Odfjell SE Class A

Odfjell SE Class A

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Q4 FY2025 · Earnings Call TranscriptFebruary 12, 2026

Harald Fotland

Good morning again, everyone. First and foremost, I apologize for this delay, which is due to some technical issues here at the Continental Hotel in Oslo.

We are today presenting our fourth quarter results and the preliminary full year results in front of a live audience here in Oslo, and I'm very pleased to welcome our loyal shareholders, the banks, we have the analysts here, and also the journalists. A heartily welcome to all of you.

The presentation today follows a traditional agenda. I will take you quickly through the highlights, and then my colleague Terje Iversen will take you through our financial performance, and I will summarize this presentation with an operational review and also an market update and our prospects for the future.

Then turning to the highlights, I'm once again very happy that we delivered a quarter where we had no serious incidents in our fleet. We delivered time charter earnings of $168 million, and this compares to 173 in the previous quarter.

Time charter earnings per day were down less than 1%. We produced $27,978 in the fourth quarter, and this compares to 28,174 in the third quarter.

EBIT was $53 million, this compares to $59 million, and the net result contribution from Odfjell Terminals was 1.8 versus 2.6 in the previous quarter. We had a net result of $38 million, this compares to 43 in the previous quarter, and adjusted for one-off items, we had 38 versus 42.

We also during the quarter launched the world's first operational green corridor between Brazil and Europe. This corridor is self-funded, and we did this to accelerate the implementation of biofuel in deep-sea shipping.

I will come back to that later in my presentation. We also concluded contracts for two more supersegregators.

They will be delivered in '28 and '29. Finally, the board approved a dividend of 48 cents—50 cents—48 cents per share on our net adjusted result for the second half of '25.

If we look at the year in total, we had a financial result of $155 million, and the total dividends for the year is 98 cents, which then amounts to $78 million. In total during the year, we ordered four newbuildings on time charter, and we also launched in the last quarter of last year, then we formalized the cooperation with our Japanese tonnage providers, and now we in total have 22 newbuildings on order, of which 10 will be delivered in 2026.

I will also come back to that later in my presentation. The AER was 6.8 through the year, and that is a 4.2% improvement compared to 2024.

The outlook, we expect a slight reduction in our net result, underlying net result, compared to the fourth quarter. By that, I give the word to Terje, who will take you through our financial performance.

Thank you.

Terje Iversen

Thank you, Harald, and good morning to all of you. I will, as usual, start with income statement for this quarter.

As Harald mentioned, we delivered time charter earnings of $168 million this quarter, which is 3% down compared to the third quarter. Looking behind the figures, we saw that the time charter rate per day was quite unchanged compared to the third quarter, and also the freight rate per ton was quite at the same level as in the third quarter.

Actually, the reduction in time charter earnings had mainly to do with fewer commercial days in the fourth quarter compared to the third quarter. On time charter expenses, that ended at 7.4, slightly down compared to the third quarter, while we saw that operating expenses ended at 50.2, very stable compared to previous quarter, while share of net result from associate joint ventures ended at 1.8 compared to $2.6 million.

G&A increased somewhat from 20 to $23.5 million. A few reasons for that.

One is that we had higher activity this quarter with also higher legal expenses. We also had some year-end adjustment of provisions for short-term incentive programs for the employees, and we also had some adjustment on pension costs this quarter, leading to a somewhat higher G&A this quarter compared to what you should expect in a normal quarter.

That leads to an EBITDA of $88.9 million. Depreciation, 36.3, slightly down compared to third quarter, main reason being that we sold one vessel in end of the last year and also that we had some tax credits from some dry-docking activities in Brazil that we took advantage of in the fourth quarter.

That reduced our depreciation in that quarter. That leaves an EBIT of $52.6 million compared to 59.

Net interest expenses decreased to 13.9 compared to 15.5, main reason being that we have slightly reduction in our debt. We have better margins on our loan and also a lower SOFR this quarter than in the previous quarters.

