Douglas Emmett, Inc.

Douglas Emmett, Inc.

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Nov 03Next Earn

Q2 FY2026 · Earnings Call TranscriptAugust 5, 2026

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by. Welcome to Douglas Emmett's quarterly earnings call.

Today's call is being recorded. At this time, all participants are in listen-only mode.

After management's prepared remarks, you will receive instructions for participating in the question-and-answer session. I will now turn the conference over to Stuart McElhinney, Vice President of Investor Relations for Douglas Emmett.

Stuart McElhinney

Thank you. Joining us today on the call are Jordan Kaplan, our Chairman and CEO; Kevin Crummy, our CIO; and Peter Seymour, our CFO.

This call is being webcast live from our website and will be available for replay during the next 90 days. You can also find our earnings package at the Investor Relations section of our website.

You can find reconciliations of non-GAAP financial measures discussed during today's call in the earnings package. During this call, we will make forward-looking statements.

These forward-looking statements are based on the beliefs of, assumptions made by, and information currently available to us. Our actual results will be affected by known and unknown risks, trends, uncertainties, and factors that are beyond our control or ability to predict.

Although we believe that our assumptions are reasonable, they are not guarantees of future performance, and some will prove to be incorrect. Therefore, our actual future results can be expected to differ from our expectations, and those differences may be material.

For a more detailed description of some potential risks, please refer to our SEC filings, which can be found in the Investor Relations section of our website. When we reach the question-and-answer portion, in consideration of others, please limit yourself to one question and one follow-up.

Thank you. I will now turn the call over to Jordan.

Jordan Kaplan

Good morning, and thank you for joining us. We had a very active quarter and made real progress on all four of our strategic priorities, which are leasing up our office portfolio, acquiring properties at attractive pricing, redeveloping properties to maximize value, and refinancing upcoming debt maturities.

We signed 960,000 square feet of office leases with a good mix of new and renewal deals, and achieved positive absorption of approximately 60,000 square feet. Healthy office rents and low concessions helped us sign new leases that were 3% more valuable than the expiring leases they replaced.

Of course, most of the positive impact of this leasing will occur over the next 12 months. Our apartment portfolio remains fully leased with increasing rents.

On the acquisition front, we and a few of our joint venture partners acquired an extremely well-leased block of prime Beverly Hills medical office properties. Our redevelopment efforts are exceeding expectations.

Studio Plaza in Burbank is now leased well over 50%, we have moved it from development to in-service. Our apartment redevelopment projects are on track to add over 1,000 new units.

Finally, we refinanced over $800 million of debt this quarter. With that, I will turn the call over to Kevin.

Kevin Crummy

Thanks, Jordan, and good morning. As Jordan mentioned, in April, we and our joint venture partners acquired the Bedford Collection, a five-building, 246,000-square-foot medical office portfolio in the Beverly Hills Golden Triangle for $260 million.

We manage the joint venture and hold a 13.3% equity stake. The entity was capitalized with $150 million of equity and $130 million of debt.

In addition, during the quarter, we refinanced two office loans scheduled to mature later this year. In May, we refinanced a $400 million loan for four years and effectively fixed the interest at 6.15% until June 2029.

In June, we refinanced a $415 million loan for four years and effectively fixed the interest at 6.18% until July 2029. With that, I will turn the call over to Stuart.

Stuart McElhinney

Thanks, Kevin. Good morning, everyone.

During the second quarter, we signed 234 office leases totaling just under 960,000 square feet, including 93 new leases totaling over 375,000 square feet and 141 renewal leases totaling over 584,000 square feet. That's a healthy leasing volume for us, and it builds on the momentum we've been seeing over the past few quarters.

On rental rates, the straight-line value of leases we executed in the quarter increased by 3.2% compared to the prior leases for the same space, with our typical 3% to 5% annual fixed rent bumps continuing to more than offset the impact of lower beginning cash rents. As Jordan mentioned, we have now moved Studio Plaza to our in-service portfolio.

Since the first-generation leases at Studio Plaza take longer to build out, this will have the effect of widening our leased-to-occupied spread for the next few quarters. In addition, while the leased rate at Studio Plaza is now well over 50%, its inclusion will mean lower reported leased and occupied percentages for our office portfolio until occupancy at Studio Plaza equals or exceeds our average office occupancy.

