Thank you, Shruti. Good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to Pondy Oxides and Chemicals Limited's earnings call to discuss Q1 FY27 financial performance.

Today, we are joined by Mr. Ashish Bansal, Chairman and Managing Director; Mr.

K. Kumaravel, Director Finance and Company Secretary; Mr.

R. S.

Vaidyanathan, Executive Director; Mr. Vijay Balakrishnan, Chief Financial Officer; and Mr.

Pratik Gupta, Associate Vice President Operations. We must remind you that the discussion on today's call may include certain forward-looking statements and must be therefore viewed in conjunction with the risks that the company faces.

May I now request Mr. Ashish Bansal to take us through the company's business outlook and financial highlights, subsequent to which we will open the floor for Q&A.

Thank you and over to you, sir.

Thank you, Sana. Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining us for POCL's Q1 FY27 earnings call.

I hope you've had the opportunity to go through our financial disclosures available on the exchanges. I'll walk you through the key strategic updates, operational progress, and financial performance followed by a Q&A session.

We have started FY27 on a strong footing, with Q1 FY27 revenue, EBITDA, and PAT growing by 56%, 30%, and 32% year-on-year respectively. I'm pleased to share that our copper vertical continued its strong momentum in Q1 FY27, achieving the highest-ever quarterly production and sales, with both volumes increasing by more than three times on a year-on-year basis.

These results reflect the strength of our integrated business model, our focus on value-added products, and our commitment to delivering sustainable and profitable growth. Before turning to the financial performance, I would like to highlight the key strategic initiatives that have supported our strong start to the year and are strengthening the foundation of POCL's long-term growth and value creation.

Our copper expansion project continues to make encouraging progress. We are establishing a 36,000 metric ton per annum copper cathode facility at our Thervoy Kandigai plant in Tamil Nadu, with a total investment of approximately INR 200 crores, fully funded through our internal accruals.

We have already incurred around INR 25 crores towards the project, and execution remains on schedule, with major equipment orders finalized and key construction activities underway. The first phase of 18,000 metric tons per annum is on track for commissioning by December 2026, with trial runs expected in Q4 FY27, while Phase 2 is targeted for commissioning by Q3 FY28.

This project marks a key milestone in strengthening our non-ferrous portfolio and expanding our value-added copper vertical. The facility will leverage integrated pyrorafining and electro-refining technologies to produce LME Grade A copper cathodes, further enhancing our vertical integration capabilities.

Upon commissioning, the project is expected to improve our product mix, enhance margins, and drive profitability through value-added copper products. It will also create operational synergies, support import substitution, increase the use of recycled copper, and further reinforce our commitment to sustainability and long-term value creation.

The incremental 6,000 metric tons per annum copper recycling capacity commissioned in Q4 FY26 has ramped up well and is expected to achieve capacity utilization of approximately 75% through FY27. These investments will strengthen our copper vertical, enhance value addition, and support our long-term growth strategy.

CRISIL has upgraded POCL's outlook to A/Positive from A/Stable while reaffirming its credit ratings, recognizing its strong balance sheet and sustained financial performance. Building on these strategic developments, our operational and financial performance in Q1 FY27 reflected the resilience of our business and disciplined execution across the organization.

While lead production and sales volumes moderated during the quarter, it was a conscious strategic decision to prioritize value-added products amidst supply chain disruption and production constraints that enabled us to achieve our highest-ever lead EBITDA per ton of INR 21,595. Copper production and sales volumes increased by more than 3x year-on-year in Q1 FY27, supported by the ongoing ramp-up of the additional capacity.

The segment delivered strong profitability, with copper EBITDA per ton rising 66% year-on-year to INR 48,488. Copper is expected to contribute approximately 45% of our overall revenue in FY27 as capacity ramp-up progresses.

Coming to financial performance for Q1 FY27, revenue growth remained robust during Q1 FY27, with revenue increasing to INR 931 crores, registering 56% year-on-year growth. The overall sales mix between domestic and export markets stood at 55% and 45% respectively.

Between the lead and copper verticals, the export mix stood at 55% and 25% respectively. Within the lead vertical, value-added products accounted for 85% of the segment revenue, reinforcing our strategic focus on increasing the share of higher-margin products.

EBITDA and PAT increased by 30% and 32% on a year-on-year basis to INR 56 crores and INR 36 crores respectively. In Q1 FY27, EBITDA and PAT margins remained strong at 6% and 3.9% in Q1 FY27.

