe?
I can tell you where we're going. It's just an indication that we see that the majority of the growth will come from acquisitions, but of course we will push the organic growth as well.
It's just an indication, it's not the exact figure.
Carl Ragnerstam
It's not an indication of how you see the drop-through of the potential volumes coming?
Johnny Alvarsson
No. No.
Carl Ragnerstam
Very good. Also on your new financial targets, obviously, we know it from the Bergman & Beving sphere, I guess.
We've seen other companies implementing similar targets, some successful, some less. My question is, how will you work with these financial targets to really get them deep into the organization, the subsidiaries, each and every employee?
Will you incentivize every manager, potential branch manager, on the exact same metrics, or how will you work with the financial targets to receive the profit over working capital where you still have quite some upside to?
Johnny Alvarsson
Yes, our intention is to have an incentive program for each MD, managing director of the companies, to improve their targets on each company from where they start. Some are on a very high level and some are on a lower level, but the intention is to implement it in every company, yes.
On an MD level.
Carl Ragnerstam
When will that happen, you think?
Johnny Alvarsson
During spring.
Carl Ragnerstam
That is very clear. Thank you, all for me.
Operator
The next question comes from Carl Korsheden from DNB Carnegie. Please go ahead.
Carl Korsheden
Hi again. Just follow-up on the financial targets.
When you're talking about this 15% over a business cycle, are you sort of expecting to remain your current dividend policy as well or do you think you will have to reduce that in order to reach this target? Also, if you could elaborate or say anything in terms of leverage profile, do you have an internal target of how high you can go in terms of net debt to EBITDA or how do you see that?
Peter Forslund
Dividend policy stays as is. There will be no change to dividend policy.
We will stay where we are. When it comes to the gearing and the debt, we have been prudent on going above two.
That's, to say, I wouldn't call it an internal target, but the company has been prudent in terms of the leverage. I think it's fair to say that we are striving to be at the levels around two or slightly above.
It's not a gearing story where we will gear it up to four and use the gearing to fund the growth. It's about generating good cash flows in the business and invest them wisely over time.
That's what it's about.
Carl Korsheden
Got it. Just a follow-up maybe, yeah, you sort of mentioned that Beijer Tech might also be acquiring outside the Nordics eventually.
Just when you're speaking about these companies, not just in springs, but other components as well, are you primarily then targeting companies with their own sort of production capabilities, or can it also be sort of technical trading companies, or do you have any ideal profile for that?
Johnny Alvarsson
The answer is yes, yes, yes.
Carl Korsheden
That's helpful. Thank you very much, that was all for me.
Operator
As a reminder, if you wish to ask a question, please dial pound key 5 on your telephone keypad. There are no more questions at this time, I hand the conference back to the speakers for closing comments.
Peter Forslund
Great, Johnny.
Johnny Alvarsson
Thank you for the interest you showed in us and well, unusually many questions, happy for that. I see you in a quarter.
Thank you and goodbye.
Peter Forslund
Bye.
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