Our lease transaction costs averaged $5.35 per square foot per year, well below the benchmark for other office REITs. Our residential portfolio continues to perform well, with cash same-property NOI up 2% compared to the second quarter of last year.

Demand remains very strong across our markets, with our portfolio still over 99% leased. With that, I will turn the call over to Peter to discuss our financial results.

Peter Seymour

Thanks, Stuart. Good morning, everyone.

Compared to the second quarter of 2025, revenue increased from $252 million to $257 million. FFO increased, but still rounded to 37 cents per share, and AFFO increased from $54 million to $56 million.

Same-property cash NOI decreased 1.2% for the quarter. At approximately 4.9% of revenue, our G&A remains the lowest among our benchmark group.

We are now including Studio Plaza in our occupancy assumption for the full year. Despite being leased well over 50%, its occupancy has not yet reached the average for our portfolio.

Solely as the result of including Studio Plaza for the full year, we are lowering our office occupancy guidance range to between 75% and 77%. Our operating income expectations have improved from our prior projections, but we anticipate that this improvement will be more than offset by the impact of higher market interest rates.

Therefore, we now expect our 2026 diluted net income per common share to be between -$0.20 and -$0.16 and our fully diluted FFO per share to be between $1.39 and $1.43. For information on assumptions underlying our guidance, please refer to the schedule in the earnings package.

As usual, our guidance does not assume the impact of future property acquisitions or dispositions, common stock sales or repurchases, financings, property damage insurance recoveries, impairment charges, or other possible capital markets activities. I will now turn the call over to the operator so we can take your questions.

Operator

We will now begin the question-and-answer session. To ask a question, you may press star, then one on your telephone keypad.

If you are using a speakerphone, please pick up your handset before pressing the keys. If at any time your question has been addressed and you would like to withdraw the question, please press star, then two.

Again, in consideration of other participants, please limit your queries to one question and one follow-up. At this time, we will pause momentarily to assemble our roster.

Our first question comes from Steve Sakwa with Evercore. Please go ahead.

Steve Sakwa

Thanks. Good morning.

Maybe Jordan or Stuart, could you maybe just comment a little bit more on the leasing activity? You've obviously now had two pretty solid quarters on the new lease side, and I'm just curious if there's any sort of larger deals that may be influencing that trend and kind of what is your expectation for new leasing volume moving into the back half of the year?

Jordan Kaplan

We can both answer that.

Stuart McElhinney

Look, I'll jump in. I'd say we've had three really good quarters, actually, if you go back to—

Jordan Kaplan

That's what I was going to say.

Stuart McElhinney

Three three pretty good quarters in a row. We've we're we're building on the momentum here, we're excited about what's going on in the leasing.

Another another great quarter with 960,000 feet. I think the Q1, if you look at Q1 with the record new leasing we did last quarter, that was chunkier, as we talked a little bit about that last quarter with some larger deals.

This quarter was was less so. Just we had pretty typical activity from, that larger group that we call over 10,000 feet this quarter, not super chunky.

I think we're we're very optimistic that we're going to have good momentum continue through the second half of the year.

Jordan Kaplan

I agree with all that. I'm very happy with what our leasing group is doing.

I hope that we're getting a little wind at our back, and we're going to continue, and it feels that way. Like I keep saying, I don't know if the proof's in one quarter, two quarters, three quarters, four quarters, but when I look at what we've done, I feel very good.

Steve Sakwa

Then maybe just on the debt, I know you've got a couple of swap maturities coming up over the next kind of 12 months or so. Just kind of remind us your plans for those swaps, and is there anything you can do to sort of help mitigate or offset some of that higher interest expense, or kind of it is what it is?

Jordan Kaplan

I don't want to say it is what it is. That's for sure.

Look, we don't choose to live in a world where we have a lot floating, right? When you see something go to floating, it's probably during the last bit of the term of that loan, which means we're going to refi that loan.

We've started working on refining that loan, and it can get refied at the beginning of that time or later in that time. We have a window to do it.

I don't think we're going to stay floating. I'm not thrilled with where interest rates are, but we were just talking about that.

I'm really trying to think of a good way to deal with those interest rates, because the rest of the company, the rest of what's going on is so good that I feel that the increased cost of interest We were low-leverage. None of our buildings are jeopardized.

