Euroseas Ltd.

Euroseas Ltd.

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Nov 17Next Earn

Q3 FY2025 · Earnings Call TranscriptNovember 18, 2025

Operator

Thank you for standing by, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to Euroseas' conference call on the third quarter 2025 financial results. We have with us today Mr.

Aristides Pittas, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, and Mr. Tasos Aslidis, Chief Financial Officer of the company.

At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode. There will be a presentation followed by a question-and-answer session, at which time if you wish to ask a question, please press star one on your telephone keypad and wait for your name to be announced.

I must advise you that this conference is being recorded today. Please be reminded that the company announced their results with a press release that has been publicly distributed.

Before passing the floor over to Mr. Pittas, I would like to remind everyone that in today's presentation and conference call Euroseas will be making forward-looking statements.

These statements are within the meanings of the federal securities laws. Matters discussed may be forward-looking statements, which are based on current management expectations that involve risks and uncertainties and may result in such expectations not being realized.

I kindly draw your attention to slide number two of the webcast presentation, which has the full forward-looking statement. The same statement was also included in the press release.

Please take a moment to go through the whole statement and read it. Now I would like to pass the floor over to Mr.

Pittas. Please go ahead, sir.

Aristides Pittas

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and thank you for joining us today for our scheduled conference call. Together with me is Tasos Aslidis, our Chief Financial Officer.

The purpose of today's call is to discuss our financial results for the 3 and 9-month period ended September 30th, 2025. Please turn to slide 3 of the presentation for our quarterly financial results.

For the third quarter of 2025, we reported total net revenues of $56.9 million and a net income of $29.7 million, or $4.25 per diluted share. Adjusted net income for the quarter was $29.6 million, or $4.23 per diluted share.

Adjusted EBITDA for the period was $38.8 million. Please refer to the press release for a reconciliation of adjusted net income and adjusted EBITDA.

Tasos Aslidis will go over our financial highlights in more detail later on in the presentation. We are pleased to announce that our board of directors has declared another quarterly dividend of 70 cents per share for the third quarter of 2025, payable on or about December 16th to shareholders of record as of December 9th.

Based on current share price levels, the distribution reflects an annualized yield of approximately 5%. In addition, since launching our $20 million share repurchase plan in May 2022, we have repurchased 466,000 shares of our common stock in the open market for a total of approximately $10.5 million.

This plan was renewed in May 2025. We remain committed to utilizing this program thoughtfully and strategically, deploying it when appropriate to support and enhance long-term shareholder value.

Now, please turn to slide 4 where we review our recent developments, including updates on our sale and purchase activity, chartering progress, and operational highlights. During the third quarter, we completed the sale of motor vessel Marcos V for $50 million.

The vessel was delivered to her new unaffiliated owners on October 20th, and we recorded a net estimated gain of $9.3 million on the transaction. On the employment front, we extended the charter for motor vessel Jonathan P for a minimum of 11 months and up to 12 months at a daily rate of $25,000 per day.

The earliest redelivery under this contract is October 2026. Motor vessel Synergy Oakland was extended just yesterday for a further 36 months following the end of her current charter at $33,500 per day.

Finally, also yesterday, our 4 newbuildings, motor vessels Elena, Cielos, [Nikita D?] , and [Stephanos?]

CH, were chartered upon their expected deliveries in second half '27 and first half '28 for a firm period of 4 years at a daily rate of $35,500 per day, or a 5-year period at $32,500 per day at the charterers' option, which is declarable by November 2026. Turning on to operations, the motor vessel Emmanuel P successfully completed its scheduled drydocking, resulting in an off-hire period of approximately 39 days.

As part of this repair, we installed energy-saving devices that are expected to deliver fuel savings in excess of 20%. We experienced no idle or commercial off-hire time during the Q3.

Now, please turn to slide 5. Our current fleet on the water consists of 21 vessels of total carrying capacity of 61,000 TEU and an average age of about 12 years.

This includes 6 intermediate vessels with a combined carrying capacity of 25,500 TEU and an average age of around 17 years, as well as 15 feeder vessels with a combined carrying capacity of 35,600 TEU and an average age of 8.4 years. In addition, we have 4 intermediate vessels under construction, each with a capacity of 4,484 TEU.

Two of these are expected to be delivered in the second half of 2027, while the remaining 2 in the first half of 2028, adding a further 17,000 TEU of capacity to our fleet. On a fully delivered basis, our fleet will now grow to 25 vessels with a carrying capacity of approximately 78,300 TEU.

