poLight ASA

poLight ASA

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Q4 FY2025 · Earnings Call TranscriptFebruary 24, 2026

Øyvind Isaksen

Good morning, everybody, and welcome to poLight's fourth quarter presentation. My name is Øyvind Isaksen, I'm the CEO.

Together with me today is the CFO, Joakim Bredahl, and the board chair, Grete Viksås. It's the normal drill, the normal agenda: key events, which is quite a few this quarter, quite a few; introduction to poLight, quickly; market review; financial review by the CFO; outlook and Q&A.

Since this presentation is webcasted, if there's any question from the audience, please wait for the microphone so that everybody can hear your question. Yeah.

Okay. If I'm starting coughing, apologize for that.

I came back from Las Vegas with a lot of bugs, I'm still kind of struggling to get over that, but hopefully I will manage this presentation without too much noise. Key events in the quarter, as I said, quite a few.

Those related to AR/MR, which is, as we said many times, a key focus area for poLight. The TLens-related cases is mentioned first there.

This is, I would say, extremely encouraging to see how the consumer TLens cases is maturing. In the quarter, we announced a quite big and extremely strategic important contract of 5 million supporting a top-tier tier-1 US consumer electronic OEM in designing TLens-based cameras for AR/MR application.

This is a quite unique case. It's it's basically us taking a a a role of coordinating all aspect of a camera, which is which is, as I said, unique.

Normally we are kind of a a player, sub-supplier to a camera module player. Here, we are actually kind of on on the top, advising and managing all the suppliers, lens maker or camera module guy, how to integrate TLens in the optimal way.

This is, I would say, a little bit like a, yeah, what should I say, a platform-type development, we have high hopes that this will over time mean that this can be deployed in many different customers. We also had a follow-on purchase orders, summing up to slightly less than 1 million, from another AR/MR big guy.

This is this is related to also consumer product, and we're now into, I would say, a very mature POC, very mature POC. Of course, everything can go can go wrong still.

It's it's not done before the the product is in the in the shop, but everything is moving in the direction of of positive, I would say. There are still technical challenges, both on our side and, generally speaking, for this product, but, yeah, super important progress during the quarter.

Then also, we got a a follow order on the AR/MR enterprise customer. Then post-quarter, we got another PO for TLenses to an for a consumer product related to qualification program, which we have talked about before, like 11th February 2026, we announced this.

This is this is basically also a proof that this, when we announced this first time, it it proves that it's kind of moving in the direction of reality. Very good, I would say, progress on the TLens AR/MR side.

On the TWedge side, we have, what should I say, an impressive interaction with many of the same guys as we do with TLens, but related to TWedge. We actually had a a very sizeable order intake in in the quarter.

It's the same, there's no new players in in this, it's basically the same who do repeat orders, which kind of is is very good, means that it's progressing. Without going into details of each of these events, I would say that when it come to TWedge, we are in the process of starting to converge to a design.

There may be several designs for different players. I will come back to it, but we can see now that that we are starting to get ready to kind of freeze some some designs and and potentially start a real product development.

Design wins: we have one design win on repeat design win on the high-end MR headset, which is announced October 9th, and also a design win for TLens for this Snake AR medical headset. On the industrial/healthcare side, we have during the quarter also good progress.

We we have three companies who's commercially offering this mini2P system. One of them placed an order of 2.6 million, which shows that there is a market of this advanced scientific instruments.

We also have a PO from the company who is planning to use TLens in iris scanner system. That's not still not shipping, as far as we know, it's only classified as a design-in, not a win.

Then we we have a lot of, what should I say, active and increasing number of design wins in China when it comes to barcode, machine vision. This quarter, we also got a sorry, post-quarter, we got a No, this quarter, we got a 1.9 million PO from from a leading machine vision player in China.

Then post-quarter, we got another China PO for barcode, machine vision, slightly less than 1 million. Also, we launched MLens during the quarter, post-quarter, and it's interesting to see the the momentum that creates, actually.

It's going to be interesting to see how that develops over time. From a design win perspective, we have our first endoscope industrial endoscope design win happening.

That's with Delon, you saw the press release there. Kind of a little bit came a little bit out of the blue, interesting.

Let's see. I think it's it's going to be small volume, it's but it's a good showcase.

Then we had a repeat design win from an existing barcode scanner engine customer. This was very interesting.

You can see from the design win slide that many of these existing customer just continue to release new product for using TLens in in in various type of products and and and barcode scan engine. I guess repeat orders is like is like the the best proof that we are able to supply quality products to to customers and support them.

A lot of a lot of nice newsflow in in Q4, very strategic dimension to many of them. We're happy for that.

Quickly on on poLight, so, as many of we are focusing consumer and enterprise, industrial. The main focus, I would say, the majority of the effort in the organization and activity is related to AR/MR, but there are also important activities in the more the industrial side.

Our technology is unique. We have a technology platform.

First product is TLens, which is a tunable lens, which is an autofocus actuator, but we also have started, as a wobulator program called TWedge, which is used for display enhancement. Very high very good speed is our technology.

We can do very compact solution, constant field of view, meaning no pumping, very, very low power consumption. This is actually critical for AR/MR devices where the the budget for for power is very constrained.

Also, we have a kind of a built-in a-thermalization, which actually brought us into the first AR/MR case, Magic Leap. We've been listed since 2018.

We were celebrating 20 years in in last year. Very distributed organization: Norway, Finland, France, Belgium actually also, UK, US, China, Taiwan, Japan, and the Philippines.

We are basically That Why are we so many places? Because we are there where the customer are, needed to support them on daily basis.

We also are where the customer or manufacturing partners are based. Of course, we also need to be where there are talented to be recruited.

It's not so easy to find in many of these kind of technical fields we are operating. There There is limited resources in in Norway, we need to be we need to think globally and act locally.

This, but for those who are new, the first product is TLens: smallest, lowest power consumption, and fastest actuator in the market, for sure, getting a lot of traction, specific now on the AR/MR side due to its compactness and speed and low power consumption. We're basically putting voltage on a MEMS piezo die, which is underneath that die there is a polymer, which is the gel, which is still mimicking the lens material in in your eye.

By putting voltage, this membrane bends, shaping the polymer, changing the focus from close to infinity. That is in essence, and then we have a driver, ASIC driver, who is kind of making that voltage onto the membrane.

We are fabless as a company. We though produce though the the polymer ourselves in in Tønsberg.

This is very scalable and and easy for us to do, and also we don't need a lot of resources to do it, we don't need a lot of space. Like 1 liter of polymer is is kind of million lenses, it takes very little effort in a way.

The uniqueness of the polymer is obviously in the mixing and what it contains, and doing it ourselves doesn't imply that we don't need to share recipe with anybody. Having said that, one of the more complex things we do is the MEMS wafer, which we had to be thousands of people if you're going to do that ourselves, we are partnering with STMicro, and they do the MEMS wafer.

