Martin Fischer
Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to our 2025 results call and the CMD, together with our CFO, Olivier Durand.
We are glad to receive you, and many thanks to those of you who took the chance and came to our headquarters here in Nanterre. It's obviously lovely with you as an audience here.
Thank you for that. When I started last year, I gave a commitment, right?
I said we are going to do a Capital Markets Day within my first year. We are coming to the end of that first year at the helm of FORVIA, and I'm very glad we chose that timing for the day.
It allows us to, first of all, discuss our 2025 results, and I think it is important for you to convince yourselves about the performance capability of the group. Any talk about strategy and future is going to be well grounded in that delivery in '25.
Let's start with the results. We will have first the highlights.
I'll give you that part of the presentation, then hand over to you, Olivier, for the financial results. I'll do the 2026 guidance after that, and then we go into the first session for Q&A, so that's your part.
Then we are going to move on also for the CMD. The year started with setting three priorities for ourselves, and I believe you, the financial community, know them as much as everybody in FORVIA right now.
It's about performance, and this is increasing OI and cash flow, helping the organic deleveraging. Then we're going to talk a lot today about our portfolio during the CMD and how we want to sharpen and focus that.
We're also going to talk under transformation about our intended interiors divestiture. Decisions we are taking on the portfolio has financial implications that we are going to talk about.
Last not least, culture. It's about our operating model that we push into a new league.
We are going for empowerment and accountability of our troops, and this has been showing already through a refreshed organization and new leadership principles that we have been introducing. Last not least, we informed about Simplify in mid of last year.
That program now is in full swing. Let's look into our numbers.
Very good news. All 2025 numbers are in line or above the guidance that we had shared with you.
We have flat organic sales at €27 billion when you look at constant forex, and it was, in fact, €26.2 billion at the actuals. Operating margin is up 40 basis points, we have delivered 5.6%, and one has to qualify that because that happened all with quite a bit of headwinds in the market.
Tariffs that occurred last year, we compensated for them. Electronic shortages from Nexperia now in the DRAM that happened, we compensated for that.
Our first year was really characterized by a strong effort of all the global teams to offset headwinds and to deliver beyond. We have initiatives in place that help that, too.
EU-Forward, we are now at 6,400 agreed departures for 2025, pretty much two-thirds into the whole program where we envisage 10,000 departures by the year 2028. You can see how we frontload that.
Cash flow plus 47% versus 2024, €962 million, and all that as a much better quality. Olivier is going to report out on that, less of an impact from working capital, but really fundamental savings and CapEx approaches that helped this big increase in cash.
With that and the increased EBITDA, we are now at a leverage ratio of 1.7 times. Remember we guided 1.8 times, so that turned out better, and with that, we could also reduce our net debt further than anticipated.
We are now standing at round about €6 billion net debt, €600 million down from last year. I want to really emphasize this is organic deleveraging, and it's good to see that we go these 0.3 times in the right direction.
We are now very confident that in a given year, we can do 0.15, 0.2 times of organic deleveraging. I want to, first of all, thank the FORVIA teams for these results.
Thanks for having accepted me as a new CEO, and thanks we could run so fast together. That's really encouraging.
Let's get back to the portfolio. You will hear about how we structure the future, where our growth fields are, and the kind of portfolio rationalization that goes along with it and that transformation, including the interiors divestiture that we intend to do, leads to some impairments we had to do.
Non-cash impairments that hit the net result, through that, we are looking at a net loss of €2.1 billion. By no means am I easygoing about announcing that, but I'm equally confident that with that and the focus of our portfolio, we prepare for much better value creation in the future for FORVIA.
Lastly, our net loss that we incurred and our continued focus on deleveraging leads the board to a recommendation to the General Assembly that comes later this spring not to pay a dividend for the prior year. All in all, good operational performance, and you'll hear more about the non-cash effects we see in the net results.
Let's go order intake next. We have €27 billion plus of new orders taken in with lower upfront costs than in prior years.
I'm not completely satisfied with that level, and we are developing a very strong push and initiative for 2026 to bring the numbers higher again. At the same time, the structure is very important, the structure of the new orders, and it's very healthy in various regards.
You see from this chart that 34% of our new orders are coming from Asia, and 23% of the global orders from Chinese OEMs. Both numbers are above our current shares in business, you can understand how we grow in Asia and particularly, again, with the Chinese OEMs.
Actually, in China, we had a record order intake of €8 billion, and thereof 80% are with Chinese OEMs. We well track.
We've even advanced our trend to be strong with the Chinese OEMs in comparison to the play that the international OEMs have in China. Also, we picked up new customers in China.
We went beyond our strength with BYD, Chery, SAIC, and others. We have now booked business with Geely, with Luxeed, that's a premium brand between Chery and Huawei, and also we are now working with a new auto player coming from the tech field that is releasing vehicles and has chosen FORVIA as being a supply partner.
That's good. In the other field, that's the third graph here I want to stress, is our order intake in the electronics space.
So, 28% of orders come from electronics, also quite a bit ahead of our current sales levels. Here's a couple of really prime products that we will focus during the CMD: zonal modules, being one of them.
This defines the new architectures for future vehicles, and we took in orders more than €1 billion for that product. You'll hear about that in detail during the CMD.
Last, you know that Appland is spearheading our software technology and software efforts, those are the in-vehicle app stores we do. We could add more apps to that, YouTube and Zoom is now available for passengers in the vehicle through the FORVIA Appland app store and also won Chinese customers to use our technology there.
Technology and innovation, it is the core of FORVIA. We have technology leadership, and that drives our growth.
Therefore, I'm very happy to share another couple of examples of businesses that we took in this year and that we industrialize and bring to market. We have significant wins in the area of the software-defined vehicle, again, that zonal module that you'll hear about it.
It's a really attractive piece of business because it starts from a proprietary chip design that FORVIA HELLA has developed, and then it integrates with the hardware and the software on top. We're going to see start of production in 2028 for that.
If you go to the comfort and safety space, lighting has brought up a new product, highly interesting. We call that FlatLight.
All the little signal lights in a headlamp or tail lamp for daytime running lights or the turn indicator. Used to be some LED modules of a certain depth.
For our FlatLight, we now use micro-optics, and we could reduce the size significantly. What used to be a 40 little lamp is now 5 thick only.
We save 80% of weight and 40% of the energy through that technology. That's a world first from FORVIA HELLA, and that creates a very nice revenue pool for us go forward.
On the seating side, here we'll have a deep dive to that already, we have launched a Zen massage seat. What is that?
For the Asian taste, the typical European pneumatic massage is a little soft, and we have developed a mechanical massage. The important and impressive piece of news is we introduced that first time in the Shanghai Auto Show last April, and we are now launching the product.
From a concept and a demonstrator to SOP, that's moving in 1 year only. China sets the pace, and FORVIA is ready to work to that pace.
Last not least, clean mobility is also moving on technologically. The ICE, the internal combustion engines, has a prolonged lifetime.
You'll see that particularly in North America, but there's also technological evolution we are driving. In particular, when it comes to hybrid vehicles and range extenders, there are special requirements to the exhaust systems.
They have to be pretty compact, of course, with the batteries and the range extender vehicle. There's only so much space in the vehicle, we work towards that.
Secondly, these exhausts have to be super silencing. If you happen to drive a hybrid vehicle, it can be annoying when you go from electric mode into combustion mode.
You hear that, right? We want to dampen down all the noise and vibrations from the exhaust as much as possible.
You see technology all over the brand, and the good thing is with those products you see here, it's always high-growth and high-margin profit pools that we open up through world's first and really innovative technology. A word on interiors.
It's part of the transformation, and we have made a very clear decision that we want to divest from the interiors business. Current progress is that we are in advanced negotiations with several parties on the divestiture of that business.
The business is very solid. It's a €4.8 billion business.
We have about 60 plants. We have 31,000 people, and we have a world-leading position in that business.
Why sell? Basically, at the same time, the business is fairly capital-intensive.
It's not growing so much, and it's a mature market and fragmented and in a consolidatory phase. Therefore, we came to the decision that there must be better and more dedicated ownership to lead that business into the future, while FORVIA can focus on our high-tech growth fields.
Plus, it's obvious, a divestiture brings us new financial flexibility and helps us bring the net debt down. More financial details on that and on the results from Olivier.
I hand over to you, Olivier. Thank you, Martin, and
Olivier Durand
good morning, everyone. In the next few minutes, I will give more details on the financial results of '25.
Let me start with an accounting consequence of the advanced status of the interior transaction that Martin just mentioned. We are applying the IFRS 5 accounting ruling, meaning that you should present, in fact, your results pro forma of the asset of interior.
Inside the financial reports that you have typically in this room, you will see '24 and '25 after IFRS 5. All operating metrics, sales, margin, cash flow, will be, in fact, without interiors, and everything reported in one line of the P&L and of the net debt evolution.
However, for the clarity of the presentation of the '25 results on the current perimeter on which we are, we present all the numbers before, so that you can compare apple to apple. What is the net income?
Because there is only one net income, and I will come to this one. And '26 will be on the new perimeter, and the outlook that Martin will share will be on the new perimeter with the comparison of '25 after the sale on a pro forma basis.
One more thing is that the financial reports that we are publishing for the transparency, for the clarity for all of us is providing P&L, balance sheet, cash flow before and after the IFRS 5 for both '24 and '25. I hope it will help everyone to see the impact of that on all the metrics.
On this note, let me go through the detail financials. As Martin mentioned, flat revenues year-on-year on an organic basis.
That the forex is, in fact, having a negative impact with the depreciation of the US dollar and the RMB. This has been the case most of the year, and you see the impact inside those numbers, for €845 million.
Let me highlight that forex have, in fact, no impact on the operating margin basically. We buy and we sell in the same currencies in the big geographies in which we operate: Europe, North America.
Now, from an organic flat perspective, let me highlight that product sales actually increase. We had tooling revenues decreasing from the very high level of '24.
In fact, from a production comparison, the product sales is 1.5% increase. If I zoom by business groups, you have electronics, which is a major gross engine.
We increase by 12% year-on-year on this segment. We have clean mobility rebounding in the second half.
This is both the evolution in some of the geographies, as but there is also the gain of market share that we have enjoyed in Europe. Commercial vehicle is also rebounding.
Now, on the negative side, you have clearly seating evolution. Seating is, in fact, currently penalized by the mix between Chinese OEM.
That we enjoy a strong position with BYD, and we are happy with that. Clearly, in the mix of last year, Geely has been growing faster, and we are less present with Geely.
We have the continuation of diversification in terms of between the Chinese OEM. Martin mentioned the level of orders that we have with Chinese OEM, and you know in China things can go fast.
We have currently less favorable mix in Shen Evolve [ph]. The last element I would say on profitability-wise, the China is still enjoying a double-digit operating margin thanks to their cost action.
Last but not least, lighting, you have an aspect of repositioning that is ongoing and the end of production of some programs not matched by new ones. For those that have followed HELLA yesterday, this is driving the evolution of HELLA.
The mix by geographies, Martin mentioned quite a bit about China, which is the mix between, in fact, BYD and Geely, on one side, that are strong customers for us that have, in fact, had a reduction of production in the second half. We have strong momentum with Chery, and we have progressively a growing presence with Geely, but from a low base.
On the other geographies, Europe and North America, 70% of our revenues are along the market, and we have outperformance in South America and even more important in the rest of Asia, which is one geography, in fact, in which we have a lower presence and penetration than the rest of the world, but we will talk about how to expand in this region during the CMD part of the presentation. From a profitability standpoint, we have an improvement of the margin by 40 bps.
This is coming from cost reductions. You see the evolution, €273 million of cost reduction flowing to the P&L in '25.
This is mostly about the EU-Forward action that we launched beginning of '24, on which the progress is quite fast. This is also HELLA, another €63 million for a total since the start of €400 million, and other actions, as well as, in fact, the launch of the Simplify project, which we launched during the summer of last year, which is about having overheads in SG&A and in operations at the benchmark of the competition by '28, which is also starting to contribute.
Solid evolution in operating margin. All business groups except lighting have contributed to this evolution.
The main elements: electronics, 140 basic points; seating, even with a lower level of sales given China, has been able to increase by 70 basic points; and you see also that clean mobility continue, in fact, to progress, and I would say the life and the value of clean mobility, given the evolution of electrification, is only actually confirmed. The lighting, this is, in fact, the main item that we have to turn around after the sale of interior, that will be, in fact, the sole one to look after really from this standpoint.
Cash flow. We are at close to €1 billion of net cash flow in '25.
This is 47% increase year-on-year. This is also not only an improvement in quantity, but in quality.
The driver is control of investment. We have reduced investment from 7.5% to 6% of the revenues, talking about CapEx and capitalized R&D, and this means €400 million reduction year-on-year, actually €600 million in 2 years.
You see in the graph that we are showing what we try to call the recurring net cash flow. To explain what it is, it is the net cash flow with the exclusion of two lines: the financial expenses, which is not repetitive per se, as we all know; and what is inside the line others, which are more one-off elements that are not future.
You see that we have now a net cash flow that is dominantly on recurring aspect, coming from increase of EBITDA thanks to the increase in operating margin and the reduction of the investment. This is done with still a high level of financial charges and restructuring.
It's a good evolution. We took the opportunity to reduce the factoring inside these numbers.
You see that we are going from 1.3 to €1.2 billion, and I think everybody should take that as a sign of confidence and good evolution. Also that rating agencies are treating this as debt, I think it's important also to our debt investors.
If you look in the details of the numbers, you see that we have financial charges starting to decrease, €46 million. This is with the evolution of the net debt, even with the evolution of interest rates.
You have, in fact, an evolution which is slightly negative on tax, nothing structural. It's withholding tax refund on dividends from HELLA, which are depending on HELLA itself, nothing particular.
We will come back in '26 about the restructuring because the restructuring, from a P&L standpoint, is peaking in '25, but from a cash perspective, will peak in '26, the evolution is mainly driven by the evolution of implementation of our actions, EU-Forward and Simplify, which increase the restructuring cash out by €100 million year-on-year. In short, close to €1 billion of net cash flow in '25.
Coming back to the interior divestiture, maybe additional color of what it means for the profile of the company. It means a more focused portfolio, a simpler organization.
