Good evening, everyone. On behalf of entire Pakka team, I'd like to extend a very warm welcome to all of you for our Q4 investor call.

Thank you for joining us today. Before we begin the presentation, please allow me to introduce our leadership team: Mr.

Ved Krishna, Group Lead; Mr. Mayank Jindal, Manufacturing Business Head; Mr.

Shubham Tibrewal, Food Services Business Head; Miss Neetika Suryawanshi, Finance Head. Also joining us today is Mr.

Himanshu Kapoor, who is the Non-Independent Non-Executive Director. Based on board's recommendation, we have asked him to step in to this call to address queries related to our recent funding.

He will be taking us through the details for the same and addressing queries regarding the same at the end of the session. My name is Pranay, and I lead the Brand and Marketing function at Pakka.

We'll proceed with the presentation now. [unclear] Yes, Ved Krishna [unclear].

I'm just sharing my screen.

Shashi, can you please keep putting people on silent here, because otherwise there'll be noise. Anytime you hear background noise, please check if somebody's not put themselves on silent.

[unclear]

I'll request people to please bear us for the time of presentation, and we'll take questions later. Over to you, Ved, to kick off the presentation.

Great. Namaskar to all the investors.

This is an important call for us because we realize that there have been a lot of challenges in the last year, and of course in the last quarter as well. It's important that we address those challenges upfront.

We have a lot of learnings from the last year, which I want to start with, and then of course we'll take it forward from there. First and foremost, what we realized was that there was a challenge that came in because of our lack of funding that we had kind of arranged.

The idea was that there'd be a couple of equity investors who come in, and then the rest will come from bank. What we realized was the faltering of the share price led to one investor not honoring the warrants, which meant that we had to scramble for funding.

That has been effectively put in place now, but it of course took us back significantly. It also took over a lot of management bandwidth to be able to arrange this.

The second was that of course, it is again related to funding. If you don't have money in the bank, everything slows down.

Because of that, there was a challenge in the speed of the project execution. This is a huge project, and we are trying to actually set up four plants simultaneously, which is not an easy endeavor for any team.

It has gone forward. We will also show you the significant progress that the project team has made, but it also meant that the lack of fund flow and some challenges with some suppliers led to a little bit of delay in the project execution.

There has been a lag in product development, which you have pointed out before. We are definitely working on it.

There is significant changes that we are making as we go forward, and we will discuss that. What we found was that there was a lot of focus that we had to bring towards commercialization, and those are still happening.

We see that the speed at which we would have liked to do it has been lagging, there is a learning there too. We have certain limited resources, and we can utilize them in certain ways.

What we realized was that we had spread ourselves thin. Of course, you guys also pointed it out, but we felt that maybe we could do multiple projects at the same time.

That also led to significant reduction in bandwidth, we have narrowed down and made our focus India to stabilize India first, and we will do that before we take up anything else. That will help us gain momentum here.

There has been some movement in the team, as you have noticed as well. We are working on more solidity towards team.

Mayank has of course joined us as our Manufacturing Business Head, and we are excited to have him. He comes with a very strong background of over almost 30 years in the industry.

Worked with JK for a significant period. Mayank, maybe when you start talking, we haven't put in a slide of your introduction, and we realize that this is your first call, I think it'll be good if you just give the investors a little bit of your background.

I'm sure a lot of them have already looked it up. Over to you, Mayank.

Let's start with the review, and then I'll come back towards the end.

Sure. Thank you very much.

Let me introduce myself first before we go to the business performance, as Ved said. Thank you very much.

This is Mayank. I have an over 30 years of in fact, over 35 years of experience in the industry.

I've worked mainly with the major integrated mills, India, abroad. My major tenure was almost two decades with the JK Paper, one of the very prominent paper manufacturer in India.

In addition to that, I've served in Thailand for about 6 years. My last assignment was in Indonesia.

Was with the APRIL Fine Group, one of the largest manufacturer globally in all the segments of the pulp and paper. I recently joined just 2 months back.

It is exactly 2 months today.

Mayank, your video is

I'm really sorry.

Sorry, Mayank,

just Something is wrong. I kept it on, but I really do not know what is the issue with the camera.

Maybe there is a slider on the top of the camera. You have to slide it open.

We can tackle it after the presentation.

Let's

keep going. Sure.

Yeah. Okay.

Can we

go to the next slide? There's a few highlights for the Q4 performance, and here you can see that our revenue has improved by 8% over the last year same quarter and 4% over the Q3 performance.

That shows some indication that we are coming on right track as far as the revenue is concerned. PBT side, yes, there was a negative, and there are various factor which I'll be covering in the subsequent slides with more details.

If you see on the overall financials, yes, there was a dip around 13% on the overall year. The major reason was that we had taken a major shut in one of the machine.

I'll explain you more in details in the subsequent slides on that also. This is more about the wrap and carry business, specifically which we do from the Ayodhya facility.

If we see the Q4 performance, here also there was a 4% up in the Q4 over the last year same quarter, and 6% up over the Q3 performance. That's how this was consolidating well.

Again, there was a dip at the PBT level, 16%, 17%. This is an indication.

This is far better than overall year performance if we see, particularly for the wrap and carry. I'll share you the reasons for this also in the subsequent slides.

Go to the next, please. This is the overall year performance, 303 for wrap and carry only.

Here, there was a volume drop 17%, as I said, one specific reason of the machine modification shut, and same has impacted on the PBT also to almost 50% drop. Next.

Challenges, if we see, actually the good thing is there was not too many challenges which we faced in this year. One was the PM3 outage, it was a planned shut.

We planned for a 20 days shut, but incidentally, that's taken longer and took almost 40 days to complete this work. PM3 was our major machine, the highest-capacity machine, which is contributing almost 50% of the total volume.

This has impacted severely, and the impact only for the PM3 outage was ₹11 crore on the PBT. Another was the pricing impact.

See, there are many new entrants are in the market, and they're trying to establish, there was a sort of pricing war. They made the market a little tough on that, and because of those NSR, we had an impact around ₹16 crore.

Now way forward, if we see that how to go ahead on this, this PM3 part, still it is because modification we have done, but some capacity increase which was expected was not done. This we have planned in this month.

We'll be doing in the fourth week of June. This will help us increasing our production by 10 tons a day, and this will give an boost to around ₹8 crore on our PBT alone.

In addition to this, we are taking many other measures, cost optimization and the ramp up and OGR that we are outsourcing, and that we want to increase and go up to the 500 TPD. It is TPM, 500 tons a month.

Gradually we will be increasing it, and launch new grades so that the market competition, those things we can cover up and enter with a better contribution products. With this, we'll be able to go for a higher contribution product in the product mix in PM1 and PM2.

