Hi, team. Hope I am audible.

Yeah. Sir, first question on the volume part.

As, of course, the West Asia conflict has, to an extent, affected our volumes even in the last fourth quarter, how has been the trend currently? Are we seeing any improvement over here, or things are still, you can say, under pressure as of now?

Hi. No, the trend is continuing right now, volumes remain a bit subdued, and there's no clarity also on when things will pick up exactly.

It's a wait-and-watch kind of situation.

Okay. Any specific commodity or, let's say, any specific import or export part which has been impacted mainly because of this?

Anything that you want to highlight on this?

Basically, if we look at on the import side, all the cargo which is coming from US, Europe, and Middle East is impacted. After this West Asia crisis, the outbound commodity on the export side, which is food and beverage, rice and basically frozen foods, they are getting impacted.

Got it. Sir, on the expansion part, as we have, you can say, probably the Jaipur ICD, which has been stuck, any update on that?

Of course, what's the status of the Indore ICD that we have recently added? What's the progress over there?

Jaipur, we have our next hearing in July, which is listed for final arguments, we're hopeful for a positive order within that hearing or very short thereafter if it gets adjourned to another hearing. Indore is in progress.

We've given a target of 2028 for commencement of operations. No problems there.

Got it, sir. Apart from this, any other area that we are planning as of now to expand?

Of course, the recent demand has not been that great, but anything else that we are planning as of now, anything that have been identified or to be added in the near term?

We're still on the lookout, and we're looking both owned as well as accessing some third-party sidings. Regardless of this short-term demand, we're trying to create assets for long term, we're not stopping our search for land and the right locations for more ICDs.

Got it. Sir, what's the update on the Ankleshwar MMLP that we have entered into an agreement with the Sawaria Group?

How has been the volume ramp-up over there, and what is the outlook for FY 2027 for that particular MMLP?

Domestic volumes have started there, and we've been consistently adding month-on-month. In this last quarter, we've won a tender with ArcelorMittal and started doing steel coil rake handling from there.

That's an added new revenue stream for us, which we weren't participating in earlier. The ICD will probably take anywhere from 3 to 6 months.

The construction is going on, it's on track, but by the time all the permissions come in place, it can be anywhere from 3 to 6 months.

Got it, sir. Sir, coming to the financial statement, what I see is that despite the growth has been quite muted for the whole year because of the effect of the CFS segment as well, overall gross margin has been largely intact.

The one key thing that I see is that the employee cost has risen by around, you can say, 12% to 13% over last year on FY 2025 versus FY 2026 comparison. Any specific thing?

Are we adding headcounts, or is it the remuneration which has been increased, or what kind of trend that we can expect even if, let's say, volume has been stagnant, overall operation has been stagnant? What could have been the reason for such a rise in the employee cost for the full year?

It's a mix of everything. The headcount is also going up as we're scaling up in domestic operations.

That's also team is being set up. Ankleshwar is coming.

It's a bit in advance. This headcount is coming, but we're preparing for the future.

Other than that, also, there's some retention scheme bonuses and etcetera that we've added. All that has contributed to it.

Got it, sir. Sir, from the, let's say, next 3 to 5 years perspective, even if we, let's say, remove the existing impact, what kind of growth that we are, let's say, seeing from overall point of view from the rail segment?

Including how has been the market share for us in the key regions that we have been operating in along with, let's say, whatever impact that we might be seeing recently or could be in future because of the connection of the DFC to the JNPT, which has already started?

It's tough to give a guidance, but as and when we add new terminals, depending on how many we add, we would be trying to target a 15% growth for the rail segment. CFS is probably around 5%.

Snowman also we're targeting about a 15% growth. That's consistent with our long-term vision assuming lesser and lesser disruptions, although it happens once a year some new disruption kind of comes in.

Sorry, the second question was what?

Sir, market share.

The market share, sorry. The market share, we're not since last quarter or last two quarters, we've stopped giving individual region-wise market share, we won't be going ahead and sharing that.

No issue. Sir, on the JNPT part, how much volume we would have been doing at the JNPT, and are we going to have any positive impact overall with the DFC now getting connected to the JNPT?

