EPIC Suisse Ltd.

EPIC Suisse Ltd.

85.40
CHF
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925.54MMarket Cap

Q2 FY2026 · Earnings Call TranscriptAugust 25, 2026

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Epic Suisse AG 2026 Half-Year Results Conference Call. I am Mathilde, the Chorus Call operator.

I would like to remind you that all participants will be in listen-only mode and the conference is being recorded. The presentation will be followed by a Q&A session.

You can register for questions at any time by pressing * and 1 on your telephone. For operator assistance, please press * and 0.

The conference must not be recorded for publication or broadcast. At this time, it's my pleasure to hand over to Roni Greenbaum, Chairman.

Please go ahead.

Roni Greenbaum

Thank you, operator, and good morning, everyone. I would like to welcome all of you for joining our Epic Suisse conference call for the Half-Year Results 2026.

My name is Roni Greenbaum, and I am the Chairman of the Board of Epic Suisse AG. On the call with me this morning are, as always, our CEO Arik Parizer, our CFO Valérie Scholtes, and our Portfolio Director Philippe Kholer.

You should all received by now our press release this morning, and you can find it on our website epic.ch in the English section of the Media and Investors. In addition, you can find there is the Half-Year Report 2026 as well as the presentation to this call.

Let me just state that we are, again, very proud of our results, having achieved not only strong operating results, but also we have realized a nice one-off disposal gain from the sale of the property in Lausanne. I will let Arik and Valérie to take you through the slides and the presentation for the next 30 minutes or so, and then the four or five of us will be available for a Q&A session.

Arik, go ahead.

Arik Parizer

Thank you, Roni, and good morning, everyone. I would like to join Roni's comments and to also welcome you all to Epic Suisse Half-Year 2026 Results Conference Call.

As Roni mentioned, Valérie and I will go through the slide deck that was published on the company's website this morning before we open the line for Q&A. It is a great pleasure for me to share with you all today, once again, very strong results and to update you on our ongoing operation and developments.

As usual, let me start with a quick overview of the economy. As you can see on slide 3 of the presentation, the macro picture hasn't really changed much since our last presentation in March 2026.

Inflation in Switzerland is now expected to increase a little from the 0.2% level during 2025 to 0.6% during both 2026 and 2027. On the other hand, GDP growth is expected to come down from the 1.5% level in 2025 to 0.9% in 2026 before increasing again to 1.6% in 2027.

While consumer sentiment has improved slightly, it still remains negative and stands at around -34.8, indicating a continued uncertainty from the consumer side. In this economically and politically challenging environment, our company continue to be very stable, and despite the sale of our property Vennes 3 in May 2026, the market value of our real estate portfolio remained at 1.7 billion Swiss francs.

As you can see on slide number 5, the real estate portfolio as at 30th of June 2026 was split according to market value as follows: 53% in the Lake Geneva region, 34% in the Zurich economic area, and 13% in other locations, notably cantons St. Gallen, Bern, and Glarus.

The portfolio remained also well-diversified by sector, with market values per sectors as follows: 41% offices, 35% retail, 23% logistics and light industrial, and 1% developments. We have 24 properties with almost 365,000 square meters of lettable area as at June 30th of June 2026.

Including our recently completed developments Puls and Campus Leman Building C, the net rental income yield of properties in operation during the year was 4.1%, as Puls is still in the letting phase. The portfolio continues to benefit from a long WAULT of 7.6 years.

On slide number 7, you can see the main highlights of the H1 2026 period. In the 6 months to 30th of June 2026, we continued to grow our rental income by 4% to 34.7 million Swiss francs compared to 33.4 million Swiss francs in H1 2025.

Most of that increase was thanks to the start of the rental income from our two completed development projects, which began to contribute meaningfully to the rental income already in the second half of 2025. On a like-for-like basis, the growth was 0.5%, the main contributor being the lower vacancies.

Because of the normal absorption time of our recently completed developments Puls and Campus Leman Building C, our reported vacancy for properties in operation increased to 9.4% during the period compared to 3.8% in H1 2025. If we exclude these recently completed developments, then the adjusted vacancy for the period is only 2.9%.