Please turn to slide 6 for a further update on our fleet employment. We continue to benefit from strong forward coverage, as you can see.

For the fourth quarter of 2025, 100% of our available days have already been secured and at an average rate of approximately $30,345 per day. Looking ahead in 2026, we have already covered 75% of our voyage days at an average rate of around $31,300 per day.

In 2027, this coverage stands at 52% at an even higher average rate of around $33,500 per day, and even in 2028, it stands at 30% at an average rate of around $35,500 per day. Our disciplined chartering strategy provides us with high visibility of future cash flows and will support our profitability within the next couple of years, even if the market was to correct heavily.

Moving on to slide 8, let's review the market highlights for the third quarter of 2025. Throughout the third quarter, 1-year time charters remained firm at elevated levels, supported by tight vessel supply and limited availability.

This environment encouraged charterers to secure forward cover early in the season. However, towards the end of the quarter, the freight market softened as concerns over oversupply and increased competition among carriers began to weigh on sentiment.

By late September, the Shanghai Containerized Freight Index had declined to its lowest level in nearly 2 years. However, during October and early November, we witnessed a stabilization and even a strong uptick by 30%.

The average secondhand price index rose by about 4.4% in the third quarter versus the second quarter, supported by limited vessel availability, geopolitical tensions, and strong buyer interest. Meanwhile, newbuilding prices remained stable quarter over quarter, with Korean and Japanese yards gradually increasing prices relative to Chinese yards.

Idle capacity continued to be practically nonexistent. Also, recycling activity remains subdued, with only 11 vessels totaling 6,000 TEU scrapped year-to-date.

Bangladesh scrap prices have dropped slightly to around $425 per lightweight ton. Overall, the global fleet has expanded by a significant 6% year-to-date.

Please turn to slide 9 for our broader market overview, focusing on the development of 6 to 12-month time charter rates over the past 10 years. The slide illustrates that charter rates across all major containership segments remain significantly elevated compared to their 10-year median levels.

This strong pricing environment continues to be supported by tight vessel supply, with ships still rerouting via the Cape of Good Hope, effectively soaking up significant capacity that would otherwise enter the market. Let's move to slide 10 to discuss the broader macroeconomic context and its impact on the container shipping market.

According to the IMF's latest World Economic Outlook published in October 2025, global GDP growth is projected to remain steady at 3.2% in 2025 and 3.1% in 2026. However, growth profiles across regions are diverging, with the US showing resilient growth and revised to the upside, and more subdued elsewhere.

US growth is projected at 2% in 2025 and 2.1% in 2026, a modest upward revision from earlier forecasts, reflecting smaller than expected effects from tariffs and more favorable financial conditions. In late October, the Federal Reserve reduced the target range for the federal funds rate by 25 basis points, bringing it to 3.75% up to 4%.

Chair Powell has not ruled out an additional rate cut at the December meeting, but has hinted that interest rates may remain on hold as inflation remains too high and while the labor market is cooling. It continues to show mixed signals.

The broader outlook remains fragile, with downside risks stemming from persistent uncertainty, potential protectionist measures, and ongoing labor market constraints. Among emerging markets, India is forecast to expand by 6.6% in 2025 and 6.2% in 2026, supported by strong domestic investments, resilient agricultural output, and a vibrant services sector.

The ASEAN-5 economies are also expected to post solid growth of around 4.2% in 2025 and 4.1% in 2026, underpinned by healthy regional demand and continued industrial activity. China's economic outlook is expected to remain positive, but at a decelerating pace.

Challenges include a widening gap between industrial supply and weak domestic demand, as well as ongoing trade tensions with the United States, including new tariffs on Chinese goods, export controls, and restrictions on high-tech goods. As a result, China's growth is projected to moderate to 4.8% in 2025 and 4.4% in 2026, reflecting a gradual slowdown following front-loaded exports and waning fiscal support.

Despite these domestic headwinds, the Chinese economy is still being supported by strong export performance to regions such as Southeast Asia and the EU, along with a still resilient manufacturing sector. We analyze global growth data carefully as it affects directly trade volumes as a whole.

Specific factors affecting trade create slight fluctuations around GDP growth. On containerized trade, Clarksons estimates demand growth for 2025 to expand by 3.2%, signaling a strong correlation with expected GDP growth.