That MEMS wafer is 8-inch and comprises of that membrane you see on top, which we have voltage from 0 to 50, is more than 2,000 of these dies in one 8-inch wafer. We ship that to our assembly partner in Philippines and now also China, and they do the the dicing, dispensing of the polymer, pick-and-place, and, yeah, curing, and then have a TLens, either with or without package.

That's happening at the Philippines and and China. China is the QTech line.

Then we are spending a lot of time in the market on the right side of this value chain. The OEMs, the product owners, is basically the guys we are convincing, as the decision what to use of actuators is very often happening in on the OEM side.

We we spend a lot of time there. Successfully, we have done that, I would say.

Then, of course, we need to support the camera module guys so that they're able to integrate our TLens into the camera module. Here, we work with all the camera module guys, which the OEMs want us to support.

Even though QTech is, of course, a very strategic important partner, we work with all camera module guys which OEMs want us to support. That's a clear strategy.

Different ways of of integrating TLens. The simplest is to use an so-called add-on, where the TLens is on top of the camera module.

More complex and also can facilitate bigger image sensor, and also can be more compact, is the add-in, where the TLens is kind of buried buried kind of inside the lens stack as an element there. That's a quick of poLight.

As I mentioned in the beginning, we are targeting growth markets. I think, as I said, majority of the effort we do is AR/MR driven, and we do see that that market is really starting now to be more and more mature.

Of course, there is still a way to go to see very advanced AR glasses kind of shipping. That's still a few years ahead, I believe.

There are so many now who is positioning themselves for these kind of devices, and we are working with many of them. What you can see already is that those more like AI glasses, which is more the smart glasses, you have as an example there are many out there now coming, one of these well, more known is the is the is the Meta, the Ray-Bans, Oakleys.

Those are actually shipping in in very big volumes already. A big growth was happening last year.

This is this is kind of, in a way, the first market in this space. MR devices also there.

Not many players in that market, more players positioning themselves for the AI and AR, but MR will still be an important element if of this market. We have decided that that we need to use our limited resources to to get a very strong position in this market.

Of course, we don't overlook other important consumer markets, definitely. Smartphone has been a big focus for the company over many, many years.

I would say that we use less time on that now because we feel that the AR/MR opportunity is bigger for us, and also that our technology has a strong differentiation in that application. Consumer smartphone is important, and we're not we're not going to say that we do not address it, but it's also an a very, very commoditized market.

Price pressure is extreme, close to zero innovation. All the innovation is happening in the in the AR/MR side, we feel.

Then we we still support the machine vision and industrial. Why do we do that?

Long lifetime. One of the cases which we have is the Honeywell EX30.

We got that design win in 2020, and we're still receiving POs for that product, which is good. Maybe it's five times higher pricing than we do in consumer, it's nice gross margins coming from this market, and we intend to continue push.

We try to move up in the value chain by implementing M12, which is supposed to be much easier way to implement our technology. Hopefully, that will bring new momentum also into this.

Those are the the key markets, and we sometimes when we allow ourselves to dream, we believe that automotive and healthcare can also be important markets, but we don't have resources and partly also not the product to address this market at the moment in a proper way. This slide's starting to be very messy, but it's a it's a good platform.

It's a good platform to to communicate poLight's story to customers. I remember when we did IPO in 2018, October, I was talking to the financial market, and this slide was blank.

That was quite an a challenge to to do. Since then, we have populated this slide, and the icons starting to get smaller and smaller.

I think I need to split this into two, three slides in the in the future. You can see very strong platform already built in the AR/MR.

Those consumer cases which is now maturing is actually looking at those references, and they are buying those kind of products, test it, it's a good good showcase for us. On on the right side, you see you see the the industrial market segment, which has started to be quite significant when it comes to design wins.

I will not go into the the details on the newsflow in the quarter because that's already kind of been presented in the key events. Focus, as I said, has been AR/MR, but there is also some preparation work related to laptops and and various accessories, which which we see some promising moves.

There is a there is a couple of proofs of concepts related to laptop, which is promising. Of course, it's also challenging challenging application because of, the screen, it's very thin, the TTL, the the height of the camera module, is critical.

It's interesting to see that we have proposed some designs which seems to be not far away from what can be acceptable. One of the reasons why, they want to kind of maybe show something in front of the camera, and they're going to move from yourself to something like there to show something, and that that needs AF.

That's one kind of obvious application. Another way of say why we have a potential position is that, of course, we are we are compact when it comes to XY.

We add a little bit thickness, so that's not good. Another thing is that mechanical devices, we are not always very nice to the laptop.

We take the laptop screen and slam it down. If you're going to have some rattling inside there every time you shut down and you your lens stack and your VCM will start to to cry, we have some advantages when it comes to mechanical robustness.

We are very positive to our position with TLens in the AR/MR. This is TLens-related slide.

I think it's it's also fair to say that there will be a a a battle of also in that area, for sure. We know all the VCM, and we also have other tunable lenses, and even fighting against no autofocus.

I think we need to say that it's also something It's not given that this is going to fly big time due to a fixed focus and due to other technologies. I think it unlikely to be that we anybody will be alone.

There will always be competition. They like Customer likes to see competition, of course.

They they they explore many different technologies. Having said that, the feedback we get from the guys we work with, which which is quite a few and quite big names, is encouraging.

It is definitely encouraging. One of our supplier is a big one is talking to the same customer we are talking to, and they came back to me the other day and said, "You know, we talked to this and this, and they were so positive about TLens for their future products."

That's it's it's very good progress. It's very good signs, but we're not going to be there alone, we need to be very competitive.

On the TWedge side, also consumer-related. TWedge, you see this animation on the on the bottom right side, where the the piezo arms are bending and tilting that glass membrane, meaning that a beam going through that device will be tilted.

There will be a wedge, and this we use for for beam steering, basically wobulation in our case. How can I say it?

I When I did this slide, I said "Very high interest," but then I'm a modest guy, I reduced it to "High interest," but it is really high interest, really high interest, very high interest. Like in the quarter, we had 3.5 million in in in POs from from from this this market between, say, a few a small handful of players, which is we're selling very expensively, and we in a way we're using the price also to to limit a little bit the engagement we have because there's a limit what we can support.

That was up from 1.2 million for the last previous two quarters. I think we have more than 7 millions for the year in POs for for TWedge.

These guys, they don't spend that kind of money for fun, you know? It's it's very serious, and we had an extensive roadshow, myself and some of my team members, in in the market, and they are they are giving us a feedback.

I ask, "Okay, will TWedge be an important product for you, and for how long?" The feedback we get, "It definitely is a key component for our product, for our design," they're saying.

They also saying that, "We don't see really anything which can do do it better. As long as you can have that compactness and the low power consumption, this is probably our cheapest way to get a better display."

They They compare it to other ways of doing it, but they're more more expensive. Then I'm asking, "Yeah, guys, when do you need me to ship volumes?"

Then they say, "You know, we think we need it" This was Q4 last year, "then we need it in a" we feel a couple of years. Then I had a call last week with one of the big guys saying, "You know, if you want us to be ready in 2 years or not, you better start a program with us."