For reminder, as we did in the past, to be fully transparent with the progress of the letting in our recently completed developments, in addition to the usual reported vacancy, we will report adjusted vacancy in our KPI during the next 3 years. Our WAULT remained long and stood at 7.6 years as at 30th of June 2026 compared to 7.9 years as at 31 December 2025.

As we sold at the end of May the office building Vennes 3 with a gain on disposal of 9.4 million Swiss francs, representing a 23% higher price compared to the market value of 31 December 2025. Our EBITDA excluding the gain on disposal and excluding the gain on unrealized revaluation of properties increased during the period to 28.1 million Swiss francs compared to 26.8 million Swiss francs during H1 2025.

If you consider the gain on disposal, then the EBITDA for the period comes in at 37.6 million Swiss francs. We continue to have a very solid equity ratio with 54.4% as at 30th of June 2026.

This positive ratio was improved compared to the 53.5% as at 31 December 2025 and compared to the 40- 48.4% as at June 2025 thanks to our robust results, the successful capital raise in December 2025, and the attractive selling price of our disposed property. Slide 9 summarizes the portfolio key figures.

On 30th of June, we have 24 properties in operation and two properties under development: Nexus Roggwil and Campus Leman Building D in Morges. Our total portfolio value stands at 1.67 billion Swiss francs, which is split between the two segments as follows: properties in operation stands at 1.66 billion Swiss francs, while properties under development amount to 11 million Swiss francs.

As I mentioned, the vacancy rate for properties in operation during the period was 9.4%, with the adjusted vacancy being only 2.9% for the same period and compared to 3.8% for H1 2025 and 3.4% for the year ended December 2025. I've already commented on the WAULT, which we consider at 7.6 years to be very attractive.

As usual, we do not report the individual market value per property, but on slide number 10, you can see the portion of the top 10 properties in operations out of the total market value of the portfolio as well as the respective uses. As you can see, the top 10 properties in operations represent 68% of our total portfolio value.

We have five properties in operations with a value in excess of 100 million Swiss francs. The average asset value amounted to approximately 60 million Swiss francs, while the smallest asset that we have in operations carried a value of about 6 million Swiss francs.

Overall, we consider our portfolio well-balanced also from risk perspective. Slide number 11 shows the change in the market value of our portfolio.

Overall, we had a slight decrease in market value compared to 31 December 2025, but this is due to the disposed asset Vennes 3. If we exclude this disposed property, the market value actually increased by 1.4% from 1.64 billion Swiss francs to 1.67 billion Swiss francs.

This increase was mainly driven by the following two impacts: net unrealized revaluation gain of 13.8 million Swiss francs and capex spent during the period amounting to 8.8 million. On slide number 12, you can see in blue the breakdown of the revaluations per sector as at 30 June 2026 and the comparable numbers for H1 2025.

As in previous years, all our properties were valued by the independent valuer Wüest Partner, who revalues our properties every 6 months. As mentioned in the previous slide, the revaluation resulted in a net unrealized revaluation gain of 13.8 million Swiss francs.

This was driven by a change in each of the sectors as follows: a gain of 8.7 million in the office sector, a gain of 1.8 million in the retail sector, a gain of 3.6 million Swiss francs in the logistics sector, and finally, a small loss of 0.2 million in properties under development. The average real discount rate decreased from 3.3% in June 2026 compared to 3.32% in December 2025.

On slide number 13, you can see in the graph on the left-hand side of the slide the reconciliations between reported vacancy and adjusted vacancy for the properties in operations, whereas in the table on the right-hand side, you can see both the reported and adjusted vacancies per sector. Let me begin with the graph on the left-hand side of the slide.

As you can see, the total vacancy that we had during the period amounted to 3.7 million Swiss francs, or 9.4%. However, if we take out the vacancy of Puls amounting to 2.6 million Swiss francs and the immaterial vacancy in Campus Leman Building C of 88,000, we arrive at the adjusted vacancy amount of 990,000, or only 2.9%.

It is important to reiterate why we report the adjusted vacancy. Given developments that we do in order to achieve higher returns, we do not expect our buildings to be fully let upon completion.

We've done this time and time again over the years, and to be fully transparent with the letting situation, we report both KPIs for a period of a maximum of 3 years after the completion of the developments. I would also like to take a moment and share with you the letting situation in our development building Puls, where the letting have increased from 37% of our communicated target rent to 41% during the period.

