Thanks, operator. Good afternoon, everyone, and thanks for joining this HOCHTIEF full-year results call for 2025.

I'm Mike Pinkney, Head of Capital Markets Strategy, and I'm here with our CEO, Juan Santamaría, and our CFO, Christian Drescher, as well as the Head of IR, Tobias Loskamp, and other colleagues from the senior management team of HOCHTIEF. We're looking forward to your questions, but to start with, our CEO is going to run us through the details of another very strong set of numbers and provide you with an update on the group strategy.

Juan, all yours.

Thank you, Mike and team, and welcome to everyone joining us for this results call. I'm delighted to present to you HOCHTIEF's results for 2025, a year in which we achieved an outstanding operational and financial performance as well as major advances in our strategic delivery.

Let's kick off with the numbers, and then I'll give you an update on the important progress we're making with our growth strategy. HOCHTIEF's operational net profit increased by 26% to €789 million, which rises to 35% on an FX-adjusted basis.

These results significantly exceed the guidance we provided to the market 12 months ago of €680 to €730, and is even slightly above the updated 2025 target we indicated in November of €750 to €780. Nominal net profit is also higher at €902 million, up 16% year on year.

The excellent profit trend was driven by strong sales growth of 15% to over €38 billion, 21% adjusting for FX, as well as higher margins. The quality of HOCHTIEF's profit delivery is underlined by the strong cash conversion achieved.

Operating cash flow in 2025 of €2.1 billion was €248 million higher year on year pre-factoring, supported by strong working capital performance. As a result, the group ended the year with a slight reduction in net debt despite significant net strategic M&A investments and dividends.

If we adjust for capital allocation effects, we would have finished the year with a net cash position of over €1 billion. A further highlight of 2025 was the acceleration in the growth of our project wins.

New orders were sharply higher at €52.6 billion, up 32% FX-adjusted year on year, with a strong fourth-quarter momentum in key wins across strategic growth verticals. New work secured during the year represents a book-to-bill ratio of 1.3 times and highlights HOCHTIEF's positive growth trajectory.

As a result, we ended last year with our order backlog at an all-time high of €72.5 billion, up 18% on a comparable basis, and providing a strong and diversified foundation for continued growth. Furthermore, we continue advancing in our derisking drive with around 90% of our project portfolio of a lower-risk nature.

Reflecting HOCHTIEF's very strong performance and taking into account the solid growth prospects envisaged for 2026 and beyond, the proposed dividend for last year is €6.6 per share. This represents a 26% increase year on year, consistent with the group's operational net profit growth, and is in line with our 65% dividend payout policy.

The group's operational net profit guidance for 2026 of €950 to €1,025 million envisages another year of strong growth for HOCHTIEF and corresponds to an increase of 20 to 30% year on year. Let's take a quick look at our performance at the segment level.

Turner delivered a standout performance in 2025. Sales increased by 34% year on year to €25.8 billion, or 40% FX-adjusted, driven by the very strong growth in our data center business.

The acquisition of Dornan Engineering, the rapidly growing advanced tech mechanical and electrical business, further enhanced growth. In other areas such as healthcare, education, sports, and airports were also strong, with solid double-digit revenue growth.

Turner delivered very strong operational PBT, reaching €921 million, an increase of 62%, and above the top end of the recently raised guidance of €850 to €900 million. I think it is worth underlining that the original indication we provided to you a year ago of up to €750 million was exceeded by a striking 23%.

This profit growth was supported by a further increase in the operational PBT margin, 60 basis points year on year to 3.6%, meaning that we have already surpassed the 3.5% target we had for 2026 a year ahead of schedule. Turner's outlook remains extremely positive.

New orders rose a very significant 38% to $33.6 billion, with particularly strong growth in data center contracts, which more than doubled, as well as increases in areas such as biopharma, aviation, and commercial. As a result, the record year-end order backlog of $37.7 billion was up 34% in USD terms.

