NCAB Group AB

NCAB Group AB

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Q4 FY2025 · Earnings Call TranscriptFebruary 13, 2026

Operator

Now I will hand the conference over to the CEO Peter Kruk, CFO Timothy Benjamin, and Head of Investor Relations Gunilla Öhman. Please go ahead.

Peter Kruk

Thank you very much, and welcome all to our Q4 release. First, a few bit of information about NCAB.

We at NCAB, we are a supplier of printed circuit boards, and those are the products that you see to the left on this slide, which basically creates the foundation in any electronic or intelligent product. Our customers are the ones placing components on the boards.

That can be either OEM customers or it can be contract manufacturers. Our focus is on printed circuit board for demanding customers.

We are focusing on customers with high demands in terms of quality, technology, and we aim to supply them with zero-defect products produced also sustainably, giving them the most competitive offer by offering the overall lowest total cost. We are aiming to be the number one PCB supplier wherever we are, and we are already the globally leading producer of printed circuit boards worldwide.

We are operating with local presence in around 19 countries. We are some 660 specialists in the group, and we have no in-house manufacturing, but are working with a network of factories, and our main factories, of which are currently around 34, make up around 90% of our total deliveries.

Besides looking at the demanding customers, we're also focused on the high-mix, low-volume segments of the market. We are not involved in super high-volume applications like consumer electronics, mobile phones, or computers, but more typically industrial products.

Products where generally the final product has a significantly higher value, the printed circuit board is a small part of the bill of material. Demands, however, can be very hard in terms of quality and environmental ability to withstand.

Also, even if our customers in this segments are quite often large, globally leading companies, their spend on printed circuit boards is relatively limited, and therefore they struggle both to have the internal expertise to manage this commodity, but also to even get access to the leading factories. This is an area where we can help them, and also by combining the spend of our portfolio of customers, we can also get very good terms and earn the margin on our business.

We have been going through a quite significant, volatile market over the last five years. As you can see, overall, this is a globally long-term growing PCB market, as you can see in the green bars.

We saw a tremendous spike or growth in the market following the pandemic, and we have for a few years been living off the backlash of that where inventories in the supply chain were full of product produced or semi-produced products at our customers and our customers' customers. We are happy to see that in 2025, this is starting to turn around, and we can see that growth in our order intake also for the full year coming through, and even more so in the fourth quarter.

We also have a good mix in our portfolio. We are not biased on any specific segment, but I think we've seen in this year automotive has been one of the segments where there's still been some challenges, whereas, however, we've seen good, continued progress in areas like defense, power, and medical applications.

We are also handling the geopolitical risks by an increasingly diversified supply base. We've been continuing to expand our sourcing in Asia outside China, and making good progress here, and I think we expect that to continue to grow also in 2026.

Coming more closely into Q4, and I think we're very pleased to see that we have good ordering take and net sales growth in US dollars. We trade predominantly in US dollars.

It's also both a market recovery, but also it's sequentially growth ordering take for us during the last three quarters, which is quite positive, and not just year-over-year. We can see this is a general recovery across all of our regional segments, and we see accelerated growth in certain areas or industries like defense, medtech, and power and energy.

There is to the ordering take an impact also here from some early ordering by customers. We have seen, as the market is growing and expanding, especially driven globally by data center applications, lead times are extending, and we also see prices going up now at the beginning of 2026.

Therefore, we also see customers who have the ability to forecast to place early order, and that is influencing our ordering take growth in the fourth quarter. We estimate that roughly 1/3 of that ordering take growth is related to these earlier order placements.

Very good recovery in our EBITA versus 2024, where we had a weak ending of the year. I think we see here a good recovery despite a strong FX headwind.

It's a combination of our gross margin improving sequentially. We are now basically on level where we were in Q4 2024, but really leveraging the growth now to our overhead structures, and with that driving better performance in financial EBITA.

Also, M&A activities have continued. We were able to sign and close with Multeq Teknik here in fourth quarter.