One or two products we have already tried and giving a better results. Go to next.

That's all I think from the wrap and carry side. Over to you, Shubham.

Thank you, Mayank sir. Good afternoon, everyone.

I will walk you through the performance of and the highlights of the food services business unit. Then we can move on to the next slide.

Here we have some good news, which is our revenue for Q4 was significantly higher when we compare it to the same quarter last year. We clocked approximately ₹17 crore versus ₹11.5 crore.

Quarter-on-quarter growth was not that much better, but that is because for us, Q3 is one of our strongest quarters because of the festive season, and usually Q4, there are some impacts of de-rationalization and stock-taking due to which buying is slightly reduced. All in all, our revenue trend is extremely positive.

The changes that we've put in place in the business over the last year are starting to bear fruit. In terms of the PBT, there is an impact.

Sorry, Pranay, can you just go to the last slide? Thank you.

On the PBT, there is a negative impact, and this negative impact is due to some one-off items. I will go through them in a subsequent slide, but this is not reflective of our actual operational performance of the core business.

We can move on to the year-on-year numbers. Thank you.

Like I said, we have managed to achieve significant growth over the last year in terms of the top line. The bottom line is impacted.

We'll go through the reasons of how much of this is from the core business and how much is it from non-recurring or one-off actions which were taken in Q4. What did drive our higher revenue, and what were the changes that we were able to implement, and the results we achieved can be summarized here.

This is of course not all, but I think these are the main highlights for the year. We grew our volumes significantly by 20%, from 2,600 tons last year to 3,100 tons this year.

This added ₹8 crore of top line for us. This is net revenue.

We did this by expanding significantly our presence pan-India. We what we call unlocked new territories.

We made our products available in 25 new cities, and especially on the B2C front, we were able to get significant results and get a lot of momentum because we were able to grow this specific channel, which is of course our highest-margin channel, by 2.5 times. We went from approximately ₹2.5 crore last year to ₹6.5 crore this year.

Can you go to the next? Thank you.

Now why were the losses so elevated? It can be explained in two parts.

We have roughly ₹3 crore of losses which are coming from the plant and the manufacturing. We were facing some issues with the equipment we have in the plant, and due to that, we had even taken a shut of certain machines in the middle of the year, and that had a significant impact on the overall cost of production because there's a lot of equipment which is running in the back end and we have a lot of fixed costs.

When the output dipped, the costing of the rest of the products also went high. There was a lot of changes and improvements which were attempted at the plant to upgrade the machines, fix the machines.

They were requiring higher maintenance than usual. Because of this, there were some losses which were incurred at the plant level which were not planned.

There were also some one-off non-cash items for ₹3 crore which was incurred, and this was relating to basically clearing some slow-moving inventory and old stocks, some write-offs of again, old packaging materials, inventories. We kind of did thorough cleanup of our books and reconciliations of the inventory and the stocks.

We had also booked some old project development costs which were there in the books, but we decided to write them off so that we can have a clean start as we start this new year. Our plan of action is we want to build on the growth which we have created last year, the momentum which we have created, and the network that we have built.

We again want to keep growing our B2B business, and the way to do that is to again ensure higher availability of our products. Again, target of 25 new cities and also increase the number of touchpoints in each city, what we call our reseller and distributor network.

We're of course working on winning back and acquiring some big accounts, which helps us kind of move volumes. Retail is where we are seeing the most success and where we also feel there is a lot of potential in the market, we will continue to build on this B2C business.

There are still a lot of touchpoints where we are not yet present, we are expanding. The target for the end of this current financial year is to be present at every single major quick commerce, e-commerce, modern trade, and big-box store that's available to us.

Most of these actions have already been launched, we are fairly confident that we will get very good growth here. Again, this is the highest-margin channel for us.

Another initiative that we have taken, and in light of what I mentioned in the previous slide relating to the manufacturing-related losses, is to scale the business through outsourcing sites. These are sites where we are supplying our own pulp and we are getting our own products manufactured.

We are using our plants in different locations. This has many advantages.

It reduces the cost of our products. It optimizes freight because currently we were manufacturing in Ayodhya and shipping pan-India.

Now we will have manufacturing sites all around the country, and we will be able to serve markets locally. This is expansion without CapEx because it is capacity which already exists, we will be able to scale the business without having to invest a whole lot into it.

Of course, it's much faster to execute than to build capacity. That's the whole idea.

We go asset-light, and we basically add just incremental EBITDA to our P&L. We will be undertaking new initiatives as well this year to diversify our revenue streams so that will basically come through new product categories which we are launching.

This includes a range of products in the food services category which our customers require. Of course, continue to build the delivery range because as you may all be aware, it's a market which is growing very, very strongly in India, and we see great potential for our products in there.

We've also started to look more closely to the US opportunity because our team there has opened a significant pipeline for us. There's very strong demand in that market, and we are exploring how that can capture that.

That's it from my side.

Thanks, Shubham. I'll take the innovations too.

There is a lot of effort that continues to be done on the innovation side. The first one of course is that we are very excited about a new machine coming onstream.

Trials should begin in the next 3 to 4 months. It's taking shape, as you'll see in some of the pictures that we are going to show.

Of course, the idea is to build the right base paper for barrier coating in the future. The idea is to get the product right.

We have actually in the middle of working with certain European pilot machines, and we are going to take some trials within the next couple of months to get the product and provide it to the customers before the machine comes onstream. The non-metallized flexi, we have reached a stage where we are now able to take a pilot trial.

Right now, we were kind of running on smaller what we would call lab pilots, which are continuous machines, and numerous trials have happened. We've taken the cost down significantly, and the efficacy up as well.

Now we are relatively confident that we will be taking this product and running it on a certain kind of scale where we can actually provide customers with material and then start coating. Of course, the other one which we have been focused on, and it's taken again longer than we had envisaged, is the delivery containers.

We actually did a soft launch at Aahar this last quarter. The response was excellent.

There is some challenge in terms of costing, which we see, but that said, we will do a phase one kind of launch within this quarter, which is basically working towards making sure that a smaller production of a certain number of products is done in our facilities, and we start launching it in the market. Of course, this should lead to a larger expansion as well.

A significant step that we have taken now is to move our Bangalore facility to Ayodhya, and that has been done after a lot of deliberation, because of course the main challenge for us or the reason why we were in Bangalore was mainly talent. We have talked to the team.

We do think most of our team will get retained, and we can invest much more heavily in Ayodhya rather than being on a rented site. That also enables it to be closer to the operations team, which means that we are working towards faster application and commercialization.