Again, the last stretch of JNPT is still not complete. We are expecting that it should take another month's time.

Once that last section gets completed, then only we'll be able to give some kind of guidance what will be the volume shift.

Got it, sir. Sir, how much of our total cargo would have been on double stack for, let's say, 4Q or for FY 2026?

So,

40% for the full FY. Also, I'll just request that there are other people waiting in line for questions, if you can come back in queue.

No issue. Thank you so much.

Thank you for the opportunity. Could you share more about the kind of CapEx that you spent this year?

I think it's a large number at about 170 crores or so. Could you elaborate where the money has been spent?

Allied question over here, as you see through the DFC commissioning happening, in what all areas would you want to invest more to be well prepared for the opportunity ahead?

The CapEx figure that we have for the container business is about 90 crores, I'm not sure where 170 is coming from, unless you're counting Snowman also, but even then, if you include Calcutta warehouse and everything...

30.

...it's about 30 for Snowman.

Sure, okay. Yeah.

On

on the CapEx guidance for the year also is with the Indore project is a 150-crore project out of which we've spent about 50 for the land already. This 100 will come in the next 2 years.

Jaipur, if it comes in, then that'll be another 70 crores to be spread across a year, year and a half over there. Other than that, we are also buying electric reach stackers.

Electric vehicles also, we've just placed our first order. We're buying three rakes as well.

All all this will add up to an additional about 125 crores. This includes a new warehouse also.

All this is coming in. On the new locations and all, you you're asking where along the DFC we're planning, or I missed that last part, sorry?

As in more importantly also on the nature of rakes that would be well-equipped to kind of take the full benefit of DFC, how are you thinking through in any related CapEx plans? Obviously, this is the rake part of things.

On the ICD part of things also, if you would want to share the way you're thinking as how you want to be prepared.

How we've historically done it is that when we hit about 70%, 80% capacity utilization, we extend the yard. We are planning that in two of our locations, Garhi and Piyala, right now.

Other places, we have enough yard capacity right now to ramp up some more volume. Our land bank is enough to cater to up to four times the volume that we currently do.

Existing land won't be an issue. Ankleshwar would come in, that'll also add into the volumes.

Indore and Jaipur also, that's our plan on the ICD front right now. If anything new comes in, that'll be another 2 years from now, we're still looking a bit long term on that.

Sure. Finally, as in both on market share as well as your double-stacking coefficient, if you could give a direction to how things are moving, if not absolute numbers, that'll be useful.

That'll be my last question. Thank you.

Double stacking, we're at 40% for the year. Q4 was at 42%, but throughout the year, it was kind of between 39% to 42% kind of thing, and it's given an average of 40%.

On a market share basis, it's pretty much intact of what we've been reporting in the last few quarters, no major change there.

Thank you.

Thanks.

Sir, am I audible?

My question is with respect to Snowman. Because you've been having this 1,000-crore revenue target, and I know there are so many disruptions and it's getting delayed, and can you please throw some light on when will we reach that revenue, and margins we will have once we go there?

Because 5PL, I don't think we'll be able to do with all the customers, only with a very high quality customers we'll be able to do. What will be the margins, and how should we think?

Because we are not able to model the company at all.

It was a broad guidance, and that time things were looking a lot more positive. We can't give a proper guidance without evaluating what the situation, specially with this West Asia situation, goes like.

1,000 crores is still our plan, maybe it gets deferred by a year or so. On the margin front, as more 5PL increases, the percentage of EBITDA would go down, but the overall EBITDA would go up.

Our target would be that something like at 1,000 crores, it's a 15% EBITDA margin on a blended basis and we have a 150-crore EBITDA.

That 150 crore is minus even you take leases away, sir, because we pay the lease rent, or you're not including...

Leases are below this.

Leases are below this. If you can, sir, second question is, can you tell what is our market share, sir?

It's very hard in Snowman to come up with a market share figure. If you look at our capacity, we're at about 160,000 pallets.

The next competition is at 80,000 pallets, and then after that, it gets very fragmented to a lot of people having anywhere from 10 to 30,000. Snowman is the market leader.