This is clean product revenues, we are showing you '24 and '25 before and after the pro forma presentation of interior being out. You see that interior being dilutive, it represents, in fact, an improvement of the quality of the company from 5.6% to 6% for the '25 results, and, actually, it will also below the line in terms of restructuring costs, in terms of also dividend to joint ventures, because this includes two joint ventures, mainly in China.
From a debt perspective, it will lead to a further reduction of the net debt by €1 billion. Let me say a few things about those items, which are clearly questions.
The transaction is a very sizable and a major change of scope for the company. Inside this debt reduction, we have included all the expected impact of the transaction: in terms of debt adjustment, working capital, pension; in terms, in a way, of leakage coming from joint ventures.
When you sell a joint venture in which there is cash, you sell the 50% or the 60% you have, but you deconsolidate the totality of the cash position. Here, we are taking the full impact.
This is also something that has led to sizable carve-out and separation and tax costs in order to have the perimeter in position to be transferable. I would say that in order to assess what is the impact on the financials of the company, the real number you should look at is the gross debt reduction, the €1.4 billion, because this is representing, in fact, what is changing in terms of future financial costs.
Why is that? We will have, in fact, less joint ventures, simplification in terms of cash operation.
We believe that, in fact, with this, we are able not only to reduce the net debt, but also to reduce the gross debt and, therefore, the financial costs associated. On the P&L, as Martin mentioned, we will have in '25 a net loss of €2.1 billion.
This is driven, in fact, by extraordinary non-cash related charges coming from the portfolio transformation and rationalization. We have €1.8 billion one-off charges, and they are all non-cash.
The first item is we have done the annual impairment test as a following, in fact, the strategic review that has been done. This is leading to two impairments for a total of €920 million: the related to Clarion for close to €600 million; the other related to lighting for €270 million.
Clarion is about competitiveness, is about revisiting the portfolio; lighting, it's about, in fact, the evolution of the activity from a short-term perspective and, in fact, the timing for the turnaround. The second category of one-off aspect is capital loss on the transaction for €578 million.
Let me highlight that there will be an additional €150 million charge in '26 related to this transaction, which will be the cost at the closing itself. This is captured in our evaluation of net debt reduction of €1 billion, let's be clear, but from an accounting perspective, it can be booked only in '26.
We have the asset depreciation on Symbio, which is related to the joint venture and all the consequences, which is mainly what you saw P&L-wise in H1, and the deferred tax asset reassessment, which is related to the impairment. Really driven by the portfolio adjustment and the decision taken on that.
Now on the debt maturity profile, as we have been quite active on the debt market in '25 and, let me say, also in '24. In 2 years, we have, in fact, refinanced more than half of the debt of the company, of which €2.7 billion in '25, and we have repaid €3.4 billion.
As important as what we did in terms of activity is we have diversified our sources of funding. Of course, we are in the Eurobond market.
Of course, we are in the Schuldschein market, but we have done a Samurai, we have done a Chinese bank loan, and the most important of all is that we entered with two operations on the US bond market, which is by far the biggest high-yield market that we have worldwide. We have access, and we have presence in all the major source of financing, which is good from a diversified profile.
The consequence of what we did is graphically evident. We have smoothed the profile heavily.
You see, for instance, '27 divided by two. For the first time since the acquisition, we have a maturity profile that is balanced.
Not only we are reducing the debt, we are reducing the gross debt, but as important, we are derisking the position and make the company stronger in terms of debt management. This will be further accelerated, of course, by the proceeds of interior that will be directly in reduction of the debt.
From a leverage ratio, this is what we mentioned before, reduction of the debt by €600 million, leverage improved from two times to 1.7 times. Actually, we have done upstreaming of cash in different jurisdictions so that the reduction in gross debt is actually €900 million.
On this one, we have a clear plan. We did some of it in '25.
We have more to do in '26, you can expect the reduction of the gross cash by a further €500 million in '26, helping the reduction of financial costs, which is, in fact, the objective throughout our plan. On this note, I revert to Martin.
Martin Fischer
Olivier, thank you. Let's look ahead.
Let's look forward into 2026. Here is the guidance.
Let's start with the market first. The auto production forecast is flat to slightly negative compared to 2025, and we expect to experience some decline in markets that are important for us, such as China, North America, but also in Europe.
We are going to a soft year in terms of sales, where, in particular, in the first quarters, we will see an unfavorable mix in Europe and in China. However, we have new launches in the make, H2 in China, new business goes online, and the rest of Asia remains for us as a very good and at a strong momentum.
What does that mean for running FORVIA into this year? We keep to the same priorities and to the same discipline, right?
It's about good cost control. We're going to continue the drive in EU-Forward and Simplify, and that is going to pay into the results of 2026.
When we take that together, we will continue on our route to organic deleveraging, and then as Olivier explained in good detail, the interiors divestiture will do its part to our net debt and then also to the leverage. Here's the numbers that we guide for in 2026.
Reminder, all that is now according to IFRS 5. Sales between €20.5 and €21.5 billion, again at a constant exchange rate.
The operating margin is going to be in the range between 6% and 6.5%, and we expect net cash flow to be at least 3% of sales. With that, we will reach a leverage ratio at 1.5 times of EBITDA.
When we do the strict comparison to our projection from last year where we said we will be below 1.5 times, we missed by a tad, and that's basically due to the forex development. Earnings from North America, earnings from China are not translating into the same EBIT in Europe, and that holds us back from that.
We target 1.5 times strictly this year. I believe you see how these numbers also in 2026 lay a very strong foundation for what's going to be our strategic plan.
The CMD is coming up on the agenda, but in between, there's a very important agenda item as well, and that's Q&A. With that one, I would like to hand over to you and looking forward to having your questions.
One little request, please focus on 2025-2026. I know you'll have many more questions for the strategy, but let's keep that for the second session.
Operator
Thank you very much. Questions from the room, please raise your hand for a microphone, and when you speak, kindly introduce yourself with your name and company, and please limit yourself to a maximum of three questions.
For those joining remotely, your questions in the chat or via the conference call.
Thomas Besson
Thank you very much, Thomas Besson. Three questions please.
First, on 2026 sales, you're pitching a decline of 3% to 4% organic growth versus flat production in '26. Is there something extraordinary happening in '27-'28 to lift the organic growth in average above 2%?
Maybe it's not the right time to ask this question, as you said, but I find it surprising. Or maybe you can explain just why 2026 organic growth is so weak.
Second question, I remember Clarion being, at least in the way it was presented before, as being part of electronics. Now you're separating it again from electronics.
You do a big write-down on these assets. Retrospectively, it wasn't great.
Is there a lot more to write down on Clarion? Why do that?
Is there a plan to eventually completely get rid of Clarion? That's the second question.
The third one, on one of the drivers of 2025 cash beat, could you just talk about CapEx and tangible and intangible CapEx in '26 and eventually after that, when you've cut that to below 6% of sales? What is a reasonable level, and is it going to be a headwind for free cash flow in '26 and beyond?
Can you talk about what's going to happen to capitalized R&D as well, because it's been a headwind to your profitability in '25? Thank you very much.
Thank you
Martin Fischer
very much. It's a bit of a tradition you having the first questions, let's go through them one by one.
Let's start with that organic growth going into 2026. What holds us back is a bit the customer mix, and that's both true for Europe where we are weaker with Volkswagen than anticipated, and in China, we have that unfavorable mix in H1 from basically our BYD engagement.
At the same time, as I said, we are going to rebound with new launches, and, yes, you mentioned the 2% growth. That's what we anticipate for the period of our strategic plan.
We're going to talk about it, but we see clearly that recovery for the outer years of that three-year period that you are referring to. Question number two, that really qualifies for the CMD, what's happening with Clarion.
You look at it in two ways. We're going to get that back to that.
Basically, it's part of the portfolio separation that you'll hear later. There's good reasoning about it.
Olivier, why don't you give a couple of comments on what's happening there in terms of the impairments,
Olivier Durand
the numbers? All those impairments are non-cash, as you see.
The exercise that we are doing is, of course, to evaluate what is the value compared to what we have in the balance sheet. We have tried to do it in a prudent manner because the idea is to have one-shot items in '25, but not in the future.
This is true for Clarion and for lighting. Now, strictly speaking, mechanically, you have no headroom by definition, but we have tried to take prudent assumptions, and I would say what we are showing also in terms of metrics going forward should be an indication in this respect.
Martin Fischer
All right, and I'm picking up the third question. How is it going with CapEx and capitalized R&D?
You see extremely good values for 2025. That had to do with, yeah, real work on CapEx, and you'll hear later more about the approaches we are taking, but it also had to do with delay of some of the programs.
It's a twofold effect. One is sustainable, the other one with the delayed projects was specific to 2025.
Guidance is to keep the combination of capital expenditure and capitalized R&D below 7% go forward. You remember we come from times 8% and 8.5%, clearly below 7% is the guidance there.
Olivier, you want to maybe comment also on the R&D effects?
Olivier Durand
Yes, when we talk about this clearly below 7% is CapEx and capitalized R&D, investment in total. Now, specifically on the capitalized R&D, I think the indicator that we are all following is what is the ratio of the R&D that is capitalized.
You see that it has decreased in '25, and I would say this is a ratio that should be equal or decreasing over time. I think, at the end of the day, what we want and true performance is cash, I think it's the way to go.
This is also why you see that the improvement in EBITDA year-on-year has been higher than the improvement in operating margin, which is a good thing. Not major changes, but probably the ratio should continue to go down a little bit.
Besides the ratio, you have seen the decrease in terms of R&D spending, which is around 10%. Let me comment that on this one, actually, is not reduced in innovation.
It's not about preventing the future. It's about quality of the costing.
It's about making sure that the projects are executed as defined at the time in terms of R&D spend.
Vanessa Jeffriess
Hello, Vanessa Jeffriess from Jefferies. You talked a little bit about the DRAM shortage before.
I was wondering if you could talk about the impact on margins in 2026.
Martin Fischer
That's a good question. The next semiconductor piece that gets in the way, right?
We do use DRAMs on the Clarion side and only in the Clarion business for the infotainment solutions. The way we go about it is shortages we go for replacement, and we can stabilize the supply to the customers.
Wherever we see price increases, that's probably the other part of your question, Vanessa, we proceed the same way as we have been very successfully last year around the tariffs, around Nexperia. We have to forward these cost burdens to our customers and do that in a very consequent manner.
Vanessa Jeffriess
Do you think that's something that will lead to a pronounced second-half split?
Martin Fischer
Say that again, please.
Vanessa Jeffriess
Of waiting, because of the delay in recovering? Recovering the cost, is what you mean?
Martin Fischer
Oh, are we going to see the recovery still in the year? You saw last year's cash performance, and we are always pushing reimbursements through our customers, and you could see from the cash numbers and the cash flow that we are successful in doing so.
Olivier Durand
Maybe a little bit of time lag, H1, H2, in terms of cash, but not for the year. The last thing about DRAM is that, strictly speaking, for us, it's a few tens of million of purchase.
Strictly speaking, the goal is to pass it, but the base is quite small.
Vanessa Jeffriess
Just with the delays in order intake you're seeing, do you expect that to continue throughout this year, as in shift every move lower each year?
Martin Fischer
No, I think it's well recovering in the market. The initial reaction of the OEMs last week last year when tariffs hit was to slow down also their new vehicle platforms, right?
Then in parts of the market in North America, that slowed down on electric vehicle platforms in particular. I think the market has successfully reoriented to what regulation and consumers want, we see a good pipeline of business coming in this year.
Fields like clean mobility, seating are benefiting from a restrengthening, in particular North America in that segment. No, we see strengthening of the numbers in 2026.
Then
Vanessa Jeffriess
maybe this question goes a bit towards the longer term, but if we see from the EU tomorrow some good local content, can you talk about the impact on your business?
Martin Fischer
For us as a global supplier, we play in all regions, right? Our principle is we want to be local for local, produce for our European OEMs in Europe.
That's the preferred way, and we fully support the direction that EU is hopefully going to take in terms of local content mandate. Yes, we are in a position that we can also supply from other parts of the world if the cost mandates that, but when you think through the whole supply chain structure, it's really imminent that we protect our Tier 2, 3, and 4 suppliers and keep that stable, and that's going to be enabled by local content rules.
I would say for a big Tier 1 like FORVIA, it is important. We want to produce here.
We have a social responsibility for that, but it's even more important for the smaller tier suppliers.
Operator
Thank you. Next person,
Michael Foundoukidis
please. Michael from Oddo.
A couple of questions. First one on the order intake.
You really mentioned it beyond the seating, organic growth was not that good specifically, but we see some of your peers, especially in the US, being more aggressive or at least more vocal about some recent wins, probably some of it at your expense. How do you see that in 2026 evolving?
That's the first question. On all the, let's say, impairments and one-offs that we had from some of your clients recently, there's the debate on the suppliers' compensation.
Are you entitled for some of them in 2026? Is it only cash, or it could be something else?
Then more generally regarding H1 versus H2, you just mentioned about DRAM, but is there something else like the LVP that you mentioned that might explain why H2 should be much stronger than H1 in terms of margin? Thank you.
Martin Fischer
All right, Olivier, I'm going to kick the H1, H2 sequence and question over to you, but let's go order intake first. As I mentioned, the €27 billion are strong in structure, but they are not to my full satisfaction.
We see a couple of businesses where I would say we got to beef it up and come stronger in 2026, and that's true for seating as well. Stay tuned on what we have to tell during the Capital Markets Day on the relevance of our seating business and how we drive growth.
That's coming in just a little bit. For the impairments, as we speak, the OEMs have obviously canceled electric vehicle platforms, and there is big supplier compensation coming potentially.
We are not so much exposed to these bigger cancellations. We have seen more volume degradations from the days of acquisition to what we deliver last year and deliver this year, but are not impacted so much by these cancellations.
Olivier, H1, H2?
Olivier Durand
Maybe just before a complement because I heard quite a few questions, relation in cash by customers and there is a question about how much is it inside the cash flow of '25. The DSOs that we have are, in fact, the same as the year before, we are getting claims, compensation.
We had the compensation of the tariff, but it's more the cost themselves, and so in terms of collection, I have not seen any particular evolution, and the numbers are not reflecting any. The cash flow of '25 is relevant from this standpoint.
Related to H1, H2 in '26, I would say on both margin and cash flow, you should expect that we have had in the past few years, not really no more no less. If I zoom on the cash flow, you know that we have certain items that are really more topics in H2 versus H1, a lot to tax.