None of the ownership is jeopardized. It's really kind of clouding our performance, and it bothers me as much as it bothers you guys.

We're really thinking about solutions to that.

Steve Sakwa

Thanks. That's it for me.

Jordan Kaplan

Thanks.

Operator

Our next question comes from Jamie Feldman with Wells Fargo. Please go ahead.

Jamie Feldman

Great. Thanks for taking the question.

I'm sitting in for Blaine today. Interesting portfolio transaction in Beverly Hills.

Can you just talk more about any other interesting opportunities you're working on or that might be out there, whether unique asset types or larger portfolio transactions? Then, with the transaction market improving and investors maybe getting more aggressive, how have return requirements changed, both in terms of what you're willing to get and what your investors are looking for?

Jordan Kaplan

I got to tell you, cuz it's funny, to me, we had a great quarter. I was surprised the stock was off, cuz we were talking about, I'm like, this is the best time to be in real estate.

We're working on a bunch of acquisitions. I will tell you that.

Will we make them? I don't know that, but there're definitely some large ones and it's getting a ton of our focus.

We've gone through very long periods where we've been accused of some early on after 2009, we only buy, we don't develop, then as we got later in the term, we were only developing, we never buy anything. Now we're back to buying, which we are developing residential, but I love buying deals at good pricing, and I think the opportunity is extremely good right now.

Other than interest rates are probably playing a part in the opportunity that's created, this is a great time to be in real estate, cuz I believe in the markets, I believe in the real estate, and pricing has conspired in the way it hasn't since the early '90s to create opportunities to buy fantastic buildings that we've been after forever. That's what's driving most of my travel.

Jamie Feldman

Okay. I guess the second part of the question was just return expectations, how are yours changing given maybe markets are improving, and then how are your investors changing or what they're looking for changing?

Jordan Kaplan

Everybody is looking for better returns, driven by where interest rates are and a lack of equity and debt that's generally available in the market, which is probably what is creating the opportunity. At the same time, it means we're not always in agreement with the seller.

We're obviously making deals. You're watching us do it.

We are making these deals in a very good part with our JV partners, who seem pretty happy with what's going on, cuz they continue to ask what's next. We have to get the what's next and get it organized and get it in front of them correctly, because there's definitely an appetite now which you're seeing even for office in our markets.

Jamie Feldman

Thank you for that. Then I guess for my follow-up, it looks like there were some adjustments in the UCLA tenancy this quarter.

You have two more leases with them in one additional property, and some expirations were shifted. Can you give us a general idea of how your conversations with them are going and how committed to their space in your portfolio they seem to be?

Then can you also comment on the 77,000-square-foot Morgan Stanley expiration in '27? Thank you.

Stuart McElhinney

Sure. Yeah.

Sure, Jamie. I think we're in good conversations with UCLA about the remaining expirations this year.

We feel good about that. They don't act like a single large tenant.

They have a bunch of leases with us, and literally we've had it in one quarter where they've given back space and leased space in the same quarter, because they have a bunch of different departments that are kind of acting independently. We feel good about the space that's coming up.

Same with Morgan Stanley next year. I think there's productive conversations happening.

We're feeling good about the expirations that are next year for Morgan Stanley.

Jamie Feldman

Okay. Do you have a sense of when you might have an answer on Morgan Stanley, like how early they tend to lock things in?

Stuart McElhinney

Generally, we're not in the business of giving you guys details on individual tenants. I know they're on our big tenant list, I understand why you're asking.

I'll also mention that that's more than one lease with Morgan Stanley. That's not one large lease.

They also have multiple leases with us, which is multiple leases in that 77,000 feet.

Jamie Feldman

Okay. All right, great.

Thank you.

Operator

Our next question comes from Alexander Goldfarb with Piper Sandler. Please go ahead.

Alexander Goldfarb

Hey. Morning out there.

Jordan, on your debt comment and where interest rates are, as you think about the company, clearly, you guys run it on a pretty lowly levered overall perspective. If you think about the individual asset financing that you do and the JV structures, are you thinking that you and your partners would run the buildings with lower leverage, meaning as loans are maturing, you guys would either pay them off entirely or refinance them at lower LTVs, and that way, yeah, you can't do anything about interest rates, but you can do something about where the loan balances are?

I'm just trying to think if you're thinking along those lines.