Multeq Teknik Mönsterkort is a Swedish company based in Gothenburg with a main customer base also in Sweden. It's a company that has a long history from 1975, which also included manufacturing, which was ended in 2008.

They are mainly focused on industrial applications, automotive, telecom, and medical. Revenue in their financial year 24-25 was approximately 110 million SEK, with an EBITA just below 20 million.

With that comes 15 new employees, of which eight are in Sweden, five in China, and two in Lithuania. The deal was closed on December 19th.

Looking then at Q4 in the numbers, we can see that our ordering take is up a strong 20% to 1 billion 92 million SEK versus 907 prior year. That equates to 33% organic growth in US dollars and a book-to-bill of 1.21.

Net sales also grew by 9% in Swedish kronor to 902 million versus 830 prior year. Also here, we can see the growth in organic in US dollars of more than 20%.

With EBITA, our EBITA increased to 98.6 versus 71.6 prior year, and now we have an EBITA margin of 10.9% versus 8% of last year. Gross margin, as can be seen, is equal to prior year, but having proved sequentially during the year.

You can also see our negative impact from FX in the quarter, which was a full 23 million SEK, and we'll elaborate on that a little bit later. Cash flow was at 22 million versus 45 prior year.

Working capital increased a little bit up versus last year, tied partly to the acquisitions, but also due to some temporary changes that we're doing with implementation of our ERP system. Net profit of 53 million versus 41.5, and EPS of 0.28 versus 0.22 last year.

With that, I give the word to you, Tim.

Tim Benjamin

Thanks, Peter. If we take a look at the full year, we saw order intake increasing 10% to just above 4 billion.

We saw a positive book-to-bill, especially driven by the second half of the year, of 1.09. While sales increased 3.6% to 3.7 billion SEK versus 3.6 billion SEK the year before, when we look at the organic growth, it was actually 5% in US dollars.

The EBITA margin came out for the year at 10.8% versus 12.4% prior year, mostly impacted by an adverse FX effect that you heard from Peter. For the full year, 53 million SEK, over 20 in Q4.

That's just a result of FX rates being significantly different in quarter one of 2025. Operating cash flow at 287 million SEK, impacted a little bit by the temporary increase in working capital in quarter four.

Then that all contributed to an earnings per share of 1.1 versus 1.36 in the prior year. The NCAB Board of Directors has proposed a dividend of 1.1 SEK per share.

When we take a look a little bit over time at the gross margin, it's nice to see that we're stabilizing at a high level at 35.1% for 2025. It was a little bit weaker than that in the first part of the year, and then developed well in the second half.

It's also nice to see the top line starting to grow as well. When we take a look at it, we see that order intake increased by 20% in the fourth quarter, but actually for comparable units in US dollars, up 33%.

That wasn't just driven by one particular segment. We saw positive development in all segments, especially so when you look at it in comparable units in US dollars, which is the typical trading currency in our industry.

Net sales followed, but still significantly below where the order intake level is. Up 21% in USD, a positive book-to-bill of 1.2.

There's a couple of particular industries to highlight here with a good positive trend in EV charging as well as continued positive development in aerospace and defense. When we look at EBITA, that developed well to 99 million SEK in the fourth quarter versus 72 in prior year.

The FX was impacted negatively in that quarter by 23 million SEK, which influenced the margin from where it would have otherwise been. Gross margin came in at 35.7%, which is just a hair below where it was in the prior year, but slightly higher than quarter three.

Acquired companies did have a slightly dilutive effect on gross margin versus the prior year, though. I should note that.

When we take a look and unpack the FX a little bit, I think it's interesting to look at where the US dollar versus the SEK was this year versus prior. This year in quarter four, on average, just a hair below 9.4 versus prior year at 10.8.

What that does for us is that impacts our revenue with basically -100 million SEK on the top-line side, which travels directly down to the gross profit side at -40. There's a small revaluation effect of -3, but most of it is just a pure translation effect at -37.