On a consolidated basis, the same momentum continued, with revenue, EBITDA, and PAT increasing by 55%, 33%, and 43% year-on-year respectively, driven by higher volumes, improved product mix, and enhanced operational efficiencies. As we move forward, we remain confident in our long-term growth journey.

Our Target 2030 roadmap is focused on delivering over 15% volume growth, 20%-plus CAGR in revenue and profitability, EBITDA margins above 8%, ROCE exceeding 20%, and deriving over 60% of our revenue from value-added products. The ramp-up of expanded lead capacities, ongoing copper capacity additions, increasing contribution from value-added products, forward integration initiatives, and our continued focus on operational excellence and sustainability position us well to deliver profitable growth, enhance shareholder returns, and create long-term value for all our stakeholders.

Thank you for your continued trust and support. I would now like to open the floor for questions.

Over to you.

Hi, sir. Thank you for taking up the question.

Sir, you've guided in last quarter for around 1.25 lakh tons to 1.3 lakh tons of lead volume sales for FY27. Based on current quarter's run rate, do you expect another maybe 1 1.1 lakh tons of sales for next three quarters, or do we see any revision of this?

Good afternoon, Dheeraj. As you're aware, the whole supply chain issues through the quarter they were a little constrained, and that is the main reason, and we hope to achieve and catch up to the volumes, but we'll have to see how the whole supply chain pans out over the next one or two months.

We are confident at least we will be able to close up to the numbers that we had committed over the last quarter.

Okay. Since you're importing majority of copper scrap, but copper has seen a very good growth while there's only problem in lead industry.

Could you explain briefly on why is this only being facing in lead recycling while not in copper?

It is more of the regional placement. Of course, we are also importing copper, but the copper material coming across from a few other locations as well.

Copper has just started, when you look at the volume growth, you look at multifold growth, wherein lead already being at very high volumes, you see that differential not showing as much. It's more of a locational advantage little bit, and little bit to do with the supply chain from the kind of countries that the copper scrap was imported from.

Okay. Got it.

Do you see any these difficulties or challenges being relaxed as of now? Or do we see this increasing going forward?

As of now, it is status quo, and I'm not too sure, but I don't think it looks like it should increase more, but as of now, it'd be a little early to comment on the same.

Okay. Last question, sir.

What is our capacity utilization for our new 72,000 ton TKD plant of lead? What is the one for 6,000 tons of the new copper plant that you commenced last quarter?

On the TKD new capacity, because here we mainly do more of our pure lead product, the capacity utilization is below 50%. As you're aware, we had concentrated more this quarter having lower volumes to keep up the margins more on the value-added part.

Almost 85% of our production has been from the value-added production. Hence, the new facility's capacity utilization has been a little low versus the other unit has been a little higher.

In terms of copper, almost 75% of the capacity is being utilized on the additional capacity added.

Just a follow-up, this 75% that you are saying is on the new capacity that commenced in copper?

Yes, including the old and the new, 75% overall is being [crosstalk].

Overall. Okay.

Thank you, sir.

Thank you.

Yeah. Thank you for the opportunity.

Sir, my first question was just a follow-up on previous participants on the lead utilization. I understand that the lead utilization is low because of the difficulty in getting the scrap as well as in sales, actually.

I wanted to understand, is there a softness in demand as well, because we are not exposed to Middle East, we are more exporting to the European countries. Is there a demand slowdown as well as in the Western part as well as what we have seen in the Middle Eastern region?

Basically, first of all, our exports are not to the European countries. They are predominantly more to Southeast Asia and the likes.

In terms of what you call demand softening, no, there's no demand softening, but there has been only supply chain delays because of which volumes have been lower and all of those. Okay.

When do you see the demand on track, at least in H2, or will this softness in demand continue in FY27 for lead?

Like I said, there is no softness in demand. There is a gap in supply because of delay in shipments and the supply chain disruptions, but overall, the demand is intact.

Okay. Fine, sir.

My second question was related to our cost pressures, sir. The other expenses were up 16% YoY and 44% sequentially.

Is this only because of this increase in the freight forwarding costs, and the increase in the logistics cost or is there something else also in this one?

See, logistics is a small part of increase, which is a part of it definitely, yes, but that does not contribute to the major part. The major part is contributed by the fuel prices and a couple of additives prices that have shot up in the last three months.

