Alstom SA

Alstom SA

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Q3 FY2026 · Earnings Call TranscriptJanuary 20, 2026

Operator

Hello and welcome to Alstom third quarter orders and sales for fiscal year 2025 and 2026. My name is George and I'll be your coordinator for today's event.

Please note that this conference is being recorded and for the duration of the call your lines will be in listen-only mode. However, you have the opportunity to ask questions towards the end of the presentation and this can be done by pressing star 1 on your telephone keypad to register your question.

If you require assistance at any point, please press star 0 and you will be connected to an operator. I'd like to hand the call over to your host today, Mr.

Bernard Delpit, Executive Vice President and CFO. Please go ahead, sir.

Bernard Delpit

Good evening, everyone. Thanks for joining the group's orders and sales update for the third quarter of this fiscal year 2025-2026.

Let's start with orders on slide three. Alstom recorded 20 billion euros of orders in the first nine months.

The book-to-bill ratio was 1.4, accelerating to 2 in the third quarter. As a result, the backlog reached 100.3 billion euros, up from 96 at the end of September.

Some color by region and product lines: the Americas are on track for the best year ever in terms of commercial momentum, with orders in Mexico and Canada this quarter adding to the large orders in New York and New Jersey booked in the first half. Europe remains the largest contributor, supported by numerous rolling stock options being exercised in France, as well as first-time orders in Central and Southern Europe.

The order intake for services accelerated in the third quarter, with several large rolling stock contracts being bundled with maintenance, like for instance PKP in Poland, Baden-Württemberg in Germany, in Mexico and in Greece. Systems also got its fair share of order intake thanks to the turnkey contract in Melbourne.

Signaling order intake was softer in Q3, but the product line had a solid first half with contract wins in Italy, Taiwan, Brazil and Singapore. Turning to slide 4 and details on the third quarter, where we booked 9.6 billion euros of orders.

This record quarter reflects not only stronger global demand for rail solutions, but also robust tendering activity and contract awards in geographies that we consider as our home markets. It also demonstrates our ability to provide integrated solutions to clients, not only when we sell rolling stock together with maintenance, but also when we deliver turnkey projects.

It also shows the growing success of the rolling stock platforms, with some of them already being in service and some others being in the final stages of approval. Looking at examples of large orders booked in the third quarter, the Avelia Horizon platform continues to gain momentum as the only very high-speed double-deck solution on the market, with nearly 200 trainsets now on order across multiple clients, both private and public.

In the quarter, as part of the framework agreement with SNCF, we secured two additional tranches for a total of 2 billion euros. One tranche covers 30 trainsets for Eurostar, which will be the first double-deck trains to operate through the Channel.

The other tranche is for 15 trainsets for SNCF for international operations, notably between France and Belgium. The Coradia Max double-deck regional solution is currently under development and testing for German clients.

We booked two major contracts for a total of 2.1 billion euros: one in Poland for the supply of 42 Coradia Max trainsets for PKP Intercity, together with long-term maintenance, another in Baden-Württemberg where the region exercised an option for 26 additional trainsets, also with maintenance. Looking at Mexico, we signed a contract worth 920 million for the supply of 47 trainsets and maintenance for new rail corridors in the country.

This project builds on Alstom's strong industrial footprint in Mexico and leverages the development and expertise gained through the Tren Maya project that was recently completed. In Greece, we signed a contract of nearly 400 million with Hellenic Train for 23 Coradia Stream regional trainsets and 10 years of maintenance.

These trains will be produced at the Savigliano site in Italy, using the proven Coradia Stream platform already deployed for several customers across Europe. In Australia, we secured a 1 billion euro share of the suburban rail loop east line contract in Melbourne.

Under this system contract, we will deliver 13 automated metro trains, signaling, maintenance and a range of subsystems. In Canada, we booked a 1.4 billion euro contract for metro cars for Toronto.

I want to emphasize that this record level of order intake does not go against our selective approach when responding to tenders. In the last few months, a number of large contracts in Switzerland or Denmark, for instance, went to competitors because we choose not to participate when our solution was too far from the customers' requirements or because the contractual conditions were considered by us as too stringent.

All this considered, the average margin on new orders continues to exceed the average backlog margin. Moving to operational highlights on slide 5, starting with some delivery milestones.