This is a step that will be carried out within the next 2 months as well, which means that our innovation site for now is also going to be Ayodhya. Those are the big innovation highlights, and of course there are many others which we continue to work on.

Over to you, Himanshu sir, for funding updates.

I think good afternoon, everybody. Ved had mentioned, and right in the month of October, the investors, Carnelian and SBI, had blessed us with this project.

Due to, as he said, the fall in the share price, I think the warrants could not be subscribed by the Carnelian Group. Although we are thankful to those investors for at least investing into the company.

When it came to the board somewhere around October or November, the challenge was that a ₹73 crore warrant, which tantamount to about ₹146 crore to come from the bank, and an escalation of roughly about ₹75 crore totally brought a ₹300 crore shortfall. In the month of November, when we were doing the board meeting, it was imperative for the board that somebody gets involved and come so that we can come out with a solution.

I think the bigger challenge in the entire game was to convince the bankers, which was the step A1, that if they would have given the pari-passu, then it would have been a smaller funding to the extent of ₹100 crore. The management team tried its level best, but the bankers did not convince to give pari-passu to the new lender coming into place.

That is why we had to go into a total funding of overhauling the entire project because the essence of the project lies in the project getting started rather than just starving for money in the entire project. All our wealth and everything lies only in the fact faster the project is implemented and it starts generating revenue, because it's already been roughly now 2 year 2 2.5 years since the date we launched the entire Jagriti project.

The essence of the funding, I would just like to point out. Basically, the refinancing was done by Neo Group, which replaces the existing bankers.

The revised terms, the way we have done it is the cash outflow for the next 24 months roughly becomes the same. Even if there is a interest or repayments which would have started for the bankers, the cash outflows have been carved out in a mechanism that the company doesn't suffer.

As a part of the revised terms, we get a 4-month moratorium, and there is no principal repayment for 16 months. In this, after even the 4 months, for the next 12 to 18 months, there's a 12% interest.

However, the effective rate will be 16.95%. The facility drawn is in form of debentures of ₹500 crore.

Neo Group also puts in equity, which the shareholders have already approved, to the extent of ₹30 crore, and the promoter infuses ₹85 crore in terms of equity. The security that has been given against this is first charge on the fixed assets and the second charge on current assets, and personal and corporate guarantees of the promoters as well as the associate companies, and the pledge of shares of promoters.

Thank you. Over to you, Mayank sir, for project updates.

Right. Can you play the video.

This is our project site, mill site. This is the PM4 machine that we are building up.

This is the recovery boiler, and this is the power boiler and the turbine. This is some videos during the erection time.

This erection already completed. Okay.

In the Project Jagriti, actually it has taken various phases. We are putting up a brand-new paper machine, which would be giving us a very specialty, the food-grade paper.

In addition to that, to support this, there will be a new recovery boiler. There is a new power boiler and as well 15-megawatt turbine so that we can enhance little our pulp production as well, because right now our recovery is a bottleneck for the pulp, it will give us some boost in our pulp production as well so that entire it will be a balanced to meet the complete pulp demand for our new machine.

Some modification work in our pulp mill and effluent treatment part which was taken already has been completed. PM3, as I said, this one small pending work that will be completing in this month.

Power plant and the recovery boiler will be commissioned in the month of July. These are ready, and that testing work is going on.

The machine that we are expecting though there was some delay in the funds availability, but we are still expecting by end of September, this machine will also be producing. Next.

Okay. Thank you, Mayank sir.

Over to you, Ved, for the next year's plan.

Great. Of course, I understand that there must be concerns from the investors looking at last year's performance, but we are confident of bringing things back onstream, and these are the big hairy goals for next year.

Let's start with those, Pranay. Of course, first and foremost, we realize as a team, we have to work really hard to effectively commission Project Jagriti, which part of it is already commissioned, but I think in the next month, we will see another couple of power plants like our power plant and recovery coming onstream, and then another 3 to 4 months, we should start commissioning the paper machine, which takes a couple of months for stabilization.

The paper should be out. As I kind of confirmed before, that we will be doing some pilot runs as well in other machines so that we can start putting the new product out in the market, because it is going to be a little more unique than what we have right now in the market in general.

That's the big one, and we are all focused on that. Of course, as Himanshu said, the money is in the bank now, a lot of things which were lagging behind changes, and we can move much faster and push our vendors to finish the job.

The other one which Shubham mentioned, and we are doing it on both ends. I think Mayank inferred to it as well.

What we are seeing is that there is a certain number of products that our customer needs, and we are trying to do it not just organically, but inorganically. The food services team is building a network of almost 10 suppliers who we are going to provide pulp to and offtake products from.

The big decision that we have taken now is that the Ayodhya plant will be refurbished completely, which means that all the equipment that is there right now is going to be removed, sold, or leased out to the current manufacturing facilities, and we are going to do a cleanup and look at new technologies. At the right time, when we actually have funds, we are going to bring the plant back in.

We do plan to produce food services, but it might have to take a pause at our end. That said, even on the paper side, we are continuing to build our strength in an asset-light model.

We have now reached over 300 tons of outsourced greaseproof. We'll bring it to about 500 tons per month.

We will also try to see if we can enter the lower grammage segment through another tie-up, and as well as flexible packaging through outsourced at least till we have our plant running. Shubham talked about it, and I understand there must be a little bit of concern, and I'm sure there'll be questions later.

On the food services business, we have discussed in depth with the team, and we feel strongly that we have to continue. We have actually even discussed it at the board, and the board is also very clear that this is a segment that we want to make sure we keep building on this segment.

We are going to keep transforming it, and I know what we've seen is there's a lot of passion with Shubham at the helm and the team there, and we are quite confident that this year will see a significant transformation and profitability in the food services division. Of course, we know, and I'm sure there'll be anxiety around the new products.

This has been a challenge in terms of speed, but as we stand today, we are ordering machines to actually start building the delivery range at scale and do the phase one of expansion. The flexi, we are going into pilot runs now.

It is a delicate, interesting, difficult, and possible chemistry that we've been working with, but we are close to at least doing some significant trials at the global stage, and we are hoping for more significant news in the coming quarters. Of course, as you see, there is only that much we can do on the market side, our team, especially the finance team, has taken up a very strong cost optimization effort, which helps us overall, because in difficult times, you can focus more on the cost side, and we are taking up different costs, and we are kind of looking at each one with a magnifying lens.

There is going to be at least a significant cut on the cost side so that we can transform the business and make sure that we deliver on the objectives that we've set out to and also on the trust that you've bestowed on us. I think over to you, Pranay.

You're muted, Pranay.

Sorry. Thank you, Ved.