Hello?

Yeah. Thank you so much for the opportunity.

Firstly, I wanted to understand that the current quarter you have attained highest-ever realization and EBITDA per ton on the lead side. What you will be guiding for the lead EBITDA per ton and the realization going forward, or it's a one-time only?

See, this Vijay. This time, our value-added mix was about 85%.

As we said in the past, whenever we do more of value-added, the EBITDA range will be around INR 19,000 to INR 21,000. Since predominant portion of this lead volume comprises of value-added, we achieved this volume.

Moving forward, when the volumes increase, we will be able to retain the sustained EBITDA level of about INR 18,000 to INR 20,000 per metric ton. That is a sustainable level of EBITDA that will be maintained.

What you tell? 17,000 to 18,000 will be sustaining EBITDA?

That is the number what we have INR 18,000 to INR 20,000 per metric ton EBITDA levels. That is a sustainable level, which we can attain moving forward.

Got it. Secondly, on the copper side plant, how is the capex going on, and what will be the outlook like?

It will be starting your 18,000 ton metric ton it was expected to start in the September, right? How is the capex going on on that side?

Correct me if I'm wrong, your question is what is the capex that's already been done on the copper part, and if, as you are thinking it's September month, will it start in September? Is my question right, my understanding?

Yes, yes. Yes,

yes.

Currently, all the machine orders are in place and they're almost ready for inspection. We have spent approximately INR 25 crores out of this thing, and the further part of spending will happen in this quarter.

Our commitment on starting the trial production was December 2026 and not September 2026. September 2026, the machine installations will start around September end, and will take about October, November for the machine installations and the trial productions to happen in December, and which is on track.

Got it. Lastly, if you can give what volume you are expecting on both the lead side and the aluminium and lead and the copper for the '27 and '28?

We'll revert with those volume guidance shortly with you, yes, always. Yeah.

Thank you so much, sir.

Thank you.

Hi. Thanks for the opportunity.

Just wanted to understand how much of the sourcing is coming from the Middle Eastern trade routes, because it is not just you, it is the whole industry that has highlighted to these supply chain issues, so that would be helpful.

Our Middle Eastern procurement is well below 5%, but the issue more than the Middle Eastern procurement is the supply chain in terms of the shipping route that is through the Hormuz and all of those, which are getting delayed. That is the main issue, and because of which the whole delay is happening.

Sure. If these delays persist because of the XYZ reasons, how do we trying to mitigate it?

We are looking at alternative sourcing, and we have already started working on it from our Southeast Asian and other South American and other region suppliers. We are trying to push for more supplies from these regions.

Okay. Then that would be at the similar pricing that you are buying right now, or it could be at the higher end?

Technically, it should be at the similar pricing, but it all depends again on the inward freight costs and all of those, we'll have to see as the material starts being offered.

Got it. Got it, sir.

In terms of the plastics and aluminium division, where are we in terms of what is the ramp-up, etc. over there?

Plastics division for this quarter, it has turned profitable. We have achieved about INR 15 lakhs in terms of net profit.

We did about 800 tons approximately, and we are preparing for doing value additions in the quarters to come. With respect to aluminium, we are doing a small quantum, about 200 metric tons, that is what is the production right now in terms of both these verticals.

Got it, sir. One last question: for the full year, what should be the expected value-added mix for lead?

Because this quarter was extremely high at 85%. I'm sure as things improve, it would come down.

What would be the sustainable mix of value-added for lead?

Annually we are looking at around 65% to 70% on the value-added mix.

Got it.

Last year was at about 60% 63%, and this year we are expecting and targeting around 65% to 70%. Sure.

In Q1 FY26, how much it would be?

85%.

No, last year same...

You're talking about the last year. Last year was about 55% approximately.

Oh, okay. Got it.

Got it. Thank you so much.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Sir, thank you for the opportunity. Most of the questions that have already been answered.

One last question is on the capex side. The guidance that you have allocated to us, Rs 175 crore for the financial year '27, which you have already disclosed in investor presentation.

Out of this 175 crore, can you please break down that how much is the growth capex and the maintenance capex out of this?

The current 25 crores is for the fresh capex that has already been spent. Out of approximately that 175 crores, the maintenance capex will be in the range of 20 25 crores, and balance of 140 to 150 crores would be for the copper new plant addition.