We can confirm that we're having good discussions with some tenants, but due to the nature of the tenants and the global economic instability, this takes longer than before. We are very confident with the design of the building, and are happy that tenants such as subsidiaries of the Thermo Fisher Group, PMI Group, or our most recent signature, Eurofins Group, which is a public group on the Euronext exchange, as well as other tenants, have been attracted to the building because of its design and flexibility, and have decided to move their operations to Puls.

Having said this, we remain laser-focused on further discussions with further future potential tenants. Moving on to the table on the right-hand side, you can see office reported vacancy stood at 3.4%, while adjusted vacancy was 3%.

Retail reported and adjusted vacancies were the same at 3.8%. Logistics and industrial reported vacancy was 28.6%, while adjusted vacancy was 0.2%.

As mentioned, the overall reported vacancy was 9.4%, and adjusted vacancy 2.9%. On the left-hand side of slide number 14, you can see that the increase in rental income of 1.3 million Swiss francs comes from a like-for-like increase of 0.2 million and an increase of 1.1 million Swiss francs from other properties, being Vennes 3, Campus Leman Building C, and Puls.

The like-for-like increase was split between the different sectors as follows: office sector, an increase of 2.1%, mainly due to lower vacancies; retail, a slight increase of 0.5%; logistics and industrial, a decrease of 3.4%, mainly due to incentive that we gave in one of our properties. Overall, we had a like-for-like increase of 0.5% and a total increase of 4%.

On slide 15, you can see the list of our top six tenants. The top six tenants group of tenants are all very solid tenants and represented 49% of our net rental income during the 6 months to 30th of June 2026.

The contracts with those six tenants have a very long WAULT of 9.3 years, and the total net rental income for the period amounted to 17 million Swiss francs for these six six tenants alone. The other 17.7 million Swiss francs net rental income are well-spread over circa 160 tenants of different sizes.

It is important to note that almost 90% of our net rental income on a weighted average basis is linked to the Swiss CPI index. On slide 16, you can see the expiry profile of our leases.

As you will notice, more than 50% more than 53% of our leases will expire post December 2031. Out of the 5% expiring in 2026, 59% relate to contracts with either no fixed maturity or already renewed or relet, while the remaining expiries relate to surfaces that are on the market.

In 2027, we only have 1.7% of expiries. I would now like to pass the word on to Valérie, who will go through the financial numbers in more details.

Valérie Scholtes

Good morning, everyone. It's also a pleasure for me to report on our 2026 Half-Year Results, following another productive 6 months marked by an increase in profitability compared to the same period last year.

As I will explain later in the presentation, the underlying performance of the portfolio improved, which was then complemented by the successful sale of our property Vennes 3. For transparency and comparability purposes, the results—EBITDA, profit, return on equity ratios, and earnings per share—have been reported in three ways: first, including all revaluations, realized and unrealized, which reflects our IFRS financial state- statements; secondly, excluding only the unrealized revaluation effects, that means including the realized profit from the sale Vennes 3; and finally, excluding the disposal gain and the unrealized revaluation effects.

In addition, it's important to know that for KPI reporting purposes involving the profit and loss, the properties are considered as per the category they were classified in as at 1st of January. As a reminder, Puls and Campus Leman Building C were moved from investment properties under construction/development to investment properties in operation on the last day of last year, on 31st of December 2025.

This means that they were classified in investment properties under development/construction during the financial year 2025, while they are classified in investment properties in operation for the financial year 2026 and beyond. As usual, I will cover three main areas: first, the equity and liability side of our balance sheet; secondly, the performance of our portfolio; and finally, how this performance translate into net asset value and earnings per share for our investors.

For each of the key figure tables, I will highlight the essential points, and then I will dive into those on the following slides. Let's start on slide 17 with our balance sheet.

Despite the dividend distribution of 35.9 million in April 2026, our equity slightly increased to 924 million end of June 2026 compared to 921 million end of December 2025, and this corresponds to comfortable equity ratios of 54.4% and 53.5% respectively. Following the sale of our property Vennes 3 and then the use of the net proceeds to partially and temporarily repay some bank debts, the level of our mortgage-secured bank loans decreased below the threshold of 600 million to 596 million, down from 617 million end of last year.