Before we move on to the questions, Neetika, we want to share the investor meet plan with the

Sure. Thank you.

Just as awaited, we propose to do an in-person investor meet with the next quarter results. My team will revert to you with the finer details, the agenda, and the arrangements.

Thank you, Pranay. Back to

you.

Just adding to Neetika, the request from the investors has been, and we are also very excited to host you in Ayodhya. The target is that we will commission the machine, and say, as Neetika said, in terms of next quarter, say when we end the quarter in September, after that we are going to say the October meeting, it will not be an investor call, or it could be an investor call which is hybrid.

We will request a lot of the investors to come over. It'll give you a lot of confidence when you actually come to the plant and see the action on the ground.

That's the effort, that we will commission the plant or soft-commission the plant and then have you over at the plant for the next investors call.

Thank you. We'll now move to question and answers.

Some ground rules. To ensure that everyone gets a chance, I would request the participants to please limit your questions to two, a maximum of two for one chance, and we can circle back if there are more questions.

You can use the hand raise button on the top, I'll mark you in the queue and go as per first asked question basis. We'll also be active on chat, you can also post your questions over chat, and we'll keep responding there.

I'll just open the floor to Koustubh first. Mr.

Koustubh, you can unmute and ask your question.

Hi, Ved. Thanks for taking my question.

Because of all the back and forth and changes in your guidance over the last few quarters, I'm kind of confused. Now, as we look at it from today's point of view, from a product basket, what will the company be focusing on?

Is the R&D initiatives continuing for the metallized and non-metallized flexible packaging products, as has been earlier communicated? Could you just run us through what the company has stopped focusing on, what is it continuing to focus on, what is the product opportunity of all these R&D initiatives?

That's the first question. Should I mention the second question now, or should I

Go ahead.

You can.

Yeah. The second question is I really want to understand why the promoter is infusing money through optionally convertible instruments.

The reason I'm asking is because the share price has been volatile, and the company is still not in that trajectory of which instills investors with the confidence that the price will appreciate. In case you put in 25% of your funds and then the stock price falls, then that's not really painting a true picture because you won't convert your warrants.

Just wanted to understand why optionally convertible instruments. Then that's not a realistic picture, this ₹85, ₹90 crore, whatever this amount is that you're looking to invest.

These are the two questions.

Great, Koustubh. Great questions, and I'm glad you brought up the flexi first.

Of course, that remains front and center for us. What we've realized is a couple of things in the last few quarters, and we've been working again, as you're aware, with lots of global converters, global companies, and there are two parts of the puzzle.

The first is that when does one bring in the coating inwards? The only time we can do it is when we have the chemistry solved.

The way this works is that the paper gets made. There's a certain amount of coating that you do on the machine.

That we will continue to do, and that closes what we call closing the sheet. Basically the porosity of the paper, which is natural, becomes non-porous.

It will not have any kind of oil or water seeping through. For a flexible pack, you need way more.

You need more barrier chemistry. What has happened is that over the last couple of years, we've been looking at numerous chemistries.

It has been relatively complex because what happens is that there is a certain amount of viscosity, which is basically the kind of the way the chemical flows. What happens is that as soon as you change temperatures, there's a lot of challenge, because these are a lot of new-age chemicals.

What we realized was that And as soon as you buy a machine, it's designed for a certain viscosity. What happens is that the drying area is determined based on what?

Two factors: solids and viscosity in a chemical. What has happened is that we are not at a stage yet where we can be totally sure that it is going to do the production that we want it to, because these are new-age kind of chemistries that we've been working with.

What we've decided is that let's make the base paper, which is non-porous, designed for a flexible pack, continue to feed the market with that product, and try and find usages through the converters to use that product. Now the second part of it within the same question is the converters' appetite.

What happens is when you try and coat barrier chemistry yourself, you're taking a certain amount of business away from the converters. Many times, you kind of cannibalize your relationship.

What happens is that they are not that keen on that happening. We don't want to do it till we are very, very sure of that aspect.

We are now tying up with converters for them to coat and print the paper, rather than us trying to do it. That's the actual situation on the flexi non-metallized side.

On the metallized side, we continue to grow the market, push the market, but of course our hope remains that we are going to keep shifting towards non-metallized, which was always the case. Again, just to repeat Pakka's four principles: home compostable, recyclable in the paper stream, marine and terrestrial safe.

That's the challenge, right, the last two, that what happens is metallized will oxidize in the climate. It might even recycle, that's not a challenge, but when an animal or a fish consumes it, we find that questionable.

It was always a challenge in terms of the chemistry from a metallized aspect, but that said, we will continue to push it till we have a solution on the non-metallized side. Totally focused on it.

We are definitely not giving up on that direction. It has to be done.

As you may have noticed, we've been on the table with global companies on Ellen MacArthur Foundation for the small sachet objective, and we are going to keep building on those relationships as well. It has taken longer, but we remain deeply committed to that direction.

I'll let Himanshu step into the instrument a little more, but just from my side, we will not subscribe to the warrants. The challenge is that as promoters, we can only creep 5% every year.

That's why that it has been done as a optionally convertible instrument, but Himanshu can address that a little more.

I think, Koustubh, Ved answered that question well. I think the basic reason is that once the investor comes into place, there are certain guidelines and frameworks within which the investors operate.

When a promoter comes into place, there is no challenge. At the end of the day, he's put all his stake into the company, and that is how he looks at growing the company and taking the company forward.

I don't think that's a challenge. That's just an instrument.

Even to tell you, the SEBI decided price was about ₹92, which was coming as per SEBI formula, and the money has been put in at ₹110. The primary reason for that was that the book value of the company was ₹109 at that point of time.

Anyway, the promoter has put his skin in the game by giving a premium of 20% to the investors which was there. I think slowly and steadily, because the money is already there in the war chest, it's not that the money is not there in the war chest, at any point of time, the warrants will not fail.

I hope I've been able to answer your question.

Thank you.

Thanks, Koustubh.

Thank you. Thanks, Koustubh.

Mr. Jeet, you can ask your question now.

Hi. I have two questions.

One is related to funding. I think the total amount of NCD is ₹540 crore, right, and not ₹500.

I just wanted to know, what is the end use of this ₹540 going towards? One would be towards refinancing.

What is the refinance outstanding as on 31st March? I could see it's somewhere around ₹307 crore as it's appearing in the balance sheet, but there are some ₹50-₹60 crore of other financial liabilities, and other liabilities of another ₹52 crore.

Out of this ₹540, how much would go towards refinancing, and how much would go towards your incremental debt requirements which were there in the project? Secondly, how do we cater to our incremental working capital requirements?