Sir. Sir.

Thank you, sir. That's all my side, and best of luck for the future.

Am I audible, sir?

Yes.

Thank you for the opportunity, sir. I just wanted to understand on copper, as we are ramping up our copper capacities, from sourcing point of view, how should we think about copper scrap security?

We are seeing that global supply is tightening especially on the copper side as well, and more and more countries are looking to keep more of scrap within their boundaries. Are we seeing any kind of sourcing problems, especially on the copper side going forward?

What is our take on that?

Currently, most of our copper sourcing is on imports, with little more diversified different countries than where we are doing our lead predominantly. We are also looking at copper from domestic sourcing, which would contribute about 25% to 30% going forward.

A lot of which we have also started looking at it currently. The sourcing model for scrap going forward will have to be extremely dynamic in terms of being able to quickly switch over to domestic and versus imports.

It has to be a dynamic function of the whole process. As we go forward, we'll have to keep making it stronger.

Got it, sir. Very helpful.

Just on the lead side, we understand that it's not a demand issue right now, but majorly a sourcing issue, we are facing supply chain issues because of this Middle East crisis. If this crisis persist, say, for the next one two or three months, how are we planning to source our scrap on the lead part, because again our lead imports are quite high?

See, when we say sourcing, it is more of the shipping delays and all of it which is happening. Already we have started looking into other regions like the Southeast Asian region and a little more on the domestic part of it.

Going forward, the specific shipping routes will have to be avoided, because of which the sailing time would be a little longer, and maybe a little impact on the pricing in terms of raw material overall, but it will find its balance in the due course. It's not going to be perennial.

Got it, sir. Just one small follow-up on that.

Does that lead to working capital...

Whenever there's a war, post war the scrap generation is also multifold, due to all the calamities that happened during the war.

Thank you, sir. Just a quick follow-up on that.

With routes being elongated, does that stretch our working capital also? Do we see that kind of working capital being stretched at least for next one or two quarters?

No, our working capital is not stretched if you look at our current numbers. Our payment cycle is when the material arrives closer to the port, that's about a week before the arrival of the material, so that still stays in place.

That has not impacted our working capital cycle.

Thank you, sir. That's very helpful.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Hi. Thanks for taking my question, and congratulations on great numbers in a tough environment.

My first question is on the copper EBITDA per ton. If I can recall rightly, I think last quarter you had guided for 35 to 40,000 on a normalized basis before the value addition kicks in.

This quarter again we have surpassed last quarter's EBITDA per ton in copper. What kind of guidance would you like to provide before value addition for the copper EBITDA per ton for the full year?

Thank you, Jigar. You're exactly right.

We had guided at 35 to 40,000, but with our increased capacity right now from 6,000 with the addition of 6,000, we are able to get little more efficiencies back into our operations and translate that into the sales pricing. Also because of good amount of volumes, we are able to compress a little bit on the working capital cycle in terms of overall cost on that basis, we are able to bring down by a couple of basis points.

In addition to that, currently in this quarter, we also had a little run-up due to the demand situation in terms of availability, we were able to get little more premium on the selling side on copper. Nevertheless, looking at going forward margins on this, we should be able to do in excess of 40,000, which mainly is driven through the efficiencies that we've gotten through our increased capacities and some machine additions and all of those.

We can safely guide above 40,000 would be for the part which was earlier 35 to 40,000.

Okay. Sir, on volumes also, I think we had guided 12,000 tons for copper.

Again, first quarter we have done about 4,000, we are already at 75% utilization. Can we expect some more ramp-up in this, or should we expect that 4,000, 4,500 should be the run rate till the new capacity kicks in?

We will have our new capacity kicking in the last quarter, definitely the last quarter we will have the capacity benefit of the new capacity coming in as well. Till then, we will be pushing hard on the existing capacities whatever we have and see what maximum we can do.

Understood, sir. Sir, lastly, just a question on copper.

Right now when we say copper cathodes, right now till what stage do we do the scrap processing? Do we just do the ingots, or do we do the anodes also as of now?

Just wanted to understand where...

Anode is a part of the new project that's coming up. From the scrap processing to anode, anode to cathode will be a part of the new process that comes.

Currently, we are doing the basic pre-processing in terms of shredding, chopping, sorting, and a small amount of melting as well into some remelted kind of an ingot or a billet, but majority is pre-billet condition, pre-melt. Then

when we target Q3 FY27 18,000 tons, that would be till cathode and not till anode? Is the understanding correct?