That's what we do now. We try to kind of motivate them to kick off a program to be mass-production ready in, say, 1.5 to 2 years.

As I said before, it's amazing to see how many use cases they see. Of course, resolution enhancement, that's what it everything started with that, but after that, many many different applications has has developed.

This is the picture of the latest TS5, and there's a big flex connector, and then you see this is a small the small aperture size, and the two piezo rods, which you see as animated below. Interesting product.

Yeah. Here you can see we are, for design wins, same as last quarter, the the bracket is the last quarter.

We have 23 ongoing POCs, up from 22, and 24 planning POCs, up from 19. As you can see, that 19 of these 23 is related to a consumer AR/MR.

20 of the pending POC is related to AR/MR consumer, which is good for the future. Enterprise AR/MR is is low.

Only only the Snake and and the high-end head-mounted display MR is shipping. The other ways is end of life.

I think you still can maybe get Magic Leap because they probably had some some inventory. They represent a low low volume, but they represent a fantastic showcase.

I think this market will also grow as technology mature. We likely will see more enterprise cases.

If you look The latest one, the Snake, is a good example of that this kind of devices is coming into important market segment like healthcare. Again, this is all AR/MR, not only consumer, but you can see it's really dominated by the POC.

The future is dominated by consumer, whereas the existing design wins, which is up by two, is dominated by enterprise. On the barcode/industrial side, we did actually have 2 million order intake in this market, barcode, specifically barcode, which is similar to the previous quarter, majority from existing customer.

We have one new design win in a new market segment, which is the endoscope, which I don't know, to be honest, how big can be, but it's interesting to have a reference in in, yeah, different industrial application. Maybe the maybe the the more exciting thing now is the M12.

We already got the first PO on that, and are lining up quite quite a number of advanced players wanted to use M12. Again, M12, what is it?

It's TLens inside, actually two, and they can easily integrate it by just screwing it into an M12 system and reduce a lot the NRE, the effort they need to design us into the the solutions. That's it.

Here you can see the overview: 28 design win, up by two; three design-in, down from four; 11 POCs, down from 15; and 22 planning POC. Quite an extensive activity also in this area, but I would say it take us less effort than the AR/MR, for sure, and that we need to continue.

Nothing very new to say about the healthcare. It's still the case that we are not able to see big volumes in healthcare, in consumer, in endoscopes.

On the other side, there are a few cases where we are involved in in endoscope sorry, endoscope application. As I've said many times, the image sensor is still relatively low resolution, meaning that they don't cry for AF, but there is a trend that it going up, and 5 mega will quickly means that they need some AF solution, likely.

Maybe. At the meantime, we are supporting some POCs on the endoscope from China mainly, and we are supporting this mini2P players, and which was the kind of the biggest PO for this quarter.

Automotive: basically, nothing happening. No, I'm lying.

There is a little bit happening there with with quite quite a big big guy who's wanting to look into our technology. We just signed an NDA, we are too early to say what it will what it will mean.

What we have seen in all the other activities we had with this market is that we are too small. We have a solution for bigger, but quite expensive, let's see what happens.

Yeah. That's to sum up.

I don't need to read that in detail. Super good activity, a lot of cases maturing, and we are extremely, I would say, optimistic about the future with this pipeline.

This is even busier slide. Flattening out, you can see on in this quarter, and and this is related to that we have removed all the POCs in healthcare related to the universities, which have not the focus to develop a commercial instrument.

We've removed kind of the the research of buying lenses here and there at university because we don't understand what they do, and we have no visibility, we removed that. That's why it's kind of flattening out, you can't compare.

It's not apple to apple. I think we removed nine cases from ongoing POC on healthcare.

Joakim, you're up. Yes.

Joakim Bredahl

Thank you. We turn our eyes to the revenue first.

I think I've stood here a couple of quarters now saying that we're almost at record-high revenues, and then in Q4 '25, we finally made it. It's the all-time highest revenue for poLight ever, but still at a level where we are quite far from profitability in the quarter.

Still, that revenue is driven by great effort from the sales team getting POs, it's driven by the operations delivering on the POs, it's driven by R&D helping the OEMs understand, it's a massive team effort to deliver that top line. As we further develop, that team work is we're going to capitalize on those interactions and grow from that.

You can say the margin is 60%, so that's also quite good in the quarter. I'll get back to one factor influencing that.

Around 70% of the revenue is in AR/MR. The costs, we can see that the R&D expenses are quite a lot higher than they were in the same quarter last year.

That's driven by several factors. One is external development costs, particularly related to the lead-free program and development of the MLens.

There's quite a significant share option reserve, cost reserve, and also we had higher soft funding in 2024, several factors counting into that, but we had higher soft funding, which reduced the cost in Q4 '24. That didn't help us on the cost side as much as it did then.

On operations, there's also definitely higher costs, and much of that is related to the effort and time spent and also the travel costs related to helping and supporting QTech setting up the production line. Quite a lot of effort from both our local teams, but also our team in Norway and France.

All in all, this leads to an EBITDA that is not that far away from the corresponding quarter last year, just half a million higher and more loss. If we then turn our eyes to the balance sheet, the most significant number is definitely our cash balance, which stands at a healthy 284 million, which is helped considerably, of course, by the two capital infusions that came in in June and July of 210 million.

That was massively important for us. Also, our inventory is quite high still, 53.5 million, most of that is wafers.

We have a rule where we, for the sake of prudence, we write down the value of the inventory by 10% every year that it's in the inventory, and we call that the obsolescence provision. That's a recurring theme every quarter, given the high inventory and still waiting to ramp and really spend that inventory.

That has a positive gross margin effect when and if those wafers are assembled into TLens and sold. That's a positive effect on that later on.

In addition, we do a calculatory cost of goods sold during the year, and then at the end of the year, we do a stocktaking and we figure out was our COGS correct? This year, we had a positive adjustment to the inventory of half a million, so that also reduced our COGS in the quarter by half a million, which, again, contributed to the positive gross margin.

On the cash flow side, there's a net decrease in cash in Q4 of '25, also in Q4 of '24. It was slightly higher, 0.8 million higher, in this year or Q4 '25.

It was driven by the change in OpEx, which is a bit of a plus and minus: it's higher gross margin, but also higher operational costs. That's one factor driving it.

The other is the change in working capital, which saw an improvement in both Q4 '24, but also Q4 '25, but it was even higher in Q4 '24. That's a difference.

Then again, we also saw a higher interest on deposits in Q4 '25. That's driven by two things in particular: of course, the main thing is higher deposits, with a cash balance of 284; and the capital infusions of 210 million, that has really contributed.

Also, let me brag a bit about my own people, too, the finance department, our VP finance works diligently to get the best interest we can on those deposits. That's also a negotiation that's going on on a running basis to make sure that we have that.

All in all, it's been a good quarter for poLight financially in terms of the historical performance, and it's been a full team effort. It's going to be a full team effort in the future, too, and that's why I'll leave you to Øyvind for an outlook and a glimpse into the future.