In the third quarter, the first MF19 metro train entered service in Paris. The deployment of this new generation of rail metro trains will continue across eight metro lines through 2033.

This year also includes homologation procedures underway for several major projects. This of course includes the Avelia Horizon for the launch customer SNCF, another TGV name, as well as locomotives and the Coradia Max double-deck regional train solution.

Now looking at the industrial footprint, we are continuously adapting the footprint to align with backlog and demand, as well as strengthen Alstom's competitive advantage. For example, construction of the new assembly line in France for Avelia Horizon is progressing as planned.

The site in Fez, Morocco, has completed its first production line for driver's cabs and is expanding its capacity in components, including converters. At the same time, we continue to execute the transformation plan in Germany.

We are also considering various options to adapt the Bruges site in Belgium in light of current backlog. As a result of this right-sizing initiative, we now expect non-operating expenses to land above the 100 million mark.

Turning to slide 6 on production, volumes remain broadly stable over the first nine months in line with full-year plan. In the third quarter, sequential improvement in India for metros and in Germany for EMUs helped offset the seasonal slowdown in South Africa.

Compared to last year, the production mix has shifted with now a higher share of projects currently in ramp-up phases. This evolution in the portfolio mix supports operational momentum and prepares the ground for a volume increase in Q4.

We now foresee car production this year to land within a range of 4,300 to 4,400. Turning to sales on slide seven, sales reached 13.9 billion euros in the first nine months, up 7.2% on an organic basis and down from 7.9 in H1.

Q3 organic growth was 5.9%, largely due to a tough comparison base. The same effect should lead to Q4 organic growth moderating.

All product lines, with the exception of systems, contributed to the sales growth. In particular, rolling stock sales totaled 7.2 billion euros, reflecting 6% organic growth.

This was driven by strong ramp-up in Germany, with double-digit growth across multiple regional train projects, continued momentum in France, notably supported by the RER NG program, and in Asia-Pacific, the locomotive business in India remains an important growth driver. Services sales reached 3.4 billion, with 9% organic growth, supported by strong performance in Italy, the UK, Australia, and people movers in the U.S.

Sales in signaling came in at 2 billion, with 13% organic growth, driven by robust execution in France and Italy. Finally, systems sales totaled 1.3 billion euros, flattish on an organic basis.

It was impacted by the ramp-down of the Mexico Tren Maya contract, which was not fully offset by ramp-ups in the Philippines and Taiwan. We expect this trend to continue through the rest of the year.

Looking at inorganic items, foreign exchange was a 3.3 headwind, driven by the euro appreciation against most currencies. To be noted, the same euro appreciation is also expected to have a mildly negative impact on margin and cash for the full year.

Scope had a negative 80 bps impact due to the deconsolidation of the North American signaling business in the first semester last year. Scope was neutral in Q3.

On a reported basis, sales therefore increased by 3% during the first nine months of the fiscal year. Concluding with slide eight on the outlook, the set of assumptions behind the outlook here has not changed compared to mid-November when we reported first half results.

We assume R&D at around 3% of sales, which is slightly higher than the last fiscal year and the first half year of this year. Regarding tariffs, there is no change either.

We remain well protected, largely thanks to the group's multi-local footprint, with several manufacturing sites in the United States. Now turning to the outlook, based on the commercial momentum to date, we will deliver a book-to-bill above one at group level, as well as for rolling stock for the full year.

We confirm the organic sales are expected to grow by more than 5% for the full year. We reiterate guidance of an adjusted EBIT margin around 7% for the fiscal year, with currency expected to be a bigger headwind than we anticipated back in May last year.

Finally, we confirm the free cash flow outlook of 200 to 400 million euros. We are not narrowing the guidance range.

The exact timing of some commercial opportunities and operational milestones will determine where we land and whether certain cash-ins fall into Q4 or next fiscal year. With this, I will now take your questions.

Operator

Thank you very much, Mr. Delpit.

Ladies and gentlemen, as a reminder for questions, please press star 1 and just make sure that your lines are not muted in order to let your signal reach our equipment. Our very first question today will be coming from Mr.

Gaël de Bray of Deutsche Bank. Please go ahead.