The installed capacity what we are establishing for 18,000 tons will be till the end product cathode.

Understood. Sir, lastly, any plans that you have formalized on forward integration from copper cathode into busbars, wire rods, or any value-added products that you're looking at as of now?

We are on the way of finalizing, but right now we don't have a confirmed product which we will be announcing. As we get to our final production stages on the cathode, we will come out and announce our further plans of forward integration.

Sure. Lastly, any update on lithium-ion, or we are still at pilot stage is there?

Mr. YB will speak a little more on the lithium-ion.

Hi. Since the industry is still evolving, we are still contemplating and working with some strategic technical partners because predominantly in India only the LFP chemistry is available, and wherein the recovery extraction is about 1.5% to 2%, and rest the iron phosphate is not of much demand and much value.

We are just monitoring the entire feedstock arrival and the other challenges like the evolving technology and other stuff. Once we kind of convince ourselves in terms of what to and how to go about it, and we will surely let all of you know about it.

Sure. Okay.

Thank you so much and best of luck for future. Thank you.

Thank you for the opportunity. I hope I am audible.

Yes, you are.

Yeah. Sir, I wanted to firstly understand in this quarter our value-added mix was 85%, and that has been the historical high, I believe.

Was this due to the supply constraints or was this because of a customer demand?

Basically, when we had some supply constraints, we did discuss with our customers where we spoke to them and insisted because they're customers who take the value-added products are specifically dependent on specific suppliers for value-added products. We requested them if they could take the basic pure lead and other products from elsewhere and take the value-added products from us.

We were able to convert those into the orders. If you see basically our value-added products have been sold as they were in terms of volume, but since the pure lead volume did come down, the percentage is at 85%."

Understood, sir. Just a follow-up on that, assuming the similar situation continuing in this quarter as well, do our customers have the bandwidth to accept more value-added products in the lead segment?

I don't get the question. You mean bandwidth to accept more in the sense?

Sir, in this quarter we did 85% of value-added, which helped us achieve an EBITDA of 21,500 something. Do our customers have the requirement of additional value-added products in this quarter as well, or because I believe that yearly there is a certain demand that has to be met for value-added, and post that we can supply only alloys to them?

Yes, please.

Yeah. Sir, I just wanted to understand how conveniently we can shift our value-added mix that helps us attain higher EBITDA per ton, as in your answer you said that this was a one-time event that because of supply chain issues you requested your customers to take higher value-added products.

No, no, no. I'll again explain the same thing to you.

We did not request our customers to take higher volume of value-added products. We requested our customers to take the basic pure lead product from any other supplier because that's more easier to procure, wherein value-added products are supplier-specific.

When our volumes of the pure lead dropped, in totality if you see the percentage, it was 85%.

Understood, sir.

We concentrated to see that we don't drop the volume of the value-added products from where it is, and rather drop the volume of the lower-profitability product and continue with whatever best we can do in the amount of raw material that was available at that point in time.

Understood, sir. Just one last question.

In the last concall, I guess there was some receivables around 110 15 crores that we had to receive in April. What's the status on that, and how...

That was received then. It's because same day it was received on April 5th itself.

During the concall itself, it was told the negative cash flow was due to there was a vessel delay which was supposed to be around the last week of this thing and moved to April 1st, 2nd, hence we received that payment on April 5th, and that's what showed the cash flow to be negative, but that was received on April 5th.

Understood, sir. At the end of the quarter, what is our working capital cycle?

Currently we are at 46 days.

Great.

Versus 53 days earlier.

Understood, sir. Thank you so much and all the...

We have positive cash flow as well, yeah.

Yeah. Thank you, sir.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

Thank you for the opportunity, sir. Sir, I understand that by end of this financial year we will be having 12,000 metric tons of copper recycling, 36,000 metric tons of copper cathode.

How much of this we will use captive recycled copper for the copper cathode, and the balance amount where will we be sourcing our copper pre-melt from? Because I wanted to understand in different scenarios what could be our margins and what could be the EBITDA per ton.

Like when we are doing copper cathode from own pre-melt and when we are doing copper cathode by sourcing it from outside.