Then after other financial items and taxes, we are then delivering a net result of $38 million, which is then down $5 million compared to last quarter. Also adjusting for net nonrecurring items being very limited, we ended then with a net result also adjusted at $38 million in the fourth quarter.

Looking at time charter earnings compared to the cash break-even, we see that time charter earnings per day ended at around $28,000 this quarter, slightly down from the previous quarter, as mentioned. Looking at cash break-even in the fourth quarter, we ended at 21,817 compared to just about 22,000 in the third quarter.

Looking at the 12 months rolling average, we are then close to $23,000 in cash break-even. Decrease this quarter mainly driven by lower dry-docking activity than in the previous quarter and also slightly lower interest expenses.

We have a difference between the time charter earnings and the cash break-even of around $5,000 per day. Looking at our time charter fleet, that also correspond very much to the same figure, looking at the 2025 figures.

Looking at the same long-term time charter vessels, the total in 2025 delivered net results for these vessels around $38 million in 2025. Going forward, we expect slight improvement in the cash break-even to be around 22,200 in average for 2026.

The balance sheet, not that much to report on. We saw a slight decrease in total values, ships and newbuilding contracts, due to sale of Bow Cedar and also of course also depreciations.

It's also worth noticing that we are increasing the investments in associate joint ventures from 173 to $183 million, main reason being the new joint venture, Odfjell Catamarca Maritime, and also the working capital that we are injecting into that joint venture, or have injected during the quarter. Cash and cash equivalents increased somewhat to $149 million end of 2025.

If we include then undrawn loan facilities, we have available cash of around $344 million end of 2025. Equity increased with $36 million, being the comprehensive income for the quarter, and we are close to $1 billion in book equity, and compared to a total asset of around 2 billion, we are then close to 50% book equity per end of 2025.

On the debt side, we are continuing to reduce our debt, and we did an extraordinary debt repayment of $30 million in the fourth quarter. Cash flow, we had quite strong cash flow, I would say, this quarter, ending at $74 million, up compared to the third quarter, main reason being that we have stable working capital this quarter, while we had an increase of the working capital in the third quarter that impacted the operational cash flow.

Cash flow from investing activities ended at -$6.4 million, positive of course impacted by the sale of Bow Cedar, with $9.8 million then positively impacting the cash flow for investing activities in the quarter. On the financing side, we are continuing to reduce debt, as mentioned, and we did this extraordinary debt repayment, leading to negative cash flow from financing of 54.9 in the quarter.

In total, we are then ending with 12.7 in positive cash flow change in cash during this fourth quarter. Looking at the more long-term development on the free cash flow, free cash flow being the cash that is available for debt service and equity, we see that we continue to deliver quite strong free cash flow.

This quarter ended with a free cash flow of $68 million compared to 42 in the third quarter. Again, of course positively impacted by the sale of this vessel and also negatively impacted by the joint venture working capital that we injected in this quarter.

Looking at the 12 months rolling free cash flow, we are around $58.2 million, and if we adjust for debt repayments related to right-of-use assets, we are around $45.6 million in the fourth quarter. This is a bit busy slide.

I will take you through it. Looking at the charts at the top, this is showing the scheduled repayments of interest-bearing debt per end of 2025.

As you can see, we have some debt repayments in the first quarter of 2026 that has been taken care of already with a new financing facility that we are drawing on these days. Except for that, we have very limited debt repayments in excess of ordinary installments during the coming years until end of 2026, 2027, we have a small balloon that we of course will be capable of taking care of.

Then in the middle of this, we have a chart showing the expected development of interest-bearing debt. As you can see, we are around $709 million interest-bearing debt end of fourth quarter.

We expect a slight increase in that figure during 2026 based on taking delivery of one newbuilding and also Bow Hercules, we're drawing new debt on these vessels. Then of course we are also including ordinary repayments installments here.