Oh,

Gaël de Bray

thanks very much. I have two questions, please.

Good evening, maybe to start with. The first question is related to these two additional orders you got from SNCF for Avelia trains this quarter.

I was wondering if we can infer from these announcements that the TGV M is now fully back on track in terms of quality and in terms of ramp-up. That's question number one.

Bernard Delpit

Okay. Hi Gaël, thank you for your question.

There is absolutely no change as of today to what was previously said in terms of timeline for the homologation, and I will let SNCF make any announcement on the revenue service start. No change from our point of view.

Gaël de Bray

Understood. The second question is on the order dynamics.

Obviously they've been super strong this quarter, but I'd say more generally that's been the case over the past couple of quarters. Is there any risk that you had so many orders falling this quarter that eventually we get a bit of a air pocket for orders in the next few quarters?

Bernard Delpit

Fair question, and frankly no air pocket ahead. We have good visibility on orders for the next quarters, I would say, with, of course, some uncertainty on the timing of the booking and then the timing of some down payment collection.

For instance, we have the regional trains for CP in Portugal that now has been on the back burner for quite a while. We have several opportunities for which customers have already made some announcements.

Just to illustrate that, the turnkey project in Belgrade, the Virgin project for very high-speed for the Channel, we see some commercial new flow, possibly in the AMECA region. We have good visibility.

I do not expect an air pocket, even if for sure not every year will be as strong as this fiscal year.

Gaël de Bray

Thank you very much.

Bernard Delpit

You're welcome.

Operator

Thank you very much, sir. Sorry to interrupt.

Our next question will be coming from Akash Gupta, coming from JPMorgan. Please go ahead.

Akash Gupta

Hi, Bernard, thanks for your time. I have two questions as well.

My first question is on working capital. You gave this 200 to 400 million free cash flow guidance months ago when visibility on several working capital line items was low.

Maybe if you can talk about how in the course of the year these assumptions have changed, and based on nine months' progress and the outlook for the remaining couple of months, what do you expect in your latest plan versus original plans? Or in other words, what I want to know is that which line items could be better than expected and which line items there may be some uncertainty versus original plan?

That's number one. Number two is on a question on non-operating expense.

You are guiding for above 100 million because you are considering option for Belgian site. When we look at your backlog at various sites, is this one is kind of a one-off, or there can be future need for adaptation in other sites that can lead to these non-operating expense can be above 100 million in coming years as well?

Thank you.

Bernard Delpit

Thank you, Akash. Let me rephrase your question to be sure to check that I get them right.

First on working capital. In fact, it goes as we thought since the very beginning of the year.

On the one hand, the outstanding commercial momentum was anticipated, hence we thought that the down payments would be back-end loaded. We have visibility on that.

Down payments in H2 should be higher than in H1. It goes as planned, nothing has changed, but it's still back-end loaded as we anticipated since the beginning of the year.

On the other hand, it's true that we have a higher share of options in the order intake. When you are considering the record level of order intake, you need to keep that in mind when making your assumptions in terms of cash-in.

We have several orders that are booked in H2 but with no down payments, but rather what I would call installments of a few quarters. That's also to be considered in the working capital dynamics.

We have also some projects that are still awaiting homologation milestones. I will not discuss again the TGV, this one will come next fiscal year, but we have also some projects that are still in the homologation phase.

It could fall either in Q4 or next year. Therefore, the guidance is unchanged.

We keep the range as it is. I consider it's already a very narrow range in terms of lending per cash, as we are managing billions of cash-in and cash-out every month.

I'm not narrowing the guidance, as I said. I think because it goes as planned since the very beginning of the year.

Does it answer your question, Akash, on working capital?

Akash Gupta

It does, but maybe some color on, when we look at the level of contract assets, what's your thinking now versus the start of the year? Do you think you are still on track, or will there be more?

Overall working capital is fine with your plan, but I was asking more on the different line items. Will there be any change versus your original anticipation at the start of the year?

Bernard Delpit

Frankly, it's difficult for me to go into the detail of the balance sheet at the end of Q3, I will not elaborate on that. We see very much this year, with working capital, as a headwind to cash generation.

Contract working capital could be a tailwind in H2 versus what you have seen in H1. That's all I can say at that stage of the year.