Thus, our net loan-to-value ratio further decreased from 35.5% end of December 2025 to 35.1% end of June 2026, well below our target net loan-to-value ratio medium-term of about 45%. The annualized return on equity ratio, excluding the disposal and unrealized revaluation effects, which in fact reflects our underlying performance, for H1 2026 came to 4.8% compared to 4.9% for the financial year 2025.

The slight drop being explained by the comparatively higher average IFRS NAV in H1 2026 following the capital increase in December 2025. When we include the net profit of the Vennes 3 sale, the annualized return on equity ratio reached 6.5%.

As illustrated by slide 18, our robust H1 2026 result of 39.8 million allowed our equity to remain above the December 2025 level considering the dividend distribution of 35.9 million already mentioned earlier on. In line with our predictable and gradual dividend policy, the dividend per share was further increased from 3.15 Swiss francs last year to 3.20 Swiss francs this year, allowing for a dividend yield of 3.7% based on the 2025 year-end closing share price of 87 Swiss francs.

The IFRS NAV per share equaled 82.49 Swiss francs end of June 2026, which is the equivalent of 94.06 Swiss francs when we disregard the deferred tax elements. Let's now have a look at the liability side of our balance sheet on slide 19.

As at 30th of June 2026, the group keeps benefiting from a low weighted average cost of debt of 1.2%. The bank financing costs decreased by 0.3 million to 3.7 million in H1 2026 compared to 4 million in H1 2025.

This primarily thanks to the lower bank debt levels, and also lower amounts of variable financing costs as the Swiss reference rate, which is also the basis for SARON, progressively decreased from 0.5% as at 1st of January 2025 to 0% as at 30th of June 2025, and stayed at this level, 0%, since then. At the balance sheet date, 80% of our mortgage-secured bank loans were hedged either using fixed interest rate contracts or interest rate swaps.

This percentage gets to 72% when we exclude the interest rate swap coming to maturity on 30th of September 2026. As at 30th of June 2026, all cross-currency swaps did unwind without crystallizing any foreign exchange currency differences.

As a consequence, there are also no more US dollar loans as at period end. As a reminder, this cross-currency swap did allow the group to benefit from lower bank margins, 11 to 14 basis points lower over a period of 2 years.

Moving now to the performance of our portfolio for the first 6 months of this year, and except for the net rental income yield, the table on page 20 presents a lovely set of nine blue arrows pointing upwards. As already explained by Arik, the rental income from the real estate properties grew by 4% between the two reporting periods, many thanks to Puls and Campus Leman Building C being fully operational in the first 6 months of this year while still partially under construction in H1 2025.

The H1 2026 net rental income yield for properties in operation decreased to 4.1% compared to 4.5% in H1 2025, as Puls moved from a P&L point of view from 1st of January 2026 to properties in operation, but actually is still in its letting phase. Excluding Puls and Campus Leman Building C, the net rental income yield for properties in operation corresponded to 4.4%.

The net operating income amounted to 32 million in H1 2026 compared to 30.6 million in H1 H1 2025, showing a 4.3% progression, almost entirely driven by the top-line growth. Arik also commented already on the net unrealized revaluation gain on properties of 13.8 million for the first 6 months of this year.

The sale of our property Vennes 3 generated a realized revaluation gain of 9.4 million, or a 23% uplift above the latest independent valuation as at 31st of December 2025. After tax, this led to a net profit of 8.1 million.

Arik will further comment on the sales rationale later in this presentation. The table shows, as already mentioned, the reported EBITDA, reported profit, as well as the EBITDA and profit lines adjusted for the unrealized revaluation effects with or without the disposal.

The reported EBITDA amounted to 41.4 million for the first 6 months of the year versus 40.6 million in the first six months of last year. When we look at the underlying performance of the portfolio, the adjusted EBITDA, excluding the disposal and unrealized revaluation of properties, rose by 4.8% from 26.8 million last year to 28.1 million this year, as the other operating expenses actually remained overall constant over the two reporting periods.

The financial result came to a net expense of 4.3 million in H1 2026 compared to 5.2 million in H1 2025. When we exclude the unrealized revaluation effects of the derivatives and the related underlying US dollar loans over the reporting periods, the financial result decreased by 0.3 million from 4.3 million in the first 6 months of this year to 4 million—sorry, in the first 6 months of last year, sorry, to 4 million in the first 6 months of th- this year, as a result of lower bank financing costs.