Due to Turner's sustained growth trajectory, we expect an operational PBT increase of 25 to 30% to between $1.3 and $1.35 billion in 2026. Moving on, CIMIC delivered a steady performance in 2025.

On a comparable basis, sales were stable year on year with solid increases in the key growth verticals offsetting the completion of large transport projects. I would highlight that data center revenues almost doubled year on year.

Operational PBT of €473 million was up 5% with a solid margin in line with 2024 and supported by improved operating cash flow development pre-factoring. CIMIC's solid order backlog of €21.8 billion was up by 6% year on year adjusted for the UGL Transport stake divestment and FX.

Over half of the year-end work in hand relates to high-growth areas, including digital and advanced tech, defense, and further diversification of the group's commodity mix. We expect CIMIC to achieve an operational profit before tax for 2026 in the range of approximately €780 to €830 million, a 4 to 10% comparable raise adjusting for the UGL Transport sale.

Next, we have our Engineering & Construction segment, which is on a very solid growth path. Sales of €1.7 billion increased by 9% year on year, and operational PBT grew by 28% to €98 million, both on a comparable basis, and just ahead of our €85-€95 million profit guidance range.

The business delivered strong cash conversion with net operating cash flow of €156 million in the period. During the year, Engineering & Construction secured new orders of over €6 billion, up a very notable 38%.

As a consequence of this strong development, the €13 billion order backlog is 18% higher on an FX-adjusted basis. For 2026, we see our Engineering & Construction segment accelerating its growth, with an operational profit before tax of between €125 and €140 million, which implies an increase of up to 42% year on year.

Let's take a brief look now at Abertis, which achieved a solid operational performance in 2025. Average daily traffic at the toll road company increased by 2% year on year, with revenues and EBITDA on a comparable basis up 4% and 6% respectively, reflecting a solid underlying business performance.

The operational net profit pre-PPA amounted to just over €700 million, with a year-on-year variation including adverse tax effects in France. The profit contribution from our 20% stake in Abertis after PPA amounted to €58 million, and we expect Abertis to deliver a similar operational contribution in 2026.

Now, allow me to update you on the group's strategic delivery and long-term growth opportunities. HOCHTIEF's strategy has positioned the group as a uniquely well-placed global provider of engineering-led, end-to-end infrastructure solutions.

During the last 3 years, we have advanced to become a leader in rapidly expanding strategic growth verticals, including the AI, digital, and tech sector, energy, including nuclear, critical minerals, and defense, where infrastructure investments continue to accelerate. This momentum builds on our long-established, locally embedded presence in core infrastructure markets in North America, Australia, and Europe, which remains the foundation for our competitive strengths and our ability to scale into these next-generation markets as a lifecycle partner.

We command a strong competitive position in the AI, digital, and tech sector, and we have solidified our global leadership in data center engineering and construction with €16.8 billion of new orders in 2025, representing 21% of the group's total backlog. Just last week, Turner was selected as the construction manager for the $10 billion, 1-gigawatt data center campus for Meta in Indiana.

We have solid medium-term visibility via our order book and our expanding project pipeline in North America, Europe, and APAC. Growth in the global data center market remains extremely strong.

Soaring demand for cloud services and artificial intelligence is expected to quadruple D&C and compute capex by 2035, boosted by the growth of generative AI and further cloud migration. The group has the capacity and capabilities, as a firmly established global end-to-end solution provider, to address this rising demand, supported by its ability to attract talent and by: number one, leveraging our scale and relationships with hyperscalers and subcontractors; two, applying our global sourcing expertise; and three, by our increasing adoption of modularization and off-site manufacturing to deliver projects faster, safer, and with higher quality.

As part of this strategy to expand the group's presence in the entire AI ecosystem, HOCHTIEF is developing a pan-European network of sustainable edge data centers. A few months ago, we inaugurated our first edge data center, developed, owned, and operated by HOCHTIEF, a major milestone for the group's data center strategy.