Jordan Kaplan

It's a little more complicated than that, but you're right. There might be ways, especially with the fact that we're buying at the same time and bringing in partners, to reduce our exposure to the fluctuations in interest rate or to this higher-level interest.

We don't really have high-level debt. I think I'm like many many many of my peers, especially ones that have non-recourse debt.

We haven't been in a position of giving anything back. We have equity across the board.

We're in good shape there. Obviously, interest has moved against us, and it's a cost that's hitting us now.

It's funny, cuz the great news is interest rates will go up and they'll go down. When they're dropping, it's going to be great, because if you really look at our NOI, the way we've maintained our NOI, and the cash flow coming off the properties before interest, it's been outstanding.

Beyond outstanding. As the properties lease up, you're looking at a lot of NOI and a lot of income.

Interest, obviously, has been taking the cream off of that. Then the question is, do we want to do some more permanent things and try and really just reduce our exposure to it?

Or do we go, "Hey, it's a moment in time. We're making acquisitions.

It's helping us get those done at great pricing, and it won't always sit this way." It's better than buying a building at a super-high price, which you live with for the rest of your life, right?

Just thinking through all of that. I think it's really getting in the way of people realizing how well our markets and how well the company's doing operationally.

Alexander Goldfarb

Okay. Then the second question is if you look at what's going on with Paramount and the state attorney general, on that debate and whether maybe they do relocate or not, is there any concern in LA that maybe the environment there isn't even as amenable to corporate Hollywood staying, and maybe that industry will start to morph to other markets?

Or is the view that no, this is just headline noise, nothing is going to change, and therefore, all the office users, there's no disruption to that market? I'm just trying to think about how this plays out and obviously, the saber-rattling that's going on.

Jordan Kaplan

I think the deal's going to close. I'll admit I'm at a little bit of a loss why our state government is against two California companies being here and merging.

Putting that to the side, I think overall it's healthy for the people here. I think you've seen stuff from whether it be David or his father, they're pretty committed to California.

The talent is here. The directors are here.

Frankly, they have giant capital commitments to facilities here. I think it's been running at a low.

Now you're starting to see big movies come out. I'm not sure what's going on there.

Unfortunately, or fortunately, ever really impacts us a lot, cuz the tenants we have are definitely living here, literally in our neighborhood, and they're renting from us because they're living here. Now, when you talk about the studios, we don't own any of that.

I want California to do well, and I want all the industries to be able to be here, but I'm not sure it impacts us that much. Though I do hope that the state gets out of the way and lets them merge, because I think that the new company is going to produce even more, and I think they're going to lean into those big movies.

Alexander Goldfarb

Thank you, Jordan.

Jordan Kaplan

Thanks.

Operator

Our next question comes from Rich Anderson with Cantor Fitzgerald. Please go ahead.

Rich Anderson

Thanks. Good morning out there.

On Studio Plaza moving into the operating portfolio, what besides does it make in the marquee of your occupancy guidance now going forward? What was the impact from that on guidance, if anything?

Is there a cap interest burn-off as a result? Besides higher interest expense that you'd point out, what role did Studio Plaza play in the guidance, if any?

Jordan Kaplan

If Studio Plaza had debt, it would have been included already, but it doesn't have any debt, start with that. Most of the stats for Studio Plaza have been included forever.

It's only the leasing or maybe some type of same-store stats. We've really said it.

The impact is on leasing. It had a slightly negative impact on leasing simply because it's obviously not leased as well as the rest of the portfolio, but it's been extremely well leased, and we redid the building and have leased it up to this point in what I think has been a pretty rapid fashion.

It's moving along at a good clip. We were asked to include it.

People didn't like it being on the outside, we included it.

Stuart McElhinney

I think that part of the operational improvement we mentioned is offsetting some of the interest includes Studio Plaza. It's going well there, and that's part of that.

Rich Anderson

Okay. Outside of Studio Plaza, redev being among your four priorities, you were, once upon a time, making 30% on your money on sort of repositioning activities around the portfolio.

Can you talk about and provide some color about that business? Again, outside of Studio Plaza, where it's happening, if you can provide that, and what types of returns you're seeing today?

Jordan Kaplan

Sure. I don't know 30% or whatever percent, but we have done a very good job over time.