You have annual tax returns. You pay the tax in the first half.
You have certain timings in different items. I would say H1, H2 '26, the seasonality should be along the average of the last few years.
Ross MacDonald
Hi there. Thank you for taking my question.
It's Ross MacDonald at Citi. Thanks for the presentation.
I have three questions. First one, sticking with the seasonality in in 2026, would you be able to confirm if on an operating margin basis you would expect the first half to be within the 6% to 6.5% corridor?
Maybe linked to that, on the free cash generation in 2026, how should we think about the the phasing, let's say, of the the cash out restructuring and the the sort of year-over-year on is is the free cash very strongly geared to the second half or do you see it quite balanced within the year? Obviously, the second question on tariffs, I know a lot has changed, and in many ways, it's very soon to be thinking about tariffs given the news over the weekend.
Just be interested how you're thinking about the the tariff risk. If you, if you hear any potential changes that could be benefit or on the tariff side, I appreciate it's very early days.
Then finally, just on the factoring, very good to see you're working on getting that down now, I think €100 million last year. Is the target to take that down further going forward, or how should we think about factoring in '26?
Thank you.
Martin Fischer
All right, Ross, thank you. I'll take the tariff question first, and then I'll kick the financial ones over to you, Olivier.
We're going to observe what's happening in the tariff world, right? The Supreme Court judgment is certainly there.
We're not quite sure yet what it really means, how they're going to be reimbursements, yes or no. It's important that in the last year we stayed free of financial impact from that, right?
That was really non-material, we are on the safe side with regard to possible reimbursements, yes or no. In terms of what's coming, are we going to go from 10% to 15% for all the world?
It's speculation. It's not ruled at this point in time.
We will stick to the same base principles that we discussed, and that means we will mitigate that effectively for FORVIA. Again, it starts with being local for local, good content in the various regions.
We work with this to strengthen that, and whatever exposure is left over, we will go see our customers and ask for compensation in a very strict manner.
Olivier Durand
On the financial questions related in particular to seasonality, we are giving a for the year, which is 6% to 6.5%. I will not give a guidance per se inside H1, but I would say that the goal automatically is to be in this range, but it will be on the low side.
You will have a seasonality comparable to previous years. The guidance is really on the full year, not strictly H1.
Related to cash flow, maybe first to explain a little what we expect on the net cash flow year-on-year before even the seasonality. The evolution that we expect is driven by two specific items.
One, I mentioned it, is the restructuring increase. This is the implementation of the actions that we have taken.
You see that in the P&L, and we expect to have an increase of restructuring cash outs throughout '26 of around €100 million. This is mainly in HELLA, and this is reflected, by the way, in the guidance that HELLA gave yesterday morning.
Let's say, it's to accelerate the rationalization. It's part of the EU-Forward.
It impacts, in fact, different parts of the business. This time is more HELLA.
The second thing on the evolution of the cash flow year-on-year is that we have specific one-offs that we expect to settle in terms of litigation that can play a little bit inside. Just cash flow year-on-year is not really on the structural item, but we are trying to capture the elements, let's say, in a prudent approach to make sure that the guidance is really the minimum that we shoot for.
Now, between H1 and H2, I think the seasonality should be similar, and you have a bit of working capital seasonality inside, but no more no less. On factoring, I will not commit on a further reduction.
I will say that we know perfectly that factoring is on the one side it's a sort of funding. It's a source, in some cases, of pressure to customer to pay, but it is also having a financial cost.
On the selective basis, why not? I will not give a commitment and let alone a trajectory on this one, but we have this in mind.
I think with '25, we wanted to show that we do.
Operator
One very last question.
José Asumendi
Good morning. It's José Asumendi on your left.
Olivier Durand
Jose.
José Asumendi
Good to see you. Thank you for the presentation.
Hello. Just a couple of questions, please.
On cost savings, can you comment on the planned cost savings for 2026? Can you give us some color by geography or product division, which divisions will benefit the most?
Then, Martin, can you talk a bit about the margin evolution by division in '26? Which divisions will drive the margin improvement, which ones will lag, but still improve year-on-year as we think about that margin range for the year?
Thank you.
Martin Fischer
Thanks, Jose. That's quite a few detailed questions digging into the business.
When it comes to cost savings, every business group is encouraged, right, to move forward, push forward, but then we also have our central initiatives, in particular EU-Forward and Simplify across that are going to push across the board. I would never tell you everybody is really working, and we'll do it in the same strict way as in 2025.
We have developed a completely new approach looking at our numbers, a new approach in terms of being thrifty, and we are going to continue that in a good way. As far as the margin ambitions are concerned, you see that we made good progress in 2025 for all business groups, but lighting.
Business groups that have shown good tendencies and trends in 2025 are going to continue, and we have a major repair to do on the lighting side. Happy to have the new CEO of HELLA here today.
One of his top priorities is to bring better performance back to our lighting team. We will see a year of not so good performance, and Peter said today to the market what that will be.
Operator
Thank you very much to everyone. This is all the time we have left.
We have another Q&A session afterwards. Moving on to next session.
Martin Fischer
Thank you very much, everyone, and again, questions after the CMD part. That's really arriving now.
It's time for the Capital Markets Day section. Clean the stage for that, and then we'll kick off with a brief video.
Be alert. It's a quick one.
Here we go. It is Ignite.
Ignite is our medium-term strategy and ambition, and you see the tagline: Drive what matters today to unlock what's next. You will see now a sequenced roadmap on how we get to long-term value creation.
I consider 2025 was our year zero of Ignite to lay out a first set of results that prove we can execute, we can transform FORVIA in a credible manner. Our Ignite strategy into two phases: 2025 to 2028, focus and strengthen the group, and lay a very solid foundation for the second phase, where we want to lead and grow.
Phase one is all about discipline and focus. We are going to streamline our portfolio, strengthen execution.
We are going to drive profit and cash generation, and that way, you saw we can deliver. A couple of initiatives that we already referred to this morning: EU-Forward is materializing, Simplify is now in execution, and you have seen the new investment discipline that we show to ourselves and to the market.
Last not least, also the intended divestiture of the interiors business is clearly pointing in that direction. Then for 2028, we have solid foundations financially.
We have a strong balance sheet, and we will have a very concentrated portfolio to enable growth. In this phase two, we want to lead and grow.
You will hear about what are the businesses we rely on, and we will have very strong ones in electronics and seating that are going to prepare for that growth and a much faster growth than so far. Ignite will be a much stronger, a more focused, and more competitive FORVIA.
Let's refer back to the three strategic priorities: best-in-class performance, business transformation, and invigorating our culture. Today, we want to give an extended progress report on how we are in these three dimensions.
Performance enhancement is taking place on the R&D, on the engineering side, obviously in our operations, in the plants, and there's a clear enabler to it: productivity and the application of digital tools and artificial intelligence. We're going to hear about that one.
Then the business transformation, it's all about sharpening of the portfolio and do that really for leadership positions that we are having with some of the elements of our portfolio, and that's where investments need to go. We want to be clear with ourselves and you as the investors where our CapEx, where our allocations go with priority.
Then we have the divestiture, interiors, so that's part of the transformation, a very first good and visible step. Let's not forget the third pillar, our invigorating culture.
It's all about accountability and empowerment. I told you earlier on, I saw really strong accountability already as a good cultural trait in FORVIA, but that element of empowerment, of trust to our people, that is new, and that is going to really result into much better performance.
We'll be faster, it'll be energized, and we'll take good care of our clients in that sense. You see the three strategic priorities that I announced early last year are very relevant for the continuation under the Ignite framework.
Let's look forward. Where do we want to be there?
Here's a financial projection. Olivier is going to share more details afterwards, but we're going to be a €21 to €22 billion company.
This comes with an organic growth in the range of 2% over that timeframe, but we also reserve for more divestiture in that number. There's about, you'll see that, about €1 billion of revenue that we reserve for possible divestiture.
The operating margin will be 7% and above. We expect net cash flow in the range of 3.5%, and we're down the leverage ratio to 1.2 times.
That's important. We have shown how we can do that even organically very well.
It's important because 1.2 times in the automotive world qualifies us for investment grade. We want to deliver that four times, but 1.2 times is the entry barrier we are taking.
With that, we're going to get to a very solid financial structure, and that allows for the growth in phase two, where we want to lead and grow. Here's the agenda.
How are we going to go through the day? We'll stay on Ignite transformation, and I believe that's the most important part for you, what's the future structure of the company.
In this part, I'll have Peter Laier, our new CEO for FORVIA HELLA, on stage and then also Sébastien Limousin in the first row. He's the EVP for the seating business.
We'll cover the transformation part. Then after a break, we get to Ignite performance.
Olivier, our COO, is going to take care of that. I'm going to take over for the culture piece, and then Olivier Durand is back with all the numbers wrapping it up and concluding with Q&A at the end of the day.
Let's start with transformation. All right, we need to wake up everyone.
Let's look into reshaping our portfolio and how we focus our resources on this areas where we have the strongest right to win. Here the automotive trends, and there's really powerful shifts happening, as in the automotive space.
When we go a bit through the various technology fields, let's start with clean mobility. It's about electrification, but not only about pure battery electric vehicles, but also hybrid vehicles, range extenders are coming up really in great numbers.
Second field: connectivity and the digital experience we have. We want to be always on as users, and the integration of our smartphones, everything has to be seamless.
That's our expectation. That's forming a strong trend.
In the middle there, the software-defined vehicle, it's much more than just a buzzword. It really means that architectures for electronics and the wiring harnesses are strictly simplified.
We get to fewer computers in the car, and at the same time, more and more features of the vehicle are determined by software, and that is upgradable over the lifetime. A very good trend that goes across all systems in the vehicle.
Then if you go to the safety and comfort space, also there, more advanced expectations. It's driven to a good extent by the Chinese consumers.
When you then think about autonomous driving, automated driving, it's a whole new level that opens up space for more comfort, and many of those products we have. For me, it's very important that our activities link well to these trends and that we even shape the trends with our technology offerings.
You can see on the top, electronics fuels it all, and that's why it is a super growth field for us, and we are going to go into a deep dive a little later to say what are the specific areas that we grow from. Also seating and lighting, right?
With that requests for safety and comfort, there's more content coming, and we're driving that. Even a seat is in the meanwhile well controlled by software.
That software-defined vehicle trend also impacts our lighting business and gives opportunity to the seating business as well. Clarion, connectivity, and digital experience, and last not least, we have our Lifecycle Solutions business, which serves aftermarket.
You can see how that benefits actually from all the content that goes into vehicles. In essence, our activities that we have are very well aligned with the driving trends that we see in the market.
Much for a technology quick overview. Then what are the market dynamics?
We have a clear view on that. There's a lot happening in Asia and in China.
That's where the key growth is focusing. At the same time, the world gets very diverse.
Regulations are specific to each country, to each region, and we know we follow that. We talked about trade barriers, the tariffs, also something to have in mind.
How does FORVIA play in this kind of complex environment? We have a clear global reach.
Marketplace, we want to be there for everyone, for all customers in all regions. That's the aspiration.
We have a global footprint. We are also close to our customers.
When we discussed tariffs, we said, no, our belief is local for local production, local for local sourcing, so that's good. Because that proximity gives us also the intimacy with the customers that we need to score and to grow even faster.
This intimacy is really taking place with our well-established customers, let's say, in Europe, in the Americas, but as well with new entrants and in particular with the Chinese OEMs. From that point, I say we are very well prepared for our future growth.
Before moving in, a quick summary I want to give. Think about where we say we have a portfolio that's well connected.
The world is our playground, right? What do we have to do?
Now we have to select where we want to play the strongest, where is the strongest right to win. That brings us, in fact, into that slide here.
I believe, ladies and gentlemen, that's at the core of the strategy, and I know you have waited for that slide to know where is FORVIA going to focus. You see on the one hand side the growth cluster, on the other hand, the value cluster.
We divide our portfolio into these two clusters. Both groups have different roles when it comes to strategy, and both roles are very important to win for FORVIA.
It's not about importance one over the other, but it's different roles in life. We position seating and electronics, where we enjoy a very strong tech leadership, where we have a diversified customer portfolio, and, again, where we have the right to win.
Here, we are very ready to invest, obviously always in a disciplined manner, but that's the mainstream for you. Then on the other side, when we look on the value segment, we have clean mobility, we have the Lifecycle business, the lighting business, and the interiors business being in that one.
As I said, the focus is different. Here it's about real performance, performance, performance, and cash generation.
That value cluster fuels the growth story of FORVIA's. I think it goes without saying, we need different leadership: one with that clear performance focus, the other one, sure, also with performance, but then with growth in mind.
We have different assets in those two different clusters. Why did we choose electronics and seating to be in the growth cluster?
Electronics, we talked about the trends and how this is a super growth engine. Yep, software, electrification, autonomous driving, it's pretty obvious there's just tons of opportunity.
Also seating is growing in terms of content, better comfort expectations by the users. Those of you who have been using Chinese vehicles, maybe in China, have come to appreciate all that comfort, right, that new seats bring, but also safety requirements are still increasing for seats.
Do you want to be safe in a reclined position, better, and there's also sustainability requirements that drive that seating business. We have good leadership positions in both of them.
Then let me see why those two together? Let's have that look, too, right?
You understand the individual strength, but there is strength in combining those two. Because there's the ultimate growth from the electronics business, but also on the seating side, we have resilient growth.
Every car continues to have seats, but by that content growth, we are on that continuous ramp as well. We have complimentary business of something very resilient and stable, and, yes, we take more chances and risk a little more also on the electronics side, but together, it's a strong complement.
One step deeper, let's look a bit into the electronics business. We have a strong momentum going in that segment with an annual gross growth rate of about 10%.
That's where we are. We have very strong leadership positions already in body electronics, in the energy management, for components business.
Components are sensors, right, and are also actuators. Going forward, we want to double down on zonal modules and Peter is going to share them.
We believe that there's strong growth opportunities in zonal controllers with more integrated power electronics and also with in-cabin electronics. Peter, look forward already to your presentation.
We'll do in a tech look to those areas. Overall, we see that we can even boost the growth rate of our electronics business.
Thinking about the second phase, lead and grow, it's going to be in excess of the 10% we offer here to your perspective. On seating, you got it right.