Current forecasts, though, point to a dip to 0.7% growth in 2026 and a further decline of 6% in containerized trade growth in 2027. These expected declines largely reflect the unwinding of extraordinary rerouting patterns and temporary distortions that boosted volumes in prior years.

The influx of capacity recently ordered will probably at some point outpace demand growth, especially if geopolitical disruptions were to suddenly resolve and allow ships to return to shorter, more efficient routes. Turning on to slide 11, where you can see the total fleet age profile and containership orderbook.

The top left chart depicts a containership fleet that is relatively young, with most vessels under 15 years old and only 12% of the fleet over 20 years old. The top right chart shows the new deliveries as a percentage of the existing fleet, which are projected at 6.9% for 2025, 5.1% for 2026, and 8.3% for 2027, with actual fleet growth expected to be slightly lower due to slippage and future demolition activity.

The bottom chart shows that the orderbook continues to increase rapidly, reaching approximately 22% of the fleet as of November 2025. Turning on to slide 12, we go over the fleet age profile and orderbook only for ships in the 1,000 to 3,000 TEU range, which is quite a difference from the overall picture.

As of November 2025, the orderbook for vessels below 3,000 TEU stands at a modest 8.1% of the fleet. According to Clarksons, deliveries in this size range remain limited, with newbuilding additions projected at only 2.1% of the fleet in 2025, followed by 2% in 2026, 3.4% in 2027, and 2.7% in 2028 and beyond.

About half of the fleet is over 15 years old, making them likely candidates for scrapping when the market corrects. Let's move to slide 13 now to see the supply outlook for the 3,000 to 8,000 TEU segment, the other subsegment in which we currently operate.

As of November 2025, the orderbook stands at 12% of the fleet, a modest level compared to the larger mainline classes. Meanwhile, the age profile of this segment is notably advanced, with 27% of vessels over 20 years old and another 38% between 15 and 19 years.

With a limited newbuilding pipeline, net fleet growth in this segment is expected to remain contained, if not become negative over the next few years. Moving on to slide 14, this chart places those dynamics and perspectives across the entire containership sector.

What stands out is the concentration of newbuilding activity in the larger vessel classes. Neo-Panamaxes and post-Panamaxes vessels show orderbooks representing 40% to nearly 80% of their existing fleets, reflecting the significant capacity being added to the mainline trades.

By contrast, the feeder and intermediate segments have significantly smaller orderbooks, ranging from just 4% to 12% depending on size, even though a substantial portion of these fleets, between 20% and 40%, are already more than 20 years old. This widening gap between newbuilding activity in the large vessel segments and the limited replacement in smaller segments highlights why our core fleet remains structurally well positioned with minimal risk of oversupply.

Now, please turn to slide 15. Turning to the container sector outlook, conditions across the container shipping sector remain mixed.

Time charter rates continue to hold firm, supported in part by Red Sea rerouting, even as the Shanghai Containerized Freight Index has steadily declined. Overall, charter rates remain near historic highs due to limited near-term supply and steady demand across most vessel sizes.

In 2026, US trade policy and broader geopolitical developments will be key drivers of trade volumes and route patterns. Recent tariff agreements, raising it from 10% to 50%, have provided some short-term stability, but uncertainty around US-China relations persists.

Q3 2025 was an epitome of this uncertainty. The US imposed port fees on Chinese-owned, controlled, or built ships, only for China to reciprocate, and then, within days, both these fees were put on ice following discussions between Mr.

Trump and Mr. Xi in China at the end of October.

Additionally, the recent ceasefire between Israel and Hamas suggests a potential easing of disruptions in the Red Sea, but shipping companies are adopting a cautious wait-and-see stance, with no immediate rerouting witnessed yet. In 2027, and on the back of the increased containership ordering, even for smaller vessels, if demand in tons or ton-miles doesn't surprise on the upside, the market may enter into a more challenging phase.

Regarding energy transition, while it continues to be an important factor in the balance of container trade, the recent non-approval of the IMO's net-zero framework has inevitably slowed the process substantially. Arguably, the proposal was overambitious, as technical targets and economic hurdles were anyway unsurmountable.

Nevertheless, the process of transitioning to new, more environmentally friendly fuels will continue, but hopefully in a more disciplined and realistic manner. Let's turn now to the last slide of this section, slide 16.