Within our SG&A, though, we have a little bit of a hedge against that, so that actually boosted the results a little bit with 17. The overall effect, you can see, is quite strong at -23.

Peter Kruk

Thank you, Tim. Moving over a little bit more in detail in the segments.

Starting with Nordics, you can see, again, a continued strong order intake development here with a growth of 24% in Swedish kronor. Here, though, there is some early order placement, which kind of further accelerates this growth.

The countries with the most significant increases were Denmark, Finland, and Norway. Net sales also grew nicely, even though we had significant FX impact in the markets here.

Large drivers here are the defense side, but also the EV charging business, which is resuming after having had a low period during large part of early part of '25 and later part of '24. EBITA amounted to 36.3 million SEK versus 31 in the prior year, and the margin came back up north of 15% to 15.9 versus 15.7, and really the result of good leverage on the net growth offsetting the impact of FX in the quarter.

Moving over to our largest segment, Europe, the ordering take also here increased. It grew by 13% to 483 versus 428.

That's an organic growth in the ordering take of 5% in Swedish kronor, but 21% in US dollars. It's a little bit of a mixed development here in the European segment, but clear positive trends in markets like Spain, Benelux, and Germany, which are recovering from a weak end of '24.

We can also see net sales growing 10% to 400 million SEK versus 365. Organically, the increase is 3% in Swedish kronor and 19% in US dollars.

The industries connected to automotive is still weak, and that is impacting primarily for us regions like UK and Italy, but we see a recovery in most other areas. The EBITA increased to 34 million SEK versus almost close to zero in end of Q4 2024, and the margin was now 8.5% versus only 1% in 2024.

Still, there's also here a negative impact from FX and some product mix on margins. North America, a very strong ordering take in the North American business.

We grew 31% over what was also a little bit of a weaker fourth quarter 2024 ordering take wise, but nevertheless, very strong development. We're making good progress with our new product introduction model that we sort of acquired through Phase 3 and are expanding across our US organization.

Strong growth also here in defense, but also related to power applications, auxiliary solutions around data centers. Even if NCAB is not in the high-volume data center market, we can still be participating in parts of the auxiliary systems.

Net sales are up 4% to 214 and 19% in US dollars. A note here again, as before, tariffs are included in the revenue, but are not registered as part of our ordering take, as the tariffs are only known when we bring the goods into the US market.

Our share of China-sourced products supplying for the US is continuing to decrease, and it's now in the low 40s percent. EBITA decreased to 26 million SEK versus 33, a margin of 12.1% versus 16.

It's a bit of timing, of course, and also adjusting a little bit to the higher pace that we're seeing in the ordering take that is impacting the margin in the fourth quarter. East, also here, a continued positive development, ordering take growing by 32% to 72 million SEK versus 55 the last year.

Ordering take in US dollars up a whole 49%, and we are capitalizing on the growth in high-tech, we're leveraging our supply base where customers who may have been buying direct and are struggling to get access, but they can have better access to the market through us, but we're also growing with the NCAB global customers growing in China. There's also here some pre-ordering effect that is also helping the numbers.

Net sales grew 7% to 59 million SEK, sorry, decreased 7% versus 63. Also here in US dollars down, but it's more a timing of business and deliveries in the different quarters.

Our EBITA is down to 7.5 versus 11, and equivalent to still a healthy margin of 12.7% versus a very strong margin of 17.3 in the end quarter of the prior year. There is some adverse mix here as well in product mix and pricing impacting the margin.

Tim?

Tim Benjamin

Yep. When we look at the return on equity, we see about 14.3% this year versus around 18.3% last year.

Equity fairly stable. You heard a little bit about the FX impacts on the earnings earlier in the call.

We just completed an acquisition of Multi-Teknik Mönsterkort. That drove our net debt to EBITDA up just a little bit to 1.8 versus 1.5 in the prior quarter or prior year.

Equity to asset ratio at about 40.9 versus 42.7 prior year. Working capital around 9.6% or 376 million SEK, a bit higher than this time last year, but you heard a little bit earlier from Peter that we have a bit higher temporary working capital as a result of some of our ERP go-lives.