Three further data center sites will go live by the end of 2027. Our ambition is to have over 30% of them in Europe by the end of the decade.

HOCHTIEF will operate this edge data center network with innovative cloud computing solutions that offer digital sovereignty and enormous growth potential. Overall, we're increasing our participation across the full AI stack, including not just data centers, but also semiconductors, cloud infrastructure services, and applications, as well as moving into longer-term opportunities in areas such as agents and robotics.

Energy is another strategic growth market for HOCHTIEF. Rising investment in energy security and the global transition to low-carbon systems underpins sustained demand for energy projects.

HOCHTIEF is deeply engaged in these segments, delivering projects spanning electricity generation, grid-scale storage, high-voltage transmission, and regional grid fortification. We have several decades of experience designing and building nuclear power plants and facilities across the world, delivering end-to-end services in an industry which could see over €500 billion in investment in Europe by 2050.

During the final quarter of 2025, we secured a €685 million, 15-year framework contract in the UK for civil infrastructure work at the Sellafield nuclear site. At the beginning of 2026, an important strategic milestone was reached where HOCHTIEF was selected as part of Amentum's global project delivery team for the Rolls-Royce SMR nuclear program.

In renewables, we continue to strengthen our market presence, particularly in Australia, where companies have delivered more than 20 major renewable and storage projects. We're also capitalizing on the accelerating requirement for critical minerals, driven by clean energy technologies, digital infrastructure, and defense modernization.

HOCHTIEF, through the combined capabilities of Sedgman and Thiess, has built a global position in minerals processing and sustainable mining services, with projects across key commodities, including lithium, copper, rare earth, nickel, vanadium, uranium, and zinc. In December, the group expanded its partnership with Vulcan Energy with a significant cornerstone equity investment, as well as securing an end-to-end role in developing its lithium production and processing infrastructure here in Germany.

As part of the agreement, the group has been appointed as the engineering, procurement, and construction management contractor and named as preferred supplier for the project's civil construction works. We have also won a contract to provide a feasibility study and front-end engineering design work for a major lithium project in France.

Defense is another key growth vertical for the group, with investment in related infrastructure expected to substantially increase globally for several years. In Europe, medium multi-year defense investment plans, including Germany, present substantial opportunities in defense-related capital works and potentially via the PPP model.

In the US and Australia, governments plan major ramp-ups in defense spending over the next decade. At the end of 2025, the group had a defense order book of over €2 billion, which included the construction of a major dry dock at Pearl Harbor for the US Navy, work for the Royal Australian Air Force base in Queensland, and defense infrastructure upgrades in South Australia.

Furthermore, our North American civil works business, Flatiron, has been selected as one of the group of companies for a potential $15 billion worth of contract opportunities for the US Air Force Civil Engineer Center. Yesterday, we announced that HOCHTIEF has secured a major 10-year collaborative contract for the German Armed Forces in Hamburg worth several hundred million euros.

Our core infrastructure capabilities are key for the group's ability to fully harness the growth opportunities we have identified. On average, around 85% of infrastructure investment in our growth verticals relates to our core construction know-how.

As we hold leading positions across several core segments, including healthcare, biopharma, sports stadiums, and education, and we have been a global leader in transport infrastructure and sustainable mobility for several decades, where the outlook is very positive due to several infrastructure stimulus packages in our key geographies: North America, Asia-Pac, and Europe. In Germany, for example, a €500 billion infrastructure fund will see its first full year deployment in 2026.

HOCHTIEF is very well positioned to benefit due to scalability of its business model and its core expertise in bridges, rail, and transmission lines, with the group's German order book doubling over the last 3 years to over €5 billion. Let me take a moment now to outline our dynamic and disciplined capital allocation approach, which is key objective for management.