By the end of this financial year, we will have installed capacity of 18,000 metric tons of cathode, and by Q3 of next financial year, we'll have the balance 18,000 on stream. We will be using almost close to 70% 80% of our in-house recycled material or basically the idea of using in-house would be the lower grade will be used for our production, and the higher grade will be sold off as it is, because on the higher grade of scrap as much value addition will not make sense.

That kind of processing cost everything, so that will be sold as of. Apart from that, we have tied up for sourcing of various other kinds of copper scrap that will be used for this melt.

The what we had guided was a blended margin profile on this should be in the range of around 60 65,000. As of now, we still hold the same unless until we start, and of course as we start and we go through couple of months, efficiencies will definitely kick in.

We are sure that we will be able to increase the number on that, but a bare minimum of 60 to 65,000 per ton will be achieved on this cathode part. Got it, sir.

Got it. Sir, since we have higher copper cathode facility, are we also planning to increase our copper recycling facility for the backward integration from 12,000...

We most probably will, but we will look at it at that point in time based on the raw material mix that we wish to push in for our production.

Got it, sir. Got it.

Sir, next question was on the lead side. Sir, given the disruption that we have seen in the current quarter on the lead, but still our sourcing mix was 97% for international.

Any specific reason that why we didn't go for more domestic sourcing despite the disruption in the international channels?

Yes, the domestic pricing, because the domestic market understanding that there is a delay, the price delta was so high that if we had gone in for more domestic sourcing, our overall profitability in terms of per kg EBITDA would have drastically dropped. It did not really make too much of sense to push in to go for domestic sourcing and wipe out the profitability as well.

Got it, sir. Thank you so much.

All the best for the next quarter.

Thank you.

Hello. Thank you.

Good evening for taking my question. Firstly, congratulations on a good set of performance in a very challenging environment, sir.

Sir, just wanted to know a lot of my questions have been already answered. On the lead side, sir, are we still seeing that big supply chain issue right now happening?

Will it hamper our Q2 as well, because the war doesn't seem to be getting over anytime soon, and even if it does, the shipping lines might not come to full force right now. What would be your outlook and view on the current Q2 happening?

As well as if we have to hit our guidance of nearly 1 120 1,20,000, then we would have to do sizeably in H2. Do we have enough capacity for that, sir?

See, in terms of capacity, yes, we have the capacity to do that. In terms of will it continue for Q2, I would love to be optimistic that it should not continue for Q2.

The first month has been a little better than the last three months, but hoping that things will be better, but we have to only wait and watch how things pan out on the supply disruption side as of now. We might not be able to give you an extremely concrete answer.

Maybe another month down the line, we might have more concrete answers, but at this moment, we stay as optimistic that it should end.

Oh, okay. Fair.

Fair enough, sir. Sir, just wanted to know, in FY28 when our the new cathode capacity comes in, what kind of volume are we expecting from copper in FY28?

A rough range will also do, sir.

I didn't get your question. We'll be expecting what?

In copper, FY28, from the 18,000, what would be the capacity utilization ramp-up that we can see, sir?

In FY28, we're confident we'll be able to utilize over 80% 90% of the capacity of 36,000 metric tons.

Of 36,000 we will be able to do yeah. That's it from my side, sir.

Thank you so much, sir.

Thank you.

Hello. Hello.

Yes, please. You're audible, yes.

Am I audible?

Yes, please.

Thank you for good set of results. Sir, mera question ye tha, jaise hamare copper ki ab jo revenue mein percentage hai, wo lead se zyada ho chuka hai.

Toh jaise ki jab tak hamara cathode live nahi aata, jaise ki aap keh rahe hain December mein wo aayega, toh hamare jo do quarter honge, toh unme thoda hum jo EBITDA margin hai, toh hum thoda kam hi assume karke chalein unko? Thoda sa hit

leke chalein? Kis cheez mein?

Margin mein hit kyu hoga? In absolute quantum, the margin will be much higher, right?

Nahi, jaise abhi is quarter mein hamara copper ka jo percentage hai wo bada hai ekdum se, toh thoda sa EBITDA margins pe thoda sa de-grow

hua hai. Aap isko value mein dekh rahe hain ki percentage

mein dekh rahe hain? Haan, nahi sir, EBITDA margins, sir.

Correct. EBITDA margin, aap isko value mein dekh rahe hain ki percentage mein dekh rahe hain?

Sir, percentage mein. Toh

you'll be happier if it is 9%, but it's still, for example, 50 crores versus if it is 70 crores, but it is only 8%. You are saying you'll be happier at 9% and 50 crores?

