Canadian Pacific Kansas City Limited

Canadian Pacific Kansas City Limited

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Oct 28Next Earn

Q4 FY2025 · Earnings Call TranscriptJanuary 28, 2026

Operator

Good afternoon. My name is Angela, and I will be your conference operator today.

At this time, I would like to welcome everyone to CPKC's fourth-quarter and full-year 2025 conference call. The slides accompanying today's call are available at investor.cpkcr.com.

All lines have been placed on mute to prevent any background noise. After the speakers' remarks, there will be a question-and-answer session.

If you would like to ask a question, simply press star then the number one on your telephone keypad. If you would like to withdraw your question, press star two.

I would now like to introduce Chris De Bruyn, Vice President Capital Markets, to begin the conference call.

Chris de Bruyn

Thank you, Angela. Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining us today.

Before we begin, I want to remind you this presentation contains forward-looking information. Actual results may differ.

The risks, uncertainties, and other factors that could influence actual results are described on slide two, in the earnings release filed with Canadian and U.S. regulators.

This presentation also contains non-GAAP measures outlined on slide three. With me here today is Keith Creel, our President and Chief Executive Officer; Nadeem Velani, our Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer; John Brooks, our Executive Vice President and Chief Marketing Officer; and Mark Redd, our Executive Vice President and Chief Operating Officer.

The formal remarks will be followed by Q&A. In the interest of time, we would appreciate you limit your questions to one.

It is now my pleasure to introduce our President and CEO, Mr. Keith Creel.

Keith Creel

Thanks, Chris, and good afternoon. Thank everyone for joining us to review our fourth-quarter results as well as full-year results and allow our team to share how we see an exciting 2026 playing out.

Let me start by expressing gratitude and thanks to the 20,000 strong CPKC family, who, through their dedication, hard work, and sacrifice, allow us to create the results that we're honored to share today. I can tell you this past week, railroading is a demanding way of life.

It's a time-consuming way of life. Times like we have navigated to this past week, and in fact, navigate on the daily in Canada in the winter operation reminds me of just how much sacrifice that takes, which I have the deepest amount of respect and appreciation for.

Onto the results. For the fourth quarter, revenue of $3.9 billion, which is up 1% versus last year; an industry-best operating ratio of 55.9%, 120 basis points of improvement; and earnings per share of $1.33, up 3% versus last year.

I'm particularly proud of the job the team did in the quarter in the face of a demand softening in a number of areas, and how they honored our mantra of controlling what we can control, controlling our cost structure. The team demonstrated exceptional execution that allowed us to produce the results we produced on the operating ratio side and are set up and carrying momentum well into 2026.

As Mark's going to speak to, I also want to applaud the operating team for producing record results across several of our key operating metrics in the quarter. Most importantly, we produced another year of record safety performance.

Our network's running well, it's in great position to execute on the growth opportunities that we have lying ahead of us. Now let's turn our attention to the full-year results: revenue, $15.1 billion, which is up 4%; volume growth of 4% as well; operating ratio at industry best at 59.9%, a clear industry-best improvement of 140 basis points for the year; core EPS of $4.61, which is up 8%.

On '26 outlook, as we look forward on 2026, the way we see it unfolding, we fully expect to deliver another year of mid-single-digit volume growth, enabled by the strength in our bulk business, and particularly the unique growth drivers this franchise has, which John will speak to. We expect to continue improving margins and ultimately deliver low double-digit earnings growth.

For clarity, this outlook does not assume that we get much out of the macro. Our growth drivers are unique to CPKC, and record grain harvesting in Canada in the U.S.

provide strong and a differentiated base of business. Our story is about continuing to do what we do best: controlling what we can control and executing our PSR model, which remains key to setting CPKC apart and allows us to shine in times of uncertainty.

We saw that in the results of the last quarter, and you'll continue to see that in 2026. On the growth outlook, there are a lot of things to get excited about, uniquely enabled by this network.

John will talk about them in more detail, but I'll highlight a few. Grain harvest, an all-time record in Canada, 85 million metric tons versus the previous record of 78 million metric tons, a significant amount of grain to move, it's carried into the full year of 2026.

Record harvest both in Canada and the U.S., the grain starting to move now in earnest, and again, we're going to be busy for the balance of this year moving grain. Continued growth in intermodal, our MMX 180 181, the fastest and most reliable service in the industry between the Midwest and deep into Mexico continues to grow and do extremely well.

We're bringing that same model to create Mexico and the U.S. Southeast in partnership with CSX in our Southeast Mexico express service.

That business is just getting started to moving, and with our partners, we see a trend of opportunity for growth over that corridor. We've created an industry-best transit time in partnership with CSX from Atlanta to Dallas over the Meridian Speedway and from Atlanta to Monterrey.

Truck-competitive to Dallas and superior to truck into Mexico. It can't be replicated by truck into Mexico.

We're also excited about the Americold business that's ramping up this year, along with the continued growth on the international intermodal side with Gemini, and also continued growth in our automotive franchise. On the capital side, we're going to continue to invest to support the growth.

Last week, we announced continued investment for the locomotives, 100 new locomotives joining the fleet in 2026, in addition to the 100 that we added in 2025. With the combination of our strong top-line growth, disciplined investment, and our continued cost and efficiency improvements, it's put us in an advantageous position to return cash to shareholders, which you just witnessed as we announced a 5% share buyback program for 2026.

In closing, I'm extremely proud of what we produced amidst a ton of volatility in 2025, and we're super excited about the opportunities ahead. I'll remind you that over the past 2 years, this franchise has outperformed the industry in revenue growth, outperformed the industry in earnings growth.

We've got an exciting set up to continue to generate industry-leading performance in 2026 as well. With that, I'm going to turn it over to Mark for some color on the operations, John to give you a little insight on the markets, Nadeem on the financial details, and then we'll open it up for Q&A.

Mark, over to you. All right,

Mark Redd

thank you, Keith, and good afternoon. I want to begin by recognizing the operating employees whose commitments to safe, reliable, efficient service continues to drive the strong performance of this network.

The operating team did a tremendous job this quarter in delivering these results. Turning to the quarter, our network performed exceptionally well, and achieved record results across a number of key metrics, including train weight, train speed, locomotive productivity, and car velocity.

These improvements translate to faster cycle times, greater network capacity, and faster, more reliable customer service. Proud to announce that 10 years in a row, CPKC has earned Amtrak's Best Carrier designation with an A+ performance.