If you look at the unorganized space and include all kinds of potato cold storages, B-grade warehouses, everything, the capacity is so big that even all put together, Snowman would only be about 3%, 4% of the entire market size. As

in terms of the size, even the second guy would be half of yours.

In the organized cold storage, like A, yeah. Half of us.

Actually, they've reduced pallet capacity further now, they would be even less than half of us now. Sir,

if you don't mind, 1,000 crore by FY 2028 we can take, or difficult, or '29?

It's a bit optimistic, but we'll have to wait and watch and see, but maybe more realistic is FY 2029.

Sir, thank you. Sir, if you don't mind, can you have better disclosure in terms of leases, because some facilities are lease, some are owned, some are different models.

To do understanding of the cash flow, if you do not mind, if you can share with us what is below the EBITDA, especially in terms of lease rentals, that would help us get the real picture of the cash flow, sir.

We'll think over it, how to report it, but basically, we're following the Ind AS accounting. I

understand, sir, but because this is difficult because other companies at least we can take the whole thing, but cash flow statement comes only there, if you can help us with that.

Sure, maybe we'll come out with some system next quarter onwards.

Thank you, sir. Thank you very much.

Thank you.

Hello, am I audible?

Thank you. My questions are about Snowman.

First question is about the margins. We can see that the EBIT margins went down across all segments for the full year.

My question is specifically about the warehousing and the 5PL businesses. Can you please explain why that happened?

Typically in the warehousing, we have had few R&Ms and there were certain startup warehouses wherein the power cost was high initially. That has resulted into a little depleted margin.

Now those warehouses which were non-operational last financial year are running at optimum levels. This was a temporary ramp-up phase for the new facilities in Calcutta, Krishnapatnam.

That has led to the typical reduction in number.

Okay. What was the capacity utilization for the full year?

We were at around 86%, 87% for the last financial year.

Does this include the Krishnapatnam...

It includes every facility which is on-boarded. The moment it is on-boarded, it is added as a capacity and the utilization goes down and then we ramp it up.

On an average in a year, we were around 86%, 87% between that.

Okay. Can you provide an overview of the competitive intensity in the industry, maybe some metrics about how much capacity is coming in, which players are adding capacity, where?

Is capacity leaving the market, as you said the second largest competitor has reduced their capacity, so that's the important point.

See, we keep hearing about the news, but there's nothing concrete which I can comment here about the competition.

Okay. Can you provide the share of dry and cold in your warehouses?

Because

dry has lower margin as I understand, right?

Currently, our dry utilization will be around 9% to 10% of the total capacity, and we're further reducing that.

You're reducing that?

Yeah.

That should result in an increase in margins.

Correct. It will lead to higher ASPs.

We have had few customers which we moved out last year. We were forced to utilize few of our frozen places to accommodate them.

It is now done with, and it is shifted, or the new cargo is from frozen segment. It is going to add up on to the overall yields.

Just last question on the balance sheet, sir, and then I'll come back. What is the amount of lease interest and principal, and debt interest and principal that is due in FY 2027?

Are you comfortable about that situation giving that you had 14 crore of cash on hand for March '20?

We have repayments of around 30 crores in next financial year, and we have...

Including lease and debt, principal and interest?

No, lease, there is no repayment of lease, it's basically accounting entry only, the lease liabilities.

You have to pay the interest, right?

No, we don't need to pay. Basically, we need to pay rents only.

Rent, right, lease rent. That is the part of our operating expenses only.

Only that comes into the P&L. Only the repayment is what you are asking, it is around 30 crores.

Only debt. What is the rent payment for the year?

Because in the

P&L, it's spread across the interest and depreciation.

Rent payment would be around 40 crores for the entire year.

40 crore. Sir.

Thank you. I'll come back.

Okay.

Hello. I hope my voice is audible.

Yeah. Sir, basically a few quarters ago we had talked about that opportunity of LCL cargo and the time-sensitive cargo is huge once the JNPT DFC commissions.

After a month ago, how much of the market opportunity do you see from that kind of a market? Where are we in the face of negotiations with the exporters?

Just want to understand the market size of that opportunity. Thank you.

It's hard to put a concrete number to it, but within NCR itself, there's about 6 to 10,000 TEUs of this kind of volume. Other parts also get consolidated at Nhava Sheva.