As already mentioned, following the unwinding of the cross-currency swap, there will be no more foreign currency effects on the on on the underlying US dollar loans going forwards. All of this translated into a profit of 39.8 million for the first half of this year in comparison to 30 million previously.

Again, when we look at the underlying performance of the portfolio, that means excluding the one-off profit on the sale and the unrealized revaluation effects, the adjusted profit amounted to 22 million, showing a 1.5 million increase, or 7.5%, in comparison to the 20.5 million achieved in H1 2025. When we re-include the realized net profit on the disposal, the profit arrived at 30.1 million.

As usual, the next two slides summarize visually what I have just said about our H1 2026 performance. Slide 21 shows the main P&L components from rental income to the three EBITDA KPIs, while slide 22 contest graphically the underlying performance of the first 6 months of 2026 compared to 2025.

On slide 22, again except for the net rental income yield, which I have already commented on and whose decrease actually is mainly due to the segment reclassification of Puls and Campus Leman Building C, the NOI margins and the EBITDA margins, again excluding the disposal and unrealized revaluation of properties, remained attractive and overall stable over the two reporting periods at 89% and 78% respectively. Now this leads me to the final slide of my presentation, slide 23, and how this performance translate into earnings per share for the investors.

On slide 23, please note the change in weighted average number of outstanding shares between H1 2025 and H1 2026 following the December 2025 capital increase, as this impacts the earnings per share calculations. Despite the number of shares increase, our H1 2026 earnings per share at 1.97 Swiss francs, again excluding the disposal and unrealized revaluation effects, almost matched last year's comparable period levels at 1.98 Swiss francs.

In conclusion, our business keeps to grow continues to grow, sorry, and to generate solid results, and our focus remains the gradual letting of our property Puls. Now without the further delays, Arik will provide you with an update on the disposal rationale and the ongoing developments.

Arik Parizer

Thank you, Valérie. Let me elaborate a little bit more why we sold Vennes 3 in Lausanne.

As most of you know us well by now, you are aware that selling properties is not part of our long-term strategy, and this is actually the first time we sold a property since becoming a public company 4 years ago and only the second time we sold one of our buildings since Epic inception more than 20 years ago. The building is an office building on the outskirts of Lausanne and is let to Chuv as a single tenant.

We carried out the full cycle with this building: we the we developed it, we constructed it, we s- we found a tenant for it, and we also managed manage it until the sale in May in May this year. We bought the land in 2011 and completed the construction of this building in 2013.

Also with this building, we started the construction in 2011 without any pre-let. The total construction cost of the building amounted at the time to 34.3 million, including the land.

We have collected rent over the years in the amount of 29.3 million Swiss francs. The building was valued by Wüest Partner at December 2025 at 41.6 million Swiss francs, and we sold it for 23% above this value, or almost 50% above our total investment cost, for net proceeds of 51.1 million Swi- Swiss francs net of production cost.

This percentage These percentages exclude, of course, the rent of 29.3 million collected in these properties over the years. Even though we like the building, we felt that it was the right decision to sell the building to better optimize our pres- our presence around the Biopôle campus.

We already own four more buildings in the vicinity of to Vennes 3 and felt that we prefer to focus our attention on the attractive Biopôle campus. We also felt that it was the right time to sell.

As the market is very strong, we could generate significant interest, and as you can see by the upside to the market value, we've achieved an attractive selling price partly also given the single tenant and relatively long tenant contract. Moving on to slide number 27, where you can see an update on our upcoming developments.

Now that Puls and Campus Leman Building C have been reclassified, we have the following current and future developments: Campus Leman Building D, Nexus Roggwil, and Tolochenaz, which today is in our properties in operations, but is expected to move to developments in phases as we develop the land. Starting with Campus Leman Building D, this is the third and final phase of the project that included over the past years buildings A and B as well as Building C that was completed just last year.

We expect to submit the building permit for Building D later this year. It is only a small building of about 800 square meters of lettable area, but it is an important phase for us to close the campus and to be able to offer to our current tenants on campus on the campus the possibility to expand on site in case they wish to do so.

As a reminder, with the final floor on Building C, which is on the brink of signature, once this is done, the campus would be 100% let, and that is why Building D is important for us. Moving on to to Rogg- to Rogg- to Roggpark in Roggwil, we have our technical advisory team working on various scenarios to achieve the most efficient project, which would be attractive to potential tenants and will also make the most efficient use of the land.