There's more comfort, wellness, safety requirements that drives content per seat or content per vehicle. We play in the seating area very well from our China strength.
That we are the leader there with the Chinese OEMs when it comes to seating applications. We innovate locally very fast.
We are very competitive in that field and are very fast in industrializing business. Those are strengths that we transfer to the rest of the world.
When Sébastien is going to be up and talk about his growth, it's going to be not only about technology, but also about further geographic extension. Asia is a playing field.
Good focus is going to go into India. We're going to talk about an extended customer base as well.
Today, we are very focused on passenger car vehicles, but we can extend that very well to the commercial vehicle. Then also in that field, we see strategic partnerships that we can have around the world as an additional growth driver.
Sébastien, you're going to explain how you put growth into gear and make it to a 4% growth business in the future. That was the growth cluster and the businesses that belong to it.
Now I would like to return to the value cluster and give you an update on what's happening in the various businesses there. With lighting and Clarion, we have two businesses that will enjoy operational improvements.
Top of the game as we speak, there's margin upside in both of them. Let's start with lighting.
It's a €3.6 billion business today, and I think you can agree that FORVIA HELLA lighting is the undisputed tech leader when it comes to lighting over the last 100 years. Nevertheless, we've got to focus cost, and we've got to be much more CapEx and cash conscious in that field.
Because playing that old premium segment was good, we want to expand that business to really hit the volume space. First step is going to be bring cost structures in the right spot and then grow into the volume market.
Going to Clarion, €1.4 billion business in cockpit electronics. Here we are going to gain competitiveness through structuring our R&D approach and R&D cost much better.
Here's clear rationalization potential. Another route that we pursue is looking for partnerships in that area.
Software is so R&D intense, and you can imagine the tons of software that go into an infotainment cluster. We want to be able to share these efforts with partners.
Again, the business gets more R&D effective and therefore then also more profitable. In summary, performance, profitability, cash to be improved on those two segments.
Then the second part of the value cluster, we have clean mobility and Lifecycle Solutions in it. These are already strong cash generators as we speak.
Clean mobility, and we are the world leader, both in terms of volume and technology. I explained already earlier that there is an outlook also on more technology coming for hybrid vehicles, for range extenders, we're going to keep boosting that.
What is really important for that business? In a way to load our existing capacities, because there's no doubt the number of internal combustion engines is still going to decline, we want to remain strong, defend our market share, and increase our market share on the existing capacities.
We've been pretty successful in doing so, customers give us organic business, and they help organically consolidate. What does that mean?
When customers used to do the own manufacturing and want to get out of it due to the transformation, they hand over these volumes to us. The same thing is true for players who decide to no longer play in that space, what I call this organic integration and consolidation is something that we continue to drive.
All in all, that results in double-digit margins and strong cash generation. Last one on the list, Lifecycle Solutions.
Here, it's a €1 billion business, and we benefit very well from the strong HELLA brand in the aftermarket. Why is that business so successful over the years and very robust?
We have a good combination of knowing the OEM business, of being with the workshops. We do diagnostics means and devices for garages, and we know what parts are being needed to repair vehicles.
Then we have our aftermarket channel to distribute the parts to the point of use. That's a strong proposition, and, again, it has very resilient margins and cash flow.
Also, I want to give you an example that value cluster businesses can still grow. We intend to do that in aftermarket, right?
Aftermarket is a trading business. We can grow in an asset-light manner by taking other companies' products and channel them into our aftermarket routes.
You see how growth is not contradictory to being a member of the value cluster family. All right, I think with this, we are through the most important piece: growth and value.
Now let's look forward. We want to boost obviously the whole company.
I gave you examples also in the value cluster. We have two more dimensions in which we will boost the growth, and that is by geography and then also by the customer segment extensions.
Let's talk geographies first. China is a strong game of FORVIA's.
Last year, we had 21% of our sales, €4.5 billion after IFRS 5, in that market, and by far had 50% plus of our business. I mentioned the order intake, right?
€8 billion, 80% with Chinese OEMs, so that's putting the whole company ahead here. Also, the customer extensions we are doing right now, we said we are strong with BYD.
In the past, we were not so strong with Geely. We are adding Geely now to the portfolio, Chery, and others.
That's good. You'll hear this year about joint venture partnership that we'll be announcing, of the same quality as we have been doing with BYD and Chery, where we become a major partner to a large OEM in China providing their seating solutions.
China is important, and I mentioned that, but I want to repeat it, because it's really a learning and training center for us. We innovate locally, we drive it at speed, we drive it at great cost, our global OEMs are going to benefit from that.
It goes without saying that we also join the Chinese OEMs when they go into other regions, BYD, Chery, Leapmotor, and customers of ours here in Europe, or when they go to South America as well. In summary, the further growth in China, in particularly with the Chinese OEMs, should represent round about 16% of our global sales by 2028.
That's I think impressive number. Let's continue.
In terms of diversification and segments, three fields of opportunity. We have opportunity with Japanese and Korean OEMs, we have opportunity in India, and we have opportunity in the commercial vehicle field.
Let's start with the Japanese and Korean OEMs. These firms deliver 32 million vehicles a year.
They have a third of the world market, and we are round about represented with 10% of the global FORVIA sales with Japanese and Korean OEMs. You can see what kind of an opportunity that is.
Why is there special interest by the Japanese and Koreans these days in FORVIA? It, again, goes back to China, where we prove innovation, cost competitiveness, speed.
We just had a very fine order that we took in from Toyota this past year, where exactly due to these traits and capabilities, they chose FORVIA to step into a commodity with Toyota that we had not served before. China is really good practicing ground, and it makes us very attractive.
Next one, India. By 2030, we expect that market to be 7.5 million vehicles.
Our sales last year was €450 million. Compare that to our €26 billion, you see there's a disconnect, right?
At the same time, we already have 6,000 people on the ground in India, thereof more than 2,500 engineers. Far, these engineers served the global projects as an extended workbench for R&D, and they are ready and capable to now drive local business.
What's easier than putting our assets in India to work towards the Indian customers, both the international ones and the local ones? Also here, I want to leave a number with you: We expect to double our €400 million by the end of this decade.
Good, and the third column here, very quickly, again, we mentioned that already with regard to the seating business, we have a great opportunity in commercial vehicles. Today, that segment is good for 2% of our global sales, which is really small.
The market in commercial vehicles are super attractive. It's driven by regulations.
The products, the technologies are highly innovative, and we can enjoy a long lifespan once we get into this programs. Therefore, we have now structured dedicated product lines, dedicated teams that are going to tap into the commercial vehicle market for us.
You see in both dimensions, geographies and customer segments, there's more we can do and we will do. Let's zoom out once more.
I try to take all of you really on that Ignite journey, right? Where did we start?
We said, okay, we understand the trends, we know how the FORVIA business groups relate to these trends. We have Ignite phase one pretty much laid out, right: performance, transformation, and culture.
Deep into transformation and the portfolio: two clear clusters that are going to drive our capital allocations between the growth cluster and the value cluster. Then if you go across the board, we have additional growth opportunity for everyone by driving the right geographies and extending the kind of customer segments we serve.
That's where we stand so far. I want to invite you to two deep dives.
We chose obviously the two businesses in the growth cluster to give you an idea what are the technologies, what are the growth opportunities. First one on stage for the electronics portion, and then Sébastien is going to follow up on the seating side.
Peter, welcome on stage.
Peter Laier
Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. As mentioned by Martin, electronics will play a central role in FORVIA's Ignite transformation.
Please allow me to start at first with a summary of the three key takeaways I want to convey in my presentation in the next few minutes. First, the electronics business gives us overproportional growth opportunities with bottom-line performance.
Second, we are very selective in identifying our targeted business arenas specifically in electronics to play to our strengths. Number three, we have already remarkable business wins in electronics and contracted technology partnerships with our customers that confirms that we have selected the right arenas.
In summary, the motto to remember is: We select business arenas carefully to unleash profitable growth. Let me start on the next slide to show you which trends are shaping our industry and how we turn this into attractive business for us.
Our electronics portfolio is aligned with three key trends in electronics: software-defined vehicles, or in short, SDV; the electrification of the vehicles and the powertrains; and in-cabin user experience. The SDV trend increases the software content in the vehicle and the software content independent of hardware.
This increasing software content and the related functions leads to a move from increasingly distributed architectures to less complex, more centralized EE architectures, in which the centralized hardware is characterized by domain and zonal ECUs, and those ECUs are running the computing and the decision-making. By 2035, we expect somehow 60% of newly produced vehicles to operate in some form of those centralized EE architectures.
Hence, there is a innovation race to be won being first to market with leading-edge technology. Second trend you see on this chart is electrification.
Despite some hiccups which we have experienced in the Western world, electrification will continue to ramp up across all different electric powertrains. Electric powertrains will raise to approximately 70% of newly produced vehicles in 2030.
We anticipate a prolonged period of parallel electrification, that means we will have mild hybrids, we will have plug-in hybrids, range extenders, and full battery electric vehicles. One thing all those technologies have in common: They will continue to drive an above-market trends demand for battery management and power electronics because all of them need solutions for electrical efficiency, and that is exactly what we can provide.
The third trend you see on the chart is in-cabin user experience. This is on the one side driven by safety regulations and, on the other side, by an ongoing expectation of sophistication of user experience in the vehicle.
In the future, automated driving vehicle generations will increase the need of driver behavior monitoring to fulfill safety regulations. This results in an increased need of in-cabin monitoring solutions.
At the same time, the users expect seamless integration of their own digital environments in the vehicle. This drives the demand for solutions that provide technology-agnostic connectivity and platforms for digital experiences in the car of the future.
We are operating in a market which is sizable and growing significantly faster than the underlying vehicle volumes. As you can see on this chart, the segments we are addressing will grow from €30 billion plus in sales, and while vehicle production will only increase by round about 1% per year until 2030, we expect an average growth rate of around 10% per year in our slice of the market, and that means this market will reach round about €50 billion by 2030.
Our electronics business is actually around €3.1 billion strong today, that means we have a market share of round about 10%. As mentioned in my introduction, we choose our business arenas carefully to unleash profitable growth, and we have proven since many years with a strong track record that we are selecting our playing fields carefully.
That in line with the related segment attractiveness, our ability to differentiate, and to play to our strengths. You can see here on this chart all areas we have selected to play, be it battery and power electronics, be it body electronics, be it selected components, be it in-cabin electronics.
All of them will experience high above-average growth rate. Let me now talk a little bit what's our right to win and how we will win this game.
We have established and we will continue to expand our leadership in market positions and technology. We are already today amongst the top three in body electronics, in selected components, as well as in in-vehicle app markets.
Already today, we are generating 80% of our order intake in highly innovative and fast-growing areas of the business, high-growth business with components, for example, where we are with our industry-leading radar sensors in a very good position. Our customers are trusting in us.
Already today, over 50 OEM technology partnerships reflects that our deep and long understanding of the customer relationship, our early involvement in technologies is proving that we are the partner of choice. Our right to win in electronics is sustained by a broad skill set spanning the full value chain from components to systems, from hardware to software.
Our market leadership provides us the scale which we need to ensure healthy returns. Let me now go a little bit deeper about the selected key growth drivers which we have in our business and how this is shaping the mentioned industry megatrends.
What you see here are three examples how we choose our arenas carefully to unleash profitable growth. In the arena of SDV, the newly relevant EE architectures, here in this area, we selected specifically zonal modules to play to our strengths and to win.
In the same time, we have decided to step out actively from high-performance compute and the domain ECUs. In electrification, we have a strong base in battery management and power electronics.
By combining both of them in our so-called X-in-1 energy management system and integrating further functions, we provide a key enable in the future for efficient energy management in the next generation of electrified vehicles. In regard of our in-cabin user experience, we focus on two areas: the interior monitoring and the in-vehicle app market.
Our allocation of capital, as mentioned by Martin, as well as our resources, is focused exactly on those strategically selected segments where we can play to our strengths and realize profitable growth. If you look now to this slide here, let me dive a little bit deeper in the SDV structure and our strategy in that regard.
Before I do that, allow me to show a short video about the characteristics of EE architectures in the future.
As vehicles evolve into software-defined platforms, their electrical and electronic architecture must be reimagined. The key enabler of this shift: zonal modules.
Today, carmakers are shifting from complex architectures with up to 100 separate electronic control units to zonal architectures. A central computer now works with a few zonal modules, each managing the functions in its area.
This approach cuts the number of ECUs, simplifies wiring, allows for over-the-air updates, accelerates processing, and improves power and data distribution. It only works if each zone can reliably manage, distribute, and protect both data and power, a key requirement for vehicle safety.
A zonal module keeps safety-critical functions running, even during a fault. Acting as the real-time intelligent hub within the vehicle's power and data network, it becomes the foundation of software-defined architecture.
This is where FORVIA HELLA stands out, delivering a full range of solutions from chip-level components to hardware, software functions, and complete system integration. With 30 years of experience in EE architecture, FORVIA provides all the key building blocks: eFuses, ensuring instant protection; i-Con F, our advanced electronic fuse designed to maintain critical functions even during a fault, powered by an in-house developed, unique compact chip; intelligent power distribution modules, IPDMs, the power distribution panel; and zonal modules, the local control hub.
In short, FORVIA is shaping the software-defined vehicle era.
Peter Laier
As shown in the video, you can see that the shift towards those centralized EE architectures concentrates the value in domain and zonal ECUs. With that, we focus on zonal ECUs, as mentioned, and we are able to capture larger spend of the OEMs in this arena.
Our integrated one-stop shop solution for zonal modules offers chip design, hardware, and software at the same time. This increases the agility and enables the OEMs in their transformation to central EE architectures to act according to their needs, and confirms that they have the partner of choice with us.
First to market in execution with leading OEMs and an order intake of already now over €1.5 billion provides tangible evidence that customers trust in us and that we are able to grow in this area reliably. On the next slide, we deep dive in the different types of electrification.
As I mentioned, from hybrid to battery electric vehicles, the demand will increase in the next few years, and there is a demand for advanced power electronics integration on system level. With our innovative X-in-1 system, we are combining battery management, onboard charger, DC/DC converter, together with software-enabled compactness into one ECU.
This new X-in-1 delivers somehow 35% volume reduction, 20% weight reduction, and 5% efficiency improvement compared to the combination of the standalone components. Selected partnerships we have already with battery cell manufacturers and early OEM co-development positions us as a major player on the future of xEV platforms.