Other parts of the country like UP, Rajasthan, and all, the volumes go by loose trucks to Nhava Sheva. This volume is significant, but nothing's happening on it right now, specially with the whole West Asia thing.

People are not looking for a change in model within their business, and everyone's just trying to secure their current volumes. JNPT, although they announced that the DFC is complete, it'll still take a couple of more months for it to be operational, specially on double stack, so that's still pending actually.

Sir. This was 62 62 6 to 10,000 TEUs which you mentioned is for the per month, right?

Or it is for quarter?

Per month.

Per month. Okay.

My second question was on the CFS sale which we have been actually talking about since long, where are we in the process of are we actually thinking about it

and

where are we now? Yeah.

For the last few quarters, we've confirmed that we're not looking actively for a buyer on it.

Okay. Sir, my last question was just wanted to get the bifurcation of the CFS TEUs and the rail TEUs out of the total volume of 188, 179 TEUs this quarter.

It's reported in our press release. For the quarter, I say we've done 188,000; 96,000 is rail and 91,000 is CFS roughly.

Sir, got it. Thank you.

Thanks.

Hi. My question was regarding Snowman.

Despite increasing revenue, I think a 10% increase in revenue, there has been a 20 20% almost increase in COGS. What is the reason for that, because I think that is majorly affecting profitability?

As we mentioned earlier, we have had couple of warehouses which were started in last financial year and there was an inflated cost due to that which achieved the optimum utilization towards the far end of the last financial year. Other than that, there were certain high costs on DG which were reported in previous quarters as well due to power cut and all.

We have had huge expense on running our facilities on DGs. That has also contributed to the reduced margin.

Further, one more point. See, you are seeing the 10% growth that is the overall growth in revenue.

If you see only the trading part which is trading and distribution, there is a growth of 23% and all COGS is related to trading only. Other segments are not attributing to that.

Okay. Lastly, given the current situation in West Asia, I believe you all have a lot of international clients who would make sort of strategic initiatives.

What are the headwinds that you all see or foresee with this scenario?

See, as of now, the trade is moving fine. We particularly cater to domestic distribution.

For our EXIM customers, yes, there has been certain delays because of the availability of containers and the cargo has overstayed with us. Imports, we had to pull in faster, rather over-ordering is done as of now.

Other than that, we have not seen yet a very significant concern.

All right. Thank you.

Thank you so much.

Hi, thanks for the opportunity. Two questions from my end.

Firstly, rail segment obviously reported a decent set of numbers even when compared to what the railways had reported in the past quarter. Just trying to understand how much of this is market share driven and what is the kind of impact that you saw in the month of March, and how is it now?

Obviously, railways is reporting a greater set of decline, but how is the business for you if you can throw some color on that, please?

Not too much market share gains related. It's just that some of the commodities that were hit badly in March were a lot food-related like rice and onions and bananas and all that, and we had less exposure to those commodities.

Then the whole shipping cycle has become affected because of this, it's not just the volumes to and from Middle East. It's the entire Europe, US, like Rajguru was explaining earlier, that everything has gotten disrupted.

Maybe the initial originating volumes didn't get affected as much for us, but then the subsequent volumes were affected. April is also seeing that trend, actually, we're not sure when it will clear up.

It really depends on when Iran and US come to a resolution.

Is April as bad as March, or is it deteriorating further?

Similar lines, within range, not extremely worse, but yeah, there's impact.

Understood. My second question is on both realizations and margins.

Both on a QoQ and also on YoY basis, I see that on per TEU the realizations and margins are lower about 4%, 5% odd percent. What drove this decline and how much of the margin front at least that you can attribute to export/import imbalance or empty running?

If you can speak a little bit about on that front, please.

There's imbalance, there's some year-end costs that come in with accounting, there's impact of domestic business we've started, although it's less in terms of percentage right now, the revenue and EBITDA is lower on the domestic side, which we said would happen. Over time, as more domestic happens, as more short distance happens, our revenue and EBITDA per TEU might go down, but it should help contribute to the overall EBITDA.

Obviously, with fixed costs being there on an overall volume decline for the quarter, we are seeing that impact.