The left-hand graph shows the cycle of the 1-year time charter rate for 2,500 TEU containerships over the past 10 years. As of November 14th, 2025, the 1-year time charter rate stands at $35,750 per day, well above both historical averages and medians.

This robust rate environment is mirrored in asset values as well. Newbuilding vessels are now valued at $45 million compared with a 10-year median of $35 million and an average of roughly $36 million.

Likewise, 10-year-old secondhand vessels are currently valued at $27 million, significantly higher than the 10-year median of $14 million and the average of about $20 million. In this environment, owners like us are generally reluctant to buy vessels at today's prices, unless these can be combined with charters which would bring the residual values down to more normalized prices.

It is proving, though, that quite a few charterers, fearing the potential loss of market share and, consequently, market relevance, are providing such charters to smaller newbuilding vessels, even with 2028 deliveries. Unfortunately, until this stops, we will continue to see the orderbook swelling, which obviously will eventually result in overcapacitating the market.

With that, I will pass the floor to our CFO, Tasos Aslidis, to go over our financial highlights in further detail.

Tasos Aslidis

Thank you very much, Aristides. Good morning from me as well, ladies and gentlemen.

Over the next five slides, I will give you my usual overview of our financial highlights for the quarter and the 9-month period of 2025, and compare them to the same periods of last year. For that, let's turn to slide 18.

For the third quarter of 2025, the company reported total net revenues of $56.9 million, representing a 5.1% increase over total net revenues of $54.1 million during the third quarter of last year. On a per vessel per day basis, our vessels earned a 10.7% higher average charter rate in the third quarter of this year compared to last year.

We reported a net income for the period of $29.7 million as compared to a net income of $27.6 million for the third quarter of 2024. Total interest and other financing costs for the third quarter of 2025 amounted to $3.7 million compared to $4.2 million for the previous year, a figure of the previous year that does not include imputed interest income of about $0.9 million, which is related to the self-financing of our pre-delivery payments for our newbuilding program.

This decrease is due to the lower interest rate we paid in the third quarter of this year compared to last for our debt. Adjusted EBITDA for the third quarter of 2025 increased to $38.8 million compared to $36.1 million achieved during the third quarter of 2024, again primarily due to the increase in revenues.

Basic and diluted earnings per share for the third quarter of 2025 were $4.27 and $4.25 respectively, calculated on about 7 million basic and diluted weighted average number of shares outstanding, compared to $3.97 and $3.95 basic and diluted respectively for the same period of last year. The adjusted earnings per share for the three quarters, for the 3-month period ended September 30th, 2025, would have been $4.26 and $4.23 basic and diluted respectively, adjusted for unrealized gains on derivatives, compared to adjusted earnings of $3.94 basic and $3.92 diluted for the same period of last year.

Let's now look at the numbers for the corresponding 9-month periods ended September 30th and and compare them. For the first 9 months of 2025, we reported total net revenues of $170.5 million, representing a 6.8% increase over total net revenues of $159.6 million that we earned during the first 9 months of last year, mainly as a result of the higher number of vessels we owned and operated and higher average earnings that we had.

We reported a net income for the period of $96.5 million as compared to a net income of $88.4 million for the first 9 months of last year. Total interest and other fine another financing costs for the first 9 months of 2025 amounted to $11.7 million, not including $0.1 million of imputed interest income, compared to $10.7 million for last year, again not including, in that case, $3.6 million of imputed interest income.

This increase is due to the increased amount of debt that we held on average during the respective 9-month period of this year compared to last, partly offset by the lower interest rates we paid. Adjusted EBITDA for the first 9 months of 2025 was $115.2 million compared to $102.9 million for the first 9 months of last year, a 12% increase.

Basic and diluted earnings per share for the first 9 months of this year were $13.90 and $13.84 respectively, calculated again on approximately 7 million basic and diluted weighted average number of shares outstanding, compared to basic and diluted earnings per share of $12.75 and $12.66 for the first 9 months of 2024, calculated again on on approximately the same number of shares, about 7.7 million. The adjusted earnings per share for the 9-month period ending September 30th of this year would be $12.25 basic and $12.19 diluted, compared to $11.57 basic and $11.49 diluted for the same period of 2024.

Let's let's now turn to slide 19 to review our fleet's performance. I will not go through the utilization rate figures, as I did in the previous calls, as they're all near near 100%, but I will move directly to discuss the rest of the table.