Our order intake is in 2025 over €1.5 billion just for battery and power electronics, and this provides again a clear evidence of customer trust in us and gives us a clear indication of future growth opportunities. In regard of in-cabin user experience, as mentioned, regulatory and insurance regulation standards are elevating safety requirements specifically for increasing number of automated vehicles.
This translates into tangible growth for us, with in-cabin sensor content which is increasing by somehow 20% per vehicle annually. In parallel, the connected vehicle base rises by 10% per year due to the mentioned user expectations and the seamless digital continuity, which we are having as a related with technology-agnostic platforms that integrate personal digital ecosystems into the car.
We address both the opportunity spaces through integrated hardware and software capabilities which we have. In 2025, as a proving point, we strengthened our cooperation with Microsoft to enable voice-enabled interactions, intelligent content discovery, as well as personalized user experiences.
Our confirmed orders already today for interior monitoring cover over 15 million vehicles, and we have a broad adaptation for our Appland in the vehicles. As well, this provides again tangible proof of our opportunities in the future.
To summarize, we will expand our organic business systematically. Until 2028, we grow with a CAGR of 10% in line with the market.
Earnings guidance for the operating margin until 2028 is 8% operating margin. As mentioned, we prioritize investments in the mentioned high-growth innovations.
From 2028 onward, we expect the benefit from those prioritized investments as industry trends accelerate. Our growth outlook beyond 2028 is 12% or above, driven by market share gains on the one side and the creation of further leadership positions.
With that financial outlook, I would like to close my presentation. Would like to thank you for your attention and hand over to Sébastien.
Sébastien Limousin
Thank you, Peter. Good morning.
I'm going to highlight today our ambition and strategy for FORVIA Seating. They are based on two pillars.
The first one is resilience and stability: geographic mix, but as well a constantly improving operational performance. The second pillar is growth.
We have a strong potential for growth thanks to the exploration of new markets, of new segments, and thanks to innovation. That's what I'm going to present.
Let's look at our product, which is a simple fact. A seat is one of the most complex system in the vehicles.
It integrates numerous technologies and more than 80 components. We have more than 80 components in a seat.
In addition, a car manufacturer can order up to 20 different variants just hours before deliveries. Managing this level of complexity requires a lot of know-how.
Why? To deal with metal, textile, foam, but as well electronics and sensors.
We need more than 20 different skills to produce a seat. In addition, we have to be compliant with the most stringent safety regulations, like OCS in the US, Occupant Classification System in the US.
A seat is a safety component. What is the conclusion of all of this?
Seating is a concentrated market because not every single supplier can master this level of complexity. In this environment, FORVIA holds a unique competitive position.
First, we are number one worldwide in mechanism and structure, third on complete seat. Our strength come from our dual business model.
On one side, we deliver high volumes and highly engineered products, mechanism and structure, coming from massified and regional hubs. On the other side, we have JIT facilities, assembly, located very close to our customers to ensure maximum flexibility and reactivity.
This dual business model give us resilience and is highly cost-effective. In addition, we have a balanced customer and geographic mix.
We are particularly strong in Asia, including China, of course, where we generate more than 30% of our revenue. Our stable and growing performance is driven by a strong industrial performance with a goal of setting the standards in our industry.
First, we rely on automation and artificial intelligence, deeply improving our process. Secondly, our second lever is a selective vertical integration in our JIT facilities to further reduce our cost and to increase our efficiencies.
The last one is modularity. We have launched a modular concept for process and product in order to further reduce our cost and to increase our flexibility.
A clear evidence of all of this is the factory you see on this picture. We have been awarded as a Lighthouse factory for outstanding productivity by the World Economic Forum in January 2026 in our Yangcheng plant in China.
This external recognition is a clear evidence of our leading position in manufacturing. Let's now look at our market, seating market.
It is a €65 billion industry in 2025, but several segments are growing very fast. The first one is comfort and wellness solutions, with a growth expected from 5% to 8% per year until 2030.
This is directly aligned with the premiumization we see globally, particularly in China. The second one, and Martin mentioned it earlier this morning, is India.
India is another major driver for growth, and I will explain later why we are well positioned to capture this growth. The last two segments are different.
Japanese and Korean OEMs and commercial and industrial vehicles are the segments where we have a strong potential to increase our market share, as I will explain later. To conclude, our growth pillar is a combination of on one side dynamic markets, on the other side the exploration of new segments and geographies.
Our stability and growth is really fueled by our roadmap. We capture the market trends, which are on one side more comfort and better user experience, on the other side, sustainability.
Let me share with you a few examples of our innovations. The first one is SafeSeat60.
SafeSeat60 is a concept of seat which enables you to incline your seats at 60 degrees, like that, while ensuring the safety of the occupant. This is a strong demand from the customers, and we have developed a unique solution.
On comfort and wellness, we are continuing to expand further on heating, on ventilation, on massage. In addition, we have developed a new concept of sensor for OCS, Occupant Classification System, which address the upcoming regulation in the US.
Finally, and last but not least, sustainability. Sustainability is really embedded in everything we do.
A few examples: The first one is Ecorium. Ecorium is our solution, it's a recyclable material which is an alternative to leather.
It is PET and hemp. This material, Ecorium, enables to reduce carbon emission by 90%.
This material, Ecorium, is already in serial life production for two customers. We provide as well lightweight architectures with low-carbon steel, a demand from our customers, and we design products for recyclability.
All what you see here contributes to reduce our carbon emission, which is our goal. China plays a key role in our innovation.
Actually, FORVIA Group was one of the first Tier 1 supplier to invest in China, and where now our seating division employs more than 1,000 people in three R&D centers serving major clients like Li Auto, for instance, or Chery or BYD. Our strong relationship with our customers in China enables us to be at the forefront of the innovation.
Why? Speed and agility to develop our innovations.
One example, and Martin mentioned it earlier this morning, is the 3D Zen massage, you see here. We are able to develop this innovation in less than a year from a concept to a serial life production, and we did it in China.
A second example I want to share with you this morning, and we developed it in China as well, is the Intelligent Seat. Let's look at a short video.
FORVIA introduces the Intelligent Seat, an AI-powered, software-driven platform that learns, predicts, and adapts in real time to you and your driving context. The Intelligent Seat senses, thinks, and acts.
High-resolution pressure mapping with embedded seat sensors, smart actuators, and an AI seat agent work in closed loop to find the right posture every moment. Automatic seating modes continuously adapting to the driving context, from relaxed comfort to dynamic support.
Speak naturally to your AI seat agent or just sit back. Intelligent Seat adjusts seamlessly to you and your environment, responding to each situation.
Welcome to the software-defined vehicle era: an upgradable platform that enables continuous improvement. The Intelligent Seat: AI-powered comfort and safety for everybody in every moment.
Sébastien Limousin
What is the key takeaway of this innovation you saw in this video, and that you can see in our facility today? What is the key takeaway?
We are able to combine our expertise in comfort and wellness, our knowledge of software and AI, to provide the best experience on board. That's really our strength: the comfort and wellness expertise enhanced with AI and software.
India is, as mentioned by Martin, one big automotive market with a strong growth projected at around 7% every year in order to reach 4 million vehicles in India in 2030. FORVIA Seating is extremely well positioned to capture this growth.
Why? First, we are already present in India, and we have a long-standing relationship with both global and local OEMs, such as Tata, Volkswagen, Mahindra, and Maruti Suzuki.
Secondly, we are now expanding our footprint in India. What we are doing is to move from the just assembly footprint that we have today to offer a full footprint in the coming months, in order to reach 10% of market share in India.
This is our ambition: 10% of market share in the coming years in India. A third area for us where we have really huge opportunity to increase our market share is commercial and industrial vehicles.
This market, it is a huge market, €11 billion in 2024, and it is growing considerably both in China and in expanding. We have already built strong partnerships.
Two examples: One strong partnership with a European truck manufacturer on the on-highway segment, another one is a partnership and contract with an American manufacturer in agriculture. We have already secured a multi-billion euro order intake, which will enter into production in 2027.
What is new now? In this segment, we are reinforcing our portfolio with a dedicated offer for commercial vehicles in both segments: so in on-highway and off-highway.
We are really developing products specifically adapted for this market. Our ambition is that this market, commercial vehicle segment, represent 10% of our overall sales in 2028.
Now, let me conclude with our financial trajectory. On one side, our sales are expected to grow at 4% on average from 2028.
This progress is driven by three strategic pillars that I just presented: so new products, new geographies, and new markets. That's only one part.
The second one is that we are focused on disciplined execution: modularization of our architectures, automation and AI, selective vertical integration, with a strong discipline of CapEx allocation. These initiatives, I just mentioned, are already visible in our manufacturing excellence and our financial results.
To give you an example, we improve our profitability by 70 basis points in 2025 versus '24. To sum up, and in short, our transformation is both innovation-driven and performance-driven.
Thank you for your attention.
Martin Fischer
Sébastien, thank you.
Sébastien Limousin
Thank you, Martin.
Martin Fischer
Let's wrap up the transformation session of Ignite. You saw we are working in different phases.
Phase one of Ignite is about discipline and focus. That's true for a streamlined portfolio, it's true for a much more consequent execution.
We will generate better profit and cash and can leverage that way. You saw we want to play to the strengths, and those two deep dives served to show where the real strength is.
It's deep, technologically rooted. We are going to go into these established areas, but also selectively expand the portfolio.
With that, we get into the growth phase of Ignite, where we can work from a healthier balance sheet and have a more focused portfolio. We can expand leadership positions where we have that long-term right to win and can create that longer-term value.
In summary, Ignite is pretty simple, and has to be simple and can be communicated that way: Ignite is to drive what matters today to unlock what's next. That brings us to what's next.
It's an 18-minute break. I would ask you everyone be back at 11:40, make it 18 minutes.
There are some beverages and little snacks available for the people in the room, and we'll see you back online as well at 11:40. Thank you.
Welcome back, everyone. We get into the next chapter, and that's Ignite Performance.
I would like to welcome our COO to stage, Olivier Lefebvre, to get us through that part of the program.
Olivier Lefebvre
Thank you, Martin. Ladies and gentlemen, I'm glad to be with you today as a committed FORVIA leader to building an engine that delivers scale, profit, and keeps us ahead.
Today, I want to make one thing absolutely clear: Our strategy for best-in-class performance follows two powerful directions. First, we focus on delivering operational excellence now.
This is our foundation, our core, and it delivers fast and tangible results. Second, we use this strong base to scale our performance for tomorrow.
That means driving the structural changes we need today. Let me take you through these two directions.
Let's start with where we come from. FORVIA has a unique operating model, the FORVIA Excellence System.
It already gives us a strong base built on safety, customer focus, and sustainability. For safety, in just 3 years, we have reduced our accidents by three, thanks to a consistent application of our standard.
Our ambition is total safety for our employees, with less than one accident per million hours worked, which is the benchmark in our industry. Looking at our customers, we have improved quality year-over-year, reducing claims by 30% versus 2023.
This progress earned us more than 160 awards in 2024. Our customers now see FORVIA as one of their best partners: responsive, proactive, and transparent.
Regarding sustainability, we have reduced Scope 1 and 2 by over 90% thanks to the commitment of our sites. We reduced our Scope 3 by 8.4% versus 2019, while keeping aligning our strategy with customers.
Thanks to our FORVIA Excellence System, FORVIA stands on solid foundations. Before going further, a short video that brings this system to life.
At FORVIA, the FORVIA Excellence System is our operating model to drive strong, sustainable performance. FES enables us to build safer workplaces, smarter plants, and world-class products, from design to production and supply chain, and from top management to frontline teams, in every site, every day.
To make this a reality, we develop our teams through a structured learning path: on-the-job coaching, dojo modules, shop-floor workshops, and shared standards applied consistently across all plants. This ensures that everyone speaks the same operational language.
FES also brings discipline and stability through shop-floor enforcement, daily routines at all levels, and a problem-solving mindset focused on immediate action. Since 2025, every site has been audited yearly to track progress, benchmark against the best, and identify risks before they appear.
These reviews drive us to deliver best-in-class performance. Every day, FES creates value by improving equipment and labor efficiency and material usage.
FES gives us the discipline to improve today and the capability to accelerate tomorrow. It is the backbone of our operational excellence.
Enter a world where performance grows.
Olivier Lefebvre
Our FORVIA Excellence System does not just create foundation. It accelerates profitability.
You saw in this video how FES drives continuous improvement: lower energy, better equipment and labor efficiency, material usage. It creates value every day.
FES is also for us discipline. When I reviewed plant performance as COO in 2025, I found plants with the most limited FES maturity, located mainly in US, Mexico, and interior systems.
These are the plants at the bottom left of the graph. In just 12 months, these plants improved their margin by 5 points.
This was a major contribution to our last year performance. We are changing how we operate.
It is a cultural change. We want FES applied everywhere, at any time, by everyone.
What is even more important, by lifting our plants to the big blue square, we prevent execution issues, and we enable the transformation of the potential we have identified to deliver operational excellence. At the same time, we are also transforming in a structural way through four decisive workstreams in order to scale the performance for tomorrow.
Firstly, we are strengthening our operating resilience. We need to further adapt our footprint.
Thirdly, we need to continuously improve our cost base. Finally, we are scaling digital everywhere and AI transformation on a selective, but with very high potential domains.
This is how we achieve best-in-class performance. To secure our performance in a fast-changing business environment, we must adapt our value chain and enforce cybersecurity.
Best-in-class value chain management requires both: on one side, resilience, and on the other side, best cost. We already have 80% of our production local-to-local.
That already provides a strong core. Resilience today requires much more.
It means end-to-end transparency, proactively redesigning our supply chain network, and it means creating optionality before the crisis, not after it. To keep delivering best-in-class cost, in parallel, we leverage AI: AI sourcing engine for our purchasing team to capture the best opportunities, AI to optimize our transport, along with organization transformation.
This will create value. By 2028, our transport cost-to-sales ratio will drop by 20% versus 2023.
In short, we're securing our execution, tackling the biggest external challenges in a structural and competitive way. We are also boosting our agility by bringing CapEx and capitalized R&D clearly below 7% of sales.
We've already accelerated our development lead time to match Asian market expectations. Last year, we cut lead time on key European programs by up to 50%, thanks to a smarter balance between standardization and targeted customization.