There's a market where they don't really let you build new office buildings, and it's extremely difficult to build apartment buildings. Now, we're talking about repositioning, not new.

We're putting a lot of capital into building new apartments. In terms of repositioning, there's repositioning being done on our resi portfolio.

There's also always repositioning or work done. We're always doing a certain number of lobbies.

We're always doing a certain number of elevators, because we want all our buildings to stay at the top of the market. In terms of perception, a top 10%, 20% of the market.

There's a huge ranking process for that. We're constantly doing work.

If you follow the portfolio for a while, things that people don't even expect, like 12424, it's got a whole new skin now, right? We redid the lobby at 100 Wilshire, all these buildings were getting great rents before too, by the way.

It keeps the building at the top of the market, and you get even more out of it, because it takes what's at our bottom and moves it back up. We've been spending that capital for probably mine and Kevin's whole career, although I will admit we amped it up over the last 5, 6, 7 years, something in that range, and it has paid very good dividends for us to push up into that, top, like I keep saying, 20% range.

Rich Anderson

Great. Thanks very much.

Jordan Kaplan

Thanks.

Operator

Our next question comes from Upal Rana with KeyBanc Capital Markets. Please go ahead.

Upal Rana

Great, thank you. Jordan, you talked about solid leasing activity over the past three quarters.

Could you comment on where some of that tenant demand has changed the most over the past few quarters? Any industries that may have surprised you, either positively or negatively?

Jordan Kaplan

Surprised would not be the word. Now, I am happy that the larger tenants have come back and they came back probably even a little more than three quarters ago, but you've really seen it reflected in our numbers.

The small tenants were always kind of rolling along at a good clip, but when a large guy doesn't renew, it takes many small tenants to fill in the space. Now that we're getting a good dose of large guys and small guys, we're not being left with such kind of visible holes that we have to plug.

I won't say I'm surprised, cuz as I've said many times, I believed in the market, but I'm really happy that that's moving along much better now than it certainly did during COVID and then it kind of had another little drag and then started recovering, then had a little drag down when the Fed came out and said, "Okay, inflation is real, and we're going to start raising rates." Now, it feels like we saw a 2000 and late '24, early '25 bottom, and it feels like we're on a good clip right now.

You want to say something? Go ahead.

Stuart McElhinney

Yeah. Just on the industries, Upal, if you look at our pie chart of our industries, those top six categories that are by far the largest have all had very good demand.

It's remained very diverse across those industries. Legal, financial services, real estate, still all good and active.

Entertainment has been very strong. Despite the headlines, we've been doing good entertainment leasing as well.

Jordan Kaplan

I got to say we keep getting asked about entertainment, I guess vis-a-vis studios, but we're actually doing a lot of leasing to entertainment. That was the solid tailwind between where Studio Plaza is today, but I realize that probably they're not using as much studio space.

Upal Rana

Great. That was helpful.

Then you mentioned the benefit from this quarter's leasing won't be realized until the next 12 months. Your leased-to-occupied spread is now almost sitting at 500 basis points.

Maybe you can quantify how much of the annualized NOI is embedded in these leases. Have these all been signed?

I'm just kind of curious, should we be thinking about this as we roll into 2027?

Jordan Kaplan

Maybe Peter has some kind of idea. Look.

Peter Seymour

You've got a sense of our average lease rate, and you know how much space it is. If it moves in over the course of 12 months, you can kind of do that math.

It's a very meaningful number, and we're very pleased with that trajectory. Expect to continue to add that as we continue to maintain high leasing volume over the next few quarters.

Jordan Kaplan

I have to say, I saw that 450-basis-point spread or for over four—

Peter Seymour

470.

Jordan Kaplan

470. Yeah.

You can't get better news than that. I will tell you, when that spread's wide, we're leasing a lot.

When that spread narrows to below 200, you go, "Well, there's not a lot of leasing going on," because fast and aggressive leasing creates the spread. Almost more than the fact that we're reporting very meaningful positive absorption is that spread gapping out that wide, which might be one of the widest I've ever seen, is an extremely good sign.

Upal Rana

Great. Thank you.

Jordan Kaplan

Thanks.

Operator

Our next question comes from Dylan Burzinski with Green Street. Please go ahead.

Dylan Burzinski

Hi, guys. Good afternoon.