On average, in the third quarter of this year, 22 vessels were owned and operated, earning an average time charter equivalent rate of $29,284 per day, compared to 23 vessels that we operated in the third quarter of 2024, earning an average of $26,446 per day. Our total daily operating expenses, including management fees, G&A expenses, but excluding drydocking costs, were $7,246 per vessel per day during the third quarter of this year compared to $7,249 per vessel per day for the same period of 2024.

If we look further down on this table, we can see the cash flow breakeven levels, which take into account, in addition to the above expenses, the drydocking expenses, interest expenses, and loan repayments. Thus, for the third quarter of 2025, our daily cash flow breakeven level was $13,073 per vessel per day compared to $13,629 per vessel per day for the same period of last year.

Below the breakeven line, you can see our dividend distribution expressed in dollars per vessel per day basis, and for the third quarter of this year it amounted to $2,410 compared to $2,013 for the same period of 2024. Let's move now to discuss similar figures for the 9-month period, skipping again the discussion on the utilization rates.

We can report that we owned and operated an average of 22.6 vessels during the first 9 months of 2025, earning an an average time charter equivalent rate of $28,735 per day, compared to 21.3 vessels that we owned and operated in the same period of 2024, earning on average $28,624 per vessel per day. Our operating expenses, again including management fees and G&A expenses, averaged $7,386 during the first 9 months of 2025 compared to $7,452 per vessel per day for the same period of last year.

Again, at the bottom of this table, you can see the breakeven level, the cash flow breakeven level, which includes, as we said, interest expenses, drydocking expenses, and loan repayments, excluding balloons, and that was $13,133 per vessel per day compared to $14,743 for the same period of last year. Finally, I will not go through it, there is the dividend that we paid in the 9 months expressed on a dollar per day basis.

Let's now turn to slide 20. We introduce this slide this time around to provide a better perspective of the depth of our contract coverage, especially in light of the recent forward charters concluded that Aristides mentioned in the beginning of the presentation.

The table shown present the development of our fleet ownership days over the period of the next 3 years, 2026 to 2028, and an estimated breakdown of how many days are available for hire and how many days are already contracted. It incorporates assumption about delivery dates for vessels under construction, scrapping dates for older ships, estimate drydocking timing and duration, utilization rate assumption going forward, we use a quite conservative one of 98%, and estimates for contracted days and average contracted rate.

Please note that the data in this table is only estimates that we use for our modeling purposes for our future time charter equivalent revenues, and the actual figures will be different. Still, I hope this can provide some appreciation of our of our revenue and earnings visibility.

As Aristides mentioned earlier, our contract coverage currently stands 75% for 2026, 52% for 2027, and 29% for 2028. Average contracted rates are respectively $31,300, $33,500, and $35,500 for for each of the 3 years.

Here, if one makes an assumption about the average rate that our uncontracted days will earn, one can easily come up with an estimate of our overall revenues for the respective year. I hope this helps our investors and analysts that cover us in their own analysis of our future profitability.

Let's now move to slide 21 to review our debt profile. As of September 30th, 2025, our total outstanding bank debt stood at about $224 million with an average interest rate margin of about 2%, which, based on a 3-month SOFR rate of 3.87%, results in a cost of our debt of about 5.9%, which is well within the prevailing range for our segment and peers.

For the fourth quarter of 2025, we expect loan repayments of approximately $5.4 million with no balloon payments due in the remaining of the year, which accordingly will reduce our year-end balance. In 2026, scheduled loan repayments amount to approximately $19.5 million, again with no balloon payments during the year.

In 2027, we expect regular loan repayments of about $16.8 million together with a $20 million balloon payment, making total scheduled repayments for 2027 to approximately $36.8 million. Similarly, we can see in the table in the in the in the chart the scheduled payments for the period 2028 to 2030.

At the end of 2030, the remaining outstanding debt, assuming no balloon refinancing of our current debt, would be about $76 million. This schedule shown here does not include debt we expect to draw to finance the construction of our 4 newbuildings, debt which we estimate to be in the range of $140 to $150 million.

At the bottom of this slide, as always, we show our cash flow breakeven estimate for the next 12 months, broken down by its key components. On this basis, our total cash flow breakeven level for the next 12 months stands at approximately $12,000 per vessel per day, a level well below the earnings of our fleet.

Making the comparison with the other earnings of our feet of our fleet, one can really appreciate the cash flow generation potential that our vessels provide. To sum up our my presentation here, let's move to slide 22 to review some highlights from our balance sheet.