The key point now is to scale these achievements by leveraging our know-how, our lessons learned, and our best practices with virtual twins. We will reduce development hours on all our programs by 30% by 2028 versus 2024.
In manufacturing, we are reducing our CapEx to the minimum needed to operate, but without compromising performance. Thanks to a stronger discipline in how we allocate CapEx and shape our footprint, thanks to standardization and lean design to massify equipment and lower cost, and also by limiting investment, thanks to better efficiency and reusing assets.
In short, we are reshaping our investment base to fuel sustainable growth, as we saw before, and stronger cash generation. The third pillar of our transformation is how to define a more competitive cost base, powered by, on one side, smart automation, and on the other side, a simpler, faster organization.
With more than 2,000 AGVs and 7,000 robots already in service in our plants, we have already proven that selective automation drives productivity and optimizes cost. Now we scale this globally, focusing on short payback opportunities.
This will help us to increase our labor productivity by 10% by 2028 and strengthen our margin. At the same time, we are simplifying how the company works.
We are driving a real cultural shift: fewer layers, faster decisions, streamlined processes, and AI agents to automate end-to-end processes. This is our Simplify project.
It will deliver €110 million in cost base reduction. In our market, defined by speed and competition, we are moving to operate faster, lighter, and stronger.
Our fourth axis is our digital and AI transformation. Our ambition is clear: Connect, integrate, and scale AI to unlock value creation.
Connectivity is already transforming our performance. We have today more than 5,800 production lines that generate real-time data structured in the cloud.
This powers quicker deviation, faster problem-solving, better optimization, and strong plant performance, through tools like, for instance, predictive maintenance. We are also eliminating intermediary systems that break digital continuity across the product lifecycle.
Within 3 years, sales, engineering, purchasing, and plants will run on a fully integrated system. That means better cost and margin visibility, and seamless data continuity from design to manufacturing.
Finally, we are leveraging AI to increase our value creation. With our AI Transformation Studio, we are industrializing the development of AI to drive value creation and quick-payback digital bricks.
Over 30 AI agents moving from decision support to automated decision-making. Every function can lift its performance.
As already underlined by Sébastien in the seating part, we are very proud of one of our plants. This plant has been recognized as a Lighthouse factory for outstanding productivity by the World Economic Forum.
Let's immerse ourselves in this plant to discover how they connect, integrate, and scale AI.
Digital transformation is powering the next generation of manufacturing. Our Yangcheng plant is one of the clearest proof points, recognized by the World Economic Forum as a Lighthouse factory for outstanding performance and productivity.
A leading seating plant located in China operates as a fully connected ecosystem, machines, robots, and sensors continuously exchanging data in real time. Yangcheng has deployed over 40 use cases, leveraging machine learning, deep learning, and generative AI to enhance performance across planning, quality inspection, predictive maintenance, and production control.
The results are measurable and fast. The plant achieved a 7.5-month return on investment on its AI solutions, significantly accelerating value creation.
A multimodal AI quality control system has reduced costs, increased quality, and eased operator workload. A big data model now replaces and automates destructive testing, improving efficiency and consistency.
Predictive maintenance algorithms have contributed to doubling efficiency and reducing unplanned stoppages. Generative AI has boosted die-change optimization by 46%, directly increasing agility and throughput.
Yangcheng is not an isolated success. It's the blueprint for FORVIA manufacturing transformation worldwide.
Olivier Lefebvre
To conclude, we built on our greatest strength, the FORVIA Excellence System, to deliver operational excellence everywhere, at any time. At the same time, we're driving four structural transformations that will scale our performance for tomorrow.
Together with strategy, we lift our operating margin from 6% to above 7% by 2028. Leadership is always making the difference, and this is exactly what Martin will talk about now in the Ignite Culture chapter.
Martin.
Martin Fischer
Ignite Culture, the third element of our strategy. The question is how do we operate as an organization, and that is actually the key to delivery in the end.
Coming in and looking at FORVIA, I came to a quick conclusion that we have to refine the operating model. We have to be simpler, faster, and more accountable at the same time.
We touched on the organization. We are undergoing a refresh, and we are also cultivating new leadership principles that I would like to share with you this morning.
At the back of it, empowerment: empowering teams while at the same time reinforcing accountability. A more agile organization in my eyes is absolutely mandatory to master the complexity and the volatility of the market.
We want to have people decide where the decisions belong, and that's the empowerment I'm talking about. Let's look at organization first.
We have announced last year in October that we are going into a division-centric organization, I want to explain what that means. Divisions in our language are business units that act locally.
It's a subgroup of a global business group. Let's say, Seating China is a division, or Electronics North America is a division.
This is where we strengthen the organization and the accountability a lot. Why do we do so?
Those are the people on the ground. They are closest to the customer, closest to the market.
They know what's needed. Traditionally, that division has already owned its operations, everything from the customer and in the plant.
What we are changing right now is that we are reducing the matrix organization that was in place. Divisions used to get engineering services from a central engineering organization, and I did not find that very good.
Because then accountability is diluted, right? You want to give the engineers that are developing the products to these divisions, and that's what's happening right now.
At the same time, we are increasing authorization limits for the divisions as well. Within a well-disciplined framework, they have now greater rights to choose how to invest and what kind of contracts to have with the customers.
I find that authorization is very important, also clear sign to the teams we mean it. We do empower you, but also we expect results.
There's this full accountability for the outcomes, that is important. Full accountability means you get everything to run successfully.
At the end, it's about delivery. It's not about excuses in that framework.
The results are faster decisions, better adaptability, and good ownership, and that, for me, is a key enabler for Ignite. Now let's look bigger.
Obviously, performance is driven by our employees, and it is cultivated through good leadership. Therefore, we are following three principles: guide, empower, recognize.
Our leaders are here to guide in the first place, we're setting the directions, we're giving the priorities, and we are removing obstacles for the teams. Second, on empowerment, you got that through the division-centric organization.
We want to make decisions at the point of impact. We show trust to our people, we enable them to deliver, but also we hold accountable.
The third element is recognition. I can tell you we have been always pretty straightforward with feedback in FORVIA.
I want that to happen in both ways, right? We tackle things, and, yes, we are ready to take that critique, but I want also us to recognize good performance, and really foster that collaboration, that team spirit, and value good results.
That's why we picked number three, the recognition. I want to assure you those are not only aspirations, guide, empower, recognize, but first of all, we work with the leaders to establish those principles, and we do also measurement for it.
Already last year, our top leaders got feedback from their teams. How am I in guiding, empowering, and recognizing?
That feedback went into the performance appraisals, finally into the merit for those top leaders. We're going to do that this year for all 6,000 leaders in FORVIA.
Every single one of us is going to get a feedback from our teams on guide, empower, recognize, and it's going to impact my performance appraisal every year. You see how we have systematic leadership development now in place as a transformation driver.
No clicking possible, which means we come to the next stop. Olivier, back to stage, and wrap it all into financials for us.
Olivier Durand
Good good morning again. You have seen that we have set for FORVIA clear a clear strategy, clear priorities, clear choices.
Now, I would like to show how they translate in financial outcomes. I will focus on four key messages.
The first one, balance sheet. We have progress that we have achieved, and we have the forthcoming divestiture of interior.
The second message is about a new way to manage the company. We have differentiated activities in two clusters, is a differentiated approach, which enable clear and decisive investment allocation.
Third is about structurally improved financial metrics, about cost reduction, and a stronger recurring cash flow. Fourth, what will be FORVIA in '28?
FORVIA in '28 will be a solid and resilient company, with a clear financial structure, with a focus on the development of electronics and seating, and the flexibility to fully unlock those possibilities while maintaining strict financial discipline. Let me let me go through the different points.
First point is about the balance sheet. We have strengthened clearly the balance sheet since the acquisition, and I would say '25 is showing an acceleration of the organic deleveraging.
We have seen the number earlier on. We have reduced organically the leverage by 30 basic points.
On average since the acquisition, the organic deleveraging is 20 basic points. The second is that the situation at the end of '26 will be, in fact, through the organic cash flow generation, organic deleveraging, but complemented by the interior divestiture with more than €1 billion of net debt reduction, a €1.4 billion in gross debt.
On both metrics, it means a division by two from the start of the journey since the acquisition. As you as you see, and as I showed this morning, we have refinanced 50% of the debt, we have no maturity profile.
We are with a balanced maturity, 3.4 years of average, and we have the diversity of funding. We have a stronger and more resilient balance sheet that we can start with.
Looking to '28, the company will be more focused and more disciplined, in fact, with a disciplined capital allocation, and it's restoring the financial flexibility. How we will do that?
It's about the two clusters: differentiated management, differentiated investment allocation, selective investment. The second is that we consider a further selective portfolio optimization, as you have seen, and I will go in more details, contemplating an additional divestiture in the value cluster to further sharpen the profile of the group.
As a result of this, by '28, 1.2 times in leverage, which is setting to be eligible for investment grade, given the metrics of this industry. This is enabling us, in fact, to unlock the gross in the strategic and addressable market that we want to address in electronics and seating, but with a clean and solid balance sheet.
Now, what is giving confidence, in fact, in this trajectory? The first step is what Martin was calling the year zero, which is the achievements of '25.
I will not come back in a in a in a lot of details on this, but clearly speaking, 40 basic points improvement in operating margin, and this is coming from cost reductions; improvement of the net cash flow in both quantity and quality, up 47% in quantity, and in quality, much more recurring because is based on EBITDA improvement and reduction of investment; the consequence, the evolution in debt mentioned earlier on; and on top, inside this, there is a better quality of the cash we have because we have reduced the gross debt not by €600 million, but actually by €900 million. There is further progress in terms of utilizing the cash that you can count on in '26, €500 million, so that will help the reduction of the financial costs even more.
The second of course, the second element that is giving a solid chain will be the plan divestiture of interior. It's a pivotal milestone.
It's changing the profile from a portfolio standpoint. In we will be able to be more growth-driven in the in the new in the new setup of the company.
You see the evolution in terms of profitability since interior is actually dilutive today. You see, as I mentioned earlier today, the gross debt reduction, and I want to stress again that, in fact, you have to look at two metrics: the net debt reduction, but also the gross debt reduction, because we will simplify the joint ventures, less complexity in terms of location means better better cash management, easier to repatriate cash, to cash pooling.
It means gross debt reduction of €1.4 billion, and the financial cost is associated to this number. On top, you have a complement which is, if we have less joint ventures, we have less dividend to minorities that is also helping the translation of actual cash flow performance in net debt reduction.
Now, the second the second message is about driving the portfolio in a different way. We have we have shown you that we are differentiating the different businesses between the growth and the value cluster.
What are the relative weight of them? Basically, a 50/50.
You see that in '25, pro forma of the divestiture of interior, we are talking about business in growth 50%, in value. In '28, we will be close to we will be close to 60%, and leading two-thirds on the gross cluster in given the growth is automatically in the first in the first one.
It means that the the sales growth potential is increasing accordingly. Let me go in a bit more detail in each of those clusters.
Starting with the electronics and seating cluster, here, what do you have in Sébastien, Peter presented in more details the the different businesses, but you see the trajectory of growth. Electronics, 10% CAGR '25 to '28 at constant at constant forex, accelerating afterwards with the expansion of the benefit of the leadership position that he mentioned, and with the technological advantage.
In terms of seating, the 2% the 2% is for '25 to '28, accelerating afterwards. Now, the the growth is a bit different.
Is about enlargement of the CPV and enlargement of the market. You can derive that, in fact, the the embedded growth of seating is more than the embedded growth of the of the car market volume because we are attacking markets in which we are not present today: so CV, India, and In terms of profitability, first of all, you have a mix advantage: the more electronics, the better the margin.
The second, you have the cost and competitiveness on both R&D, but also in terms of operations. I think some of some of them are also related on the operations.
Above above or equal 7% on on this activity. If you take CAGR of this gross cluster, you are at an aggregate CAGR of '25-'28, 4%, but, actually, 6% after '28, which is giving you the potential of this evolution.
The value cluster, here businesses today, and as mentioned earlier by Martin, the situation are not exactly the same. You have two groups inside: You have clean mobility, Lifecycle, that are already solid cash conversion, and I would say clean mobility, given the evolution of the electrification, has a bigger value than 3 years ago, and, clearly, we are very happy to have it.
Lighting and and Clarion, lighting in need of repositioning and competitiveness recovery. Standpoint, you can expect organically to be basically '25 and '28, but you see that the drop in revenues that we are showing here is related, in fact, to potentially having additional divestiture, if and when conditions are met and appropriate, inside this domain that will even even more solidify the evolution of the balance sheet, but it will be only if it is meeting the conditions that we set ourselves.
That's why you have, in fact, on face value, a decrease in revenues inside inside this cluster for the period. From a profitability standpoint, we expect to be also here above 7%.
This is coming from this is cost reductions, competitiveness, in particular lighting and Clarion, and to further develop the profitability in clean mobility and Lifecycle. We know that, for instance, in clean mobility, we have some some possibilities compared to benchmark.
What does it mean for the aggregate company? This is, in fact, starting my third message about what it means in terms of improve for the total group.
Selective growth, 2% organically over the over the period '25-'28 before this potential divestiture. The second is about sustained cost and recurring cash flow conversion that I will show in the next page.
Revenues, the growth is coming from the cluster of the same name. In terms of profitability, you see that the majority of what we expect in improvement in profitability is coming from cost measures, in both actually in both clusters.
Not only value, but also in term the gross cluster. The volume and mix, and I would say almost first of all the mix, is because we are driving the evolution of the mix with the development in particular in electronics.
Overall, to be above 7% by '28. Now, the conversion in cash flow.
We are you see that this graph is continuing to talk about two metrics per se, but also the quality of the cash flow, i.e. The recurring cash flow.
Here, what we are aiming at is, in fact, a cash flow that is improving, more solid, and, actually, less cyclical. The expectation in '28 is that there will not be a contribution from working capital, which is still much smaller, but still the case in '25.
It comes it comes from the operating margin improvement by 100 basic points. It comes from investment clearly below 7%.
It comes from restructuring normalization. By '28, we will have completed the big wave of restructuring that we have to do, that we are underway, EU-Forward on one side, on the other side.
You will have, of course, the reduction of the financial costs, the reduction of the debt that we are doing in the meantime is, and the repatriation of cash, is improving our financial costs, and we expect to be clearly below €400 million by '28. Last, but not least, is normalization of tax.