Øyvind Isaksen

Okay. Then let's move to the outlook.

One slide to go, then we are done, and then maybe there are a few questions after that. We we close the year with a very strong momentum.

Can you see that we are happy? We are super happy.

This has, even though some of you have given us a little bit like a saying that they see us seem to be slow, we we don't feel that at all. It's a really high activity, it's unhealthy high activity.

Grete is telling me, "Don't kill the organization." The long-term outlook is really remains positive, particular again back to the AR/MR, but also also other.

There are some, I would say, very important consumer AR/MR cases which are maturing and may approach important, meaningful milestones during the year. That's very motivating.

I I I like to be balanced, and we should also say that it's not a walk in a park. There are many challenges ahead of us.

It's we're not going to be alone. Whether they use TLens as a technology in this market, AR/MR market, is is, of course, what we plan for, and many many plan for that.

There will be multiple approaches used. There will We will coexist with others.

There will be many coming out with fixed-focus solutions. Bear with us, AF will be needed.

The big The big guys will move there first. We are one of the, I would say, best candidates, as we see it, being very objective.

As I said, TWedge remains very strong. We are now, as I said during my TWedge presentation, is that we are now actually going into a new phase: sitting down with the customer and discussing, "Guys, if you want us to ship volumes, we need to start something, and we would like to ask you for money," because this is such a specialized market.

It's like TLens can have quite big market, quite diversified market; the TWedge is a very specific market where the system complexity is extremely high, and and there will be purpose-made devices for for for some of the big guys. That's why we I'm telling you we cannot do move alone, we need your commitment and we need your financial support.

That's what we are aiming for. Hopefully, in mid this year, we are able to kind of lock some customers and to start that program.

As I said, many ways, it's we have an unhealthy high activity. Some of the resources, key resources we have is is is really, really overloaded, has been for some time, we are in the process now of hiring a lot of people.

We need to build for future. This This going to cost, of course, but it's the only way to get the customer we want, which is very demanding, it's Premier League-type customers, and we need to have an organization which is capable of of supporting these guys.

We will need to take an increased cost, but it is for for benefit for the future and for shareholder value. That's the outlook statement, which is we feel a very promising outlook.

As I said, quarter by quarter, we we feel that we see progress. Q4 had a very, very encouraging progress.

My dear CFO, you want to join us for the Q&A? Maybe there are a couple of questions.

Joakim Bredahl

There are some.

Øyvind Isaksen

There are some, okay.

Joakim Bredahl

Should we start with the ones that we got beforehand?

Øyvind Isaksen

Okay.

Joakim Bredahl

We've also managed to categorize them so we can do this category by category.

Øyvind Isaksen

We didn't manage, Rikard managed.

Joakim Bredahl

Oh, yeah.

Øyvind Isaksen

Then we helped. That we did,

Joakim Bredahl

with the additional questions.

Øyvind Isaksen

Yes.

Joakim Bredahl

First category: QTech. "Could you explain some about how the work on the assembly line for QTech is going?

Is the OEM satisfied with the progress and how you are doing?"

Øyvind Isaksen

The work at QTech is progressing as we speak. We are running a qualification of units being produced at QTech.

This qualification is kind of to qualify that what came out of that line is good quality. This is kind of we are in the middle of that process.

Far, it looks good, but it's not completed. It is not an easy thing to set up this assembly line with TLenses, it has taken time and we're still not finished, but we're progressing quite well.

We, as poLight, spend a lot of time, of course, supporting QTech in getting this up and running. As I said, the first units has been produced and is going through a qualification.

Qualification means that we take the produced lenses which were produced at QTech, compare them to what's produced in the Philippines, get them through qualification: temperature, humidity, drop test, all this kind of, yeah, qualification programs we need to do, which is approved by OEMs, and to see how they perform in that process. That's ongoing at the moment.

These OEMs are never fully satisfied. They want quicker, faster, more data, more visibility, but we are running like crazy to try to support them and make them happy.

Joakim Bredahl

A follow-on question to that: "Is the latest PO for the backing OEM" so this is the one that we had now this quarter with a final call-off of the last 50% "is that produced at QTech?" I think you've answered that.

Øyvind Isaksen

It's some of them are there, but only the qualification units. Those units which is going into the program is likely coming from the Philippines, but part of them will go to a qualification program, and after they qualify, they will go into camera modules.

Joakim Bredahl

"How do you perceive the interest in TLens from OEMs now after having input from decision-makers in meetings with QTech?" Now,

Øyvind Isaksen

as I said many times, QTech's investment and, of course, we all know the background for that investment, is super critical and super positive. Also, I think it's also fair to say in respect to our own organization that these cases we have worked on for many years.

Then QTech brings us into some new cases, but those are less mature. Now

Joakim Bredahl

moving on to the next category, which is quite a large category: AR. "How would you characterize the maturity and concentration of your consumer AR/MR pipeline today?"

Øyvind Isaksen

I feel we have said enough about that.

Joakim Bredahl

I agree. "You announced a leading OEM with a PO in Q4" that was in 24th of November press release

Øyvind Isaksen

"and

Joakim Bredahl

that lenses were to be delivered in Q4 '25. How do you see the progress of this customer, and can you say something about the geographical area this customer comes from?"

Øyvind Isaksen

Yeah. This is one of them when I say that there are some of the cases which is listed as POC which is maturing significantly.

This is one of this case, which is maturing significantly. I would try to avoid commenting on where it is, because then you start to add one and one and you get five.

When it comes to AR/MR, we are mainly focusing on US and China. You pick.

Joakim Bredahl

"You have announced three POs on projects with top-tier/leading OEMs in the last 6 months" that's also dated in August, in October, and in November. "Can you say something about whether all of these use QTech as a potential camera module maker, or are there some of them that primarily use other camera module makers?"

Øyvind Isaksen

QTech is actually involved in all these cases, but not alone.

Joakim Bredahl

"Following the February call-off related to the top-tier US consumer OEM qualification program, how would you describe the remaining validation and industrial readiness steps before the program could transition into a formal design-in or design win?"

Øyvind Isaksen

Yeah. These guys are extremely thorough, and we don't have the full visibility, but I think that you can say we are now in POC stage, some of them mature POC stage, and then when they kind of lock the design, have component qualification ready, then we can kind of potentially call it a design-in.

For some of these cases, which is today listed as POC, you can say if I were more bullish, I could say that some of them could maybe be qualified as design-in, but I feel still that there are some risk, which lead us to still qualify them as POC, but adding a comment that they are starting to be very mature POCs. It's very difficult to say when, but more like a generic comment: I believe that this year there may be meaningful milestones achieved in the consumer AR/MR space for poLight.

What does that mean? I'm not sure myself, but I feel it's something good will happen this year.

Joakim Bredahl

Next question, can be a bit complex: "There are probably around 8 to 10 top players as OEMs. Have any of those who have not announced a PO with poLight in the last 6 months had any progress within TLens-related development?"