I'm just trying to understand. Okay.

Thank you, sir. Thank you.

Absolutely, in the absolute quantum numbers, it will be much higher because per ton realization on copper margins will be at cathode level be in the range of about 65,000 versus lead being at 20 21,000. Accordingly, if you look at percentage, it'll be slightly lower, but in terms of absolute quantum, it'll be much higher.

Ji, aur

sir jo hum apna 8% ka EBITDA margins ka target leke chal rahe hain, toh wo matlab gradually wo kab tak 8% hum achieve kar sakte hain?

We will be able to have a blended 8% by 2030 is what we have given the target, but we are confident we'll achieve much before that.

Okay. Thank you so much.

That's it from my side.

Thank you.

Thank you so much and great set of numbers in this environment where peers couldn't perform. I just had a question.

Now once your entire copper capacity comes on stream next year, we should be able to do around 28-odd thousand tons. Now this is going to be a mix of cathode, which is going to do 60,000-plus, and your base copper recycling.

How should we look at the EBITDA per ton in FY28 for this 28-odd thousand tons, our blended EBITDA per ton?

In FY28, we will have the complete capacity of 36,000 metric tons of cathode by itself. We should be able to do in excess of 30,000 tons of cathode by itself.

Most of our recycling material that we generate, almost about 70% to 80% will be internally consumed into the cathode plant and only about 20% of which would be sold to the outside market. As of now, in the initial feasibility stage, we are guiding on the cathode side approximately 60 65,000 per metric ton on the cathode, and recycling in excess of 40,000.

What will be the recycling volumes?

As of now, we are having a volume of 12,000 tons, definitely that'll be fully utilized.

Even in FY28, we can assume 12,000 of copper recycling and around 30,000 of copper cathode?

Technically the 12,000 should be higher by FY28, but as of now, till we don't install the capacity, I would not commit that the 12,000 will be higher. Copper cathode capacity will be 36,000, and we are saying that comfortably we'll be producing and selling, over 30,000.

I'm only still taking a delta of 20% and speaking that we'll be at 30,000 tons and above. Understood.

Sorry, I'm slightly confused. Today, our copper recycling capacity is 12,000, correct?

You don't have cathode yet. You're going to commission it in December.

In FY28, when you do 30,000 volumes, what will be your volumes of your base business, which is 12,000 today? The capacity, just not the volume, if you can give me.

Like I said, as of now, it's 12,000 unless we add more capacity, which we most likely might add. Until I add, I will not be able to commit, but we will definitely look into the kind of raw material available and according to that, we will have our processing lines come into place.

Understood. Have you decided on your...

queue... Fine.

No worries. Thank you so much.

Yeah. The copper recycling that we have is 12,000, and by the end of complete expansion, we will have a cathode capacity of 36,000 tons.

Now 60 to 65,000 per ton EBITDA that we are talking about, will it be on 36,000 ton capacity, or will it be on 36,000 ton of cathode plus 12,000 of recycling, adding up to 48,000 tons? It will be on 48,000 tons or it will be on 36,000 tons?

I think some time back, very precisely the same thing I explained, but nevertheless, I'll explain this once more. Basically, as I explained earlier to another gentleman who asked a similar question, was that the blended margin guidance on the cathode will be approximately 60 to 65,000, but definitely that should go up once the efficiencies come in.

Whatever we sell the recycled product directly without processing into the cathode plant will be above 40,000 per ton. And 80% of our recycled material, which is approximately somewhere around 8- or 9,000 tons, we will be utilizing into our cathode plant, and the balance about 25,000 or 22 whatever we consume will be from other scrap that we will be importing.

When we take a blended of these two, it'll be in the range of 60 to 65,000, and what is sold outside, that'll be an addition of [40,000-plus?] .

Okay.

Am I audible right now?

If you could speak a little louder would be better. It's not too audible.

Okay. Sir,

I just wanted to ask a couple of questions. Firstly, our EBITDA per ton for the lead business has been the highest that's been reported, and 45% of our lead business is the domestic market.

Sir, has the implementation of EPR credits and Battery Waste Management Rules contributed in any way to improving realizations, margins, or customer preference, or has there been a negligible impact in it?

No, but in the investor presentation they mentioned this quarter majority is imports. Question of EPR credit on domestic purchases is very minimal for this quarter.