I believe better after '28 on the tax profile, the tax the the tax will will be stable in value because the increase in operating margin is one thing, but the other side is the geography. Geographically speaking, we have countries in Europe, for instance, in which we are losing, to recover the situation in those ones is not, in fact, having the tax impact per se.
The focus is to have not only the 3.5% of net cash flow that we aim at for '28, but, in fact, what we call the recurring net cash flow going up between '25 and '28. In '25 is actually at 3%, and we expect to be, as the graph is showing it, in fact, above the 3.5% in '28.
Not only the value, but also the quality is what we are aiming at, so that we have a cash flow is more solid, more recurring, and more resilient to fluctuations that can happen in terms of volume or activity. Now, what does it mean in terms of capital allocation policy?
We aim for a solid financial structure, not only short term, but mid-term as a company, and this is the base on which we will do selective growth in in the domains in which we believe it it makes sense. The second, we remain committed to long term in capital return to shareholders.
There will be no dividend proposed on '26 in '26 on the results of '25, but we have clearly of the day, all the metrics and all the parties need to have the return. The the policy that we set ourselves is, in fact, to say dividend and share buybacks will take into account every year the group financial results, financial position, including the leverage.
As a as a bit of a conclusion for the overall financial framework, what will be FORVIA in '28? FORVIA in '28, you see your you see the numbers: sales, €22 billion at constant forex, the potential divestiture contemplates in in we could contemplate in the value cluster.
Means an organic growth of around 2% for the company over the period. Operating margin above 7%, between the two the the two clusters, and with a distribution of profit, I would say, more more spread.
A cash flow at 3.5%, but with a better quality, and lower financial costs, not counting on working capital contribution, and a leverage at 1.2 compared to the 1.7 that we have at the end of '25 and the 1.5 that we have that we expect at the end of '26. In summary, a more solid, a more resilient company, in full capacity to seize the opportunities that we presented this morning, in particular in electronics and in seating, the rigorous financial discipline this industry requires.
On this note, I leave it back to Martin for conclusion.
Martin Fischer
Thank you, Olivier. Quick conclusion before we get into Q&A again.
Ignite is a very clear and step-by-step path to success. We drive what matters now and unlock what's next.
It has the three elements: best-in-class performance. Here, it is about disciplined profit generation, cash, the leverage, and deleveraging of the company.
We reinforce the foundations, right? You heard from Olivier about the quality that we put into our operations and beyond, that is going to drive that reinforced performance we need.
Then second, we have business transformation. We do that with utmost discipline and focus.
You heard about the value cluster and the growth cluster, and we are very disciplined in putting the businesses in there and capitalize suite. It is important that where we play, we lead.
It's not about the sheer size, but it's about scaling in our successful activities. Then last not least, invigorating our culture.
It is about accountability and empowerment. We want to do and make decisions at the right level of the organization, at the point of business and use, and that will develop agility and the power.
Personally, I'm very confident that Ignite is going to deliver sustainable growth and the financial results our investors are looking for, with that, a good long-term value that we are going to generate for FORVIA. Thank you very much for your attention this morning.
We now build the stage for Q&A.
Operator
We will start from questions from the room. For those joining remotely, feel free to submit your questions in the chat by clicking on the upper right corner button Q&A, or via the conference call by pressing star and one.
When you speak, kindly introduce yourself with your name and please limit yourself to a maximum of three
Stephen Reitman
questions. I'm Stephen Reitman from Bernstein, over here.
A question about China and about, I guess, working capital. Could you comment on what the developments you've been observing in terms of payment terms in China?
Have there been changes? Have the government regulations had a material impact in terms of shortening terms and times, and is that having a positive impact as you're obviously increasing your exposure to the Chinese OEMs?
Secondly, I guess, a question on lighting. Obviously, you moved it into the value category.
To what extent does this reflect the SDV move, the sense that the total value of those units you're selling has moved from modules, complex modules, to more components? Other parts of the business that face that kind of pressure as well.
You talked about maybe moving toward volume strategy on the lighting side. Is that to compensate as well for this reduction in value per part, also?
Thank you.
Martin Fischer
All right, Steve. Let's get started then on China and the working capital.
We have not seen much of a change happening on that front, and at the same time, we are very consistent on how we handle working capital between the customer side and on the supplier side, we don't get into a position, but we translate pretty much the terms that we get from customers to the suppliers. Then second question on lighting, very good question.
How is the value generated in lighting products? We still see additional value in new products.
We have traditionally been strong in headlamps and rear lamps. You now see a complete new suite coming up of car body lighting solutions.
One of our showcases is the new BMW iX3, where you have that beautiful fascia, right, certainly with the headlamps, but with many more lighting elements. That is a trend that benefits.
You are also right when you say, how is it modularizing? How is it getting to be more standardized?
Let's go back to a headlamp. Yes, we have very strong light modules that are getting platforms, we can scale volume with that.
That's another trend we face. Peter taking over, that's something when we want to go into the volume segments, where that platforming becomes more and more important.
Peter Laier
Besides platforming, because you talked about SDV, yes, you're right, some functionality will move from lighting electronics onto the centralized EE architecture, but it moves directly on the modular systems where we, with our zonal modules, will play a role as well, it's more a shift of value from here to there.
José Asumendi
It's José Asumendi, over here. Thank you very much.
A few questions, please. Just back to lighting, can you explain a bit better or just go through the concept again of how to unite lighting?
Is it growth across some of the regions? Is it cost-saving actions and how do you capture that growth, maybe in China as well?
Second, on cost savings for the group level, what are the key actions to drive margins higher? Cost savings was the biggest bucket in your profit bridge.
Just give us some examples of that. Then three, Clarion, what are the levers also to improve the profitability and is this division also potentially for sale or is this a division that is protected?
Martin Fischer
All right. Good questions, Jose.
Thank you. Let's go in this sequence that you posted them, and, Peter, maybe you're going to comment on the opportunities that you see in lighting in terms of cost improvements, and was also an element of China coming in for lighting.
Peter Laier
I think there are different things we focus on. On the one side, in lighting, for sure, we have a performance optimization program ongoing.
You heard already about the Simplify program or our European focus program, which we call Eagle, which is about to start and it's ongoing. It's focusing on operational improvement, R&D improvement, efficiency improvement, all those classical things, classical improvement programs.
In addition, Martin already talked about that we will work more on the design, working on platforms and with that have the capability to step into the volume segment. We want to realize growth in China, and China growth can only happen specifically with Chinese OEMs if you work in China for China.
That means local R&D, local operation, local sourcing, empowerment of the local organization, and all of that in Chinese speed.
Martin Fischer
Jose, I would come to your second question. How do you get to cost savings, right, and better results therefore?
We talked about the two big EU-Forward, that's taking cost out; same thing for Simplify, where we are seeing significant potentials for fixed cost, and that's also what Olivier had in his bridge to highlight how much more potential there is. Want to reiterate on the Simplify target, we are shooting for €110 million in cost reduction by 2028, and we're going to see a first impact now in 2026.
Want to already make it to 40% of that savings potentials, or push that allow for the first 40% to gear. Then I think it was also important, Olivier, maybe you want to look a little bit deeper into operations and how do we drive performance, how do we drive productivity in that area?
Olivier Lefebvre
Yes, the first one is to continue what I explained on the FES system. By deploying we have a very clear link between the compliance to our system and the profitability of our plants, which I think looks obvious because if you apply all the best practice, you deliver better.
We concentrate to put all our plants on the right corner I explained. The second one, smart automation, everywhere we can, with a short payback.
We have also all the actions we do on our supply chain, mixing on one side very cost-effective, but also the maximum resilience we can deliver. We are working also actively on our transportation cost because when we reduce transportation cost, we gain on our cost firstly, we gain on our Scope 3, and also this is helping to drive plants.
These are, we say, major actions we have launched on the top of our digital transformation and AI that I explained before.
Martin Fischer
Jose, you had one more question on Clarion. The results in 2025 already show that we are substantiating the performance into a much better space, and this has worked on two levels.
We have also for Clarion the organization. We figured out that for a €1.4 billion business, there was too much matrix happening, we're taking that out.
That helps. Then the other piece in the R&D space, where we have to create software platform that can serve various customers, cannot be too individual in all these developments.
I mentioned earlier, we look for partnerships in that field, that we can reduce, on various levels of software, our own efforts. That's going to drive profitability.
Christoph Laskawi
Hi, Christoph Laskawi, Deutsche Bank. I'd like to start on disposals, further disposals, or potential for that.
Coming a bit back to what Thomas asked initially in the first Q&A, if we think about the size outlined, it could fit, for example, Clarion, that you just also highlighted can improve margins. What is your strategy for those disposals?
Would it be an entire division, could it be just smaller stuff? If we think about Clarion, is that already fully carved out?
I would think it is, so that would make it easier to relatively quickly sell. Looking at LCS, another fit, the size, I think it's rather unlikely because of the ownership structure, if you could comment on that.
Second question would be for seating. There is obviously currently a trend ongoing to reshore production into the US, which probably puts East Asian a little bit of an advantage relative to your industrial footprint right now.
How do you cope with that? How are you competing with them?
Both Alien and India, again, are relatively outspoken to gain share currently. Then lastly, just on electronics, obviously, quite impressive growth.
Could you comment on the regions that are driving that, and is there any margin difference within electronics? Is there a mix effect mostly in the improvement, or is it simply operating leverage on scale?
Thank you.
Martin Fischer
All right. Thanks, Christoph.
Three strategic questions. Let's get started with the disposals.
Right now, the full attention goes to the intended divestiture of interiors, and I think what got us to that point, there's strategic consideration to really strengthen the portfolio, but there's also the need for the cash that we bring the debt down. Once we do that interiors, plus we continue on our good organic deleveraging, we have a little bit less of a pressure than before.
When you look now to that 2028 horizon and reserved for €1 billion of divestitures, it's not top priority right now. Across time, we will see what qualifies, what can be done, where are interested buyers.
Far too early to speculate on one business over the other that could qualify for those divestitures.
Olivier Lefebvre
€1 billion in sales, just to tame down any expectation.
Martin Fischer
Very true, €1 billion in sales. Good.
Then let's go to seating. You said, hey, what's new in the US, right, with the push from the administration to do more locally and all competitors pushing into that market?
Sébastien, to say how we're competing.
Sébastien Limousin
I confirm that North America is really a strategic pillar for us for our growth, especially in the US. We rely, of course, on our footprint, but as well on our industrial performance, which is really improving.
We work specifically on automation in the US to further reduce our cost, and I want to share with you one success. FORVIA Group announced the win of a major contract in North America, more than €1 billion with a European OEM, and seating as a big part of this win.
Clearly, the US remains a clear strategy for us and a clear priority.
Martin Fischer
The third question, Christoph, was on electronics, and we have significant growth there. Yes, they are global in nature, and when you think through some of the products that Peter explained, it's very important that we go global and scale.
Remembering back the zonal modules, where it all starts from a little chip, from an ASIC that we design, that has a lot of IP, a lot of know-how, enables the upscaling into the full zonal computer. All this lives from volume, and that's why we are targeting the global market with all these products.
Peter, I'm sure you have a couple of more thoughts on that as well.
Peter Laier
At first, the growth will basically happening balanced worldwide. We have a specific focus on Asia, China, India, Japanese, and Korean OEMs, and on North America.
The scaling, for sure, that comes with the localization of manufacturing, which we are targeting for, and you asked about margin distribution that will be balanced somehow across the region.
Emmanuel Chevalier from Banco Itaú. I wanted to ask regarding the Latin America region.
I think it has not been mentioned within the presentation this morning, and I was wondering if it's still a strategic hub for the group, and if yes, to what extent, please?
Martin Fischer
In that region, we operate by about a billion euro, and it's a very fine region for us, both in terms of development of the business. It's also a profitable business that we enjoy.
We are very present with all the various business groups, and in the best spirit of Ignite Culture, we empower that team very much to serve the local market with all its specificities, right, with that ever wave of inflation and so on. A very capable team who drives that business.
Here and there, we even develop specific technical solutions to serve the specific market needs, we are definitely holding on to that. It's valuable.
Hi,
Vanessa Jeffriess
Vanessa from Jefferies. I was wondering if you could just talk about the commercial vehicle growth strategy you have and what have been the barriers to growing that in the past?
Martin Fischer
Good question. Barriers, I would not have even seen.
It was just not a really strong focus of the group. Now 2, 3 years ago, we started realizing that's really an opportunity, and we go business group by business group to develop.
I would say it's even more established, Peter, already on the HELLA side. You want to talk to that a little bit, and I'll pick it up for FORVIA again.
Peter Laier
In HELLA, it is under Lifecycle Solutions. It's a sub-business group where we are already strong in lighting in some areas and where we develop further now in electronics.
Radar, as well, commercial vehicles will go in the direction of these new EE architectures, and that provides for us a new growth opportunity to step in.
Martin Fischer
Good, and we heard from Sébastien earlier this morning what that means for seating, and there's other business groups where we now prepare the respective product lines and an organizational setup to serve these customers full swing. Then
Vanessa Jeffriess
I don't want to detract from the great opportunities you've presented today, but it's interesting a lot of your peers are talking about the non-automotive opportunities, like data centers and defense, etc., and you're maybe the only one who isn't. Why have you chosen to go that route?
Martin Fischer
We are in phase one of Ignite, and that's all about focus and strength, and that's what we do these days. We have a lot of opportunity both on the cost side, also in growing with our core, so that's where we want to focus.
We are not ignoring those spaces, but we look at them really for adjacencies. We are testing into fields like defense, where we say, hey, does technology translate good in that new sector?
If it's adjacent enough, we consider it, but we are not going to go into big investment that right now we cannot afford, and that's where we stay. We focus and we strengthen who we are today.
We get to lead and grow, right, and have the financial flexibility for that as well, then those fields are relevant for us, too. Then,
Vanessa Jeffriess
lastly, you're highlighting the success you're seeing in China with your development times. I feel like we've heard this a lot for the last couple of years from all of your peers.
What are the barriers to doing that still? Would your customers say it's you guys and you guys would say it's customers?
Martin Fischer
I would say it's our customers and us who have to break through. Because over decades and decades and decades, we have developed a very solid way to do automotive business together, but it is, in all frankness, also a very slow way of doing business together.