Still quite a bit of available liquidity, with a little bit over 1.2 billion SEK available, and a proposed dividend of 1.1 SEK per share. Over to you, Peter.

Peter Kruk

Very good. As Tim mentioned, we have a good balance sheet and a lot of dry powder to continue our M&A activity, which is part of our strategy.

We are happy with the two acquisitions we did in 2025 and are continuing to work through our pipeline of both long lists and short lists, and have a number of good discussions pending or ongoing at this moment. Our model is that the integration process is an important part for us, and B&B and Multi-Teknik are now entering our process where the initial phase is very much about sort of getting to know our new friends in greater detail to understand in the areas where they are working differently, to ensure that we welcome the new colleagues to our company in a good way, as well as reassuring our customers of how we will continue to support them in a good way.

Following that, we will then start looking more into synergies or cooperation, how can we work closer in terms of our factory base, as well as longer-term integration of systems and finance roles. Here we are now in the beginning of the phase, and we are continuing, of course, to ideally add further acquisitions to our portfolio.

Historically and continuously, we're looking to see roughly half of our growth come through acquisitions over the cycle. Our strategy overall remains firm.

We remain 100% focused on printed circuit boards, and we're also believing strongly in our asset-light model where we don't invest and own any factories, but look to sort of provide superior service and flexibility for our customers. We continue to invest, though, in technology, as well as other services to be able to provide our customers better products and better service, and by that grow our market shares in the market where we have a presence.

We're also looking continuously to expand geographically, and we believe that M&A is a good way for us to open up new markets. It is very much a relationship business, and getting a first foothold in a new market speeds up that process, and then we can add the full value of the NCAB Group to these new markets as we go forward.

We also have, in predominantly Europe and North America, still a very fragmented market with a large number of smaller trading companies that date back to the '90s or early 2000s, when a lot of the manufacturing moved to Asia. Many of these companies have remained regional or local, and as they were started in the '90s, some 20, 30 years ago, many of these companies, there's also now a time where they are approaching a succession dilemma, and that is also a good opportunity where we can help these companies into the family of NCAB and give them also the strength of access to our full factory portfolio and our factory management organization.

With that, we conclude our presentation and open up for questions.

Operator

If you wish to ask a question, please dial pound key 5 on your telephone keypad to enter the queue. If you wish to withdraw your question, please dial pound key 6 on your telephone keypad.

The next question comes from Jonny Jin from SEB. Please go ahead.

Jonny Jin

Hi. Good morning, Peter and Timothy.

Hope you can hear me. I have a couple of questions.

Starting with organic order momentum, seems strong here, which is good. You mentioned both pre-orders, longer lead times, and increased PCB prices.

Starting with the price here, are there any price effects showing in Q4 orders at all? Secondly, what sort of magnitude of the price increase can we expect here at the beginning of 2026?

Peter Kruk

Thank you for your question. I think we do see very minor impact of pricing on Q4.

I think price is just really coming into effect here in beginning of 2026. There's predominantly early ordering, if anything, in the Q4 impact.

The magnitude, here it's a little bit volatile and it varies quite differently between different technologies because you have some which are very gold-heavy and then you see significant price increases, and in some areas you see more reduced. It's a combination right now of both capacity utilization, which is driving price increases, as well as commodities, and it's commodity on gold, metals, but also even the laminate materials.

I think we are estimating that the average price increase is in the order of 10%. Therefore, we expect probably say in Q4, we're going to see some positive impact of pricing, but then you're going to see the detraction from the pre-ordering.

On revenue, we don't expect really to see impact on revenue maybe more pronounced in the second half of '25 if this continues. Say '26, sorry.

Jonny Jin

So 10% on average, did I catch that correctly?

Peter Kruk

In that order of magnitude.

Jonny Jin

That's clear. Then a question here on the price, are there any margin impacts for you at all from the higher PCB prices?