Because once PM4 comes into picture, you'll have another, whatever, ₹100-₹150 crore of additional working capital limits coming in, right? How do we tie up that?

Because again, we've given all our mortgages and pledges to Neo, right? Just wanted to understand that part.

That's my first question. Second, like you said, you are phasing out all the old machines of Chuk.

Does it imply that the volumes of Chuk will go down for the next two, three quarters? Just wanted to understand that a bit detailed.

Neetika, do you want to tackle the first bit, and then Shubham?

Himanshu is doing that. Go ahead, sir.

No, you go ahead, Neetika. Okay.

Basically you were right on the outstanding that is appearing. The usage of the fund will definitely be repayment of banks first, and then the rest of it goes towards the project.

In terms of the working capital enhancement, some bit of it we have to create stock before the season to be prepared for the machine to start in the mouth. As we go forward, we would definitely be looking at that.

In terms of working capital requirement, I think another differentiation here, Jeetji, would be that the first charge would be on the current assets when it comes to working capital lenders. For them, the only difference is that the pledge is no longer there, which in any case was not with them.

For them, it's just the working capital first charge. Over to you, Shubham.

Himanshu, you might want to add here.

I just want to add. Jeet, ₹540, ₹500 is the NCD, ₹40 is a greenshoe.

That's a cushion that has been built into the system basically, and that greenshoe will always be at the option of the lender. So ₹540, ₹40 crore is greenshoe, because in totally, just see the dynamics of the project.

₹200-₹220 or ₹210-odd crore has already been invested out of equity and internal accruals, and the additional ₹500, ₹30, and ₹85 should be sufficient enough to cover up the project outflow as well as the GST that goes on top of it, because GST is not a part of the project, but that comes as an accrual over a period of time. The end use, definitely.

You said including the LCs issued is roughly about ₹350 to ₹370-odd crore, and the balance goes only in Project Jagriti. The entire effort of the management team basically here is to ensure that Project Jagriti comes to a closure and starts giving benefits at the earliest.

That is how this entire thing has been devised. On the working capital front, Jeet, let me clear one thing.

See, our basic working capital requirement on the balance sheet is only for bagasse as well as for husk. The pulping capacity in this project is only increased from 130 to 180 tons.

Balance finished stock anyway the company keeps only for 15 to 20 days in terms of paper, and about 25 to 30 days in terms of molded products basically. The 50-ton increase of bagasse, if you tantamount into money, per day would yield an additional working capital requirement of ₹20, ₹25, maximum ₹30-odd crore, plus the new products coming into place.

At any point of time, your working capital requirement will not be in the tune of ₹150 crore which you're talking about. It will be between ₹45 and ₹50 crore, but definitely there'll be internal accruals coming and saved into the system, which will not inflate that working capital to that level.

Sorry, just adding to Himanshu, the current account debtors are there, and they will continue to support the company. That has already been discussed with them.

All right. Thank you.

On the tableware front, Jeet, the way we will plan the phasing out of the machines is to ensure that there is no impact on the business. We are in fact growing, our requirements are only increasing month-over-month, and therefore the shutdown of the machines in Ayodhya will happen in sync with our ability to build capacity at outsourced sites.

That will ensure that there is no adverse impact on the business.

Understood. Thank you.

Thank you. The person with GS moniker, you can go ahead and ask your question.

GS.

Hi, Ved. Hi, everyone.

Just wanted to check, we're taking funding at a very high cost. Is there a put/call that we can come out of it at any point in time once we are stabilized?

That's the first question. The second question is what do we see in the near future, say, FY '27 and '28, as the outcomes that we will be happy with in terms of revenues as well as product mix?

Shubham can highlight from a molded perspective, and overall from a company's perspective, maybe Ved, you can guide us. Thank you.

Himanshu, I think first part, you may be better.

Can you repeat the first part? I think I missed out in the entire

I can address and then you can supplement. Absolutely, the way Himanshu and the team have structured the deal is I'm going to call you GS because that's what your tag says.

Sure.

GS, the way Himanshu and the team have structured the debt is exactly how you are seeing it. It's actually a very short-term measure, and we can actually come out without any premium in 15 months.

The idea is, and from a Neo Asset Management side also, they are not people who want to stay in the long term also. Of course, any company cannot keep taking the burden of 17-odd percent in terms of cost.

The idea is that we get over this whole hump in the next year and a half, and replace them again with debtors, and we'll start working on it right away. It won't be that you start working on it then, so that you start structuring the replacement also right now.

Neo also plans to work on it with us. How do you lower the cost of capital at that stage will be our aim.

Of course, the way Himanshu explained in the beginning as well, that the way the cash flow works as well, that you have a 4-month moratorium and then 12% interest literally till there is a turnover of the lenders. The gap that is created between 12 and 17-odd percent is actually paid for at the time of replacement by an additional debt.

Total cost of capital actually doesn't work out to be that high, but Himanshu can explain that a little better than me.

Very interesting question, and I think the basic premise in the way it has been done. You go on the financial numbers.

I think we are financial people and financial investors. It's better to talk.

Till 20 in the financial year '23, '24, and '25, the company was doing a consistent EBITDA of ₹80, ₹85-odd crore basically into the system. Now, because of the pricing pressures and some shutdown issues which Mayank has mentioned, the current year EBITDA has come down.

If the company was supposed to replicate that performance entirely of 20 whatever has been achieved in the last three preceding years, then an ₹80 crore EBITDA to top it up by if your new plant starts So I've always been maintaining this fact that if you look at the financials of the company, the SG&A cost and the team cost constitutes between 29% and 32% today. When actually the new plant would run up, the SG&A and the team cost, which is roughly about between ₹115 and ₹120-odd crore, will not go to ₹200 crore.

It will go to maybe ₹160, ₹170, ₹175, or ₹180 crore. So ₹180 crore means, and if you get an additional top line of say even ₹200 crore, that definitely drops down to about 26%, 27% basically.

Totality on an overall level in 16 months' time, you come to a place where your actual differential EBITDA on a ₹600 crore turnover again increases by ₹18 crore. Then you have the UP subsidy, which has already been approved by the UP State Cabinet, of another ₹12 crore every year that comes into place.

Said that, if bare minimum EBITDA which the company looks at in the next 2 years is roughly say about ₹125 to ₹130-odd crore bare minimum basically. Even if there's an ₹130 crore EBITDA, today what the bankers take?

The bankers take about a 4x on that basically in terms of the EBITDA cover, which is about ₹520 crore, and that's the exact amount of ₹500 crore in terms of NCDs that has been borrowed, apart from the promoters' portion that will have to be seen at that point of time. I don't think in terms of numbers, there is anything.