Right now, Vanessa, I really sense a good motivation, particularly from the Chinese market, that makes OEMs and us Tier 1 suppliers, FORVIA, get closer together to really tackle it. This is discussion today in the management board rooms, where on the highest levels we say, how can we bring an innovation much faster here in Europe, in North America as well?
It's going to be a leadership act, right? We have to influence very positively our organization to step up to get to that speed we need to be globally competitive.
Thomas Besson
Thomas Besson again. I'd like to go back to my initial question.
Can you explain what's going to grow in '27? '26 is the third year of revenue decline, revenue decline versus production accelerates in '26, and can you explain how you can grow and maintain a limited CapEx at the same time and confirm that you don't plan any more cost-saving plan after 2028, which I find a bit surprising, because usually there's always a saving plan in this business?
Seating, you've explained that commercial vehicle was becoming possible. It was impossible before.
Can you explain what has changed, because before we were told it was a too small market, it was different types of seats, there were not enough seats in the trucks and this kind of things. Then why don't you do a seat for aircraft?
They are more technical, and it's also adjacent to some extent. Maybe it's for the next phase of the plan.
Can you explain if you have had any wins with Renault because I haven't seen that. You've talked about it, and I haven't seen it.
They tend to be quite integrated, or they used to be integrated in seating. Lastly, maybe for Olivier, in '25, you still had three underperforming businesses: interior that is going out, but it's still going in '26, Clarion, and lighting.
What was common between these three businesses? Accidentally industrially in the US, is there any execution issue?
Is there any reason for selling interior and keeping the other two underperforming businesses? Thank you.
Martin Fischer
All right, that's a mouthful. That's three times three questions, Thomas.
I'll give the best to keep us all organized around that. When you start on order intake, and how are we going to return to growth in 2027?
That's exactly what's happening. We are going to benefit from the order intake that's going to push growth forward.
When you see what really holds us back end of last year, early into this year, it's predominantly that customer mix that we have seen in China. This is now booked forward from there.
In terms of CapEx limitations, how can we keep that in check in spite of the growth? You'll see how we reduced CapEx in 2025, and we announced that we will be returning to a certain degree, but keep it clearly below 7%.
I think that describes and outlines very well the range we have to maneuver and how we are going to allow for that additional growth. Then you asked also, hey, how about future restructuring?
We can't believe it's all open, and all ended in 2028. What we translate into the plan is that in 2025 we really had the peak in cost.
Now the cash is going to come after, and from here, we are tapering off. I would say €100 million of restructuring cost in a given year is probably the level we are going to sustain, but you know that we are coming out of times now with €400 million a year.
Good, then seating, what's different? What's new?
Why now commercial vehicles, Sébastien?
Sébastien Limousin
Why it's possible now is because we have developed a complete new set of seats dedicated to this market. The technical requirements are different, for suspension, and we have developed new solutions both in-house and with partnership, and now we are able to address this market.
We have already major contracts entering into production in 2027. It's explaining as well our growth after 2026 because it's entering into production, and we really grow now significantly.
Our strength is that we are able to combine the new product with our comfort and wellness solutions we have developed for passenger cars. That's why now we are going very fast in this market.
We are not planning to expand to aircraft. Aircraft technical requirements are completely different, volumes as well, no in this field.
Japanese and Korean OEMs, so, yes, we are growing. I did not mention it, but we won contracts with Korean OEMs, both in Korea and outside, and in Japan with Japanese OEM, we are building a new plant in Japan.
Martin Fischer
Good, and last not least, Thomas, you had a question on Clarion, lighting, interiors. Are there any patterns, right, for performance that we want to improve?
I would give three characteristics: On Clarion, we talked about overstructure and too high R&D cost. On the lighting front, I think, Peter, it's fair to say we suffer from capacities we had built for a much stronger European market, when we were still in the 20 million vehicle range, not at 15 million, we got to get that out of the capacity.
On the interiors side, yes, as you're all well aware, we did have operational struggles in North America in the last 2 years, and Olivier, you described very well how systematically we have tackled these to fix that, and you also mentioned a number in terms of margin improvement that we have seen. There's not that common pattern, but three cases where we have to act individually.
Ross MacDonald
Yes, thank you. Ross MacDonald at Citi.
Three questions. Olivier, firstly, on cash flow, it'd be interesting to push a little bit more on dividends and buybacks.
I think the consensus for '26 has a small dividend in there. Just be curious how you think about KPIs for moving back towards cash returns, how you think about the mix between dividends and buybacks when we get there, and then linked to that, if you'd do dividend on EPS or if you consider thinking more about holistically the cash generation and using any surplus for buybacks and dividends?
Second one, on electronics, linked to Christoph's question, maybe in a different way, obviously, it is a growing part of the order book. Specific platforms within there, any customers?
You mentioned it's diversified by region, but for that growth to crystallize, are there any specific OEM SDV platforms that we should really focus on? Final question is a big one.
It's specifically on AI. You've talked a lot about AI benefits.
I think it's fairly obvious that suppliers can get the R&D down, and that's a huge opportunity. How do you think about holding on to those savings, because, obviously, AI can be deflationary.
How do you make sure you retain those AI P&L savings? Then linked, what should we think about EU R&D headcount in the group?
Steady state, because a lot of the R&D expense is, of course, labor expense. Final point on this, you talk about restructuring costs normalizing in 2028.
If these AI tools are as good as we're led to believe, how realistic is that? Can you maybe remind us level of cash out restructuring for a steady state?
Thank you.
Olivier Durand
I think for the timing, it's getting a restoration of the balance financial structure. I think to be clear, the recommendation of the management and then discussed in the board and recommended by the board to shareholders for the '25 results, I think, is fairly obvious.
We need to have our balance sheet fully restored, and this is not yet the case. We are on a good trajectory, but we need to get to 1.5, and we need to have the closing of interior.
Now, going afterwards, I would say having all the metrics being back in place, and it will be an individual decision with the board every year taking into account not only net income and EPS, but also the actual financial and if I may, the context externally. I think it's a cautious policy, and I think for the time being, this is what we should stay on.
Now on share buyback, if and when we are at this situation, probably we will look at both elements. We know perfectly that the operation when fair amount of dilution back in June '22, we have this consideration as well so that effective way for having a return to shareholders, and it can be either of.
Martin Fischer
Good, Ross. Second question was about electronics.
Are there any specific vehicle platforms, customers, we talk to? Peter, where are we?
Peter Laier
As I mentioned in my presentation, we have somehow the expectations that 60% of the vehicles produced in 2030 will be on these new platforms. Actually, and I announced that we have €1.5 billion already sales in our booked order books.
Those bookings are coming mainly from European OEMs. We are now talking with North American and Asian OEMs about the same, in the future, that will be distributed.
Due to the fact that these new EE architectures will be so much more efficient and needed for software-defined vehicles, it's not a specific platform any longer. All OEMs are moving step-by-step now in this direction.
Martin Fischer
Good. Then question around AI: How do we generate these savings, and, important to you, how do we hold on to these savings, right?
Then probably there's an attachment of a fourth question as well. What does that mean to R&D forces?
Olivier, maybe you give the AI piece a shot.
Olivier Durand
As I explained, we focus a lot on digital first: data, real-time, and now we know empower our data and how to boost performance through that in our plants or in our development by the return of data and experience. What we have launched is a very pragmatic AI scaling, and all four are in what we call the AI Transformation Studio.
We have a monthly review where our team members are presenting their project, and we finance them then month after month. I think it's clearly answering your question, that means we first scale the project, on short payback, having the KPI to monitor the payback, and then we launch the full investment for the project.
It's why we start by 30 agents, which is our first, but with this studio, we really want to be acting as our strategy to really leverage our end-to-end processes, and step-by-step, generalize the AI, but on a very pragmatic way.
Martin Fischer
To your last point, what does that mean now in structuring and possibly continued restructuring? You remember Project Simplify is something where we work into our overhead structures, into the SG&A at large, and a good part of those savings will rely, in fact, on artificial intelligence.
We go through our processes end-to-end, of the processes, and then bring AI to work after that. When we talk about the savings of Simplify, but also the restructuring office efforts that we have quantified as €150 million round about, that's already part of AI effects that you can see in these numbers as well.
Olivier Durand
Maybe just to make sure that the understanding of normalizing, it does not mean no restructuring, it's the envelope that we are considering is €100 to €130 million cash out of restructuring, because new technologies, new processes, the mobility of the activity. It's not when I mentioned normalizing is normalizing compared to the big wave we have done, but it's not assuming that there will be nothing to do in '28.
Operator
Is there any question left in the room before we move to the chat? Yes, one last question.
Michael Foundoukidis
Oddo. Two last questions on my side.
First, we talked a lot about Chinese OEMs, but what about suppliers? We see more, notably in electronics, but not only, in lighting, for example, and not only in China, but elsewhere and in Europe.
What's their behavior in terms of commercial policies, this kind of things? That's the first question.
Second one, still on electronics and following up previous ones, what's your view on where legacy OEMs stand on SDV? You see them as more stabilized in terms of specifications, meaning that the risk of further delays is more limited than before, and how do you assess that, and what would be the possible impacts on your ambition in this business?
Thank you.
Martin Fischer
Let's start with the Chinese market and competitors that we have certainly in the Tier 1 space. Game for the last couple of years across the range of and for us, it means we have to play strong, which we do.
It starts, first of all, with our local-for-local or the empowered Chinese team, where, from innovation over R&D to manufacturing, supply chain, sourcing, everything is deeply localized. That way, we are competitive.
What always keeps setting us apart is that extra piece of innovation and innovation speed. We deal with that part of the competition.
When I started in March last year, we were in China together, and I challenged our Chinese team. I said, "Hey, we'll be back end of the year.
I want you to innovate locally. I want you to innovate to the needs of the market here."
Then in November, we went back as the management board, as the Executive Committee, and we could look at 30 brand-new processes and products that got innovated there. The speed from that innovation to really the car, you saw that with the example massage, right?
That's quick. Beat our engine over there really competitions.
Then on the electronics side, where do the conventional OEMs stand? Still on the way, and they are on the way.
With what Peter described in terms of the more centralized architectures and zonal architectures now, that's becoming stronger and stronger with quite a few of the Western, established OEMs. If that transition into new electronics architectures and software structures is really mandatory and the recipe for finally success in that direction, playing software-defined vehicle in an old electronics electrical architecture is just not working.
That's why we are now playing on that trend so hard of zonal computers, because it's taking off.
Peter Laier
You're right, some OEMs in the Western world struggled for some period of time a little bit with those new architectures, but that is stabilizing now, and I think we can support them with our know-how in the areas I mentioned. Imagine what that means for us as a company.
If the value-add is concentrated on domain and zonal modules, and we are going into this zonal modules with our one-stop shop solution, that's providing another growth opportunity when all the OEMs now step-by-step go in this direction.
Operator
We will move on to the questions in the chat. The first question is coming from Marco.
Thank you for your time and presentation. Do you expect any risk for the group in terms of operations following the disposal of this business, regarding plants, tech, or IT?
It's coming from Jean-Luc Cayla from APG. In view of deleveraging having priority, can we rule out FORVIA buying out the minority shareholders in HELLA before 2029?
Last questions, still from Jean-Luc Cayla from APG: With the expansion of possibilities in seating, for instance, zero-gravity, do you expect margins from passive safety systems, which have high margins, moving into the seats?
Martin Fischer
All right, three strong questions. Risk from the intended interiors divestiture, that's the right question to ask.
Those risks are limited. As part of our choice, why do we divest from interiors?
One consideration is it's a pretty independent business. OEMs source interiors business separate from seating, there is no interaction between these businesses first of all.
Then when it comes to really operational carve-out, dedicated plants for our interiors business. Only a very few minor, two or three plants where interiors would share space with other business groups, the carve-out can be pretty clean in that regard.
Of that point, we'll have a dedicated team that takes care and is going to mitigate any kind of risk that could come up. Then the second question regarding HELLA, and I think the question behind is, is FORVIA intentional about purchasing the remaining HELLA shares from minority investors?
This remains not to be one of our priorities. As you heard us say, we keep working in that setup that we have, we have found very good and safe processes to drive strategy, to drive synergies.
You see the new level, we have reached €400 million in synergies, so that is not one of our priorities. We will focus on the other elements where we strengthen our portfolio as discussed through Ignite today.
Then the last one, it's Sébastien, how our passive safety devices going to enter the seating space?
Sébastien Limousin
Indeed, we can see more and more contents in seating, especially in Asia, whether it's on safety or wellness and comfort. You mentioned zero-gravity.
Yes, it's a fact. We have an innovation, as I mentioned earlier, the SafeSeat60, where you can incline your seat while being in the safe condition, and this is pretty new, and these additional contents is generating for us additional revenue, and therefore, additional margin.
Martin Fischer
One addition. You heard we talk about partnership in various areas, and that passive safety, seating integration, we are partnering with Autoliv, we have a very strong firm by our side.
We, again, push and drive the trend there.
Operator
Thank you, everyone, in the room and offline. This is all the time we have for today.
The floor is back to you, Martin.
Martin Fischer
That brings us to a final statement on time. That's really, well, appreciated.
Maybe we can have the respective background here as well for a little summary. I think there's three key takeaways.
We got you through the Ignite story, and we spend quite some time and repetition, I won't do that. The three statements that I want you to leave with from that conference here is: FORVIA's performance is improved in a very strict and strong manner, and 2025 was a first year to prove that.
Second, in terms of portfolio, we are focusing on the most competitive assets where we have the strongest right to win, and that's what we want to scale, right? The third point, you take that together, there is a clear path, a growth trajectory on sound financial footings.
That's important, too. Those are my three key takeaways for you for that day, and I want to thank all of you for being here, and I truly enjoyed our very active dialogue.
All your questions were both financially oriented, but also very much strategy-oriented, and I hope we can drive that business forward together in that good sense. Then a big thank you to the FORVIA team as a whole for what was a powerful and effective year 2025, and then to all the thinkers and helpers who made that day possible.
It was a great effort, but it was also utmost important for us to convey where we want to drive FORVIA to. Thanks to not only the speakers, everybody behind the curtain as well.
You made it possible. With this, I invite everyone here in the room for lunch.
The area by now. Thank everyone on the phone and on the screen as well.
Thank you very much. See you for our next event.
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