Now, your second question was on non-operational expenses, was it, Akash?

Akash Gupta

You guided for more than 100 million this year because you are considering options for Belgian site. I wanted to ask when we look at the other sites, is this one-off, or could this non-operating expense maybe above 100 million in the coming years as well?

Bernard Delpit

Yeah. By definition, all non-operational expenses are one-offs.

For the moment, we are just considering some right-sizing of the Bruges site. We are contemplating different scenarios for the future of the site.

Let's say it's our view as we speak today. By the way, we have some other sites in terms of engineering, and I will not detail the geographies where we are also thinking of some restructuring.

I was just mentioning that because, as previously, I guided for 100 million NOE. It could be north of NOE.

You could maybe take 150 million in your model if it helps you.

Akash Gupta

Thank you.

Bernard Delpit

You're welcome.

Operator

Thank you very much for your question, sir. We will now go to Vlad Sergievskiy.

Please go ahead. Your line is open, sir.

Vladimir Sergievskiy

Yes, good afternoon. Thank you very much for taking my question.

I'll try to ask on free cash flow guidance as well. To deliver the second half cash flow that you are aiming for, you would require significant positive working capital contribution.

Can I ask, outside of the arguably higher prepayments or contract liabilities, are there any other working capital lines that could contribute meaningful positive number? Or will we be talking predominantly about contract liabilities here?

My second question related to cash flow is on the dividends from Chinese JVs. Do you expect any cash flow contribution from these dividends in the second half of this year?

I can see previously sometimes you got these dividends in the second half and sometimes you didn't. Any plans for this year would be very helpful.

Thank you very much.

Bernard Delpit

I will start with the second one. It's unbalanced between H1 and H2 in terms of dividends.

This year would be strong in terms of contribution of the JVs, but in terms of dividends, yes indeed it's pretty unbalanced between H1 and H2. I expect H2 to be below H1 this year.

Now in terms of free contract working cap, I see down payment as a driver for contract liabilities, but also we'll see, but it will depend again on homologation timing, some contract asset moves as well. Beyond those two points, nothing really to mention here.

Vladimir Sergievskiy

Thanks very much.

Operator

Thank you very much, sir. Next question this evening will be coming from Mademoiselle, or I should say Miss Delphine Brault, of ODDO BHF.

Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Delphine Brault (Co-Deputy of Equity Research and Equity Analyst of Capital Goods, ODDO BHF):

Delphine Brault

Yes, good evening. Thanks for taking my questions.

I have two. First, I refer to Germany.

Can you update us a little bit on your strategy there? Where are you in terms of efficiency improvement?

Because, well, you mentioned production ramp-up and you continue to sign orders. Any inflection as compared to what you told us a few months ago?

Second question, it seems that CAF, your Spanish competitor, may consider or be advised to consider your participation to the contract you lost recently against them. What is your view on this potential offer?

Bernard Delpit

Delphine, Mademoiselle Delphine. On Germany, no change.

No change in our strategy. We continue to adapt our footprint to the demand and to what we consider will be a normal and average level of business in Germany.

No change here. The total PC, the production of cars this year will increase a lot.

That will help to reduce the under absorption of fixed costs in Germany. That goes in the right direction.

It's only one step. There are continuous steps in order to turn around the business here in Germany.

It goes in the right direction. It's not because we have been awarded new contracts that we will change our strategy, because we need again to reshuffle our capacities there and to turn the business with more services as the installed fleet will continue to grow.

In terms of, I would say, car production, assembly line, we stick to the plan. We are happy because the Görlitz plant now is ready to be handed over to KNDS.

That's done. That's well executed.

We continue to discuss with unions on the future of different sites. No change in the policy.

We are very happy with new awarded contracts, but it doesn't change our view of the need to restructure our business in Germany. Now for CAF, I haven't received any call from our partner.

We know them well. If they are interested in Bruges, happy to discuss.

Delphine Brault (Co-Deputy of Equity Research and Equity Analyst of Capital Goods, ODDO BHF):

Delphine Brault

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you very much, Bernard. Next question is coming from Daniela Costa of Goldman Sachs.

Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Daniela Costa

Hi, good afternoon. Thank you for taking my questions.