I'm even not assuming anything practically. Maybe the plant takes 6 months or 9 months to stabilize, then also we are roughly say at about 80%, 90% of that number.

If the management team and the team at the ground is able to turn around the plant faster, then you'll be having a better contribution coming into place. It may be that if in financial year '28, by the end the EBITDA is somewhere around ₹100 ₹140 and ₹150 crore, it's very easy to replace the entire transaction in the next 16, 18 months with that track rate coming into place and coming back to normal.

This just a measure which has been taken, and really want to thank even our earlier investors and even, I think, the Neo team for granting that breather so that this project can be completed.

Thanks for the question. GS, that's a great question.

I'm excited to hear what will make you happy, Shubham and then Mayank, by the end of the year.

Sorry GS, I lost my train of thought along with Himanshu bhaiya's explanation on the funding. Your question was on the product pipeline for the coming year, the products that we'll be focusing on.

Yeah.

What will make you happy as the outcome for the next 2 years? What will make you happy as the outcome on both businesses for the both years, coming year and beyond that, please?

Understood. Fantastic.

Thank you. I think there are three or four exciting things on the food services side that we're working on and that I would hope play out in the next few years.

There's some on the product front, some on the manufacturing. On the product front, I think we're very excited about the delivery opportunity because, again, as a market, it will only grow, grow, grow.

The faster we are able to get a strong product in there, that is a very, very interesting opportunity, and that is why the emphasis of the company since so many quarters to develop something there. It's a very, very big opportunity.

If we can crack that, that'll be fantastic. The other opportunity which is very interesting is on the manufacturing side.

As we kind of mentioned that we'll take a small break as we kind of fix the issues in the plant and think how we want to build that. Again, given our intrinsic advantages of being an integrated mill, we have the potential of being one of the lowest-cost producers in the whole world.

I'm very excited that when we do this again, we would achieve that, and that may give us an unprecedented advantage in the market. The opportunity in the US is very, very exciting because that market is, of course, a lot more developed and larger than the Indian one.

This year is more like a trial run for us in that market, and if we're able to successfully perform there, again, that would represent a very, very big potential for the business in the coming years. I would say these are three things I'd be very excited to work on over the next 2 years.

Thanks, over to you.

Yes, as far as the Ayodhya site is concerned on the paper, the challenging part is, yes, in this year how fast we can do the commissioning and stabilize the machine, and we still expect that by the end of this financial year, we should be able to achieve 60% plus production capacity, and the next financial year we expect 75% plus. That should be a good relief on this, and of course, over and above this, we are looking for a good market support so that whatever the new product we introduce should sell well.

I'll also add to that, GS. In terms of the flexibles, if we have five major brands a part of their portfolio converted to our flexible solution, that'll be great.

I'll add to that, five what also the important part is, the five major converters willing to buy regularly from us will be whatever we produce in Ayodhya, because it will be the effort that is being made is to create something which is truly suitable for the application. If those two things happen, then we would be in a very, very good situation.

Thank you. I have one more question if I can, Pranay.

Sure. Go ahead.

Could you give a bit of insight on market situation right now in terms of the pricing power which we were hit by last year? Because I think Chinese product prices at least have started going up because of whatever measures China is taking.

Will that give us a kind of tailwind as our project comes onstream? Second, what would be the asset turns on this Jagriti project?

If we are spending ₹700 crore, how much turnover are we able to eventually get out of it at the full capacity utilization?

Okay. First things first, in terms of the market, of course, us being very focused on certain specialized segment, we don't typically get hit by the paper cycles, but that said, there is always a ripple effect.

What we have noticed in the market is the typical wrap and carry market that we have focused on so far is definitely got a significant impact, not so much from the Chinese actually, more and I know you meant the Chinese prices going up, but it has been significantly hit from the low-cost waste paper-based producers, which is actually quite a concern for us because waste paper in general should not be applied to food. As we know that in our country, it is possible to bypass the laws.

The laws are there, but they show it as a secondary packaging instead of primary packaging. It does touch food, but I'm sure all of you eat QSR-based food, and you'll realize that the quality of bags and wrappers has been going down significantly.

That said, we have to ultimately focus on our efforts and make sure we find alternative markets, which is what the team has been doing. We do see a lot of traction in certain areas that we have focused on.

There are very, very specialized markets that have grown, started at 50 tons, today at 400, 500 tons a month. Those are specialized applications that the team has found where there's a significant price that we are able to govern.

There is a challenge in terms of overall demand-supply mismatch. There is a certain amount of supply that is coming into the market, and everybody has to find a place, which means that there is a certain challenge that gets created in terms of the market side.

In terms of asset turnover, we are definitely looking at upwards of ₹500 crore in terms of revenue on the base paper. That's the effort.

Of course, things change significantly as we crack the flexible code. Then it becomes a very different asset turnover, but maybe again Himanshu can guide more on that front.

That's a very interesting question. I think see, understand the contours of this.

I think only a paper machine of 100 tons on the base paper is getting added. Rest all is sort of retrofitting in terms of the power, the recovery, the pulp, which is an auxiliary to produce this kind of paper.

I think if you were to go in terms of the project aspect, I think if flexibles comes into place, there's a very simple thing: if a normal base paper is sold today between ₹110 and ₹120 a kg, the flexibles in terms of plastic today is sold at between ₹250 and ₹300 a kg. I'm not going to the per square meter because actually packaging goes on square meter, on the area that is basically covered in terms of the substrate in terms of the food or maybe the substrate that comes into place.

The capacity, if flexibles were come into place, the turnover can go between ₹1,200 and ₹1,500-odd crore additional from this particular site. Otherwise, it will really depend on the kind of paper.

If we are able to do different kind of paper, if we are able to do a glassine paper, maybe the realization goes between ₹130 and ₹150. If you are to do a normal base paper, then it comes between ₹115 and ₹120.

At the peak capacity, it will be between 350 to 500 tons basically in that. More important point is being an integrated facility is on the EBITDA number basically rather than the revenue top line in this particular thing.

That is why the outsourcing thing has been thought by the management team to actually work out on. The EBITDA at the full capacity would be somewhere between 25% and 30% 25% of the entire plant basically.

If I would say today we are doing roughly about 420, 430 at peak, 356 maybe this year because of a 40-day shutdown, then that can go up to basically ₹700 crore, seven between ₹700 and ₹750 crore, assuming that the molded products opportunity that Shubham is saying stays stagnant. If that were to go up, then it can go to a turnover of ₹900 crore, and an EBITDA of about 25% is the more realistic number on the base case.