Just trying to understand this a bit better. Two parts to it.

One, the realization front on a YoY basis is still down. Domestic, my assumption was that, please correct me if I'm wrong, my assumption was that it would not have been material yet in overall share of mix.

Just trying to understand what drove that decline in realization. Even on the year-end cost front, right, and that would have been there even last year in the fourth quarter, what has changed there?

No, there's more empties, more underframe. You might see the number of TEUs not dip as much, but the number of leaden TEUs towards our more profitable segments like 40 feet that can get easily double-stacked, that was impacted a bit.

It's not one clear-cut answer that we have that this is what caused a lower EBITDA, but rising costs were also there like in March, there was a situation where a lot of our trains were stabled. Those stabling costs come in.

Yeah.

Then

also for domestic, there are a lot of costs loaded up front for the domestic business like taking containers on lease for business that's not come in yet, but we want to be prepared for that. There's a cost to move those containers from different parts of the country, one side haulage has been paid on an underframe basis, one side empty haulage has been paid to bring those containers to us, but without any corresponding revenue.

Those type of hits have also come in Q4.

Understood. I'm assuming at least the latter part which you indicated one-time movements or one-time expense, that's not something which is going to be recurring, I think.

How should we look at that trend therefore in FY 2027 per se?

See, again, it depends on the West Asia thing, it's a bit too early to say what will happen. On a normal basis, suppose this wasn't there, then we would go back to our previous quarters' numbers, but it's very hard to predict right now what will happen.

Sure. Got it, sir.

Thank you and all the best.

Thanks.

Thanks for the opportunity. Sir, my question is more on the debt part.

As we see is that our debt was at 550 crore, now it's at around 170 crore at the gross level at the Gateway Distriparks standalone. During this last 4, 5 years we have invested in Snowman, we have invested in ICD Jaipur, we have also acquired the ICD Kashipur.

Going forward, as of now, we have only one ICD wherein our CapEx is moving. Is it safe to assume that this debt will be eventually zero, and if let's say we are not going to, let's say, any increase in stake in Snowman, how we are expected to use the cash flows that we are generating on a consistent basis?

Because our overall bottom line is at around 270 crore, good amount of cash flow we are generating. How will we be utilizing this cash flows?

We have enough CapEx plans like we're taking three trains, so that'll equal to about 55 crores of CapEx. A lot of our fleet is aging and we're moving towards EV, and each EV blended cost comes to about 90 lakhs per trailer, and we have to set up the corresponding infrastructure for it for power.

We'll be investing in solar as well across our locations more. Electric reach stackers are there, new warehouses within our existing ICD.

There is a significant CapEx plan even without new ICDs. Indore and Jaipur, whenever it comes in, that'll also contribute to it.

For the foreseeable future, we have enough plans while our gross debt will also keep coming down. Like we've announced in the past, we're not looking to increase our stake in Snowman in the near term.

There would be use for it, and we'll continue like dividend, we've said that is also going to be part of it.

Got it. Got it.

Sir, just last two things from my side. One is on the taxation part.

I guess is it safe to assume that eventually over next 3, 4 years our tax rate would be eventually go towards 18%, the MAT rate, that way conversion is happening as I've seen in the past and from the commentary as well?

No, tax rate, yeah, there's been a change basically. MAT reduced by 1%, but there was a question of old regime, new regime because the 80-IA tax benefit has gone away for us.

We're missing out 1 year of 80-IA tax benefit which would have been FY 2027 for some of our facilities. We're going to have enough MAT credit that we're not going to pay cash tax for the next, say, 3 years at least, maybe even 4.

Till then, book accounting will be different, but cash tax will be utilizing of MAT credit and paying MAT.

Got it. Got it.

Sir, just last one thing. We have been guiding around 15% kind of a volume growth.

What we have seen in the industry is that over last 10 to 15 years time, industry grows on a CAGR basis at somewhat near to around 10%. If we see our growth over last 4 years, FY 2022 to FY 2026, it has been around 4%, 5%.

Of course, there has been some external factors that has impacted operations across the years, but how we are confident on having 15% growth? Is it because of addition of capacity, increasing the market share, or overall market as well growing into it?