We're the only railroad with this distinction, and we appreciate the recognition from our valued partner. Taking a step back on progress, we have made substantial operating gains since the merger.

When comparing our 2025 operational performance versus the time and merger of 2023, our combined network is 13% faster, locomotives is 13% more productive, our car velocity is nearly 14% stronger. The improvement south of Kansas City is even more pronounced.

Looking at 2025, speeds being over 25% better, locomotive productivity improved roughly 20%. Moving forward, our operating systems, processes aligned across Canada and the U.S., we expect to deliver additional improvement in 2026.

The foundation that we have built positions us for consistent execution and reliable service as values continue to grow. Now turning to safety for the quarter, FRA train accident frequency was 0.91, which is 12% better; FRA personal injuries was 1.05, 22% increase.

When I look at full year 2025, our FRA train accident was 0.85, 16% better; personal injuries was 0.92, was 3% better. I continue to be encouraged by the industry-leading performance for the third year in a row, CPKC has led lowest FRA reportable train accident frequency across the Class 1 railroads, building upon CP's legacy of 17 consecutive years.

All in all, it's 2 decades of best-in-class. These results reflect the strength that we have in our HomeSafe culture, our investments in technology, which helps prevent failures before they occur.

Turning to labor, we continue to make progress in this space. Earlier this month, we announced 16 5-year collective bargaining agreements in the U.S.

were ratified, covering 700 CPKC employees across 11 states. These agreements reflect constructive collaboration with our unions and provide customers with service and reliability for our network.

Now turning to resources and capital, we remain well-aligned with our growth outlook. In 2025, we supported 4% growth with 1% lower average headcount, expect continues strong operating leverage in 2026.

From a capital perspective, we did receive the 100 Tier 4 locomotives in 2025, and we have additional 100 scheduled for delivery this year. These locomotives are improving efficiency and reliability of our fleet and positioning us for continued profitable growth.

In 2026, we will continue our merger-related expansion commitments to the STB. This work includes CTC, additional sidings, Kansas City to Chicago corridor, but this also includes towards Shreveport.

These upgrades are improving velocity on the north-south route, which is strengthening our customer service. In closing, the network is performing at record levels, we are properly resourced to handle strong grain harvest in Canada and U.S.

Our investments in capacity, safety, and power are driving sustained, meaningful performance gains. We are well positioned to execute our operating plan, support our customers, and deliver on our commitments throughout 2026.

With that, I'll turn it to John.

John Brooks

All right. Thank you, Mark, and good afternoon, everyone.

This quarter showed the resilience of our book of business, with growth across key segments and traction from new wins offsetting areas of demand softness. Despite macro and tariff pressures, we delivered to our customers, we captured synergies, we maintained disciplined pricing, and advanced initiatives that will support our growth in 2026.

Now looking at our Q4 results, this quarter, we delivered record revenue, up 1% on flat RTMs. Cents per RTM was up 1%.

Our pricing remained strong, with renewals exceeding our long-term 3% to 4% outlook. Mix partially offset the pricing, as longer length of haul and higher bulk traffic lowered our cents per RTM.

Now taking a closer look at our fourth-quarter revenue performance, I'll speak to an FX-adjusted result, starting with bulk. Record grain revenues were up 4% on 2% volume growth.

Our Canadian grain volumes were up 2% on a record harvest. Export volumes, however, lagged expectations as rain impacted the loading of vessels in Vancouver, and farmers chose to store grain volumes, tempering the pace of shipments through the quarter.

U.S. grain volumes were also up 2%, with growth led by higher shipments to the PNW and down to Mexico.

Our network continues to uncover new markets, and this is especially visible with record-setting Q4 and full-year grain shipments into Mexico. Turning to the first half of 2026, the North American crop is shaping up to be record both in Canada and the U.S.

As Keith said, estimates point to a 85 million metric ton Canadian harvest, up 20% from last year. We also have a record U.S.

corn crop and solid bean production that has recently started to move to market. Finally, we're encouraged by the recent canola trade settlements and new crush capacity coming online in the first half of the year that are going to further support our positive outlook for grain.

Potash revenues were down 2% on 2% volume growth, driven by higher export volumes through Vancouver. With solid demand fundamentals and Canpotex fully committed through the first quarter, we expect potash to remain a solid contributor to our overall base this year.

To round out bulk, coal revenue increased 2% on a 1% decline in volumes. Canadian coal volumes were lower largely due to mix, impact of lapping last year's work stoppage, and maintenance at Westshore, which ran from August into November.

These declines were partially offset by higher volumes of U.S. thermal coal.

Moving to our merchandise franchise, energy, chemicals, and plastics revenue was down 3% on a 5% volume decline. Decline was driven by lower crude and refined fuel volumes to Mexico, all along with a softer base demand that primarily impacted our plastic shipments.

This was partially offset by growth in LPG shipments from Canada to Mexico as we continue to capitalize and grow our land-bridge opportunities. Looking ahead, we expect ECP volumes to stabilize as we move through 2026, although the base business in this industrial segment continues to be impacted by the softer macro environment.

Forest products revenue declined 13% on a 12% decrease in volumes. Volumes were pressured by tariffs on Canadian lumber exports to the U.S., along with ongoing macro softness impacting our pulp and paper business.

The team remains laser-focused on project development to continue to try to offset base demand softness, and also through extending our length of haul. Metals, minerals, and consumer products revenues and volumes were up 1%.

Growth in this space was driven by industrial development and synergies, with new business coming on in cement and other aggregates supporting construction projects across our network. This strength was partially offset by continued impact of tariffs on our cross-border steel business.

Now looking ahead, we remain focused on a number of industrial development opportunities as we continue to navigate the tariff and macro headwinds. Moving to automotive, revenue was down 3% on 1% volume growth.

Our auto franchise delivered volume growth again this quarter despite the impact of production slowdowns along with aluminum supply challenges and a chip shortage, all which contributed a $30 million revenue headwind in the quarter. Now looking ahead, despite ongoing uncertainty with production and auto sales projections, we expect to continue to outperform, supported by business secured in 2025 that will benefit us in 2026.

Now closing with intermodal, revenue was up 3% on 4% volume growth. International intermodal volumes were up 5% on growth with our key ocean carrier partners and lapping the impact of last year's work stoppage at the Port of Vancouver.