Also then looking further into the future, we expect interest-bearing debt to continue to decline into '27 and '28. Then on the bottom here, we have included what is expected or projected book debt related to right-of-use assets.

As we have talked about, we have around 20 vessels that are going to be delivered on long-term time charters the coming years, and here we are projecting how will the balance sheet look when these are being delivered to the company. End of 2025, we had $226 million in so-called debt related to right-of-use assets.

When we are taking nine new vessels into our operations in 2026, that amount will increase to around 384 and increase further to 587 then in year-end 2027 before it's stabilizing. Then we have taken delivery of all the new 20 vessels on new long-term time charters, and the debt or the kind of the capital elements of that commitments are then being included in this forecast.

This is summarizing the capex going forward and the time charter commitments. We have talked about Bow Hercules already has been taking into our books start of this year.

We acquired that vessel with cash, but it will be then financed with the new bank facility that we are drawing on these days. We have two other newbuildings on order that will be delivered in '26 and '27, summarizing to $82.3 million.

Except for that, we have then these new time charter vessels that are going to be delivered in the coming years. Here we are showing at the bottom the chart or this table showing what are the time charter commitments that we have on or will take into account on our balance sheet going forward and also what will be the nominal time charter rates to be paid under these time charters.

If we summarize the time charters to be paid for these 20 vessels, we are at around $1.1 billion for the next seven, eight years in total for these 20 vessels that has not been delivered just yet. On our balance sheet, this will be booked as right-of-use assets, and we will then include $237 million in 2026 as new right-of-use assets, and that will summarize in total for these vessels to 625 during the next two years.

As we have mentioned a few times before, these 20 vessels, that accounts for 40% of the current order book in our core segment. Then we leave the word to you again, Harald.

Harald Fotland

Thank you. Then I will continue with an operational review.

I think the big headline here is a stable development. We have stable volumes, and we also have stable contract coverage.

The slight reduction that we see in the fourth quarter is is simply a consequence of 139 fewer commercial days. All in all, I would say a very stable development.

If we look at time charter earnings, as mentioned, we are also seeing stable development in our Odfix index, and that is not it's not totally comparable to the to the Clarksons Index, because the Odfix index is is is showing a quarterly average, while the the Clarksons Index is showing the difference between the first day of the month and the last of the quarter and the last day of the quarter. The 4.2% increase that we see in in in in the Clarksons Index is reflecting the uptick that we saw towards the end of of the quarter.

When we look at the volumes, we see a slight increase in specialty chemicals, which is kind of the bread and butter for for for our activities. That's where we want to be, and that's the the most sophisticated and and difficult chemicals to carry.

We saw a small increase in in those volumes. We saw stable commodity volumes, those are the easy chemicals, large volumes, and and relatively easy to carry.

Then in our book, we saw a slight decrease when it comes to to the veg oils, which is a less demanding cargoes to carry, and we had a stable development when it comes to CPP. CPP in Odfjell is typically utilized for repositioning of our ships, and it's also utilized for for handling waiting time for for vessels that are awaiting to be implemented in in in a new trade.

All in all, a stable development. Turning to to sustainability and our carbon index, we saw an average both for the quarter and and for the year in total of an AER of 6.8, and we are well satisfied with that.

It's 4.2%, I think, lower than than 2024. I think the main observation here is is that this curve is starting to to flatten out.

You cannot you cannot energy efficiency yourself to zero, we have implemented several projects when it comes to operational improvements. We have done several improvements when it comes to technical improvements, and we are now turning to biofuel as as the third leg of of our strive to to to to achieve net zero.

In in December, we we launched the first operational green corridor in the world between Brazil and Europe. First, what is a green corridor?

It's a green corridor is simply a trade lane where we are utilizing greener fuels. Then secondly, why did we choose this trade lane?