Thanks for taking the question. Maybe, Jordan, just going back to your comments around the team being sort of active on working on a number of acquisitions, have you sort of seen pricing change at all in the last, call it, 6 to 9 months?

I guess as you guys are sort of underwriting opportunities, are you able to share sort of the yield on cost that you guys are sort of targeting?

Jordan Kaplan

We're able to get deals done now. Pricing is down from, we'll call, whatever, 2017, '18, '19, okay?

Probably even 20, 21, 22. Pricing is down from that.

It's this is my 40th year, I've only seen guys selling buildings for less than they bought it for twice. One was in the early '90s, and this is the second time.

That by itself, if you stand back, you go, "This is an incredible opportunity." Now, separately, what's creating more of an opportunity is the fact that it's kind of whatever the beatings have been long enough, rates have been high for long enough, whatever you want to call it, there's starting to be a meeting, but we're getting some people to trade at numbers that work for us, our investor, and them, and they're like, "Fine, I'm out," okay?

That is the biggest thing, right? Because we lived through that 2008, '9, '10, it was hard to buy stuff because rates were very low, and people weren't willing to meet, let's say, the pricing that a bunch of grave dancers were sitting around and expecting in terms of equity yields.

Not a lot of buildings traded. No, what traded was debt pieces, okay?

Now, I actually think some really high-quality real estate is going to trade. You're actually seeing it happen, because we're doing it.

We've already done two deals. I'm thinking this is a very good opportunity, because separate from getting someone to do something kind of out of whack with what the market is doing, there's a real meeting at a good price point, a good cost per foot, and with a good yield.

I go, "Okay, that's everything good. Don't waste this."

We're out working to make sure we don't.

Dylan Burzinski

When you say good yield, are you able to sort of share what you guys are sort of underwriting to at all?

Jordan Kaplan

I think our all-cash IRRs on a 10-year look are probably coming in 10% or better. We haven't seen that for a long time.

Dylan Burzinski

The amount of leverage you use and

Jordan Kaplan

all the rest of it has a big impact. The real yields are obviously different.

Dylan Burzinski

Right. That's helpful, Jordan.

Thanks. Maybe just one last one.

Any update at all on sort of some of the insurance stuff going on at Barrington Plaza?

Jordan Kaplan

I don't have a update you guys would care about. There's an awful lot of paper moving.

I can tell you that. Everyone's asking for more and more and more and more, and [unclear] I don't have any concrete updates, but [unclear] money [unclear] looking at it, and it's getting a lot of attention now.

Dylan Burzinski

Great. Thank you.

Jordan Kaplan

Thanks.

Operator

The next question comes from John Kim with BMO Capital Markets. Please go ahead.

John Kim

Thank you. Just given the opportunities you're seeing in office on the acquisition side, are you putting some of the residential developments, the 8 to 10,000 units, sort of on the back burner for now?

In particular, I wanted to ask about 10900 Wilshire, which is one of the redevelopment projects, I think you said last quarter that was going to start this year, and I'm not sure that's still in the works. Wanted to get an update on that redevelopment as well.

Jordan Kaplan

I still think it's possible for it to start this year. I'll tell you, we purposely slowed it down, because we've gotten some indications that there's some real interest from some large Look, one way or another, that thing will have residential, okay?

I don't want to walk away from an opportunity to have a mixed-use project, and the office can be more profitable, especially if some big tenants say, "I'm going to take this for a while." If we need to give a little time, let it mature.

I said, "Slow it down. Let's just make sure we're not doing something that we lose our ability to accommodate some larger leases that could be in there, and then we would have resi and large leases."

We saw this in Hawaii that as people start seeing what we're going to do and amenities are like, "Well, I don't mind having my office building in that, because look at these crazy amenities, whether it be gym and a club on the top and a pool and whatnot." We have to let that play out a little bit.

It's not that we're not ready. All the money funded.

Everything's good to go on it. We just want to watch a little bit for a while.

That's why we kind of slowed down our language on it.

John Kim

Okay. Given the opportunities you're seeing for investments, and banks no longer redlining office as an asset class, have you thought about re-establishing a credit facility?

I realize you have $355 million of cash on the balance sheet, but just to give you some additional flexibility?

Jordan Kaplan

I have. I do think about that, but I'm going to tell you something.