We remain encouraged by the strong performance of the Gemini alliance and the growth opportunities it is creating across our entire network. Comparisons will be more challenging in the first half of the year; however, the team is focused on the development of new product offerings at the Port of Saint John and also down in Lázaro to enable share gains and volume growth to our network.

Domestic intermodal volumes was up 3% in the quarter. We continue to deliver strong growth on our MMX trains, which is up approximately 40% year-over-year.

As Keith said, our new Americold business is also gaining traction, with good visibility for a strong ramp-up as we continue to move through 2026. I'm also extremely excited about the new SMX product with CSX connecting Dallas and Mexico to the U.S.

Southeast. Like our Midwest-Mexico product, the SMX train pairs will formally launch in the coming months and will offer the fastest, most reliable service product in these lanes.

In closing, with record grain crops, our self-help initiatives, industrial development projects all coming online, we are well positioned to again offset tariff and macro headwinds and deliver another year of mid-single-digit RTM growth. We remain focused on execution, disciplined pricing, and continuing to capture the full value of our capacity of this network.

With that, I'll pass it on to Nadeem.

Nadeem Velani

All right. Thanks, John, and good afternoon.

I'm extremely pleased with the team's strong execution in the quarter. While we did deal with temporary demand softness in some areas, the team responded decisively with strong cost control and operational performance, demonstrating the strength and resiliency of our PSR-driven operating model.

The ability to optimize assets, control costs, and deliver operationally is embedded in our DNA as precision scheduled railroading at CPKC. Now turning to our fourth quarter on slide 12, CPKC's reported operating ratio was 58.9%.

Our core adjusted operating ratio improved 120 basis points year-over-year to a CPKC record 55.9%. Diluted earnings per share was $1.20, and core adjusted diluted EPS was $1.33, up 3% versus last year.

Turning to our full-year results on slide 13, CPKC's reported operating ratio was 52.8%, and the core adjusted operating ratio improved 140 basis points to 59.9%. Diluted earnings per share was $4.51, and core adjusted diluted earnings per share was $4.61, up 8% year-over-year.

Taking a closer look at our expenses on slide 14, I will speak to the year-over-year variances on an FX-adjusted basis. Comp and benefits expense, excluding adjustments, was $626 million, flat versus prior year.

During the quarter, productivity gains from improved train weights, efficient resource planning, and workforce optimization were offset by wage inflation. We expect continued strong labor productivity in 2026, with headcount up slightly on mid-single-digit volume growth.

Fuel expense was $430 million, down 8% year-over-year. The decline was driven primarily by the elimination of the Canadian federal carbon tax on April 1st, along with improved efficiency from increased train weights.

Materials expense was $112 million. The year-over-year decline was primarily driven by an increased focus on capital works in the quarter.

Equipment rents were $97 million, up 4% year-over-year. The increase was driven by higher intermodal car hire payments, reflecting the ramp-up of Gemini volumes and lapping the prior year's labor disruption at the Port of Vancouver.

This increase was partially offset by efficiency gains driven by improved network velocity and car cycle times across the network. Depreciation and amortization was up 7%, resulting from a larger asset base.

Purchased services and other expense, excluding adjustments, was $514 million. Year-over-year decline was driven by productivity and insourcing initiatives, partially offset by cost inflation and higher casualty.

Moving below the line on slide 15, other components of net periodic benefit recovery were $94 million, or $103 million excluding acquisition-related costs. Net interest expense was $230 million, or $225 million excluding purchase accounting.

The increase was driven by interest on new debt issued earlier in the year. Income tax expense was $400 million, or $407 million adjusted for significant items and purchase accounting.

The core adjusted effective tax rate on the quarter came in at approximately 25%, which is a $40 million headwind versus our Q4 2024 rate. In 2026, we expect a core adjusted effective tax rate of approximately 24.75%.

Turning to slide 16 and cash flow, 2025 net cash provided by operating activities increased 1% to $5.3 billion, while net cash used in financing activities was up 40%, driven by the share repurchase program. CapEx was $3.1 billion, above our $2.9 billion outlook, largely due to a pull-forward of maintenance capital projects during the fourth quarter to take advantage of weather and network conditions.

For 2026, we are reducing our capital outlook by 15% to $2.65 billion. Now turning to share repurchases, throughout last year, we took advantage of market volatility to reward shareholders, completing our 37 million share repurchase program in late October.

Given the strong value that we continue to see in our share price, I'm pleased to announce that our board has approved a new 5% share repurchase program, allowing us to continue returning cash to shareholders through disciplined and opportunistic capital allocation. Looking ahead, while macroeconomic conditions and trade policy remain uncertain, we are focused on what we can control: operating a safe, efficient, and disciplined PSR railroad while capitalizing on our unique growth opportunities.

We expect to deliver low double-digit earnings growth, supported by another year of mid-single-digit RTM growth. With industry-leading execution, a compelling growth pipeline, and strong free cash growth, the future is extremely bright.

With that, let me turn it back over to Keith.

Keith Creel

Thanks, gentlemen. Operator, we'll open it up for questions.

Operator

Thank you. If you would like to ask a question, simply press star then the number one on your telephone keypad.

If you would like to withdraw your question, press star two. As previously highlighted, please limit yourself to one question.

Our first question comes from Walter Spracklin with RBC Capital Markets. Please go ahead.

Walter Spracklin

Thanks very much. Good afternoon, everyone.

I'd like to double-click on your volume growth assumption, or guidance here, mid-single digit. Obviously last year ended a little weaker and it hasn't started off well this year.

Got some weather that is going to create perhaps a little bit of leakage. Given that headwind, perhaps obviously, mid-single digit is industry leading.

Can you double-click a little bit on what sectors give you the confidence that you can achieve mid-single digit and how much of that is the carryover of integration or a carryover of some of the wins that you've got from last year and how much is new wins that you're expecting this year? Thanks.

John Brooks

Thanks, Walter. A couple comments.

Really up until last Friday, January was kind of playing out how we expected it to play out. Certainly, we realize we've got tougher comps, we had pull-ahead volumes in international and automotive and such.

Frankly, we knew Q1 was going to be a little bit more of a challenge on that front, Walter. Certainly this weather event was a little bit of a setback, but I'm also pretty optimistic on, sort of what we had in our base plan for grain in February and in March.