If flexibles were to the case, then I don't think there is any challenge in terms of the entire thing. A turnover of roughly between ₹1,400 and ₹1,500-odd crore, and with an EBITDA of maybe 22%, 23%-odd percent at that point of time.

That's what the number shows. It's up to the operational team to actually get those numbers now and just go and get those numbers.

Thank you everyone.

Thank you.

Thank you. Mr.

Vansh, you can ask your question now.

Hello, am I audible? Yes.

Yes, you are audible.

Thank you for the opportunity. I just wanted to ask that we can see that revenues have dipped YoY this year.

What can we expect on the top-line front for let's say the next 2 years or so? Secondly, on the margins front also, they have dipped.

Do we expect them to stabilize? If yes, then what margins can we expect for let's say again the next couple of years?

Himanshu, how optimistic do you want me to be?

Not at all. Not at all.

Okay.

That's what my team slams me for, you always show the optimism instead of the realism, as they say. That said, there is a certain revenue that we can generate from the current operations, which has been more or less around the 420-odd mark.

Then there is an additional revenue that we can generate from the new facility, at least the 4, 5 months that we will have of some production and ramping up, as Mayank said, that hopefully reaching or averaging about 60% for the months that we kind of produce. That's the other revenue.

As Shubham said, there are significant plans for growing the food services, so that growth in that revenue from current 60-some crore to higher. That should total to a significant increase.

I won't give you an actual number. In terms of EBITDA margins, we will definitely look to come towards where we were earlier, which was around the mark of 22% to 25-odd percent.

That'll be the effort by the team to reach there. I think I'll leave the calculations to you, and Neetika will be happy with me with that.

Yes. Thank you so much.

Helpful, Ved.

Thank you. Jeet, you have one more question?

One follow-up. I think, Ved, you mentioned the NSRs of ₹140, ₹150 for release paper, glassine paper versus ₹110 for base paper.

While at the same time, you mentioned taking some trials on some European machines right now. Are we clear as on today what are we going to make on PM4?

Is it going to be release paper, or is it going to be base paper?

Are we ready with recipes? Jeet, great question, as usual, and important question as well.

This is something that we have spent a lot of time in the market with. We're going to try and produce both.

It's basically release is the base paper. How do you imagine a flexible?

It's basically a paper that has very low porosity, doesn't absorb too much chemical, and is able to run on the converters' machines. If I'm going to break it down, that's how we see the base papers.

There are different parts of the structure, that's what the role of the base paper is. Release paper is something we had targeted basically because it goes into siliconization.

Silicon is extremely expensive, the way we structure release paper is that it shouldn't absorb any silicon, and people go down to 0.4, 0.5 GSM, or grams per square meter, of coating because the paper is so good in terms of absorbency. That's what we are targeting.

Within release, there are many grades, right? The other grade, which is in common parlance called glassine, is something that you mentioned, which is basically more smooth and a see-through kind of grade.

The way we have envisaged the product, it is basically looks like a glassine and doesn't absorb much grade, so that the buyer has see-through properties in paper and also makes sure that the converter doesn't have to put in too much chemicals. That's how we have envisaged or dreamt of the paper itself.

The part of the pilot machine trials is to make sure that we are not starting with trials when the machine starts. Exactly what you said, there are recipes that have been created to ensure that that product works.

We have worked closely with our paper machine designers and suppliers to create that kind of paper machine to enable that product. Now we want to make sure that we have proof before we make it on the paper machine.

Those are the steps we follow: you kind of create a structure in the lab, the furnish, the chemistry, etc., etc. Then you kind of try it in certain smaller facilities.

Then you go for a pilot before you go in the big machine. That's the stage that we are in.

Typically, when you look at a true glassine, it goes through something called a supercalendering process, which is what makes it like a glass, right? It's very, very smooth, those of you who actually know a glassine paper.

It's like sometimes you see it in medical packaging, or actually a very good example is when you go to an airline and they have those baggage stickers, what comes out from the back, the release of the sticker, and it's actually more expensive than the top, what they call the face or the label that is there. The sticker back is a typical glassine paper, and as you'll realize, it's a little bit see-through, it's a very glassy kind of finish, and that's where the word glassine comes from, but these are all the family of release.

In terms of the pricing, the ranges that we have seen are in between that exact range which you mentioned, about ₹110 to ₹150. The top end is about ₹150, a European kind of product, and a local Indian product can also be around the ₹110 mark.

Of course, as you enter the market, the market tests you, we are not expecting to sell at ₹150 right off the bat, as much as we would love to. We would probably come in somewhere in the middle.

We would try and see how the properties are, and if the properties are way better than the product at ₹110, we will price it somewhere in the middle. In case the machine is struggling in the beginning, which with Mayank there hopefully there'll be less struggle now, if there is a struggle, we'll have to go down towards the ₹110 number.

These are all kind of interim steps, Jeet, as we stabilize. Of course, the holy grail still remains how much of that becomes a barrier-coated paper.

That said, let's stay with the base paper itself, and we will try and creep towards that number of ₹130, ₹140 at least within this financial year or early next year when we stabilize.

Oh, perfect. Thank you so much, and all the best.

Thank you. Mr.

Ravi, you can ask your question.

Thank you for the opportunity. Congratulations on your new hire.

Best wishes to Mr. Mayank Jindal.

I really hope, going forward, the new leadership team will aggressively work towards, the goals. My first question is to Mr.

Shubham. Again, congratulations on the launch of the delivery container, and I really hope we see these containers in our kitchen soon.

In last August, you had shared your goals and vision for Chuk, that is the food services, and we had hoped that we will capture 15% of the market share by 2028. I think that is roughly around ₹680 crore, whatever I think you had mentioned.

Are we still on track for that? Because, even 9 months 9 months have passed, and we have not seen any meaningful growth.

Do you think we are still on track for it, with all the, upgrades that you're planning?

Yes, definitely. I think when we start out, if you're in the world of finance, it's what you call a hockey stick, right?

You lay the groundwork for a lot of things on which you don't see immediate returns, but the return is a accumulation. It was not a switch, right, that we could go suddenly from where we were to 5x.

That kind of growth only comes through making a lot of small, small changes, and those changes and the results of the actions or the measures we've put in place do not come in immediately. They actually compound.

When they do start bearing fruit, it will come all together. We continue to work towards that goal.

We are quite optimistic, and of course in our approach, we keep adapting as well. We keep trying to refine it.

There are things we've planned which work out, some others don't, but we pivot and we find another way. We're quite confident again, as everyone mentioned on the call, this business has a lot of potential.

We are very well positioned to take advantage of that potential. I think with everything we are planning, I'm still quite confident that we'll get there.

All right, all right. Good luck on that.