First, Brazil is the second largest producer of of biofuel in the world, second only to the US, and also Norway has an MOU with Brazil where the focus is on developing a a green corridor. Secondly, we chose Europe as the ending point simply because that would allow us to utilize the FuelEU Maritime.

That is the background for choosing Brazil and Europe as as for the purpose of of this corridor. The voyage is approximately 5,000 nautical miles.

It takes 40 days to to conduct that voyage, and we expect to to have in average approximately one voyage per month. This corridor was started already in in November, and we are now at the fourth voyage with that corridor being implemented.

We are we are dedicated and to to to to continue this trade. Of course, if we want to make this trade greener, we we will have to to cooperate with all the other stakeholders in the trade to to to make that happen.

I'm very pleased to see that we have very constructive and and good dialogues with all the stakeholders involved. We have positive responses from the ports, where we look at making the the port rotations more efficient.

We have positive dialogues with our customers to see whether we can further utilize the ships that are employed in in in this trade, and we also have very positive feedback from from the governments both in Brazil, in in Europe, and in in Norway, we are we are quite confident that this is something that that can be developed further. We also see that other ports around the world are are contacting us and and asking whether we can do something similar in in in their areas of the world.

This is something that that we are considering, but but first and foremost, we want to to to get this corridor in place and and further develop it. We also are proud that that we managed, through this initiative, we managed to to establish the first continuous supply of of biofuel out of of Rio Grande.

Because of our offtake agreement, they now have a continuous supply of fuel from that port, and we are in dialogue with other ports in in Brazil to see whether the same can be achieved there. Plenty of positive effects of this initiative.

Turning to our tank terminals, that is more stable business, I would say. We had an occupancy rate of 96% in in the in the fourth quarter, which is more or less the same as we had throughout 2025.

The consolidated EBITDA was $7.7 million, and this is down $1.3 million compared to the third quarter. Net result for the fourth quarter was at $1 million, and this compares to adjusted net result of 1.5 million.

For the full year, the terminal reported a consolidated net loss of 1.6, and on an adjusted basis, the net result was 9.1. The outlook is stable, and when we then turn to the expansion projects, we have had several successful expansion projects throughout the years, and we have now recently completed tank pit Q at at our Noord Natie terminal in in Antwerp, and we are now carrying on with tank pit S, which will add 18 duplex steel tanks to the capacity in in in in Antwerp.

A very solid development on on that terminal. In Korea, at the Ulsan terminal, we also have an expansion project ongoing, the so-called E5 expansion, where we are building almost 90,000 cubic meters of new capacity.

A lot of positive developments going on on the terminal side, with an underlying extremely stable business that is supporting this development. Then we turn to the market update and our prospects for for the future, starting with the development in the spot rates.

What we see here is that we saw a positive development west of Suez with with rates going up, particularly towards the end of the quarter, and we also saw a stabilizing development in in in east of Suez with a smaller uptick towards the end of the quarter. All in all, there is positive momentum, or there was positive momentum in in the markets.

Turning to the swing tonnage, the swing tonnage is now is now at absolute minimum levels. I think what's left on on on on on the swing tonnage side is of course those those vessels that are always trading with with chemicals, like Odfjell's six coated vessels, coated MRs.

They are they are only employed in in in chemicals, and then there is a portion of vessels that are trading trading chemicals in one direction and then CPP in the opposite direction. Those vessels are still doing that business, but the remaining vessels, those that are swinging 100% back and forth, it's my impression that that that all of them are gone.

The reason for that is seen on the on your left-hand side, where we see that the MR rates have seen a very positive development over actually the past year. Looking at the order book, as we've said before, the order book stands at at 22% of the total sailing fleet, and Odfjell has a 14% share of of of that order book.

Looking at the two most important segments, the medium stainless steel and the supersegregators, we see that the the majority of the fleet increase is coming in in that segment. When we look at the supersegregators, where Odfjell has a 40% market share, here we see a relatively flat development, and and what's being built is is mainly replacement tonnage for for supersegregators being phased out.