We expect to submit the building permit for this project during H1 2027. Finally, Tolochenaz.

As the authorities have been working on new buildings on new building rights on this land. While we have significant building rights already in place, we feel that the new master plan will provide more flexible building rights that will allow that will allow us develop different products which could fit which could fit different types of demand, such as offices, logistics, medtech, labs, some retail, and maybe even a hotel.

We understand that the plan is with the cantonal authorities at this stage for a final approval, and should it be approved, the revised building rights would come into force subject to the usual statutory opposition rights. Let me now take you to our outlook on slide number 29.

Epic Suisse's prime focus remains the sustainable and mid- to long-term growth and profitability of its portfolio and consolidation of the lettings of the recently completed developments. Assuming no materially adverse changes on our operation during the year, we are increasing the company's guidance for this year's net rental income compared to what we've announced in our ad hoc announcement on 29th of May, when we sold Vennes 3, from an increase of approximately 1% to an increase of approximately 1.5% compared to 2025 net rental income.

With this, we end the presentation part of the call. I would like to now open the line for Q&A.

Operator

We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press * and 1 on the telephone.

You will hear a tone to confirm that you have entered the queue. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press * and 2.

Questioners on the phone are requested to disable the loudspeaker mode while asking a question. Anyone who has a question may press * and 1 at this time.

The first question becomes from the line of Philippe Züger from Zürcher Kantonalbank. Please go ahead.

Philippe Züger

Yes, good morning. I do have a couple of questions.

I lost the connection, maybe jump back to the sale of the property in Lausanne. Do you have any other sales in the portfolio?

Or do you plan to sell some other buildings? Then the second part of the question, how do you see the current market situation to buy any commercial properties?

Roni Greenbaum

At the moment, we have no plan of selling any other properties. It's, as Arik mentioned, it was a one-off.

It was with a specific reason to sell it, as Arik mentioned in the call. Basically, it was to focus on Biopôle and not to compete with ourselves.

We already have four buildings there, and we decided to focus on the other side of the road. Regarding the market, so, as we're not competing for plain vanilla building.

We cannot buy building which are already let and done, fully developed. We are competing on a more niche area where we can buy building and reposition them.

We can buy a land and start development from scratch, similar to what we're doing in Roggwil at the moment. The market is tough.

It's hard to buy, but we are still optimistic that we will be able to extend the portfolio by new acquisition. We are currently studying a few opportunities, and hopefully they will mature for us to be able to buy them.

As we did a capital raise with intention to also to extend the portfolio, and, yeah, we're working hard to get it.

Philippe Züger

Thank you. Second question goes to Tolochenaz.

Mentioned before you're waiting for the final approval. What could be the time horizon for to get permit?

Arik Parizer

We believe that that's the feedback that we get from the authorities that if everything goes according to plan, then it should be later this year or latest early next year.

Philippe Züger

Great. Thank you.

Last question is to the Campus Leman Building C. You mentioned in the press release that you're able to or you're in quite close negotiations with the sixth floor.

Maybe give an update again?

Arik Parizer

It's even beyond that. We're already in the final contract exchange, and we expect it to be signed very shortly.

It really is on the brink of signature. All the terms have been negotiated, they've been agreed by the parties, and we expect it to be signed, yeah, in the next 2, 3 weeks.

Philippe Züger

Perfect. Thank you for the presentation and answers.

Arik Parizer

Thank you, Philippe.

Operator

As a reminder, if you wish to register for a question, please press * and 1 on your telephone. Ladies and gentlemen, there are no more questions at this time.

I would now like to turn the conference back over to Roni Greenbaum for any closing remarks.

Roni Greenbaum

Thank you very much. The next time we speak will be full-year results next year, and we hope to continue to present you with growth and good figures.

Yeah. Anyway, if there is any question after this call, feel free.

You can contact us at any time. We're available for answering any question.

Thank you very much, and have a nice day.

Valérie Scholtes

Have a nice day.

Arik Parizer

Thank you very much. Have a good day.

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, the conference is now over. Thank you for choosing Chorus Call, and thank you for participating in the conference.

You may now disconnect your lines. Goodbye.