My gut sense and what our customers are telling us is there's a pretty good opportunity for us to exceed and claw back maybe some of that we gave away here the last week during that time period. There's no doubt, though, I do believe Q2, Q3, the balance of the year is where we'll see the momentum build.

Specifically, I think grain is, as we talked about, both sides of the border continues to be an opportunity. We've got a strong export potash plan.

Our bulks, kind of a similar story to 2025, I think presents a really good opportunity for us. Then we kind of shift to the synergies and self-help initiatives.

That's where we've got to lean in and create our own luck. I think that's something we've proved we've been able to do.

I look at intermodal. We still got a fair amount of growth on our MMX train that we'll be targeting.

We're going to be launching the new SMX with CSX here in the coming months, and I can tell you we're looking at transit times out of Central Mexico into markets of Atlanta, Charlotte, Jacksonville in roughly 4 days or less. This is going to be really fast, as Keith said, better than truck-like service.

The early bidding prognosis, we're looking at current bids of about 80,000 loads a year with one particular client that we're working on. I'm pretty optimistic around those opportunities.

We haven't scratched the surface on really our launch of the Americold building in Kansas City and that business, that reefer business. That is just starting to ramp up, and I'll remind you up in Canada at Port of Saint John, Americold will open their second building on us that will open up around the July timeframe.

Just in the intermodal sector, Walter, there's no doubt there's going to be headwinds and ongoing challenges, but I think we've created enough unique products in the marketplace that I think allow us to go out and sell and do things maybe a little differently than what our competitors do out there. That gives me some confidence, particularly in those areas.

Keith Creel

Hey, Walter, one other point of reference, I think it's important to remember, we're going to lap that period of time in the second quarter, first part of third quarter, we implemented the cutover and I think some of classified it as our CP [schmozzle?] time when we integrated our IT system.

There obviously were some increased costs responding to that and some lost revenue, and we'll lap that period, given that the railroad's humming and our systems are humming, and we've grown stronger as a result of that. That's going to be a benefit for us in our '26 results.

Walter Spracklin

Appreciate the time. Thank you.

Operator

Your next question comes from Brian Ossenbeck with JPMorgan. Please go ahead.

Brian Ossenbeck

Hey, good afternoon. Thanks for taking the question.

Keith, I wanted to see if you could weigh in on reciprocal switching as it's been proposed right now. Obviously, yourselves and others have kind of grown up with that in Canada.

Do you think that's really applicable to the U.S.? Would you be concerned if that were to be extended to the U.S.

in terms of how it's proposed right now? I guess ultimately, do you expect the industry to have to deal with this, whether or not there is M&A?

Thank you.

Keith Creel

Number one, if you do your job and you provide good service, you don't have to worry about it. You don't have to worry about somebody coming in your backyard and being able to do better than you are.

That said, what's being proposed now versus what's in Canada, there's still a unique difference. With an interswitching in Canada, you've got the other carrier handling the switch to the interchange location, and then you take the line haul to the next destination.

What they're proposing is, literally what I started with, that somebody else coming in and providing service. Again, that said, if it were to happen, we'd respond to it.

I don't see it as a threat to us at all. Ultimately, if a customer can't get their service, I agree they should have an alternative.

They shouldn't be kept captive to terrible, deteriorating service. I just think that, again, it needs to be fair, it needs to be balanced, and we need to think about the unintended consequences.

It's not so complex that kind of what we go through ends up doing more damage to the customer than good.

Fadi Chamoun

All right, thanks, Keith.

Operator

Your next question comes from Chris Wetherbee with Wells Fargo. Please go ahead.

Chris Wetherbee

Hey, thanks. Good afternoon, guys.

I guess as you're thinking about 2026, obviously finished '25 on a very strong note from an operating perspective, sub-56 OR. I guess, how do you think about sort of the algorithm when you're at a mid-single-digit RTM growth?

I think pre-sort of merger, we thought about the potential for that type of RTM to maybe drive decent OR improvement, potentially very high incremental margins, and obviously earnings power, and you're guiding to that. Kind of curious, how do you think about the OR potentially as you move forward here?

Obviously for 2026, but maybe also bigger picture. Are you kind of hitting stride?

It seems like the network's running well. Just kind of get your thoughts on how you think about it as we move forward.

Nadeem Velani

Chris. A year ago, we sat here, we talked about sub-60 as first we wanted to get to that level, which as we've accomplished now, and beyond that, obviously the goal isn't to just lower our operating ratio, but generate earnings and generate long-term return on invested capital.

Our earnings algorithm is kind of that mid-single-digit RTM growth, layer on strong price and priced to the value of our service, and then generate additional kind of value through free cash that's going to help bring to the bottom line and get kind of that double-digit EPS growth over time. The operating leverage that I think we're going to get, given the strong bulk opportunity we have in front of us, we're coming in, as you said, with a very solid footing as far as Q4 with our cost structure.

We've done some things on the workforce side to help us get to a better spot. From a resourcing point of view, we've got new locomotives coming in.

I think there's opportunities on the fuel efficiency side and overall efficiency. I do think kind of getting back into that 100 basis point type of operating ratio improvement per year, if you're doing things right, if you are generating strong volumes and strong pricing, that should be how it plays out.

I think, over time and kind of our long-term guidance of 100 basis point improvement in the OR is what you should expect from us if we're delivering and executing the way we should.

Chris Wetherbee

Got it. That's helpful.

Thank you.

Nadeem Velani

Thanks, Chris.

Operator

Your next question comes from Fadi Chamoun with BMO Capital Markets. Please go ahead.

Fadi Chamoun

Thank you. Good afternoon.

Just a couple of things. On the revenue side, can you help us kind of bridge the volume to revenue?

I think last year, you had a lot of mix issues, and RTM and revenues were kind of aligned. As we think about this year, what does a kind of mid-single digit RTM mean to revenue?

What's kind of the mix like as you look at the book of business that you're talking about? Maybe a quick one for Mark, is the network set up to handle this book of business that John's talking about with current headcount level?

What are you envisioning on that front from a headcount perspective?

John Brooks

Fadi. I think probably the Q1, Q2, we're probably going to see some of those challenges that you described yet, given the strong bulk business, in those quarters that we're projecting that maybe is a little less natural than what we would normally see, probably does create some of that mixed headwind during that time period.

Plus, I would tell you, we have tariff impacts of north of $200 million, 1 1.5% of our revenue and RTMs. A lot of those tariff impacts were on really profitable, positive cents per RTM business that just is not available to us under this tariff environment.