Most of the vessels that that that are being phased out is is now the so-called Kvaerner class, originally 24 vessels that was built between '93 and 2012, and those vessels are slowly and gradually being phased out. We will see an increase on the medium segment, and and we will see a flat development in the supersegregator segment.

If we then turn to Odfjell's order book more specifically, we have 22 vessels on on order: 20 stainless steel vessels and two coated MRs, coated with with MarineLINE. They will be delivered between now and 2029.

There are 10 vessels being delivered this year, nine vessels being delivered next year, and then two vessels in '28 and one vessel in '29. Of those vessels, there are 10 25,000 tonners, there are 10 supersegregators, and there are the two mentioned MarineLINE coated MRs.

We also have a balance of 12 vessels, and those 12 vessels are vessels that that either will complete their their time charter arrangement with us or they will reach an age of 25, 27.5, or 30 years of age, which means that we have the the ability or the opportunity to to to consider lifetime extension programs. Now that means that of the 22 vessels, 12 vessels can balance the the development of of our fleet, and we will end up in 2030 with somewhere between 92 and 80 vessels in our fleet.

Then turning to to the outlook, as we all know, we have seen quite significant market disruptions during the year, and those are rooted in geopolitical events, they are rooted in in tariff tariff uncertainties, and and they are rooted in consequences of that being customers testing out new trades, new customers, and new ways of of of trading and selling their their volumes. However, volumes have nevertheless been relatively stable, but we've seen some some new and interesting opportunities in the wake of all this turbulence that we've observed.

The chemical tanker market is very closely connected to world GDP, and in 2026, the expectation is a world GDP growth of 3.3%. The Red Sea, we originally saw some early signs that that the compliant fleet would return to to transiting the Red Sea.

Then we had a container operator that started transiting in December. We had another container operator who ceased trading through through the Red Sea in in also in December.

We had the Houthis that were repeating their threats against civilian merchant shipping. Now we have the situation in Iran.

The sum of that is that we are not as optimistic as as we were 6 to 8 weeks ago, and we we expect that it will still take some time before we can sail through the Red Sea. When it comes to the fleet development, we've been through that.

There will be an increase in the fleet over the next 12 to 18 months, particularly within the medium stainless steel segments. We also see that that the crackdown on the shadow fleet is impacting crude oil earnings and CPP earnings.

We have lately seen that that the US has taken a significantly tougher stance against shadow fleet vessels. We've seen France taking action against shadow fleet vessels.

We've seen Germany taking action against shadow fleet vessels. This is, of course, impacting the flow of sanctioned oil, which is again impacting the flow of unsanctioned oil.

All in all, we anticipate that that the positive momentum due to the crackdown on on the shadow fleet will continue during the first six months this year. All in all, we expect an upswing on on the chemical trade.

We we expect positive development in world GDP. We do not foresee any more consequences of of all those tariff discussions.

There will be an increase in our fleet in in the chemical tanker fleet this year, and we expect the swing tonnage to to remain outside our business. To summarize this presentation, we delivered a net result of $38 million, this compares to to 43 in the third quarter.

On the tanker side, we saw a very small reduction in in time charter earnings per day, and we had slightly fewer days, which which gave a small reduction in our aggregated time charter earnings. The the the small reduction in in total volumes is is due to fewer commercial days.

When it comes to contract renewals, we this is not scientific business to compare one contract with with another, but all in all, we saw a slight decrease in in the contracts that were renewed during the fourth quarter, and that was approximately 25% of our total contract volumes. On the terminal side, we had a modest decline in activity in the fourth quarter, but all in all, it is very stable business, and we expect it to be stable also going forward.

We saw a strengthening of of freight rates, spot rates, towards the end of the fourth quarter. It's the market is is is not easy to predict these days, but we haven't seen that market going down, at least since since New Year.