Øyvind Isaksen

We have activity with other OEMs, which is not kind of in the list of these kind of events, key events. Yes, we do have other customers, but they are much less mature.

Joakim Bredahl

"Can you say something about how you experience the TWedge feedback from the last technical sample? Does it seem to be that TWedge is close to an approved form factor, and if so, when will you decide whether the interest is great enough for a decision to be made about building up production capacity?"

Øyvind Isaksen

I think we have answered that.

Joakim Bredahl

You referenced that at the end. General questions about camera module manufacturers: "How is the relationship with the other camera module manufacturers now that the work with QTech has come this far?"

Øyvind Isaksen

You've

Joakim Bredahl

touched on it.

Øyvind Isaksen

I think it's important for us to say, as poLight, is that we support all camera module guys being asked by the OEMs. Of course, we do a lot of things with QTech, as but we also have other engagements which we need to take care of, and we do.

Joakim Bredahl

"Are there more companies considering working even harder to front that they have TLens in their range of tech and wanted to promote this to their customers?"

Øyvind Isaksen

It's very much driven from the OEM, to be honest. The camera module guys, I wouldn't say they are slow because that's the wrong word, but they are moving in the direction the OEMs ask them to move.

You don't see a lot of proactiveness on the technology front from the camera module guy. They are moving in the direction the OEM is directing them.

Okay. Then

Joakim Bredahl

we move on to the category barcode. "Very exciting to see that MLens was launched in the new year.

How does interest look for this now, and can you say something about feedback among those who have tested it out?"

Øyvind Isaksen

Positive feedback, I would say, and also pipeline, positive pipeline being built up in the machine vision side. It looks good.

I think hopefully this year we will see the start of picking up, not in full pace, that will be 2027 plus, but it will be hopefully a good start this year.

Joakim Bredahl

"It was mentioned that you are releasing the first two MLenses now. When do you think the last two versions of MLens will be ready for the market?"

Øyvind Isaksen

A little bit depend on the feedback, but I guess it will be within the next 12 months.

Joakim Bredahl

"Following the MLens launch in January for industrial machine vision, how would you describe early market traction and the expected revenue contribution over the next 12 to 24 months?"

Øyvind Isaksen

Of course, we have an outline of revenue contribution, which I don't like to share with you, but we think that this product can have a significant contribution to top line in the machine vision side.

Joakim Bredahl

Part of moving up in the value chain also means higher price point, right? Yes.

Øyvind Isaksen

Exactly, good point. We are not only selling the TLenses there, we are selling a product having a value of, say, €100 instead of €10.

Joakim Bredahl

Moving on to a general tech category: "Can you say something about lead-free TLens? What positive side effects can a lead-free TLens have compared to a standard TLens?"

I think this alludes to

Øyvind Isaksen

Yeah. Yeah.

Joakim Bredahl

something you said last quarter, too.

Øyvind Isaksen

Yes. I think that the lead-free TLens program is progressing quite well.

We have assembled the first lenses based on the new wafer, lead-free. Promising results.

Of course, there are questions which we need to answer and find solution to. We have a partner meeting in Singapore in a couple of days.

That looks promising. We are already discussing with our partner when and how to take it into mass production.

That looks good. Of course, there are challenges, we don't have all solution and answers, but so far so good, I would say.

What was the positive side effects? Yeah.

This is a different material than PZT, which means that have new and different characteristics. Maybe linearity, hysteresis, drift issues are better, actually, with this new material, It could be potentially easier for customer to integrate this technology compared to PZT.

Joakim Bredahl

"How many OEMs and camera module manufacturers are pushing for a lead-free version to be developed?"

Øyvind Isaksen

We believe that there are some of the very biggest guys, they are very kind of, what should I say, environmental profile, want to get rid of all, in this example, lead in the components. I would say today it's very few, but they are the big ones, and we expect other will follow this trend.

As I said in the last question is that one thing is that lead-free from a green, environmental perspective. The level of lead is so low that you can argue whether it doesn't really have an impact, but anyway, rules are rules and regulation are regulation.

That's one reason why we are moving in that direction. The other reason is also for technical reasons, which can be quite beneficial for us, actually, to go in that direction.

Joakim Bredahl

"Semantic autofocus is something that has come up along with the new AI trend. As I see it, there might be some positives around this and a fast autofocus actuator.

Can you share your thoughts on this?"

Øyvind Isaksen

To be honest, we have discussed it briefly internally, and I'm not sure what this can mean, but it is a technology where they use AI to decide where to detect object and where to focus, and maybe then combining that with a very fast actuator could be beneficial. We don't know, but potentially could have an impact, but too early to say.

If they need an actuator to follow that, then, of course, we have an advantage.

Joakim Bredahl

The final questions that were sent in before the presentation: "Laptop was mentioned last quarter. Can you say more about how the work with the laptop customers is going and whether the camera is aimed at the user of the laptop or at the surroundings?"

Øyvind Isaksen

I think I, generally speaking, answered that already, but I can say that the cases we are involved in is basically in the screen, in the laptop.

Joakim Bredahl

"Can you say something about the enterprise endoscope that was launched? Is this a customer you have worked with for a long time, and how did they go for TLens in such an endoscope?"

Øyvind Isaksen

It came a little bit out of the blue, at least for me, and that's good, of course, that we get things out of the blue. I think the best thing we can refer to here is actually the press release, where there was a statement from Delon why they selected TLens.

Remember? If you go back to that press release, I can't remember exact wording, but, of course, it is all the characteristic attributes with our technology: speed, robustness, constant field of view, it's the same kind of, yeah, reliability, not at least.

It's those kind of elements and, yeah. They are quite happy, and let's see.

They're just releasing.

Joakim Bredahl

A follow-on to that: "Do you have any signals that they are considering TLens in other applications as well?"

Øyvind Isaksen

For that particular customer, I think there is potential, but we don't know for sure.

Joakim Bredahl

Final of the pre-sent questions: "You have previously highlighted high organizational workload due to concurrent qualification programs. How do you assess current capacity, and are there areas where incremental investments are required ahead of commercialization?"

Øyvind Isaksen

I think I answered to that. Yeah.

Joakim Bredahl

It's also a big question.

Øyvind Isaksen

Yeah.

Joakim Bredahl

Let me see. We are on to the questions that have been sent in live.

This first one we have answered. It was mentioned an iris scanner product should have been announced around Christmas.

Øyvind Isaksen

That's what they said, but they have not launched yet, let's see what happens.

Joakim Bredahl

Lead-free TLens, yes, this has been addressed. There's several questions in one.

"A few questions pop up from time to time on investor forums. Can you answer them once and for all?"

Øyvind Isaksen

Once and for all, let's try.

Joakim Bredahl

These are discussions

Øyvind Isaksen

I would say there's only once. I would say this only once.

Joakim Bredahl

"Can you confirm that TWedge production will require new production lines as the existing two lines cannot be used for TWedge?"

Øyvind Isaksen

Correct.