I expect to see kind of some headwinds earlier in the year and then see that stabilize. I think there's probably a couple points, if RTMs and revenue matched up, even in '25, there's probably a couple points of upside on the revenue as we're looking towards 2026, if that helps you out.

Nadeem Velani

Fadi, I would just add in Q1, we'll lap the April 1st, the carbon tax, we've got one more quarter of that, or a couple more months here from where we are today. That'll be a bit of a headwind to mix, and then the Canadian dollar just continues to appreciate.

I think we're at about $1.35 today, the Bank of Canada held, and a year ago we were closer to 1.43, so that's going to be a headwind. Now it's going to help us on our leverage, it's going to help us overall as far as you think about our balance sheet from that perspective and interest payments and things like that, there is a net benefit elsewhere, but it will hurt our cents per RTM.

Mark Redd

On the headcount, I would say some of my comments on the prepared comments was headcount would be flat slightly up. We'll have strong operating leverage as a result.

Again, we're going to be focused on train size again. We've got some agreements that we're working through with some of our labor unions that will best with that as far as headcounts.

We'll be working through that through that piece.

Nadeem Velani

Fadi, nonemployee headcount, contractors and so forth, are kind of, for the most part, off the property as well in Q4 as part of our cost focus. I think overall, I'm going to push Mark as well on keeping that low single digit or keep it closer to flat, I think we can accommodate it.

Fadi Chamoun

Thank you.

Nadeem Velani

Thanks, Fadi.

Operator

Your next question comes from Jonathan Chappell with Evercore ISI. Please go ahead.

Jonathan Chappell

Thank you. Good afternoon.

Nadeem, hate to be so short-term focused, but you know how it is in this seat. John pointed out a lot of headwinds in 1Q with the weather.

Now you're talking, man, the carbon tax is still there, exchange a little bit. If we think about the path to both the mid-single-digit RTMs, but especially the double-digit EPS, are you thinking about a slower start to 1Q and then kind of a ramp as we go through the year?

Not quite a hockey stick, but it does appear that we need to kind of make it up in the second half of the year, back-half loaded?

Nadeem Velani

No. Q1 is going to be the toughest quarter of the year, and that's full-on expectation.

When you think about Liberation Day a year ago, everyone was moving traffic. It's some tough compares.

To Keith's point earlier, we run out of some very easy compares in Q2, Q3, and so forth. It's going to be a tougher start to the year as far as the earnings algorithm, but no, I'm not concerned about that.

The carbon tax, that's net neutral to earnings, so that doesn't create a headwind at all, it just creates a bit of a headwind on cents per RTM, but it actually helps us in our margins overall, so. It won't be a hockey stick.

It'll be a natural increase, yeah.

Jonathan Chappell

Great. Thanks.

Nadeem Velani

Thank you.

Operator

Your next question comes from Ravi Shanker with Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead.

Ravi Shanker

Great. Thanks.

Good afternoon, everyone. There's talk of the Harbor Maintenance Tax exemption kind of potentially going away and kind of potentially implications there.

Would love to know if you guys have any views on what impact there might be on cross-border volumes if that happens or not.

Nadeem Velani

Frankly, Ravi, the cross-border volume business is so small in our book today, specific to that, I really don't give it much credence or that much of a concern right now in our book. Maybe 4, 5, 6 years ago where certainly we saw that volume much stronger, but at this point, I really don't see that being much of an impact if they change some of those fees or regulations.

Ravi Shanker

Very helpful. Thank you.

Operator

Your next question comes from Brandon Oglenski with Barclays. Please go ahead.

Brandon Oglenski

Hey, good afternoon, and thanks for taking the question. Keith, I'm kind of shocked that it hasn't come up yet, but I think everyone respects your view on M&A, and obviously the application was rejected on some maybe technical grounds, maybe not.

Nonetheless, maybe get your updated thoughts there, and especially in regards to the development that you have with CSX, going from Dallas and Texas and Mexico into the Southeast. Really appreciate it.

Keith Creel

I think you say everyone respects. That might be true, but I don't think everyone agrees with my views.

That said, they remain to be the same. I think that rejection by the STB said loudly what I believe to be true in the first place: the facts are going to matter.

This is not a fait accompli. This is a complex merger that has tremendous impact on the U.S.

rail network, as well as Canadian and Mexican. It's all, ultimately, one network.

Obviously the STB is seized with making sure they do what's right to protect the strength of the U.S. rail network, which supports the strength and obvious vitality of commerce and the economy in the United States of America.

Again, it's not going to matter, I think this is what they're saying, about how the applicants may feel. Just tell them what the facts are.

That's what that said, and that application was short on facts. It had a lot of positives, a lot of aspirational growth projections in there.

I'm not saying they can't be achieved, I'm saying that's a big bar to meet. Given that we're headquartered in Missouri now, I'd say it's the Show-Me State.

That's what we want. We want to see the facts, we want all the facts to be revealed, we all can opine on those facts and how they impact each of us, and that's railroads, that's customers, that's communities.

There's a public interest test that has to be solved too, which includes strongly defined by enhanced competition. Those rules were written after the brakes were put on consolidation.

Linda Morgan, who was chairing the STB back in 2001 when that moratorium was issued, she didn't just pump the brakes, she slammed the brakes on, and she went back and looked at what the nation needed going forward from a rail network standpoint. A lot of people would benefit if they would actually go back and read and study, not just what's written in the regulations, but the perspective on that.

If you go back and turn the page to the hearings, the Senate Commerce Committee hearings, it's great reading on a plane. Print them out, it's pretty thick.

What? You can get her perspective and how those rules were shaped.

I'm telling you, when you read the regulations, they're not always clearly prescriptive. Sometimes they are, sometimes they're black and white like one of the issues that UP's application got rejected on, but a lot of times it's the words that are used, it's the commas, it's the context.

If you go back and do your homework, which I think it's pretty important to do, the perspective, she said it in her own words in testimony, and I'll just give it to you. The new rules encourage enhancement of competition.

The old rules actually encourage railroad mergers. The new rules substantially increase the burden of proof for the applicants to demonstrate that the proposed transaction will be in the public interest and must demonstrate the transaction will enhance competition where necessary to offset the negative effects of the merger.

You can't understand if that's true unless you understand what all the adverse effects are as well. Another comment she made that I think is extremely telling when she was pressed to explain what enhanced competition means, she said senators simply said this way: the benefits box must be fuller than the harm box.

