Remy Cointreau SA

Remy Cointreau SA

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Nov 25Next Earn

Q3 FY2026 · Earnings Call TranscriptJanuary 29, 2026

Luca Marotta

Good morning, everyone. Thank you for joining us today.

As highlighted in our press release, Q3 sales grew by 2.8% organically, and this result stems from mixed regional trends mainly driven by, on one hand, solid growth in the US for a fourth consecutive quarter, supported by clearly low comps and improved sequential depletions. They are slightly improving compared to Q2, but less than expected, and they are still negative, talking about depletions in the US.

In addition, EMEA is back to growth in Q3, driven by both divisions, Cognac and Liqueurs & Spirits. Last but not least, on the other hand, China is relatively resilient considering the continued challenging market and excluding an unfavorable calendar effect due to the shift of Chinese New Year timing, which counts for 3 points in Q3 at group level, i.e., 1 point if you consider the year-to-date nine months basis.

Let me put everything differently: would have been flattish over nine months, excluding those technical effects. Q3 sales decline breaks down as follows: volume increase of 8.7% and 5.9% in price/mix effect.

Clearly, Q3 sales increase largely driven by Cognac, mostly in EMEA and China, which is impacted by the underperformance of the high-end brands. Looking at the overall sales performance by region: Americas was up by high single digit over nine months, of which low to mid single digit growth in the Q3.

APAC sales decreased by low double digit over nine months, of which a decrease of low single digit in Q3. This performance is up mid single digit excluding the negative Chinese New Year calendar effect, which is 8 points if you consider that at APAC level.

EMEA declined by low single digit over nine months, but with an increase of high single digit in the last quarter. This was the overall sales performance by region at nine months, with a specific touch on the last quarter.

Let's do the same thing at least at nine months value depletions at group level. In the US, value depletions declined by mid single digit year-on-year over nine months, including a decline of low to mid single digit in Q3.

In China, value depletions were down high teens over nine months year-on-year, including a negative calendar effect in Q3 that waves also in depletions clearly. In EMEA, value depletions decreased by mid single digit year-on-year.

What we can say overall after nine months? As a picture, nine months group value depletion fell by mid to high single digit, more or less minus 7% minus 8%, underperforming sell-in trends minus 1.9%.

Why that? Essentially because of the US restocking from a low basis without increasing the level of stock in absolute value.

However, the gap has widened compared to the H1. Beyond the US and the calendar effect in China, global depletion in Q3 were still lacking a bit of momentum.

I'll be back also with some absolute value during Q&A session, I'm sure. To conclude on this first slide, we are confirming our full-year organic guidance.

We expect organic full-year sales to be between stable and up low single digit, while we expect organic full-year operating profit to decline between low double and mid teens. The latter, of course, includes the estimated impact from tariffs in the US and price undertakings in China.

In a nutshell, no changes in guidance compared 3 months ago. Now, let's turn to slide number 3 in which we can witness nine months sales that amounted to €735.4 million, representing a year-on-year decrease of €52.3 million, or 6.6% on a reported basis.

This performance was shaped by the following factors: First, an organic decline of €15.3 million, as said, minus 1.9%. This performance is split between plus 4.5% of positive volume effect and minus 6.4% of price/mix.

Price/mix effect, the combination, is in negative and has been impacted by both price and mix in the same proportion. Second, a negative currency translation impact of €37 million, or 4.7% loss, mainly driven by the deterioration, conversionally speaking, of the US dollar accounted for around €20 million less on top line, and the Chinese RMB for 11.8%.

Now, let's turn to slide number 4 to delve into organic trends by region at group level. Let's start with the Americas, in which organic sales increased by high single digit over nine months, i.e., down more or less low to mid teens on a 6-year basis.

Year-on-year performance includes a low double-digit growth in volume, a low single-digit negative price/mix impact mainly driven by pricing adjustment. In the US, specifically inside Americas, sales grew by low single digit in the last quarter, driven by both divisions on the back of low base of comparison, clearly, but another slight sequential improvement in value depletion, which is a positive news, but it is not as much as we expected.

Improving nonetheless, but less than expected. What does it mean?

Down by mid single digit year-on-year in nine months, of which down low to mid in Q3. In this context, what happened to inventory level in the US?

In monthly coverage, more or less remains around to 4 months at the end of Q3. In Canada, sales were up mid to high single digit in Q3, underpinned by both division, very balanced picture as well.

LatAm, sales were also up very strong double digit in Q3, and there mostly led by Cognac. End of December, Americas accounted for 39% of group sales, up 4 points compared to the previous year.

Now, turning to APAC. Organic sales declined by low double digit year-on-year over nine months, but increase compared to 1920 to mid to high single digit.

Looking at the volume/value equation, the performance was impacted by low to mid single digit volume decline, while the value part was negative at more than mid single digit. Why that?

Was driven by the underperformance of high-end brands and ranges and increased promotional activity. In China, sales were down approximately more or less low double digit in the last quarter, impacted by the market condition, which remains very challenging, and the strong, I repeat, it's very important, negative Chinese New Year calendar effect, at APAC level 8 points, I repeat, 3 points on the Q3 at group level.

However, the overall performance is almost flat excluding this technical effect, benefiting from the return to normal trading condition in travel retail and a very solid Double 11 Festival. Specifically, this event was more or less plus 15% compared to the previous year.

This was sell-in. Talking about global value depletion, they were down high teens year-on-year.

Given that depletions are roughly in line with sell-in trends in nine months, inventory levels remain healthy at the end of December. Elsewhere in APAC region, rest of Asia showed a strong improvement compared to the Q2, posting a very strong double-digit sales growth in the last quarter, mostly led by Cognac, Rémy Martin and Louis XIII.