I have two. On the first one, I just wanted to check.

This year, I think you said the share of ramp-ups that were in terms of what you were executing was higher than last year. Given we see this big order intake in this quarter and recently, do you expect the profile to continue to be more skewed to ramp-ups also looking into the next year?

That's the first question. I'll ask the second after this.

Bernard Delpit

I will not start to discuss next year, Daniela. I will limit myself to give you one number: the ramp-up projects that represented, I would say, something like 10% of the total cars that we produced last year.

It will be 20% this year. That's a change.

When you consider that we will end the year at the same level as last year, the effort to get there is much greater, because the ramp-ups are, by definition, more challenging projects. For next year, let's wait the guidance in May to discuss it.

Daniela Costa

Sure. My second question, maybe you won't reply given it relates to the next few years, but I guess in the past I often used to have a slide at some capital markets days where you had how much of the backlog was covering already the next few years.

If we look at how big the backlog is now, can you walk us through which visibility it is giving you, how much is covered next year, the year after, like you used to do in the past?

Bernard Delpit

I'm not sure I get that. That our, I would say, usual long-term guidance is to have a book-to-bill above one.

It will not change. This year, yes, it's very good, but frankly, it doesn't change our long-term view on our policy to continue to grow and to change the mix, which is an important part of our strategy.

I'm sure you noticed that the share of bundled deals is pretty strong, which goes in the right direction. We'll come back to you with more figures at the end of the year to see how much of next year's program is already covered by the existing backlog.

I guess that the vast majority of what we will have to produce and deliver next year is already booked by definition.

Daniela Costa

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you for your questions. We'll now go to Lucas Ferhani of Jefferies.

Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Lucas Ferhani

Thanks for taking the time. I have two questions as well.

Maybe the first one, it was a very helpful comment on the selectivity, the margin and the backlog. I guess just to be more precise, if we were to show that slide on the backlog and the gross margin development, I think it reached kind of 18% in H1.

Obviously the mix of rolling stock is quite heavy this time, but do you think it would continue to go up sequentially? That would be the first one.

Bernard Delpit

The answer is yes.

Lucas Ferhani

Perfect, thank you. The second one would be on restructuring.

I think you mentioned you're still looking at restructuring in other geographies potentially. Just wondering where do you think maybe the balance of demand capacity is still not right?

Where would you look at making changes? Well,

Bernard Delpit

frankly, what we've seen into this year is really helping in terms of balancing capacity and activity, because where we could have faced some overcapacity was in the U.S. As the orders were very strong this year, now we do not foresee potential restructuring or overcapacity in this country.

I would say the same thing in Mexico. We are at the end of the deliveries of the Tren Maya project, and now we have a new one in Mexico.

I would say that the granularity of our order intake this year fits well with where we have capacities. No specific geographies, except the one I mentioned already in Europe, both in Germany and maybe in Belgium, where we are thinking of the different options because of the decision of SNCB.

Lucas Ferhani

Very clear. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you for the questions, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, as a reminder, if you have any questions or follow-up questions, please press star 1 at this time.

We'll now go to Martin Wilkie calling from Citi. Please go ahead.

Your line is open, sir.

Martin Wilkie

Thank you. Good evening.

It's Martin from Citi. The question I had was on raw material inflation.

You mentioned earlier that you were well protected on tariffs, but also we have seen some metal prices creep up at the end of last year, particularly copper and so forth. I know in the past you've talked about indexation and other ways that you are protected from that.

Given how quickly those prices have come up in the end of 2025, are you comfortable that you're protected from any rise in both aluminum and copper in terms of what you're producing over the next two or three years? Thank you.

Bernard Delpit

Hi, Martin. Nothing really specific to report here.

We have contracts. We think we are protected both in terms of cost, on the cost side, with some long-term contracts for some raw materials, and also on the selling price side with escalation clauses.

We think we are pretty well protected, and I have not been reported that we have any specific issues on some specific raw materials items.

Martin Wilkie

Great. Thank you very much.

That was it. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you, sir. Next question coming from Louis Bilan of AlphaValue.

Please go ahead, sir.

Louis Bilan

Hi, good evening. Thank you for taking my questions.

My first question is about signaling. The forex impact in signaling is quite high, but you have mentioned that the execution was solid in Italy and in France.