As of September 30th, 2025, cash, another cash, another current assets in our balance sheet total approximately $126.4 million. We had already made $35.9 million of advances for our newbuilding program, and we had also, on our asset side, the book value for our vessels, including Marcos V, which as of the end of the month was held for sale, which stood at about $512.5 million, for a total book value of our assets of about $675 million.

On the liability side, as I mentioned in the previous slide, we had debt amounting to $224 million, other liabilities for about $24 million, resulting in book shareholders' equity of roughly $427 million. However, the market value of our fleet, the charter-adjusted market market value of our vessels, is significantly higher than than their book value.

According to our latest estimates, our fleet is valued approximately $680 million, which translates into a net asset value for our company of about $595 million, or roughly almost $85 per share. With our last closing price and recent trading range of around $60 per share, our stock trades at at almost a 30% discount to its charter-adjusted net asset value.

With that, let me pass the floor back to Aristides to continue our call.

Aristides Pittas

Thank you, Tasos. Let me open up the floor for any questions you may have.

Operator

Thank you. If you would like to ask a question, please press star one on your telephone keypad.

A confirmation tone will indicate your line is in the question queue. You may press star two if you would like to remove your question from the queue.

For participants using speaker equipment, it may be necessary to pick up your handset before pressing the star keys. Our first question is from Mark Reichman with Noble Capital Partners.

Please proceed.

Thank you. There's just really two areas I wanted to focus on.

The first is, what are your expectations for the scheduled off-hire days for the fourth quarter and the remainder of 2026? If I look at your slide deck, it seems like that you're anticipating a very light drydocking schedule at least over the next 12 months.

Just a little clarity there would be appreciated.

Tasos Aslidis

I think this is correct. We have not many drydockings over the next 12 months.

Our likely off-hire for Q4 are, as in the previous quarter, almost zero. For modeling purposes, what I showed you on these new slides, 20, we use a 2% all-in off-hire just to model it, but typically we run our fleet at the north of 99% utilization rate.

Okay. If there were 39 days in the third quarter, do you think that the fourth quarter would be lower than that, if you've got zero, you don't have anything in the fourth quarter?

Tasos Aslidis

In terms of scheduled drydocks, I think we don't have any scheduled drydocks in the fourth quarter, on the top of my head. We have only some in-water surveys.

Oh, okay. Those surveys, I think in the third quarter the number of days came maybe in a little higher than what we were expecting, but we might have just had a special survey built in.

Do you think it would be greater than 5 or 10 days for the fourth quarter?

Tasos Aslidis

It's hard to say, but I would say not. Yeah.

Not even. In the third quarter we had Emmanuel P that underwent drydocking.

We have no scheduled drydock in the fourth, and the next scheduled drydock would be in the third quarter of next year, to the best of my understanding.

Okay. Thank you, Tasos.

The second area is, if containership ordering has accelerated even in the smaller sector, which could increase supply, you've mentioned that you think that could pressure rates from 2027 on. You're pretty well covered in 2027 with 52% locked in.

If we look at your slide 9 where you're showing kind of the rates and you can kind of see that the rates are above the average, and then if you take into consideration that the rerouting, if that kind of settles back, that you're kind of expecting maybe the potential for rates to decline into 2027, 2028. I wanted to focus on that slide 9 if I could, because I see the averages and the medians.

It seems to me median is pretty severe. I would probably look at it by taking the standard deviation of the rates and maybe putting a plus 1, minus 1 standard deviation around the average.

You're also looking at a kind of a time series here, and so if we're looking at different regime shifts, if you were to plant a flag in say 2020, what differences do you see in the market pre-2020 and maybe the last 10 years versus the next 10 years? I think you're looking at an aging fleet, you're looking at increasing environmental standards, obviously the fleet's going to get replenished.

Rates could probably go up based on the newer vessels, efficiencies could go down or could go up, as you've got more fuel-efficient vessels, your costs could come down. I was just kind of flesh that out a little bit in terms of your expectations, and are there differences in the overall market?

Is it too simplistic to kind of look at this slide from 2015 to 2025 and draw a conclusion, or are there some other factors that may have a bearing on rates going forward?

Aristides Pittas

The main reason why years 2015 to 2020 the markets were very low, as you can see, if we're looking at this decade, is that there was a huge orderbook, nearly 100%, back in 2007 and 2008 that got delivered. We had a huge oversupply of vessels, which was the reason why charter rates for between 2015 and 2020 were extremely low.