Every time I think about doing that, and so we have a lot of buildings that don't even have loans on them, right? I always have to compare borrowing cash on a credit line to just borrowing the money and then arbitraging it into an interest-bearing account until I need it and looking at that cost.

For better or probably it's worse, but for whatever, that calculation does not tell you to have a credit line. That calculation just says borrow the money and arb it into an interest-bearing account, because it's a lower cost.

Banks and people that are lending are still charging a lot for unused fees and a lot of fees around that, because they really want to have outstandings. Just click it off, Kevin.

Peter Seymour

Sorry about that.

Jordan Kaplan

I'm sorry.

John Kim

It's okay.

Jordan Kaplan

That was actually my phone, I forgot to turn it off for this call. Stuart went over and took it from Kevin and shut it off.

Okay. It's just a calculation, and if we wanted more capital, we would be better off just borrowing it right at the moment because of where the credit line market is.

John Kim

Got it. Thank you.

Jordan Kaplan

Thanks.

Operator

Our next question comes from Seth Bergey with Citi. Please go ahead.

Seth Bergey

Hey, thanks for taking my question, and good morning out there. I guess just going back to some of the acquisitions commentary, you mentioned it's a good time to be in real estate, and your last acquisition was kind of outpatient medical.

Are we thinking about that all as office, or is there anything interesting in residential or other asset classes that you're focused on? Just on the office piece, how many high-quality buildings are kind of out there that cater to those smaller tenants, similar to how your office portfolio is currently constructed?

Jordan Kaplan

I think there's going to be meaningfully sized, real opportunities coming up, or they're coming up right now. We've been looking for office.

I've always loved medical office, and that medical office came up, and we did it, okay? We also did a large office building, which had an opportunity to be both resi and office.

Actually, plan A was office, and then we said we'll flip to resi because we had them both built in to our analysis. There's some fully leased office buildings that we're really chasing hard, and they're sizable.

They're big. It's us, JV partners, real money.

I would not say you should expect us to buy Apartments are still trading relative to the rest of the real estate in the world at very low cap rates at pretty good pricing. Now, there's a lot of new stuff trading, because they might have financed it with construction loans that were relying on very low cap rates that now they can't get out of their construction debt, it's selling.

In terms of making their hurdles, in terms of rental rate, oh, you see it in our portfolio. The rents have gone kind of better where people thought they'd go, and in general, things are extremely well-leased up.

Those aren't even bought with, you're not getting a [unclear] debt. You just look at the deal like we would buy, cuz we don't use a lot of debt.

You'd go, "Well, the pricing's not necessarily that denuded compared to what it was even in 2019, '18, '20, whatever." I just don't feel a acquisition, it's as good an opportunity.

Office, like I said, a guy that bought an office building in '17, '18, '19, he's selling it today, if he does, for less. He's gotten used to the fact of where rates are, where yields are, and therefore, I go, "Great deal."

We're not seeing that in apartments. Then

Seth Bergey

just a quick follow-up on some of your return comments. Does that include kind of the economics of doing that in the JV structure?

Jordan Kaplan

No.

Seth Bergey

Okay.

Jordan Kaplan

That was a simple question and simple answer. You have anything else?

All right. Move on.

Operator

The next question comes from Jana Galan with Bank of America. Please go ahead.

Jana Galan

Thank you. Thanks for taking the question.

Maybe following up on the apartments and your multifamily portfolio specifically, can you talk to rent growth expectations for the second half of the year given your high occupancies?

Jordan Kaplan

I don't know if you remember, but if you go back, and our revenue was moving at a clip that I said every quarter, "This is unsustainable. We've never seen anything like this.

It's unsustainable." The long-term trend has been significantly less than what you saw the last couple of years.

I would expect to go to the long-term trend. That trend is a trend that you can calculate 100 different ways going all the way back to the 1990s in terms of growth of apartment rents.

I don't know why we would be so dramatically off track. I do know why, but we've been very off track in terms of growth the last couple of years, which has been much higher than normal, and I would always expect it to go to normal.

Jana Galan

Thank you.

Operator

This concludes our question-and-answer session. I would like to turn the conference back over to Jordan Kaplan for any closing remarks.

Jordan Kaplan

Thank you, everybody, for joining us, and we look forward to speaking with you again soon. Goodbye.

Operator

The conference is now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation.

You may now disconnect.