My second question is to

Mr.

Ved. Ved, as investors have really struggled for the past 1 and 1/2 years, right?

None of us have our smiles back, like we used to have in 2023 or 2024. I think basically, Pakka, I think whatever commitments we have made, we have not met any of the commitments.

My question to you is on the larger goals that we had, either about Guatemala or our 2030 goal of $1 billion in revenues. Are we still chasing that goal?

How soon do you think investors will be rewarded for their patience? I'm talking about those 300 levels where I think even SBI and Carnelian had invested.

Most of us actually invested then, looking at the growth of Jagriti and Chuk. When will we get back there?

Because whatever we have invested, now it's 1/3 of that. It's basically ₹1,000 invested, we are at ₹300 now.

When do you think investors will be rewarded? Thank you.

It's a very pertinent question, Ravi, and we're definitely responsible for that. Let's look at the core of Pakka, why are we here.

The focus and the heartbeat of Pakka is in a singular idea, that how do you leave the planet cleaner? We know we can only do it through scale.

What we are realizing is that, similar to what Shubham said, there is a certain learning curve that we are going through. Absolutely no changes in terms of where we want to get to.

There is absolutely zero changes, and the team is as kind of driven towards that goal of scale. There are a certain setbacks that we've been open about, we have noticed, and in the end, there is no one else to take the blame but us.

Ultimately, we have to take the responsibility of the delays in products, the delays in funding, the delays in projects, the delays in or shifting of goals as well. We feel that that's the journey.

That's the journey we are on, and we will have to continue on that journey. Of course, there is a larger kind of responsibility in place for us to try hard.

That's what we are going to do. We'll continue to march in that direction.

We are going to keep trying our level best and tweaking as we go along. Like you've noticed, Mayank comes in with a lot of experience and ability.

Of course, me personally having a partner like Mayank or Shubham, all the people on the screen, Neetika, Himanshu, is a huge gift, right? Because obviously there is no one person that actually carries out this effort.

Of course as a team, we remain very closely knit and directed towards our vision, and we will continue to support each other through the challenges. Shubham is making significant pivots, right, as we are faced with challenges.

He still feels that 2 years down, there'll be a very different revenue number and a profit number which we've all been waiting for. Our effort will remain in that direction.

Guatemala, US is a pause, as Shubham mentioned that he's still very buoyant on the US market. Yes, he will not be able to nearshore it, but he'll keep supplying from India, at least the Indian revenue kind of grows.

We might keep the Pakka Inc. company alive to be able to keep nurturing that goal.

Guatemala again is a dream that we want to work towards. There's a enormous amount of groundwork that has gone in.

The project is literally ready with detailed engineering, which is a huge effort it takes kind of to do that. We've kind of put all the partners there on pause, that guys, we are coming back, but let us stabilize India first.

Very similarly our board as well. The board is as committed.

In fact, we were at a board meeting a couple of days back, and we mentioned our kind of trepidation to the board, and the board was absolutely adamant that we have to put in our absolute best for the vision we have taken. The board is also with us, with that, that gives us a lot of confidence.

We are totally responsible for eroding your wealth, and we want to make sure that we do right by you. We're extremely thankful for the investors to stand by.

We've seen large and small investors have faith in the company and stand with the company. What we will continue to do is do our job, which is to ensure that we scale, we are profitable, we grow the top line, more importantly we grow the bottom line, and we will continue to engage with you come what may, right?

Even if we have faltered, even if we have kind of not delivered on the goods that we promised, we will continue to engage, continue to make sure that we win your confidence of transparency, and hope that, as one or two of these products click, there'll be a different feel in the market again. That's the trajectory we'll be on, and we'll definitely hope that the faith that you have bestowed on us is well rewarded.

All right. Thank you, Ved.

On a lighter note, when do you think Pakka will be a $1 billion company?

Don't ask me. My finance team will kill me now.

Earlier than later. I've already got enough flak from my finance team that you have to keep the internal goals internal.

I'm internalizing them now. The effort will be in that direction, for sure.

At least we investors thought by 2028 it'll be a $1 billion company. I'm not talking about the revenues, I'm talking about the market cap with your Guatemala and Jagriti.

Unfortunately, we are sub-₹400 crore, and it is very hard to see that for us. Hopefully, in the next 2 years, we'll bounce back.

Best wishes and good luck. Thank you.

Thank you. There are no more questions.

Ved, we can close the call with your closing note. We have one more question.

Yes, Mr. Prabhakar, you can go ahead with your question.

Hi. We have taken a 400 ₹500 crore debt, right?

How much soon we can close that? Because interest may be ₹60 crore for a year.

Maybe I am wrong. How much soon we can close, because it is very hard if you get lower profits.

That interest will eat complete company money. How much early we can close that?

Himanshu, that one is for you, or Neetika. Go ahead.

Okay. Sorry, I missed the last one, but you said how much close do we close at?

What did you say the last line?

The debt, how much early we can close that we have taken the amount ₹500 crore?

I think the idea is to do it the earliest we can. When you say that the entire earnings would be taken up by the interest, that is slightly incorrect.

I think we do have even with the EBITDA that we are at present, we do have a lot of room for our internal accruals being invested. I think I would not want to give a number here, but I would just say that we would want to make it the earlier we can.

Let me not be very optimistic and say that it'll be this many years. I'm open to Himanshu sir if he wants to add a number to what I said, but yeah.

Prabhakarji, that's an interesting question. Even if we were to go to the bank debt route, I think the interest outflow on ₹500 crore would have been ₹50 crore, if not ₹60 crore.

That delta is not that much. The only thing is it's not the interest closure, it's how fast can we commence Jagriti project and how fast can we bounce back to all our performances in terms of food services as well as the Jagriti plant that will actually make a difference to the company.

In my honest view, at least for the first quarter, there would be not very significant change, but definitely changes can be visible from the second quarter onward in terms of the trajectory. The faster we bounce back, I think the faster we will be able to replenish and move out to this loan.

Yes, it will take a minimum of 15 to 16 months to actually wipe out this particular high-cost debt that has come into the system. If it's faster, it's better for the investors, because then everything bounces back at the end of the day.

Minimum, it should take about 15 to 16 months to bounce back. Okay.

Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you, everyone.

I think we can close now. Ved, any closing notes from you?

Thank you all once again for constantly supporting the company. I know it's been tough times, as some of you mentioned, but I can give you my team's commitment that we will leave no stone unturned, work really hard to make sure we honor your trust and responsibility that you've bestowed on us.

Thank you so much for being here on the call and taking the time. We look forward to seeing you in person in October.

Thank you all.

Thank you. Thank you, everyone, for joining us today.