Slight increase in activity, and as mentioned, the swing tonnage is is not at all impacting our business these days. All in all, we expect the first quarter to show underlying results that are slightly slightly below what we saw in in the fourth quarter.

That concludes our presentation, and we are now open for questions from the audience and also questions being submitted through the webcast.

Operator

We'll start with if there's any questions from the audience here. If not, we will proceed with the questions being received online, and of course, feel free to raise your hands if you have a question afterwards.

The first question we have received is on the COA renewals, and I'm just reading the question here: 'You mentioned an active quarter on COA renewals. How many COAs were renewed, and at what renewal rates?

How did these compare to third quarter '25 renewal rates?'

Harald Fotland

I don't have the exact number of contracts that were renewed in the fourth quarter, but I would anticipate that we are somewhere between 15 and 25 contracts. We had a portion that were renewed unchanged in line with what was agreed in the contract one year ago.

We have also had renewals where we have seen reductions above 5%, I would say, and then we have some contracts where we had smaller reductions. It's not easy to compare one contract year with the previous contract year because normally there is an adjustment to the ports being called, there are adjustments to the volumes, and so on.

Therefore, it's not exact science to compare one contract year with the previous contract year. All in all, I think it's fair to say that we've seen a slight decrease in our average freight rates for the contracts that have been renewed.

Operator

Thank you. The next question is on the supply side, and the question is: 'There are many chemical ships over 25 years of age.

What is your outlook on recycling this year?' I guess we showed some figures on that on the order book slide, but...

Harald Fotland

When it comes to the recycling decision, there is a balance between what the ships are earning and what the recycling price is. That calculation has to be positive before a shipowner makes the decision to recycle a ship.

The decision points, they will come at the age of 25, where the ship is going through dry dock, and then the shipowner has to make a decision: Do I take this ship through the dry dock, or do I recycle? The next decision point—and then you have to have a kind of a 2.5-year future, because the next dry dock is coming at 27.5, and that is when you have to make the second decision whether you will take this vessel through dry dock or not.

Then the third decision point is normally at 30 years, and that's where we see most of the European-built chemical tankers being recycled. Right now, I think many shipowners with aging tonnage, they make the calculation, and they say that it's still more money to be earned if we postpone recycling.

I think that is why we see surprisingly little recycling. Hope that answered the question.

Operator

The next one is on the demand side, and the question is: 'Are there indicators other than GDP you think closely follow your performance?' I guess, not if this is referring to trade flows or things like that, but...

Harald Fotland

Yeah. I think the most important denominator is world GDP, and that is kind of the long-term indicator for where chemical tankers are heading.

The reason for that is simply the fact that 96% of the world's commercial goods, they need liquid chemicals to be produced. The more goods that are being sold, the more chemicals are needed in the production process.

That link is, I think, very clear. I think the second indicator, which is where we probably have to add a 6-month delay or something, is development on the CPP side, the MR market.

When the MR market is going up, typically it takes out the swing tonnage, and then slowly, slowly the chemical tankers are following suit. There is typically a delay in this development.

I would say that the first segment that will experience that rates are going up are the medium-sized vessels with shorter voyages, which means that they are starting a new voyage earlier than the large vessels. They will see the upswing first.

Then the supersegregators, which typically have voyages with 2 to 3 months of duration, it will have a slower impact on that segment, and that impact is also delayed because 50% of the cargo is already with contract rates that were maybe agreed one year ago. Depends on the segment how fast you will see a correlation between MRs and chemical tankers.

Operator

Thank you. We have a few more questions here coming in.

The next one is regarding the Red Sea, and the question is: 'Do you think that Red—' It says 'the Red Sea', but I guess a Red Sea reopening would be a net positive or negative for our performance?

Harald Fotland

You tell me. No, I think and we don't know the exact answer, but it has been indicated that the reopening of the Red Sea will add somewhere between two sorry, 1% and 2% of capacity to the world's chemical tanker fleet.