How can you determine if that's true or not true unless you know the facts that are contained in both boxes? I'll tell you, this is a forever decision.

This regulatory body, Chairman Fusch and the members that serve with Chairman Fusch, are going to take this responsibility seriously. Again, it's not going to matter what the applicants think or feel, as good as they may be to them, and I believe UP, I believe their board, I believe Jim Vena, they believe it's good for the nation, they believe it's good for their shareholders, they believe it's good for their employees.

That can be true, but does that also mean it's true for all the other concerned parties? Is that true for the industry?

Does that represent the risk of additional consolidation and something that large being created and the integration risk that it creates for the nation? Because if it fails, we're in trouble.

The nation could be brought to its knees with something that large affecting our entire rail transportation system in North America and affect every shipper, affect every railroad, affect commerce. They have to get it right.

It has to be a fulsome process. I heard Jim yesterday.

He wants all the facts to be heard and known, then let's make them heard and known because that's the only way to get to the decision. In the end, I believe this regulatory body, the regulations require, and I believe they're committed to, if their application can demonstrate that the benefits outweigh the harms, then they've got a good chance of approval.

That said, for that to be true, in my mind, based on the regulations and based on that definition of enhanced competition, it's going to have to come with concessions, considerable concessions. To suggest that you're meeting a definition of enhanced competition because you introduced this CG fee proposition, this mechanism that they introduced, if that's the definition, then why does it have an expiry date?

If that meets the definition of a forever decision beyond the expiry date, how can you exclude railroads, I think they deemed it Canadian railroads, that originate traffic west of the Mississippi and ship to destinations east and vice versa? Those are American-generated shipments going to American locations.

That's part of making America great again. I guarantee you, President Trump means what he says.

He wants what's best for the nation, the STB wants what's best for the nation, CPKC wants what's best for the nation. It's critically important to us and every other concerned stakeholder that's impacted by this decision that the facts prove that.

All the facts, not just the ones that support the applicants' view of what's best for the nation. That's a lot said, but that's the gravity of this, and again, I would encourage people, I know it's very seducing to get wrapped up in drinking this merger Kool-Aid and wanting to see all these wonderful gains and all these dollars printed that perhaps some are suggesting would be printed, and all this amazing shareholder value created, but at what cost?

It can't be at the cost of our U.S. rail network.

Again, you got to go back and educate yourselves. Hey, listen, I've had lawyers tell me, I've had lawyers disagree with me, I've had other CEOs, I got a little bit of experience in this, one that I think the world of, Pat saw this differently when they were going through their process trying to get their trust approved in their agreement with Canadian National.

He and I had some very active debates. He was influenced by what his regulatory lawyers told him, and he was wrong.

I think we were stacked 90% against us, and they were wrong. Again, don't get tied up in emotion, don't get tied up in spin.

Focus on the facts, read the regulations, get the perspective, go back and read the hearings, and you're going to get right back to where I am today: the facts must prove and show that this is ultimately in the public's interest. That benefit box is going to have to be loaded up heavier than that harm box, because again, this decision cannot be undone, and if it's approved with concessions, it will likely trigger additional consolidation in this industry to create railroads to be in a position to best defend itself and compete against a Goliath that would be created in a UP-NS combination.

I'll say this one last thing: it's not competition that CPKC's concerned about. I'm an advocate for competition.

I'm an advocate for single-line service. Again, what I'm not an advocate for is anticompetitive behavior.

What I'm not an advocate for is a railroad that has so much size and scale as they have historically, and I would suggest history says a lot about what the future might look like, how they've imposed their will on other railroads. I think that's a dangerous and slippery slope.

I think it's critically important that whatever concessions that the STB agrees to, and that UP and NS would agree to if they accept the decision if it's favorable, that they have teeth to them as well. It has to be enforceable to be able to protect the public interest and enhance competition.

It can't be something that can just be conveniently ignored because they see it a different way. It's got to be clear, concise, and there has to be a mechanism that we can quickly seek relief in that's not the standard, go wait in line for 2 years until the STB has time to get through the litany of other complaints and concerns that something of this magnitude likely would create before they could opine and give you a decision like we had to navigate after our merger in that South End rights agreement.

Do your homework on that one. Read what was said in that one.

Read the case of that. That was pure anticompetitive behavior.

We said it when UP took the position to try to shut off our South End rights that were granted to us from previous consolidations to protect competition. We said it then, and the STB agreed with us 2 years later.

In the meantime, I guarantee you the customers' interests were not served. They were shut out from competing into those marketplaces during record grain harvest.

That was in the harm box, that certainly was not in the benefit box. Thanks for the question.

Probably a bit more than you anticipated, but hope I cleared some of that up. We'll wait and see.

Let's just let all these facts be developed and heard and we'll see where this thing comes out.

Brandon Oglenski

Love the passion, Keith, and everyone focused on positive outcomes here. Thanks.

Keith Creel

Thank you.

Operator

Your next question comes from Tom Wadewitz with UBS. Please go ahead.

Tom Wadewitz

Good afternoon. Keith, I wanted to get your sense on just high-level, how you're thinking about USMCA and kind of risk associated with I guess I don't know, renegotiation, whatever you want to call it.

You guys have been pretty helpful in kind of defining what you think you've lost from tariffs and Liberation Day. I don't know, it's obviously tough to have a lot of conviction on where tariff-related things come out, but in high level, do you think there's significant risk?

Where do you think the timing is? Is this something where you've already incurred a lot of the kind of the headwind already from Liberation Day?

Thank you.

Keith Creel

Let me start with kind of the last question. We've already absorbed pretty significant hit from all the uncertainty.

I think about $200 million of revenue impact, maybe higher. We felt it on the balance sheet already.

I don't have a crystal ball to tell you exactly where the needle's going to land. I believe, and I've said from the beginning, President Trump is going to adjust the balance of trade between our three nations.

He is going to make decisions in that renegotiation which, to his satisfaction and to his view, benefits the United States of America. That said, I think that can be true and a positive renew on USMCA can be true at the same time, because trade between these three nations, even if it gets rebalanced a bit, is critically important to all three nations' success.

We depend upon each other. That's undeniable.

When USMCA was created, trade grew after the fact. After the pandemic, even more critical importance about cross-border trade between these three nations.