2025 was a very active year for strategic M&A. In January, we closed the €400 million acquisition of Dornan, a major milestone in Turner's European expansion strategy, and we also finalized the Flatiron-Dragados combination, creating the second-largest civil engineering construction player in North America.

During the year, we strengthened our position in high-quality concessions through an €80 million participation in Abertis' €400 million capital raise to support its acquisition of the A63 toll road in France, extending its portfolio duration and enhancing our exposure to stable infrastructure assets. As part of the expanded agreement mentioned earlier with Vulcan Energy, HOCHTIEF agreed in December to a €130 million cornerstone investment in Vulcan shares to become its largest shareholder.

The move is aligned with HOCHTIEF's strategy to expand across critical minerals and energy transition value chain, building an integrated presence in investment, extraction, processing, and infrastructure. In CIMIC, announced the formation of a strategic partnership with Sojitz Corporation, under which the Japanese company will acquire a 50% equity interest in UGL's transport business.

Our capital deployment remains focused on scalable, high-return equity investment opportunities to increase our presence in the value chain for strategic growth markets and PPPs. Group-wide cooperation and synergies are critical to delivering on this strategy.

Over the last 3 years, we have committed €600 million of equity investment in strategic growth markets, including an initial investment in our edge data center platform based in Germany, as well as the acquisition of the remaining 50% of cloud services provider Horizon. Internally, we're optimizing our core tech platform and systems, as well as supporting our talent management, AI, and digital systems, transforming how we work and enabling the group to deliver innovative, efficient, and smarter solutions for clients.

Our shared expertise, talent mobility, and a collaborative culture enable HOCHTIEF to operate as one unified global organization, strengthening the quality, consistency, and impact of its work. Talent management is critical to create the teams which drive the business forward, and we're proud to have had a 2025 intake of 4,500 engineers and technical employees.

Moving to ESG, our focus on environmental, social, and governance initiatives remains on track. On this front, it is notable that HOCHTIEF has been upgraded to Prime status during 2025 for its ESG performance and achievements by ISS ESG rating agency.

Let me conclude with a few closing remarks. Our strategic agenda is focused on positioning HOCHTIEF for sustained high-quality growth while reinforcing the resilience and long-term value of the group.

Our key priorities are: first, driving top-line growth by expanding our value proposition and capturing megatrend demand; two, expanding margins through the delivery of higher-value services, engineering capabilities, supply chains, and integrated systems; advancing operational integration by simplifying corporate structure and transitioning into a more high-tech enabled, efficient organization with a lower cost base; enhancing cash flow stability and sustainability through further derisking the group's business model, generating long-term value creation and sustainable dividend growth that drives shareholder returns. HOCHTIEF has entered 2026 with a strong financial foundation and with a unique position as a global end-to-end provider of infrastructure solutions across our high-growth verticals, supported by our leadership position in core markets.

The group's operational net profit guidance for 2026 of €950 to €1,025 million targets another year of accelerating growth, implying an increase of 20 to 30% year on year. Based on our guidance, in 2026, we will have doubled HOCHTIEF's profit in the space of just 4 years.

Looking forward, HOCHTIEF is embracing the future by developing its strategic presence in its growth markets. Our strong and expanding presence in these interconnected sectors is a key competitive advantage and underpins our long-term growth strategy.

Combined with our strong balance sheet and backed by disciplined cash management, we have created the necessary conditions to pursue further significant growth opportunities and continue delivering substantial value for all stakeholders. Thank you for listening.

We're ready now to take your questions. We're ready for questions now, operator.

Thank you.

Hi, yeah. Good afternoon.

Thank you for the questions. I've got three, if that's okay.

First, just on the guidance that you provided at your CMD last year, just wanted to confirm that's still intact for Turner, the 3.9% EBITDA margin, I think, and the 30% EBITDA growth. That's the first question.