Probably in the second quarter, we're looking to see if the domestic procurement improves, then we can have the benefit of EPR in the second quarter. Sir,

if that happens, what kind of an impact would have on the margins?

Margin that will be compensated through the prices. Mr.

Ashish will explain.

Basically, when you buy a domestic raw material, people start factoring in the EPR pricing and all of that, and the raw material prices automatically get somewhere readjusted a little bit based on those factors. Basic idea of EPR, it just makes it more viable for you to procure domestically and process.

That's how it helps. Maybe there could be a few basis points here and there better margins, but it all depends on demand-supply in terms of availability of material, the pricing, and all of those.

Currently, the domestic market pricing is higher, even after looking into all the EPR benefits and everything, and hence, we did not really push for domestic procurement. This quarter seems like little bit the prices are better, we have already started looking into the domestic procurement.

Secondly, we had some EPR credits available for us which we did not monetize. Have we monetized them or are we looking for...

We have not yet monetized that as well. Still have it in our credit.

Lastly, the copper cathode plant will be on the same unit where the current copper production is happening, or it's a different site?

This will be a different site. It's a new site where the copper cathode plant is being installed.

This is in Tamil Nadu. The current copper recycling plant is in Andhra Pradesh.

That's it from me. Thank you for answering my questions.

Thank you.

Hi, am I audible?

Yes, please.

Hello, yeah. My question was for the current copper products, I wanted to know our end-user industry, and post the copper cathode coming on stream, will the end-user industry be the same or will it differ?

Like currently for lead, it is predominantly autos, I just wanted to understand for the copper product.

Currently, we supply to a lot of wire rod makers basically, the secondary wire rod makers and a few other household wire manufacturers, and the higher grade of copper scrap, we supply to a few of the busbar and other product manufacturers. Once we have our cathode, the cathode can be supplied to the industries which require the highest purity and highest form, could be your industrial cables to your high-end electrical applications to foils to your requirements for your PCB boards and all of those kind of uses where purity is extremely critical.

Yeah. Sorry for repeating the question if it looks like, but I have a doubt for the 36,000 tons, our 12,000 tons of scrap recycling will also be used.

The volume in FY28 will be 36 plus 12 or 36 is inclusive of the 12,000 tons?

Ashish already explained, and again I repeating you, for this 36,000 ton out of 12,000 tons, they are planning to use 8,000 tons for the captive consumption. Balance 4,000 tons is the added to the 36,000 tons.

Notionally, sales realization for 40,000 tons per annum, not 48,000 metric ton.

Basically, that blend could change a little bit plus or minus depending on how much of internal recycled material is going to be used for the cathode, as if extreme high-purity scrap might not be required to repurify and manufacture the cathode. Those could be sold off at a good value and price.

The lower grades will be utilized internally; the higher grades could be sold off externally.

Okay. Thank you.

Thank you.

Hello. Good evening, everyone.

I have basically major question, what is the production output for the months of May to July? If you can quantify for each particular month, it will be great.

May to July, or April to June?

April to June, or April to July if you want to give July numbers also.

We have given the quarterly numbers. I don't think it'll be possible right away.

Maybe we can get back to you with each monthly exact numbers.

Actually, I want to get a point if whether there is an upward trend of production, or it is just stable around? The numbers are stable as if they are in the April month.

Can you just help me out with this, the numbers are up in upward trend or not?

As the shipping issues have increased a little bit towards the month of May and for initial part of June, the production numbers were a little lower in May and June. April month, the numbers were good and consistent on the higher side.

On a average, blended side, overall quarter, the number in terms of lead was a little lower.

Okay. Another question I want to ask is one of your competitors, market leader, has a bit of 10% de-growth in lead volume.

When we see our, ours is about 25%. What is the rationale that why we have de-grown at a much faster pace as compared to the competitor?

I won't be able to specifically comment on the competitor, but regarding our reasons, we have already given the reasons in terms of why the volumes were lower.

Sir. Sir.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

Thank you everyone for joining us today and for your continued interest in POCL. I would like to thank our Board of Directors for the guidance, our employees for our dedication, our customers for the continued trust, and our investors for the unwavering confidence in the company.

If you have any further questions, please feel free to reach out to our Investor Relations team at Go India Advisors, and we appreciate your participation and continued support. Thank you, and have a great day.

Thank you.