Then, of course, we had the pandemic with the consequent significant increase in ton-miles for vessels, which resulted in this huge boom that we witnessed during the pandemic. Then the market started to correct after the pandemic and rates dropped again to much more reasonable levels.

Then we had the war between Palestine and Israel, which closed the Suez Canal and resulted in the increase in the market that we have seen. These are the three main factors.

Of course, there's so many other things that play around that, but these are the three main factors where we are where we are. I don't think that we can see rates again as low as what we think we saw between '15 and '20, but with shipping you never know.

I don't think you can see that, also for one additional reason, that there has been quite significant inflation resulting in prices of newbuilding ships increasing substantially over the last 5 or 6 years. If newbuilding ships cannot become much cheaper, because then shipyards will be losing money, they place kind of a floor for secondhand values as well.

It's a very difficult equation, and it's extremely difficult to predict. That's why

Right. It's not unreasonable to expect that rates could be higher than say your average going forward.

It's never a dull day in the shipping market, there's probably bound to be some volatility. Looking ahead, you have a pretty good cost structure.

I don't know, I just extending this back to 2015 and anyway, that's very helpful. It provides a little perspective on the forward numbers.

Thank you.

Tasos Aslidis

It gives you a little bit of color on what has happened, but to predict what will happen is so much more difficult.

Yes. Right.

Tasos Aslidis

Another indication, Mark, of what the market thinks is the charters we just concluded. Obviously, and these were levels we've seen in the market, the market believes that the $35,000 per day roughly that we booked our ships for the 4,400 TEU plus is a level that would be okay to lock yourself in for 4 years 2 years out from now.

That might be an indication that the 54 might be, this is a market opinion, I guess, our counterpart opinion, willing buyer, willing seller type of thing, that might provide some other insights, I guess.

Right. No, that's a very good point, Tasos.

Thank you very much.

Tasos Aslidis

You're welcome, Mark.

Aristides Pittas

Thank you.

Operator

Our next question is from Tate Sullivan with Maxim Group. Please proceed.

Tate Sullivan

Hi. Thanks.

You gave a lot of good descriptions on why you're willing to book your newbuilds well forward, at a longer timeline to delivery than mostly almost all your other newbuilds, I think. Can you talk the charterers' willingness to book the ships that far forward?

Is it to avoid sudden spikes in the market, like they had post-COVID? Would love to hear your thoughts on that, please.

Aristides Pittas

As we said, the fleet of the ships below 6,000 TEU is a very old fleet, right? 25% is older than 20 years, 50% is older than 15 years.

They are seeing this aging fleet in the smaller sizes, and the charterers are competing amongst them to have those ships, because they know that these ships are needed to, trade is increasing continuously, the big ships get filled, but then you need the smaller ships to do the regional trades. I think they are seeing this potential lack of ships and are rushing to secure tonnage.

Tate Sullivan

Do you get any market indications if they're willing to book such long-term contracts that they have dormant vessels that are sitting in ports waiting for voyages at all in the current market?

Aristides Pittas

No, the current market

Tate Sullivan

Even though you continue to get paid.

Aristides Pittas

Yeah. No, the current market is a market of full employment.

There might be some delays and some waiting times, small waiting times occasionally, due to the various reroutings that are happening, but no, the market is full.

Tate Sullivan

Okay. Thanks.

The news and commentary echoes some recent news in the sector too. Tasos, remaining newbuild commitments for the new ships, four new ships.

I think you gave what you have already funded, is your remaining commitment about $200 million? Is that fair, newbuild on the four?

Tasos Aslidis

Yes, correct. I think the contracted price is in total approximately $240 million, and as I mentioned, we have made payments amounting to about $36 million or so, roughly $200 million are remaining to be paid.

Then

Tate Sullivan

maybe one installment payment every an installment payment every year or two every year? What

Tasos Aslidis

I think the next payment is when there is the steel cutting, which should be about 12 months roughly before the delivery of the ship. Middle of next year we'll start making additional 10% payments.

There would be I think three more 10% payments before the final payment.

Tate Sullivan

Okay. All right.

Thank you both.

Tasos Aslidis

You're welcome, Tate.

Operator

Our next question is from Clement Mullins with Value Investor's Edge. Please proceed.