Second question, just trying to reconcile what's been extremely strong order intake in the Turner business, I think up, doubling in Q4, and very, very strong outlooks from some of your hyperscaler customers, with, relative to that, maybe growth which is not as strong as maybe some were expecting, or just not reflecting that sort of extremely strong outlook from your customers. I was just wondering, are you reaching some capacity limits in the Turner business?

Is there a reason why maybe that doubling of order intake isn't translating to faster growth in 2026? Then third question, just on operational synergies across the business, just an update there in terms of how you're progressing with some of those projects.

Thank you.

Thank you, Graham. Let me start with the first one.

Let me start with a general reflection that pretty much talks about guidance in general. When it comes to Turner, you're right.

The 2025 order book of around $17 billion, it represents a 144% growth, and the new orders of $18.1 billion, it's a 170%, and we had a very strong Q4. Furthermore, there's around $10 to $12 billion of work that is not reflected in the backlog for Turner because, as we always say, the way we engage into these contracts is always through a negotiation, working on design.

Once we are preferred, but before we can really put it in the backlog. The growth of Turner is very strong.

Now, in terms of guidance, there's always, at the beginning of the year, a lot of unknowns and uncertainties, geopolitically speaking, etc. We prefer to be conservative as we were last year, and we were the previous year, and we prefer to update throughout the year, right?

Turner is not reaching capacity, not at all. We will continue seeing very strong growth.

We're very comfortable with that. We just want to make sure that we secure all of that into the balance sheet, that there's no surprises, that there's no geopolitical changes before we provide further updates.

That applies to Turner, and that applies to the rest of the business. In terms of operational synergies, I believe that we're going to make progress during 2026.

We do have a high target. We are expecting to reach cost reduction, first as we streamline the process, reduce bureaucracy, we upgrade our systems, and we're going to be simplifying and decreasing costs.

How much, we would like to give that update throughout the year, right? Especially because we want to make sure that we achieve all those synergies during 2026, and our intention is, by the end of 2026, to update through another Capital Markets Day as we did back in '24 for the following next 3 years.

We want to make sure that we secure, we consolidate in all the high-growth areas, we incorporate all these projects, we put all the synergies in place, and then we provide the update.

Thank you, Juan. Very helpful.

Yes, good afternoon. Thank you for taking my questions.

My first question is on cash flow generation. You had a strong inflow of working capital in 2025.

To what extent do you believe this is something that is structural and should continue in 2026? You have strong order backlog, presumably we could expect another wave of prepayments.

Is that the right way to think about cash flow for 2026? My question number two, this is just a bit detail on the numbers, if you allow me.

I wanted to ask you, in your segmental reporting, you have a line which is basically referring to Abertis and headquarters expenses, and this line remains very negative. I'm just wondering, why such a negative item in that line, and is there any change in that line for 2026?

Maybe those two questions.

Okay. Starting with the cash flow, as we continue to grow, we expect to see an improvement in cash flow.

We are looking to a positive 2026 from a cash flow perspective as well, and net operating cash flow as has been the last 2 years. A lot of the cash conversion positive development that we're seeing, it's also as a consequence of the change in our strategy, getting into a lot of these high-growth areas, securing all these projects.

We hope that that will continue. When you were asking about the holding, that was at Abertis level or at HOCHTIEF level, just to clarify?

No, for segmental reporting of HOCHTIEF, there is this line, Abertis and headquarters. That's more at HOCHTIEF level, that's right.

What we did was we introduced non-cash provisions and some deferred taxes. The underlying is stable, but we had non-cash profits during the year, and typically we don't want to reflect that in the P&L.

All right. Thank you.

Hi, thanks for allowing me to ask some questions. Congratulations for the results.

These are amazing results stepped back. I'll start with two questions.

First, on Turner, as you said, the profit before tax margin, 3.6% already in 2025. Where can margins go for Turner, let's say, in the medium term as the mix of data centers increases?

The second question is some more details about Turner data centers. If you could provide us the new order intake in data centers for the full year '25, the backlog, and the revenue from data centers in USD terms, please.