Joakim Bredahl

Correct. "Can you elaborate on your use of top-tier consumer OEM and leading consumer OEMs?

Are the terms used consistently for the same customer, is this customer A always called top-tier and not leading sometimes, and is top-tier to be considered the level above leading?"

Øyvind Isaksen

We could potentially be more accurate in our kind of classification. When we say top-tier, we mean top-tier.

There not many of those. Sometimes when we use leading, it could be top-tier, but it could also be just below in a way.

Are you taking the role of the title of the press releases?

Joakim Bredahl

Are you being accused of something here? No, but we do use them consistently.

Øyvind Isaksen

Yeah.

Joakim Bredahl

Towards the same OEMs, it's

Øyvind Isaksen

Top-tier is top-tier. Leading, maybe just a little bit below, but still quite top.

Joakim Bredahl

Yeah.

Øyvind Isaksen

Was that very clear?

Joakim Bredahl

Customer A will not be top-tier once and then leading another time. No, that's right.

Øyvind Isaksen

Yes.

Joakim Bredahl

"Is the QTech production line reserved for the supporting top-tier consumer OEM, or can it equally fulfill orders from other customers?"

Øyvind Isaksen

Technically, it can, of course, but the basis for that line is related to that US top-tier consumer OEM. Then we need to see the loading and the capacity we need, there are all flexibility if the parties agree, we can use it for anybody.

We need also to make sure that we feed the existing line at the Philippines with decent volumes before we start to dilute that into other lines, so that is something we are discussing on a weekly basis. Now, it's

Joakim Bredahl

a bit of an market analysis here: "How many units of AI glasses does poLight see in 2026 and then in 2027 to 2030? Some say 100 million units.

How many are TLens or TWedge?" I guess this is in general.

Øyvind Isaksen

This is in general, but I think we should be very careful in commenting to those numbers. I think the safest thing to say is that nobody knows.

It's really an undefined volume potential. You can go to different reports and you see different numbers, and they may all be right in a way, not at the same time, but if you go to our quarterly report last quarter, we had some slide, generic slide, about the different market segments, and so there are some numbers there and they are referred to some reports, please have a look at that.

What you can say is that what you see now is that from very low volume, say AI glasses, which I think is the most mature market, those volume exploded, I would say, last year and will continue to grow, and we're talking about many millions. It's a clear trend that something is happening in this market.

Joakim Bredahl

"Will TWedge still depend on a major player getting it realized?" So

Øyvind Isaksen

I think we answered that.

Joakim Bredahl

We did. I agree.

"When do you expect the company to become cash positive, and is there any possibility that this could happen unexpectedly within the next 5 months?" I would say no.

Within the next 5 months, that would come as such a surprise to absolutely everyone that I think our internal analysis of cash flows would go crazy if that happened. We have a plan towards cash positive,

Øyvind Isaksen

of course, and

Joakim Bredahl

that's why we're running the company, but we have not communicated anything about when we think that will happen because there are so many factors playing into it. In the report, the outlook does not include the financial outlook, and that's, as I just said, we don't really communicate future numbers.

The uncertainty regarding those numbers is still too high to give any indications. "Do you see any signs of other competitors in the AR market with usable quality, and is it actually a problem?"

Øyvind Isaksen

No, and I think, as I said, I think there will be coexisting different technologies in that market also. Everything from not using AF, meaning fixed focus, you have VCM, you have other tunable optics.

I think our technology is seen as one of the, I would say, very promising technologies, but there will be others also. No, I don't see that as a problem.

It's a huge market. No, it will be a huge market.

Joakim Bredahl

How huge? Time will tell.

Øyvind Isaksen

Yes, time will tell.

Joakim Bredahl

"The market is moving fast towards AI-driven sensors that process data locally on the chip, often going beyond the visible light spectrum. When looking at ongoing projects for optical see-through AR glasses, are these TLens cameras being built primarily for human viewing or also for AI machine vision/AI input?"

Øyvind Isaksen

Good question. This is one thing which is quite frustrating when we talk to customer: they are super careful in telling us anything about their application.

We really need to kind of try to ask questions from many directions to get any good answer here. I think both.

I think both: sensing and visual. I think both.

Joakim Bredahl

"You highlighted the risk of tariffs disrupting OS OEMs' value chains and potentially slowing down the adoption of new technology. This is from a risk chapter.

To what extent is this uncertainty actively impacting your current US pipeline today, and are your partners asking poLight to help qualify new camera module manufacturers outside of China?"

Øyvind Isaksen

Surprisingly not. Surprisingly not, and I have asked that question for minimum 1 year now.

Far, they haven't really started asking us those kind of questions. Of course, it's a very good question, and I don't know what's going to happen.

I think what we need to do is just position us with our supply chain in the best, most robust way. Now we are in the Philippines, we are partly in Europe with MEMS, we are also having an activity in China.

We are kind of a little bit spread around with the supply chain. What we can do is to kind of make our supply chain robust against whatever is going to happen.

When it comes to camera module guys, they are very concentrated in China. They are Korea, of course.

It's definitely also Korea players. There are Taiwan players, there are options.

It's very much concentrated in China. Let's see what happens.

It's a little bit surprising for me, actually, that we haven't received that, I would say, stronger request. That may happen.

Joakim Bredahl

We couldn't write the risk chapter without mentioning it, and our mitigation is asking.

Øyvind Isaksen

Yeah.

Joakim Bredahl

"Looking at your ongoing consumer POCs, could you give us a breakdown of how many of these projects are targeted towards optical see-through AR glasses versus video pass-through MR devices?"

Øyvind Isaksen

On top of my head, I would say majority is optical see-through, I would say. Majority is that, but there are a few MR video see-through also.

Joakim Bredahl

"In the press release" so this is today's press release with the report "you state that operational costs will increase as you continue to invest in groundwork for future profitability. To help us understand the scale of this, could you elaborate on what specific investments you are prioritizing and how significant you expect this increase to be in the cost base in 2026?

Additionally, what role do strategic partnerships play in this plan?"

Øyvind Isaksen

I think in 2026, I would be surprised if we leave 2026 with, say, 15 more people than we have today. I didn't say 50, I said 15.

Sorry if I was unclear. It's, of course, that's a significant cost increase.

I don't see the alternative, to be honest. They are difficult also to find those people we need.

Yeah. That the cost of that is very depending on where we place them.

If we place them in the Philippines, that's one thing. If you place them in headquarters, that's a completely different thing.

Or China, for that matter, actually. China is very expensive.

Yeah. That's an investment we have to take.

Maybe we're not able to find 15, maybe only find 10, I don't know, but we already so far this year, we have committed four, five, something like that.

Joakim Bredahl

Yeah.

Øyvind Isaksen

We are moving full speed ahead. Yeah.

There was some strategic

Joakim Bredahl

What role do strategic partnerships play in the plan?

Øyvind Isaksen

A little bit uncertain what you mean by that, to be honest, maybe you can elaborate a little bit on that and send us a mail, and we will reply to that question.