Because as capacity utilization gets up and lead times longer, and then your prioritized deliveries get more important, I suppose your value to customers also becomes more important as well. Do you think you can increase your prices more than the increase of the input prices, or how should we view that on the margin?

Peter Kruk

I think we believe and if we look back in our history when we have seen significant price increases in the market, if you go back say to '21 or at that time when we start to see price increases, I think we've been quite good at keeping our gross margins. I think we're also sort of taking care of our customers in a good way that for us, I think it's more an opportunity where actually maybe we can see growth, because I think a number of customers right now with poor lead times, or lead times extending, that can actually be an opportunity where we at NCAB sometimes can have better opportunities to have stronger priority with the factories and maybe more see that as an opportunity of gaining market share as opposed to sort of driving margins further up.

I think we've been good at managing keeping margins with that growth.

Jonny Jin

Understood. Then moving to lead times there, could you try to please help us understand how much longer lead time we could expect?

If you look at historical patterns on order conversion patterns, for instance, historically here in Q1, it's sort of an average above 100% conversion on orders. Could that move below 100% now in Q1, or what is a reasonable assumption there?

Peter Kruk

We have a large variety of orders, and I think in history, we've had kind of on average, you've had almost a quarter delay from order to revenue. I think now we're looking more like five, six months maybe in some of these areas.

I think it's crept up at least one to two months in terms of lead time from what you would normally see on the average. I guess it's a little bit of a combination of, say, lead times and maybe some larger longer orders as well, which also impact this.

I think a large portion of the, say, the excess orders that we've seen in Q4 will spread over several quarters in '26.

Jonny Jin

Understood. Then just one final one from my side, if I may.

That is on the order growth intake. You mentioned that 1/3 is pre-buys, and my question there is, was that driven by a few number of customers only?

Then the rest here, 2/3 of the growth, how much would you say is existing customers and inventory normalization versus you taking on new customers and what sort of is the pipeline visibility here of the new customer entering the new year?

Peter Kruk

I would say on the pre-ordering side, you have a few things maybe which is more impacting. I think we also have in some cases where we have one larger customer, for instance, where we're making some factory shifts, and that sort of causes them to place bigger orders.

Actually, you see that pattern across where customers have good visibility. We've been working with them to sort of help them understand what kind of level of price increase are we seeing, and we've been negotiating with the factories to sort of give our customers room to react as well.

There is a little bit across many of our markets that we have seen this impact. I'd say on the basic order intake, if you look back, in US dollars, we were up 8% in Q2, ordering take wise.

We were 14% up organically in Q3. Now we are say 33%, maybe you take out around 10% maybe, maybe we're now north of 20% organically.

It's a clear progression of the ordering take growth. I think it's a combination of both growth in a couple of segments, but I think it's also the impact of inventory having come out of the system.

I think that is actually something that we can see in some of the segments like EV charging, where they already actually started to have outbound sales growth during say earlier parts of '25, but we only start to see the orders started to grow after the summer really.

Jonny Jin

Understood. That was all for me.

Have a great day.

Peter Kruk

Thank you.

Tim Benjamin

Thank you.

Operator

The next question comes from Jacob Edler from Danske Bank. Please go ahead.

Jacob Edler

Hi, Tim and Peter, and thanks for taking my questions. I have just one on Nordics to start with.

You've had a pretty significant build-up of order intake in the Nordic segment since the start of '24. I think if you kind of look at the accumulated orders relative to revenue, there's a kind of a $20 million backlog here.

How much of that, mainly I guess defense, aerospace, backlog can we expect you to deliver in '26 relative to further out, to speak?

Peter Kruk

I'm not sure if we have a number that we can give right now, but there is a significant portion of some of those say specifically defense orders which also run into '27. I think there is a non-insignificant part that actually also belongs in '27.

It's not all going to be in '26.

Tim Benjamin

As lead times tend to be

Jacob Edler

12 to

Tim Benjamin

24 month timeline for these.