Thanks.

Let me start with the first one. Couple of things.

First, on the profit before tax margin, that was 3.6% in 2025. In the last Capital Markets Day in 2024, we anticipated that 3.5% would be reached in '26, we achieved that 1 year in advance.

Now, what's going to happen? First, that will continue growing at least at the same pace as has been growing in the recent years, right, as we do more high-tech projects.

Two, there's going to be another component, which is we will continue to increase our self-performance capabilities and the portion of the projects through supply chain, but also through modularization. That's going to increase margins.

That's a big part of our strategy that we did announce last year, and we will want to consolidate during this year. With Turner, as I said before, we had strong intake.

We're seeing big prospects coming to Turner and other areas of the business. If you go through data center-specific question, the backlog right now in data center is $16.4 billion.

Just in data centers, there's another $10 to $12 billion that is not included in this number, but we've been preferred, but we are going through design, therefore we cannot reflect, right? That it's a year-on-year increase of 144%.

The order intake of data centers during the year has been $18.1 billion, and that's an increase of 170%. Again, that doesn't include $12 billion, the $12 billion that I mentioned before, right?

If we move to the rest of the areas, we are seeing very much increase in biopharma, in aviation, including aerospace, a significant increase, but it's coming from a much lower base, in commercial. Then the rest of the business is stable, except probably other areas like hotels or some more traditional that is coming down, okay?

In the rest of the segments, there's another $10 billion that is not reflected in their backlog in the same way that the $12 billion of data centers, that we are preferred, but it's not in the backlog. In essence, there's a total backlog of $44.3 billion of Turner, out of which $16.4 billion is data centers, and you would need to add an amount of $22 billion to that $44.3 that we are preferred, but it's not in the backlog.

Good afternoon, Juan and rest of the team. Thanks a lot for taking our questions.

I had three, if I can. The first one is, if my numbers are correct, there's been a sharp acceleration in the E&C margin in Q4.

I don't know if you can shed some light on why that has been. The second question, and apologies if you have mentioned it, there's so much detail and information that I might have missed it, but the operational result contribution from Abertis was guided at €81 million for the full year, but it was 58 in the end.

Could you please explain the reasons behind the miss, if I might call it? Then the third question, there have been press reports in Spain on your potential interest to spend as much as €1 billion in defense technology players, very military-driven players, not construction-related or anything like that.

Should we expect you to be active on this particular M&A front? Thank you.

Excellent. Let me start with the first one on E&C in Q4.

E&C, especially Germany and Europe, is going to see a big increase moving forward. We're expecting a big increase in 2026.

2026 certainly the profit of HOCHTIEF in Europe will start going up, and you saw the guidance that we're giving, but more importantly, the order intake and the backlog. Why?

Because there's a lot of work coming from Deutsche Bahn, there's a lot of work coming from Autobahn, and there's a lot of work coming from defense, and that's going to start coming to the company. Now, when it comes to Abertis, in general, there's a positive operational performance in '25, right, when you look at the tariff developments and the traffic, so that continue.

There's an impact on the profit because of the corporate tax in France, right, and that's probably what you're looking at when you see the difference. Then the other part could be the foreign exchange rate movements and the PPA.

Then when it comes to the press report in defense, we don't know where that article came from. Certainly, when it comes to M&A, we're going to continue being selective and making sure that incorporates additional capabilities to us.

I know that there's a lot of focus on our growth in data centers in the last years and the next years for the right reasons, and that will continue to grow significantly, but we would like to grow in the different verticals, right? There's growth in the critical metal sector, there's a lot of growth in the energy sector, we see a lot of growth in the nuclear sector, and we see a lot of growth in defense.

Now, how we use our capital allocation among all those verticals to incorporate engineering capabilities and additional capabilities is something that we're deeply analyzing, and we will be very selective. We haven't announced anything, and if we do, you will all be the first ones to know.

Excellent. Thank you.