Joakim Bredahl

"You stated that some TLens consumer POCs within the AR and MR segments may approach important milestones in 2026. For more clarity, are these expected milestones actual commercial volume orders and design wins, or are they primarily further technical validations?"

Øyvind Isaksen

It was exactly that clarification I didn't want to give. I think he has a good question, definitely good question, and I can understand the question, but I think there should be in 2025, there were kind of proof that things are progressing, right?

Follow-up orders, getting ready for more mature POCs, quite high volume to be POCs. We have kind of proven in the 2025 that there is a good progress.

In 2026, we hope that some of the cases can move towards that we can change the classification from POC to something else. As I said, it's highly dependent on the progress at the customer side, not kind of controlled by us at all.

That's why I'm a little bit vague. I think there will be meaningful progress in 2026 for some of the cases.

Sorry for being unclear.

Joakim Bredahl

I think this questions about cash burn going forward, it relates more or less the same to the previous question about that. Competition: "Any new competition?

Do you see metalenses as a competing technology?"

Øyvind Isaksen

Not so far. No.

Joakim Bredahl

This is the same question that you didn't want to answer,

Øyvind Isaksen

let's

Joakim Bredahl

not ask that again. "Are you working on developing a larger-aperture TLens?"

Øyvind Isaksen

Two ways to answer to that. We have engineering samples of TLens Platinum, which is an aperture size of 2.2, which is on hold.

Recently, last week, I had a meeting with one of the big guys, and they showed interest in also having that available. That's a bigger one from 1.9, which is the Silver Premium, to Platinum 2.2.

The other question to that or answer to that is that much bigger aperture size, then we need a different structure of the TLens. Still will be polymer between two glass membranes, but there need to be a different actuation.

We cannot use the current type MEMS actuation we are using. We did a pre-study of that, which have been reported, and what I said is that pre-study has been concluded, there are solutions, but they're quite costly.

They are also more bulky than the small TLens you know today. We don't believe that that's a good idea for use bigger aperture like 2, 3, 4, 5 No, 3, 4, 5 million millimeter, it's not good match for the consumer side, maybe industrial.

Still, we are waiting before we kick off any real program because we need to see the customer demand. Of course, the TLens Platinum, that can be realized if the customer demand is high enough.

Joakim Bredahl

There's a sort of technical question about classification from our end: "If a big OEM is going for your product in smart glasses, will the design win come when they buy the TLens, TWedge and it's shipping, or can it wait until the OEM has presented the smart glasses in one of their release parties?"

Øyvind Isaksen

No, our definition of design-in is that typically

Joakim Bredahl

Design win.

Øyvind Isaksen

Let me just take the definition. The design-in is a point in time where the customer have moving from POC, which is technical qualification of our technology, into having decided, "We would like to use this technology in a program with a product in mind."

Then when we have that confirmation, we would normally classify it as a design-in. We are planned to be used, but not used yet.

Then, as I said, some of the cases we're working on now is relatively close to that, and maybe some other CEOs would claim they are design-ins, but we are careful in doing that, we want to be 100% sure. Design-in then is a component in a part of a program, a product development at the customer side.

Anything can happen in that design phase: they may not work, they may cancel the program for other strategic reasons, which we have seen before, or they decide to kind of remove it for cost reasons. Many things can happen in the design-in phase, far from given.

Of course, an important milestone. When they have said, "Froze everything, that's it, this is the design, this is the product," and they have a mass production plan, and they're starting to kind of communicate, release, that's when we say design win.

Joakim Bredahl

"It's encouraging to see TWedge maturing. Since TWedge is a much newer innovation than TLens, how much longer patent protection does poLight have for TWedge compared to TLens?"

Øyvind Isaksen

We are continuously working on trying to protect both TLens, extending the lifetime of TLens IP, and also TWedge. We are, well, recently sending new patents last couple of weeks ago about TWedge, we try as good as we can to protect.

Even though the oldest patent is kind of having a lifetime which is relatively close to expiring, we are filling around with incremental kind of IP so that we efficiently in effect prolong the life protection. We spend a lot of money on IP, by the way.

Joakim Bredahl

"Approximately 70% of the quarter revenues were generated from AR/MR. Was AR/MR similarly dominant for the full year, and should we expect a similar AR/MR revenue mix in the coming quarters?"

Øyvind Isaksen

That's difficult to say. I think that if we are successful in our strategy, I think, yes, it will be very very important.

It could be quarter-by-quarter variations. Now we are writing the annual reports, you will see the numbers for the year there, but I think it will vary quarter by quarter, but long-term, I think AR/MR will be the one of the main driver for us.

Joakim Bredahl

"I've noticed that Snke XR has been quite active on LinkedIn regarding their AR headset. Have you received any feedback from Snke about potential customer response or how the market has reacted so far?"

Øyvind Isaksen

I've seen they're quite active on LinkedIn, but we don't know the details there. They are still, I think, in a relatively early days.

I think we're going to receive a unit for our testing. My impression is that they are engaging and have positive feedback, but we don't know the details.

Joakim Bredahl

This is slightly covered, but it's refers to the report: "In Q1 '24, you stated that, as far as you knew, the TLens autofocus solution was the only autofocus technology used in AR/MR devices. Has this changed now, given that you mentioned in the presentation that various autofocus solutions will be used in AR/MR, depending on required specifications and cost sensitivity?"

Øyvind Isaksen

I'm sure whether there will likely, because now there are many players out there and there will for sure be other technologies, for sure. Whether there are, maybe a few, but I'm not sure how many, but could be a few.

As I said, we are still, I think, one of the leading, also when it comes to design wins. I'm thinking, is there anybody out there should be probably a couple of VCM solutions, I would believe.

For future, I'm sure. Why I'm saying that is that when we discuss with customers, we know that they are also doing other things, and we know somebody is using kind of other technology for cost reason, and because it's easier to implement, because they already have the smartphone ecosystem.

That's why we say it that we should be prudent, there will be other players out there. The most advanced people we talk to kind of feels like for us that they put a priority on TLens, that's what we feel.

I'm sure they also explore other things.

Joakim Bredahl

This is a question, but there's a part of this that I think is It's

Øyvind Isaksen

soon 9:30. It's

Joakim Bredahl

soon 9:30,

Øyvind Isaksen

yeah,

Joakim Bredahl

there's not that many questions left. "For both: could you please elaborate on how come R&D have a high cost when the company at the same time establishes higher revenue and establish momentum?"

Then some specific costs about employee benefit increase with 2 million NOK and other operating expenses, which have also increased around 2.5 million NOK. I'm not sure if that refers only to R&D, but what we can say is, first, is that although this is record-high revenue for poLight, it's not high revenue.

It's quite far from high revenue at the moment, and the R&D programs, we have the lead-free program, we have the MLenses continuing, we have the TWedge program, we have lots and lots of customer interactions with our R&D employees, the R&D department is the beating heart of poLight, and those costs will remain high in the R&D.

Øyvind Isaksen

Some of the R&D costs which is there is also external costs. Yeah.