From which country is the impact of forex? Should we not...

what is the situation in Germany for signaling, and why you haven't mentioned it in the solid execution?

Bernard Delpit

In fact, yes, we are growing our signaling business in Germany, but maybe not as much as we hoped because it takes time for the local operator to award some contracts in signaling. It takes more time than what we expected.

I don't know exactly what you were mentioning in terms of scope. That last year we exited the conventional signaling business in the U.S.

That's why we have this negative scope impact, and it has to be taken into account when looking at the signaling evolution, but nothing really specific to report. Indeed, good execution in Italy, in the U.K., in France, and it's ramping up in Germany, but not at the pace that we expected.

Louis Bilan

My question was about the forex impact, not the scope impact. Yeah.

Maybe also...

Bernard Delpit

Please.

Louis Bilan

Also on the Deutsche Bahn new CEO, I understand that from your peers that Deutsche Bahn was a bottleneck, and do you think with a new CEO, it could help your business in Germany?

Bernard Delpit

Frankly, no views from me on any specific question on the new CEO of GB. On FX, nothing really to mention.

Most of our signaling business is in Europe, by the way, not really a lot of FX, but in the U.K., where we have a large signaling business. Yes, indeed, there is a FX impact.

For signaling, we are 4% up on reported terms on the first nine months. That's 13% organic growth.

It's moving definitely in the right direction.

Louis Bilan

Maybe a last question, if I may. In the last earning call you mentioned that you were maybe thinking of increasing the guidance, and you haven't.

What was the reasons for not upgrading the guidance, and is it related to the postponement of the ICE train with the Avelia platform?

Bernard Delpit

Not really. Yes, indeed, and that's what I think I said just before.

Now the cash-in from TGV will mostly come starting next year. No, I said that we did not narrow the guidance because we have still some important milestones, both from a commercial point of view and operational point of view, in Q4.

Some uncertainty. That's why it was not the proper time to narrow the guidance.

That's it. Again, 200 million gap, the range is really something that for me is not material considering all the amounts of cash-in and cash-out that we manage every quarter.

Louis Bilan

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you, Mr. Bilan.

We now go to Jonathan Mounsey of BNP Paribas. Please go ahead.

Jonathan Mounsey

Hello everyone, thanks for seeing me, Bernard. A couple of questions.

First, it's really a housekeeping question. When I look at Bloomberg consensus, it has a positive dividend for 2026.

I was thinking more as if this was not the time to start reinstating the dividend. Maybe just a bit of clarification on that one.

Then as a second question, thinking more out into the latter years, obviously a couple of years ago you set the target, and I think the key target is the cumulative free cash flow, the 1.5 billion, or at least 1.5 billion, by 2027. Obviously in May we'll be less than a year away from that, and I just wonder, are you going to wait to deliver the free cash flow before thinking about what comes next?

Or with a year to go, can we maybe expect in May you may be thinking about new midterm targets, pushing out maybe to 2029 or 2030? I just want to get some expectations of how we'll be thinking about the company.

Usually the investment case extends beyond a year, maybe May is the time to start talking about the years that come after 2027. Thank you.

Bernard Delpit

Jonathan, thank you for those two questions that I will not answer, of course, because when it comes to dividend, it's not my decision, but it's going to be a board decision. The kind of framework we shared during the 2023-2024 deleveraging period.

We said that we would start to restore dividend once we get to net debt zero. I don't think we'll be there at the end of this fiscal year, maybe the next one.

I think we'll answer to your question, which is a fair one, in due time. Then for free cash flow guidance in the midterm, please wait for Martin Sion to join the company and to make his mind.

The commitment is 1.5 billion, and I reiterated it tonight. Let's do it, and we'll see what we will do in terms of midterm guidance in May.

Jonathan Mounsey

Thank you.

Bernard Delpit

You're welcome. I think we are done for tonight.

Thank you very much for your time. Thank you for your questions, and looking forward meeting you in the next weeks and for the next call in May with Martin Sion.

Bye.

Operator

Thank you very much, Mr. Delpit.

Ladies and gentlemen, that will conclude today's conference. Thank you for your attendance.

You may now disconnect. Have a good day and goodbye.