Then

Thank you for allowing the follow-up. Just one on your nuclear capabilities actually.

I don't know if you could provide a little bit more color around the Rolls-Royce SMR program, just in terms of the timelines there in terms of when we might see impact on the order book and maybe just scale and just what your thoughts are there on the outlook for that win. Thanks.

Or that partnership.

Thank you, Graham. Let me start with the main numbers on the project, right, that you saw.

The Rolls-Royce contract is, in reality, a program, right? This is pretty much to deploy the SMR plan from Rolls-Royce across Europe and potentially beyond.

We won that in cooperation with Amentum to become the program delivery partner, and the idea is to start. The first ones will be implemented in the United Kingdom and other places in European Union.

Now, in terms of the contract, right now they are looking at the deployment of the first three to four, but there's an initial plan of 15 that will be deployed. The initial ones have a cost of around €6 billion, and this is just an estimate, and the idea is to decrease that over time.

We're still working on the different components of that capex and how it will be distributed, etc. The initial part is mainly engineering, and our work will be to help as part of the construction, to try to modularize as much as possible, to optimize those SMRs and make sure that they can build at scale, with the right supply chain, the right modularization, and standardizing the construction.

For us, it's a very important project. As HOCHTIEF built 13 out of 20 large plants in the past.

Since then, we've been basically maintaining and dismantling. You saw that, well, we continue doing a lot of that work in Germany, and we won Sellafield and Eastern countries, but now we wanted to go taking advantage of the new wave of nuclear, moving from dismantling and maintaining to building large plants.

There's a big plan that we are deploying with the first contract being this one, but we continue working to enhance our capabilities because we see a lot of potential in Europe, in the UK, in Eastern countries, other places, but then it will come in the US. We're building our capabilities, and we're creating alliances.

As we evolve in our strategy, we will provide further updates during 2026.

Thank you.

yes. Maybe three more from my side.

On the data center revenue in Turner, I don't know if you provided a detail before. It would be helpful to know the revenue from data center in Turner in USD terms in 2025.

Then second question, the intake was $16.4 billion, I think, for Turner. That implies another $3 billion USD of intake in data centers somewhere else in the business.

Is that mainly Asia-Pacific? Maybe can you tell us more about these projects?

Last question, strategically, why are you investing in the digital cloud infrastructure for the edge data center in Germany and Europe? Why not just keeping the edge data center, why also investing in the digital part of the infrastructure?

Thanks.

Starting with the revenues of Turner in 2025, I think that it was $10 billion US dollars just in data centers, okay? We're expecting that figure to continue increasing all the way up to $25 billion to be achieved '29, '30, being conservative.

Let me jump to the last one because I will ask some clarity around the $16.4 billion question. On the digital cloud, the difference between the big ones and the small ones is that the small ones have two main purposes.

The first one is it's mainly inference, AI processing capability, but also from a data storage perspective, it's pure co-lo. We commercialize among a lot of different clients.

In the big ones, typically between one or two clients, and that type of business with the big ones is more kind of a lease of the facility versus the other business that we provide the full package, right, the cloud services, the cyber, etc. That's why, as we deliver the full service, we are enhancing our capabilities in this area.

Now, around the second question, can you repeat the question about the $16.4 billion, please?

Yes. In slide 8 of the presentation, at the very top left, it says total order for data centers is €16.8 billion in 2025.

I guess most of it is in Turner, but there is a portion of that orders that is somewhere else in the business. I was curious to learn more about these projects outside of the US, outside Turner, let's say.

The Turner one is the figure that I gave before that was the order intake of $18.1 billion and the backlog of $16.4 billion. The difference is mainly Leighton towards the rest of the numbers.

We can provide you with all the figures in a follow-up call.

Okay. Thanks, Juan.

Thanks very much, operator. Thanks to everyone for calling in, and obviously we're delighted to follow up with any further detail offline.

Thank you, everyone. Thank you for your time.