Joakim Bredahl

Yeah. Some is NRE, external NRE,

Øyvind Isaksen

yes, yes.

Joakim Bredahl

Yes. We'll not take that in this Q&A, but you can write an email, we can do a proper analysis of it.

"Given the high activity levels and that operating expenses are expected to increase in 2026, how should we think about the scale and main drivers of those increases?"

Øyvind Isaksen

I think we answered that partly. When it comes to head count at least

Joakim Bredahl

It's mostly head count. Then

Øyvind Isaksen

also it will be the external cost of R&D, because we work with R&D and partners, will also continue to be quite sizeable in 2026 due to the TWedge, due to the lead-free TLens, due to also TWedge and lead-free TLens will need a new driver, we're also going to kick off a driver program. There will quite an extensive external costs also in 2026.

Joakim Bredahl

"You were referring to possible design wins during the year in AR/MR." Did I say that?

Øyvind Isaksen

I said meaningful progress or something. Is it a trick question?

Joakim Bredahl

"This is regarding what you just said. Would a design-in get a press release?

That's the question." Oh,

Øyvind Isaksen

okay. Depends.

Yes, I think if we get one of these things into that level, I think it will deserve a press release, or we make a big fuss about it in the quarterly report, but I think it's likely that it will be a press release, yes.

Joakim Bredahl

I think Flemming

Øyvind Isaksen

is claiming we're forgetting his questions.

Joakim Bredahl

No, we didn't,

Øyvind Isaksen

but

Joakim Bredahl

he does encourage us to keep maybe a 6-months forecast. That's obviously something when we will start communicating a forecast, a financial forecast, that's a discussion topic all the time.

Øyvind Isaksen

Having said that, we are not lacking yearly forecast until 2030-something. That is when we discuss strategy with the board, that is a fundamental part of the information, of course.

When we do huge investments now in the company is not because it's not an attractive forecast, it's because it's a very attractive forecast. It's not that we don't have those forecasts, but we have been saying for so far, and as CFO said, of course, there are still kind of uncertainty, and we would like to mature more before we start to communicate those targets.

We have a very clear strategy and very clear targets which we try to achieve. We have a good development in 2025 compared to 2024.

We hope that continue to develop that way. Over time, we will also be very profitable and very high cash flow.

We don't want to be more concrete at the moment. I understand that that's an interesting discussion and information, but what I can say, we have it, and we execute according to it.

Joakim Bredahl

There's a couple of questions here: "Can you please elaborate on why it's important to have more employees? You've already hired a lot, but mass orders remain.

Are there any cost-saving initiatives?" I think we could say that poLight at the moment is at an extremely interesting inflection point.

We have a position that is unique, and any investment we do now is to capitalize fully on that opportunity. To start saving costs at this point in time would be one of the famous where you sort of stumble on the way to the goal.

Øyvind Isaksen

You can say actually if we continue at this pace with this organization, we will fail, we will do many mistakes. Adding resources will optimize our success and minimize the kind of mistakes we do.

You can say you can spin it positive, say that actually we are saving by doing what we're doing. As you said, Joakim, this is the way to capitalize on the opportunities we see.

I think you should see it positively that the board and the management is willing to invest to bring this company to where it belongs. We have shown you a good progress lately, and we will continue that progress.

Joakim Bredahl

We do not believe that any investors have invested in poLight for 20 million revenues.

Øyvind Isaksen

No.

Joakim Bredahl

We can have one final question. I think this is about other tunable optic solutions.

I think that answer may be too long.

Øyvind Isaksen

No, no, I can take it quick.

Joakim Bredahl

Okay. Which other tunable optics solutions exist and how do they differ compared to yours?

Øyvind Isaksen

Liquid lenses and are different players having a liquid lens, and then you have liquid crystal. Liquid lens, the advantage with that is that they can easier adapt to bigger aperture, bigger image sensor, and also they can easier to get more optical power.

Optical quality, power consumption, compactness, we are outstanding. We may not be as good to have big aperture and high optical power.

Optical quality, power consumption, speed: super, super. Then

Joakim Bredahl

we can take this as a final question, because this is an area that doesn't get a lot of attention: "Speaking of the new ASIC driver development, is this a contract with external consultants, or do you have internal expertise on this? If it's not internal, do you have plans to bring that in-house, or would that be too costly for something that's just adjacent to the main business?"

Øyvind Isaksen

We rely on partners for the existing PD50 we have, that is done together with a partners, and the same will this be. Of course, we have some in-house competence, but not enough to bring that alone.

We typically would specify what we want to design houses, and they will execute for us.

Joakim Bredahl

Let's close off with a good word from Flemming: "Finally, very happy about the progress, the success well-executed by the entire team of poLight." Stand behind that.

Øyvind Isaksen

Thanks. Thanks, Flemming.

Thanks. Is there any last-minute question from the audience?

Yes, we have one.

Joakim Bredahl

Wow,

Øyvind Isaksen

we have one!

Joakim Bredahl

This is rare.

Øyvind Isaksen

Yay! Yes.

Joakim Bredahl

As the interest in poLight rises, are you getting questions from other camera module makers backed by their own OEMs that want the same arrangement as you have with QTech regarding own production line and so on?

Øyvind Isaksen

I would say we have more interest, but I wouldn't say that we have anything today a discussion related concrete discussion related to building a production line at their facilities. Having said that, last meeting I had with one of the big camera module guys, this relationship with QTech was brought up as they could potentially see as a pain point.

Then we said to them, "If you are afraid of that, why don't you do something similar?" It's something we are completely open to do.

Of course, it's a very demanding task for us to bring up a new line with the limited resources we have now. Now we see already now we are so stretched by the key resources which is responsible for the line in the Philippines now also have to kind of be diluted into the QTech line.

If you're going to do another one on top of that, I think they will kill me. Even though as a sales guy, I'm offering that, but so far we haven't started anything, and I don't think we have the capacity today to do it either.

Okay. Super.

Thank you for coming to this quarterly presentation. Thanks to all of you for asking questions.

It was a lot today, huh?

Joakim Bredahl

It's always a lot, but a lot of very good questions.

Øyvind Isaksen

This was a lot, a lot. That's good.

That makes the presentation more dynamic and more interesting, and we answer to what you would like to hear. You should be aware that there is this portal, Investorweb.

Joakim Bredahl

Investorweb Q&A on Monday.

Øyvind Isaksen

Yes, there is the Q&A on Monday, if there exist more questions, I don't know, but there is a Q&A on Monday with Investorweb. Also, my point was, Investorweb, they also have this portal where you can ask questions and we reply.

We often get questions directly on our email, and that's also fine, but it's even better if you do use that portal, because then everybody see, and they see the question, and they see the reply. Super.

Thank you, and thanks for you participating on the web, if there is anybody there, and see you next quarter, Q1 in April, is it?

Joakim Bredahl

Yeah. When you're back in Norway.

Øyvind Isaksen

When I'm back in Norway. Thank you.

Bye.