That is, of course, a capacity addition, and it should have a negative impact on earnings. Then again, it will also boost the trades between Europe and the Middle East, and to some extent, Asia, because it's more easy to transport products that way.

Whether you will have a 1% to 2% effect, I think the effect will be smaller than that. For many trades, it is an advantage that that passage is being reopened.

Operator

Thank you. Now for the last question from the online Q&A here: 'With our 10 new deliveries in 2026, bringing tonnage into a market with many ships and minimal recycling, on what routes do you plan to deploy the ships?'

Harald Fotland

Good question. As mentioned, we have 10 vessels being delivered throughout the year.

Those are being spread evenly throughout the year, meaning that we in average have more or less one vessel per month. In total for 2026, this will add 12% of added commercial days to our fleet.

Those who can calculate will see that means that we will also have to add some approximately 1.5 million tons of additional cargo. All of those vessels are already scheduled into our fleet.

We have a plan for every single commercial day, so that project or that fleet implementation is well taken care of.

Operator

Okay. Thank you.

We have one question here. Just let me hand you the mic so that people online can hear you.

Ole Stenhagen

Thank you. Ulrik Bak in SEB.

You said that you're negotiating contracts a little bit down—

Harald Fotland

Sorry, I didn't hear.

Ole Stenhagen

You said that you're negotiating new contracts or renewing contracts a little bit softer, but mainly are you extending durations? Are you still addressing terms, improving terms?

Because even if rates go down a little bit, customers are still paying a lot better than they've done for maybe 15 years or something.

Harald Fotland

It's correct. The rates are still at acceptable levels, I would say, even if we see a slight decline in freight rates.

Freight rates also has to be seen in combination with all the other terms in our contracts. Right now, I think most of the chemical producers in the world are losing money, there is an extremely strong focus on the freight rate itself, and I would say less focus on other terms in the contract.

Did that answer your question?

Ole Stenhagen

What about duration?

Harald Fotland

Duration is a good question. I would say that the majority of the contract customers are trying to achieve the similar freight rates as their competitors, and therefore there is a certain reluctance to locking in the freight over longer periods.

Typically, there are one-year contracts, but there are options to extend those contracts into the future. Few contracts have a clear duration longer than one year, and that connects to competition between the producers.

Then again, many of those contracts that are with us have been with us for decades. There is a kind of an interdependence on this logistics chain.

We have a question here.

Jørgen Engh

Yes. Hello, this is Jørgen Lian from DNB Carnegie.

Rates are obviously strong in an historical context, but still far below the '23, '24 highs, and despite sort of swing tonnage being at this historical low levels that you pointed at during your presentation, what do you really see as the missing part for the market to really spark to the upside at the current state?

Harald Fotland

What are the—

Jørgen Engh

What's sort of the missing part in the market to really spark rates back to '23, '24 levels?

Harald Fotland

I would say that what I'm missing today is the spillover effect from crude and CPP into chemical tankers. I'm surprised that we haven't seen that spillover already when you see the crackdown on the shadow fleet and the effects that has had on the large tanker vessels.

Then you can say that, well, swing tonnage is so low, there are not any swing vessels left to swing over. Then there would be an expectation that the kind of the most suitable chemical tankers would start to swing into CPP.

I think in a way what we are waiting for is the effect of this significant impact that we see on the large tanker vessels. Also I could also add to that that there is a certain imbalance in how the chemical tanker fleet is distributed around the world right now.

You see that there has been an upswing in west of Suez, and that is of course because there is less tonnage available west of Suez. Then due to all the noise from the tariffs and geopolitics and so on, we've seen an increase of tonnage east of Suez, and that is having an impact particularly on the exports out of the Middle East.

Okay. Any other questions?

No? Then that concludes our Q&A, and thank you for coming here today, and thank you for everyone listening online.

Absolutely. Thank you for coming, that is very much appreciated.

Thank you.