Sitting in the seat we're in, we've gone through some choppy waters, they may get more choppier, but at the end of the day, we'll get through the storm. These three nations will trade together, and we uniquely, because of our network enables it, we connect with hard infrastructure the rail network that allows that trade to flow, Canada to the U.S., U.S.

to Canada, Mexico to the U.S., U.S. to Mexico, and now, because of these trade tribulations, even more so than before, Canada to Mexico and Mexico to Canada.

We are the only network that can do that. We truly are a success enabler for North America.

We are North America's railroad: heavily committed to the United States, heavily committed to Canada, heavily committed to Mexico. We're going to enable success across these three great nations in a trilateral way that allows everyone to succeed, including CPKC.

Tom Wadewitz

Do you have any sense on what the most likely timing might be, or is that just tough to say as well?

Keith Creel

I'm reading the same things you're hearing. My guess is it's going to really get active this summer.

That's my view. I think in the summer, it's going to get renewed, maybe hopefully, I would think, before the midterms.

Again, that's just me speculating based on the way I'm reading the tea leaves. I don't control the agenda, but that to me would be a possible and a probable outcome.

Tom Wadewitz

Right. Okay.

Thank you. Appreciate it.

Nadeem Velani

Thank you.

Operator

Your next question comes from Konark Gupta with Scotiabank. Please go ahead.

Konark Gupta

Hey, hi, Nadeem. Just on the free cash, just wanting a couple of things real quick here.

The free cash conversion you guys talked about at Investor Day, 90%. In that context, where do you see things shake out this year?

Then for the CapEx, even if we adjust the pull-forward of maintenance projects, the CapEx is seemingly down in '26. Where are you cutting CapEx on, and is there some flex?

Nadeem Velani

Free cash conversion's in the 75% range. I think, long term, we've talked about 90% part of our guide in 2028 and beyond.

I, I think the current level of the 2.6, 2.7 CapEx range is is something that's we can continue to do over the next foreseeable future, so. In fact, with a weaker Canadian dollar, that could go with a stronger Canadian dollar, that can go even lower.

The the CapEx is a bit of a shift in terms of, timing of investments, we've pulled forward some of the infrastructure investment. We did a lot of the synergy or the integration-related capital investment the last 3 years, as as you can imagine, with the Laredo Bridge, with some of the siding extensions and siding investment that we did to support the the integration, as well as some of the growth investments, Americold, for example, and transload investments, so.

There's just basically a bit of a shift in in the spend of CapEx, we don't have the the day-end, our our systems integration anymore, there'll be some reduced capital there. We don't have as many rail car investments that we have, but we have announced that that locomotive investment with with Wabtec in progress.

It's a it's a shift in capital overall, and that reduction about 15% somewhat due to timing, but but main mainly out of the the, I'd say, siding extension, infrastructure investments, and to an extent IS investments overall. Thanks, Konark.

Operator

Your next question comes from Benoit Poirier with Desjardins Capital Markets. Please go ahead.

Benoit Poirier

Yes, thank you very much. Good afternoon, everyone.

My question, back in November, the Canadian government announced new measure to help the Canadian steel and lumber companies. One of these measure was the government would work with the rails to subsidize freight rates by 50% beginning in spring of 2026.

Was wondering if you could give an update on this and whether it could be a kind of a volume tailwind in the back half this year.

John Brooks

Thanks, Benoit. Certainly we've got our GA folks working through still the mechanics of how all this will be accounted for, sort of between all the parties: the customer, the government, and ourselves.

Our analysis says, yeah, maybe there is some opportunity, particularly in maybe some long-haul, transload-type movements across the country. I'm not looking at sort of needle-moving-type numbers there, Benoit.

We'll see. As I said, there's still a fair amount that has to be sorted out, and then we'll see how it sort of ripples through the marketplace.

We're keeping our hands on the pulse so that if there's an opportunity, we'll be right there to try to capture it, but I'm not looking at big numbers.

Benoit Poirier

Okay. Great update.

Thanks, John.

John Brooks

Yeah.

Operator

Your next question comes from Scott Group with Wolfe Research. Please go ahead.

Scott Group

Hey, thanks. Afternoon.

One of the other rails was talking about pick-up in inflation. How are you feeling about price and just overall price-cost this year?

Then maybe, just along those lines, just given some of the Q1 commentary, I don't know, Nadeem, any thoughts about how to think about operating ratio in Q1?

Nadeem Velani

Almost thought through a call without that, Scott. Thank you.

I think year-over-year, we'll see potential for improvement in the operating ratio. I'll keep it at that.

From a inflation point of view, we're not seeing that same sort of issue. Again, the Canadian dollar does help us in terms of some of our costs and capital investments in U.S.

dollar conversion. Overall, our true inflation, which is locked in with labor, we've signed some very unique deals and favorable deals for labor and for management, and close to in that 2.5% to 3% range.

As far as our inflation, you should expect that level of inflation overall, and we're pricing above that, so that spread should be positive and will be part of our benefit to our margins overall.

Scott Group

Appreciate it. Thank you, guys.

Nadeem Velani

Thanks, Scott.

Operator

Your next question comes from Ken Hoexter with Bank of America. Please go ahead.

Ken Hoexter

Hey, great. Good afternoon.

Nadeem, just to clarify that 1Q, that the year-over-year improvement, was that a 1Q-specific comment, or is that a year-over-year comment on the OR? Then just your thoughts on synergy targets, where you think you are and what you still think can add this year and next?

Nadeem Velani

We'll see year-over-year improvement in Q1 in the operating ratio, and I expect to see year-over-year improvement annually in the operating ratio as well. We talked about Q1 being a little bit more challenging just given volume won't be as strong in Q1, but I still see outside of a major winter event or disruption that we'll see some improvement in the operating ratio given the local cost structure we entered January with.

Remind your second part of your question?

Ken Hoexter

Synergy question. Synergy.

Keith Creel

Ken, we exited 2025 at about a $1.2 run rate, $1.2 billion. We see an opportunity for another $200-plus, about a $1.4 as we close out 2026, well on our way of meeting the commitments we've made relative to this integration opportunity.

Scott Group

Wonderful. Thanks, Keith.

Thanks, Nadeem. Thanks, Ken.

Keith Creel

Thanks, Ken.

Operator

Your next question comes from Ari Rosa with Citigroup. Please go ahead.

Ari Rosa

Hi. Good afternoon.