Clement Mullins

Hi, good afternoon, and thank you for taking my questions. Most has already been covered, but I wanted to delve a bit into your fleet positioning.

You have a clearly bifurcated fleet between legacy and modern tonnage. Considering you recently fixed four newbuilds on order at solid rates, is there any appetite to order additional tonnage alongside long-term contracts, or are you comfortable with your current positioning?

Aristides Pittas

There is always the possibility to order something. We are looking at various possibilities.

I don't know if something will develop or not, but obviously having secured these last four vessels gives us significant safety and comfort to look at potentially doing something more.

Clement Mullins

Makes sense. Thanks for the color.

Final question from me. Pro forma for the sale of the Marcos V, and even when including the CapEx on the newbuilds, you're sitting in a solid financial position.

Is there a medium-term leverage target you plan to meet going forward, or is it, let's say, a moving target?

Aristides Pittas

We don't have a fixed target, definitely, but generally our strategy is to have leverage around 50%, and we move, 10, 15% above or 10, 15% below depending on circumstances and time in the market. We believe that a decent leverage, in a business that is making more than 6%, which is our cost of debt, it makes sense to have some leverage if you can earn more than 6 6%, which is what we believe that historically we do.

On the other hand, we never want to be too exposed, because we know what happens in a bad market, and we've lived through bad markets throughout our careers. We don't want to over-leverage.

I think that gives you guidance about our general leverage strategy.

Clement Mullins

That's helpful. I'll turn it over.

Thank you for taking my questions.

Aristides Pittas

Thanks, Clement.

Clement Mullins

Thank you.

Operator

Our final question is from Poe Fratt with Alliance Global Partners. Please proceed.

Poe Fratt

Hi, Aristides. Hi, Tasos.

Tasos, just to do math on the delivery payments. I'm calculating the second half of 2027, you're going to owe about $65 million on the first two newbuilds, and then in the first half of '28 you're going to owe about or have to pay about $65 million in for the last two newbuilds.

Is that correct?

Tasos Aslidis

That's probably right. I think you should you should think of something like 55% of the contract price to be paid in the year of the delivery, in the in the in the half year of the delivery.

Something like $65 million for the first pair and $65 million for the second pair sounds right.

Poe Fratt

That's what I was using. Then just a nitpicky one, how did you decide to offer the charterer the 1-year option after the fourth year?

If you look at the way that time charters are structured on the four newbuilds, 4 years at 35.5 and then 5 years at 32.5, it seems like you're giving up a lot on that last year of extra coverage. Can you just talk about that?

Tasos Aslidis

I think we were discussing with charterers various options of chartering our ships, from 3 years to 5 years, and there were different combinations of rates and durations. We ended up agreeing that we'll focus on a 4-year duration at $35,500, but they asked to have the option to extend or do the 5-year deal, they have a year to decide about that.

That implies a rate in the low $20s for the fifth year, if you compare 4 years at 35 and 5 years at 32 and 1/2. The implied rate for the fifth year, if you keep the first four years at $35,500, it's around in the low $20s.

We felt that was an appropriate trade-off to make.

Poe Fratt

I had calculated 20 $20,500. Then on your slide 20, it seems like you're implying that the fleet will, even with the newbuilds coming into the fleet, will decline in '26 and '27 and '28.

Can you just talk about your strategy on selling some of the older assets, mainly the feeders that don't have as much contract cover?

Tasos Aslidis

I think we have two vessels that

Aristides Pittas

are Yeah, let me take that. Let me take that, Tasos.

We're taking a very conservative approach that the market may decline significantly and we will need to, instead of passing the special survey of our two elder vessels, we will decide to scrap them. This, of course, is the lowest possible scenario, but we are indeed being very conservative in our projections.

Poe Fratt

Just to get granular, it looks like the Hydra and the Jonathan P would be the two scrapping candidates if the market does do what you think it is going to do?

Aristides Pittas

No, it's the Corfu and the Evridiki. It's the oldest vessels in our fleet.

Poe Fratt

Perfect. Thank you so much.

Tasos Aslidis

Thank you, Poe.

Aristides Pittas

Okay.

Operator

With no further questions, I would like to turn the conference back over to management for closing remarks.

Aristides Pittas

Thank you very much, everybody, for listening in, and we will be back to you at the beginning of the year with full year results.

Operator

Thank you. Thank you.

Thanks, everybody. Thank you.

This will conclude today's conference. You may disconnect at this time, and thank you for your participation.