Jacob Edler

Sorry, I heard you a bit poor there, Tim.

Tim Benjamin

No, I was just saying that lead times tend to be in the 12 to 24 month time frame for these.

Jacob Edler

Perfect. Just a question on the Europe segment then.

You mentioned that industrial demand is improving in some of the core countries here, including Germany. Even though, I guess, PMIs haven't skyrocketed during the quarter, would you say that the development is mainly driven by inventory replenishment and that inventory levels have reached kind of bottom levels and are now bouncing a bit, or how should we read it?

Peter Kruk

I think that as you say, I think German economy is not by any means, say, booming, but I think it's recovering. I think we're starting to see the signs of it recovering.

The effect of say inventory reductions diminishing is helping to see our numbers normalize as well, so.

Jacob Edler

Perfect. Then just a question I guess on automotive and UK, Italy.

Auto has been a drag for quite a while here. Would you say the trend is kind of somewhat stabilizing sequentially, and when do we kind of reach the point where we're kind of washing out the comps here, if you get my question?

Peter Kruk

I think to some extent, it has been stabilizing partly during the second half of 2025 on the automotive side. If you follow the reporting from the truck manufacturers, I think they start to show some positive ordering take numbers now in the US market.

Which I think was the initial really big drag on the truck industry. I think right now we don't see signs of things getting worse, but maybe actually there are some indicators that would indicate that this market will start to recover.

Jacob Edler

Very good. Then I just had maybe a last question just on North America, how much was related to tariff offsets price increases on tariffs here in Q4?

The increase was 19% in US dollars year-over-year. Are you able to add any more flavor there?

Tim Benjamin

We don't give out exact on tariffs in North America, but it was a fair portion.

Jacob Edler

Okay. Perfect.

Thank you so much for your answers.

Peter Kruk

Thank you.

Operator

The next question comes from Gustav Berneblad from Nordea. Please go ahead.

Gustav Berneblad

Yes, good morning. It's Gustav here from Nordea.

Just maybe to come back here to the early part of the Q&A regarding your gross margin guidance that you have sort of given with stating 35%, 36% should still be something we should expect longer-term. Do you see any hesitancy in regards to this margin guidance?

You comment on maybe looking a bit more at growth here, but what's your view there?

Tim Benjamin

No, not really. I think like Peter said, if you look at us historically, we've been able to handle both price increases in the market and price decreases in the market in a fairly good way and in good cooperation with our customers.

We try to make these type of partnerships sort of over the long term. There will always be a quarter or two here or there, a little bit like you saw in early '25, where we're adapting to new circumstances.

If you look at it over the medium or long term, no, I think it's still where we expect to be.

Gustav Berneblad

That's perfect. Then just one clarification.

When you take these pre-orderings, are there any risk to these orders in terms of cost inflation or that may cause lower profitability looking a few quarters out?

Tim Benjamin

When we take these type of pre-orders, what we're doing is we're lining them up back to back with factory pricing, it would be unusual, not impossible, but unusual for there to be a margin impact

Peter Kruk

from it. The only area where we sometimes can be exposed more is in kind of freight costs, which are more volatile and can change.

That is where we can sometimes get some volatility, but on product pricing, as you said, Tim, it's back to back with the factories, there's a tie between those orders and deliveries.

Gustav Berneblad

Okay. That's very clear.

Just in terms of these pre-ordering, just also a bit of a clarification, just wondering if there is a risk that you are undermining the market or if you're underestimating the magnitude of these pre-orderings? Is there a risk to that or do you have very good visibility of exact what are pre-orderings and what are not?

Tim Benjamin

No, actually, in this case, I think we have a pretty high degree of confidence on the pre-ordering. I think one of the nice things with a lot of the investments that we've been making in our ERP over the past couple of years is that we have quite good visibility into which customers and which regions this comes from.

No, I think we have a fairly good handle on it.

Gustav Berneblad

That's great. Then on your topic there, ERP, you should have gone live in Sweden and Norway right this quarter.