I wanted to ask maybe a little bit longer term. It's been interesting to see there's been quite a bit of convergence here between kind of valuations across the Class 1 rails.

Keith, as we think about the growth prospects for CP over the long term, maybe speak about your level of confidence that CP can continue to outgrow the industry and kind of what are the drivers behind that as we think about 3, 5 years out and particularly how potentially a UP-NS situation could alter that. Thanks.

Keith Creel

Let me start with the last part first. A UP and NS, if that comes together with the puts and takes and the concessions we believe that will be required to satisfy enhanced competition, I see that as a net positive, as long as we have a fair playing field and we don't have anticompetitive behavior.

That's a qualifier there, and I'm going to expect that Jim will commit that that's not going to be true. That said, when it comes to the synergies and in our growth algorithm we look forward, think about this: think about what we're doing today with no macro help.

That's a single-digit RTM growth with the macro working against us. If you go forward, we're going to continue to have synergies, we're going to continue to create new and unique opportunities.

This SMX product, that was never contemplated in those initial targets that we put out. You get back to a place where you got a little bit of tailwind with a normalized economy, a little bit of GDP growth and normal shipments, synergies can come off a little, you maintain price, and you still kind of echo the same repeated behavior over the next several years.

Again, I think that's a sweet spot. What we do's hard work.

It's not easy, it's not a layup, but we've got the network to be able to create these customer solutions that have never been able to be created before, benefit from trade between the three nations, benefit from these unique networks north-south, the Southeast to Dallas, Southeast to Mexico that, again, a UP-NS can't replicate, and I think that gives us a nice recipe for having confidence in meeting that guidance that we've laid out on the growth algorithm.

Operator

Your next question comes from Steve Hansen with Raymond James. Please go ahead.

Steve Hansen

Oh yeah, thanks, Anderson. Appreciate the time.

Just a question on the grain harvest given its size. You've already described that it's a tailwind for the year.

I was a bit surprised you didn't move more in the fourth quarter on the back of the big harvest and just curious whether or not you think the normal pattern will evolve this year in the sense it'll move the bulk of the harvest in the first quarter and a half or two quarters or are we to think that pattern will extend into third quarter as well just given again the size of the carryover this year? Thanks.

John Brooks

Steve, you and I both were surprised. Certainly the wet weather out there in Vancouver didn't help, and I know we talked about it on the Q3 call, we're excited about the level of freight that we had sold with the grain companies in gearing up for that.

It does feel like maybe there is a little bit of a shift. We'll see if this is unique or not as we get towards harvest next year, I'm not really sure yet.

I do believe it sets us up for a very rateable, which we like as a railroad, shipment profile of grain. Frankly, with the soybeans not moving very much in the U.S., we're kind of excited about what that might bring as we move through the mid-part of the year.

I met with one of our very largest grain customers last week and they told me they fully expect to be kind of sold out to busy levels right through August in new crop. You got pretty good snow levels up across Canada right now.

We exited with pretty decent moisture. I know we're really in early innings right now, but I can tell you there's already a little bit of bullishness around could there be a repeat.

Certainly the Canadian farmers build a lot of storage, they've been able to put this crop away, but I think there's a pretty big confidence that this is going to have to move and move throughout the year. Then we'll see what happens next fall.

Steve Hansen

Appreciate the color. Thanks.

John Brooks

Yep.

Operator

Your next question comes from David Vernon with Bernstein. Please go ahead.

David Vernon

Hey, good afternoon, and thanks for taking the question. John, maybe can you talk a little bit about how you're thinking about the tariff environment and in terms of building out the mid-single-digit RTM guide?

Are you expecting things to kind of stay volatile, stay the same, get a little better, get a little worse? Then how are you guys thinking about the next iteration of the USMCA and how that might sort of impact some of the opportunities for you guys in the next 3 years?

John Brooks

David, we've assumed that this isn't really going to change. We've planned to sort of build in this headwind into 2026.

Now look, we were able to backfill it. I give an example, our land-bridge volume that we've talked about really both directions grew by about 140 million year-over-year in those types of opportunities.

We see opportunity there to add on to that pretty significantly. Look, it's no doubt it's frustrating.

It was a pretty significant headwind. If we get a break in it positively, certainly we're going to embrace bringing a lot of that traffic back on, but it certainly hasn't been planned.

What the future holds, I can tell you one thing: we're going to really amp up our sales activity on our Mexico franchise. I think there is a heck of a lot more opportunity down there to sort of feed this broader network.

Again, whether it would be land-bridge opportunities up into Canada or continuing to feed the American economy. Really we've never done it to the extent that you become accustomed to seeing our sales team across Canada and the U.S.

do it. Some more to come on that, but I'm looking for a lot bigger things in terms of growth out of our Mexico franchise in the coming years.

David Vernon

Anything that Carney and the team are doing to kind of promote trade with other partners that might have an impact on the outlook? I know there's been talk about the Chinese EVs, that kind of stuff.

John Brooks

I think certainly there's a fair amount of work, and actually we've got some of our ag folks down there in the coming weeks to promote better ag shipments between the two, eliminate some of the red tape and bureaucracy in terms of the customs movements of those products. I think we're making some headway on those fronts.

I can tell you also as we think about products intermodally moving all the way between Canada and Mexico, David, also there's an effort to try to streamline some of those customs processes related to those products early. I do believe there's the momentum there, but we're kind of in the early innings on some of that stuff.

Fadi Chamoun

All right. Thanks again for the time.

Operator

Thank you. We have reached our allotted time for Q&A.

I would now like to turn the call back over to Mr. Keith Creel.

Keith Creel

Thank you everyone again for spending your time with us, some really good questions, think some active discussion, certainly a very topical time and change for our industry. We're going to stay close to that as we have stayed close to that again to make sure that our facts are heard and understood, as well as the industry's, and as well as our customers, our joint customers.

We'll see how it all shakes out. More to come on that.

These next several months will be very telling once that application is resubmitted and we all have a chance to digest it and comment on that. In the meantime, we're going to focus on our core competencies, which is running a safe and efficient railroad for the benefit of our customers and for the benefit of commerce, which is going to produce a very solid and we think unique, value-creating financial outcome for those that choose to invest in our company.

We take that responsibility seriously. We appreciate your trust.

We look forward to sharing results on the next call. Stay safe, stay warm, and we'll see you out on the rail.

Operator

This concludes today's conference call. You may now disconnect.