What's your point, let's say how we are confident of achieving this 15% growth in the railway over a medium-term point of view?

Rail has been growing at about 10%, but because of CFS, combined CFS has been more about flat to...

No, I'm just talking about the railway throughput. In FY 2022, we did 333,000 throughput.

In FY 2026, we did around 394,000, which is coming to around 4.3% CAGR. It's just the railway throughput that I'm talking, not including the CFS.

Okay. No, if from last year we've had about a 10% growth and the overall market didn't grow by 10%, we added market share as well as some domestic volume.

We're going to continue to expand on our domestic volumes and new locations, when Ankleshwar will come in say within this year, Indore say 2 years from now, Jaipur will also probably come in 2 years from now. All this will continue adding to our 15% growth that we're targeting, and we want to add more locations as well.

Got it. That was really helpful.

That's it from my side. Thank you so much and all the best.

Thanks.

Hello, am I audible?

Now?

Thank you. My questions are about Snowman again.

What's the CapEx target for this year?

We're looking at more BTSs this year, but we do have some plans to buy land and probably one owned warehouse we'll target, plus some vehicles, maybe around 50-crore CapEx is the guideline for FY 2027.

Okay. Coming to the transportation segment, it has been a thorny segment to operate.

Can you provide us with some metrics that you monitor to gauge the performance of this business, whether it is doing well or whether it is not doing well? When might you consider a divestment of this business and moving on to outsourcing of transportation activities?

Is there a strategic value that this segment still adds to the business, and why or why not would outsourcing be a viable option?

To start with, the transportation segment is under constant stress and we do have a proper metrics in which we do measure the kilometers run by each vehicle, the sort of fueling we are doing in terms of percentage to revenues, and multiple other parameters on which we monitor it on daily basis. In fact, we're moving on to an online platform of transport management system wherein we will be able to get it up to a trip level of accuracy, which will be in the Q1 of this FY.

In a month's time, we'll be live on that portal, which will help us to further drill down on profitable and non-profitable lanes. That's going to give us some sort of a guideline on how do we revamp the entire strategy around it.

Coming to your other question, we do own few vehicles, which is close to 250, 260 today, and then we do have another 200 vehicles which we run on lease. We already have an outsourced model which is operational.

The third question was why should we not only do a leasing, that increases the risk, we need to run and operate our own vehicles alongside what we do with our leasing partners. That dilutes my risk of overall operations, and when the partners may walk off with the entire fleet, it becomes difficult to revamp that at the pace we want it, and then the entire setup has to be redone.

Considering all those business risks and mitigations, we will continue to invest as we just mentioned that we are planning to buy few more vehicles this year adding up to the fleet this year, and that's how it is going to continue.

Okay. That was very helpful, sir.

A question about the 5PL business. Are there any other companies doing 5PL in cold chain in India?

Any large players?

Not sure about any large player. There are certain 3PL companies who do own stocks, which makes it 4PL, but they don't have their own warehouses and also it cannot be considered as a 5PL.

Okay. The margins in the 5PL business went down as well.

Was that just a result of the ramping up of the business? See,

the margins are almost flat itself. If you see it on the gross margin level, it is approximately same as it was last financial year and they are certain to remain in the similar zone only.

No, looking at the EBIT margins, that went down around 40 bps, 6.2%.

See, that is specific to, as I mentioned, some of the imports were pulled in in the last month of the last year. That has led to one-time procurement, some of the costs were added there.

Other than that...

That was in 5PL?

Yeah.

Okay. Sir, just the last question about the pricing scenario in warehousing.

How is that looking?

It's quite positive. The industry is moving and responding to the price increases.

We have had couple of price increases required this year, and with Haryana changing the wage laws and all, that has been passed through and customers have accepted that. We are seeing a positive response on that.

Are there more price hikes planned in the near future?

Sorry, I didn't get the question.

Are there more price hikes planned in the near future for the warehousing segment?

For every contract renewal, we are making sure that we ask and pass on the costs which have increased during the last financial year and expected to increase in the current financial year. We are very determined to get the price hike for every contract renewal as and when they come.

Sir. Thank you very much for answering all my questions.

Have a good day.

You, too.