Is there a negative impact from the IT rollout in the Nordic segment this quarter?

Tim Benjamin

No, not particularly a negative impact in the Nordic side. Actually there, even if going live with these ERPs is a little bit of a struggle in the first couple of weeks and months, I think both Norway and Swedish teams handled it in a really good, really professional way.

I think there was actually less business impact than we feared there might be. At this point now, we're 75% of the way of the company loaded into the new ERP.

All of the large go-lives are actually behind us. Now we have three smaller entities in 2026 to go with, which are significantly less risky than the countries that we went live with in 2025.

Actually it's a comforting feeling going into '26 with the road map that we have. The one disturbance that we did see in the quarter, which Peter commented on a little bit earlier in the call, was on the working capital side.

We just have a few issues to work through with how we use the system to make sure that we're doing invoicing in the most optimal way so we can collect accounts receivables from our customers at the normal pattern. We expect to recover that in the next one to two quarters.

Gustav Berneblad

Oh, that's very clear. Then just one last question here from my side.

You also comment on the lower inventory levels supporting particular Europe here. What you are hearing in the market, is that the inventory levels are still on low levels in general, or are you seeing that normalization occurring right now, would you say?

Peter Kruk

I think from our perspective, it's not been that they've been super low, it's more that they were historically always high. I think now the fact that we are seeing orders pick up is maybe not that they're building up orders, but I think that they need to start ordering again.

I don't think we see customers gearing up and building inventory right now. I think it's more the fact that actually they are running out of old inventory and therefore, it kind of restarts the cycle of production in a greater deal.

Gustav Berneblad

Okay. That's very clear.

Thank you very much for taking my questions.

Peter Kruk

Thank you.

Gustav Berneblad

Thank you.

Operator

As a reminder, if you wish to ask a question, please dial pound key 5 on your telephone keypad. There are no more phone questions at this time, I hand the conference back to the speakers for any written questions and closing comments.

Gunilla Öhman

We have two questions written here, and the first one is from Johan, and he asks, "How do you view the current high demand and price trend within the more advanced PCBs, say, for high density interconnect, HDIs, and other advanced AI application? How is your exposure to this more high-tech segments, and are there spillover effects in terms of factory utilization, price levels, and so forth?"

Peter Kruk

This is a good question and is very much the case. I think what we see is that even if we are not directly supplying to the high-volume data center applications, it is creating sort of ripple effects through the industry.

A number of the application where we are also working with these high-tech technologies is seeing that increased workload, because there is this kind of spillover where those factories who are directly focused on data centers, they are forced to sort of move other production out to the other kind of manufacturers. This is creating, in part of what is driving lead times, is also of course driving price increases from these factories who are now very fully utilized.

It also creates opportunities, because NCAB, we have very strong relationships with our partner factories. We are generally between 10% to 20% of their turnover, and that means that we still have good priority.

It actually becomes an opportunity for customers who are struggling to get access to find access through NCAB.

Gunilla Öhman

Great. The second question comes from Carlos Moreno, and he's asking, "It's amazing that diversification of suppliers means moving from China to Taiwan.

Can you find price-quality suppliers anywhere else in the world, and what do the defense companies do? Must be a great time to set up a factory in India, et cetera."

Peter Kruk

Our activities of course growing here is not only in Taiwan. Taiwan happens to be our largest non-Chinese region in the market.

We're also developing business in Korea, Malaysia, Thailand as well, and I think there is where we see a lot of growth happening as well. India, maybe not so much for the kind of technologies and qualities that our customers are demanding, but a lot of activity in the whole of Southeast Asia.

Beyond what we currently see in terms of orders of revenue through these factories in '25, if you look upon the activity of sampling, validation activities, there's a lot of activity outside these markets.

Gunilla Öhman

That was the last question we had. I just would like to thank you and remind you that our first quarter report for '26 is on 23rd of April.

Very welcome back, and thank you, Peter and Tim.

Peter Kruk

Thank you.

Tim Benjamin

Thank you.