End of December, APAC region accounted for 37% of group sales, down 5 points compared to the prior year. Then EMEA region, in which organic sales were down low single digit over nine months and around high single digit compared 6 years ago, primarily reflecting a negative value effect.

Inside this region, talking about sub-region, third-party distributors cluster recorded a mid single digit sales increase in the last quarter, driven by Germany, Greece, Romania. Most of the growth came from Cointreau and Metaxa.

UK and Nordics, sales were down by high single digit in the last quarter, with sell-in below sell-out trends due to the high base of comparison in sell-in, and sell-out was positive in a declining market. Benelux and France, sales were up by low single digit in the last quarter, essentially led by France and in both division, Cognac and Liqueurs & Spirits.

Last but not least, MEIA and CIS, sales were up by very strong double digit, boosted by the successful launch of Rémy VS in South Africa and Nigeria, which bodes well for next year. This was sell-in.

Talking about value depletion, they declined by mid single digit year-on-year in nine months. Overall, with the slight disconnection in EMEA in the last quarter, inventory there slightly increased.

End of December, the EMEA region accounted for 24% of group sales, up 1 point compared to the previous year. Now, let's turn to slide number 5 and the analysis by division.

Let's start with the queen of the division, which is Cognac. Cognac division posted an organic sales decline of 4.3% over nine months, driven nine months by a 5.4% increase in volume and the negative price/mix of around 10 points, 9.7%.

End of December, Cognac accounted for 61% of our sales, down 2 points compared to the previous year. What happened there?

Let's start with the biggest region inside Cognac, which is APAC, and inside APAC, mainland China, in which sales declined by low double digit in the last quarter, affected by the continued complex market condition and clearly, as said, the Chinese New Year calendar effect. Excluding this technical effect, China would have been almost stable, helped by strong performance during 11/11 Double 11 Festival in e-commerce and a return to normal trading condition in travel retail.

In this very tough context and given wait-and-see behavior ahead of Chinese New Year, all channels were down compared to the previous year. Elsewhere, Taiwan reported a weak performance, sell-in and depletion.

Hong Kong and Macau were up strongly, helped by positive phasing and some promotion. Overall, nine months value depletion were down by high teens year-on-year.

In the rest of Asia, sales were up a very strong double digit in Q3, mostly led by Rémy VSOP and Louis XIII. Americas: in North America, US and Canada, Cognac sales were up by low single digit in Q3, underpinned by low base of comparison, a slight sequential improvement in depletion.

Talking specifically of the last quarter, Q3, US value depletion, they were down mid to high single digit year-on-year on Cognac. 12 months value depletion included less 3-point negative price/mix effect on depletion of 3 points year-on-year at the end of December, but on a 6-year basis, price/mix on value depletion remains up double digit, plus 10 points.

In Latin America, sales were up by triple digit in Q3, driven by VSOP and Louis XIII. In EMEA, Cognac sales grew by high teens in Q3.

UK and Nordics were down double digit, however, in sell-in, impacted, as said, by high base of comparison, while sell-out was back to positive, supported by a more targeted pricing approach, new listing and, I remember, in a very negative market. Year Europe third-party distributor was flat in Q3, strong improvement versus Q2, helped by a more flexible pricing approach leading to market share gains.

MEIA and CIS were clearly up by triple digit, leading the EMEA Cognac progression in the quarter, led by South Africa on the heels of the Rémy Martin VS recent launch. Finally, Benelux and France were up by mid to high single digit.

Lastly, nine months EMEA value depletion were down low double digit year-on-year. Now, let's turn to slide number 6 and the same analysis for the other division, Liqueurs & Spirits.

Liqueurs & Spirits division reported a plus 3.7% organic sales growth in nine months, driven by solid volume increase of plus 5.7% and a negative price/mix effect of 2.1%. End of December, the division of Liqueurs & Spirits accounted for 37% of sales, up 2 points versus the previous year.

Now, let's review the division performance by region. Let's start with the Americas, in which North America sales were up by low to mid single digit in the quarter, driven by Cointreau, The Botanist, which both deliver positive depletion in Q3 as well in a declining market.

Specifically, Cointreau and The Botanist Q3 US value depletion were respectively up by low single digit and low double year-on-year. Additionally, price/mix was down only 2 points compared to last year for the 12 months rolling basis period ending December, but increased by 16 points on a 6-year basis.

Valorization compared to 6 years ago, in both sell-in and even more on value depletion, is bigger, is higher on Liqueurs & Spirits compared to Cognac. Latin America, sales were down by low single digit in sales in Q3, impacted by price increase in Puerto Rico on Cointreau and following tariffs and fake also alcohol issues in Brazil in São Paulo.

In EMEA, second region by importance for this division, sales were up by mid to high single digit in the last quarter. A break in sales done further: UK was up there by low single digit in Q3, led by Cointreau, Port Charlotte, Octomore and Telmont.

The quarter benefited from the positive effect linked to the distribution gains, this is particularly the case for The Botanist, from new innovation launches, Cointreau RTDs, and a greater pricing agility. Overall, the UK is gaining market share alongside positive sell-out in a declining market.

Europe 3 third-party distributor sales were up there by mid to high single digit in the quarter, led by Germany and Greece, as said. Overall, we recorded a solid growth from Metaxa and Cointreau.

Finally, Benelux and France were up by mid single digit in Q3, while MEIA and CIS was down mid single digit. This was sell-in.

In parallel, nine months value depletion were down by low single digit year-on-year. Then, inside this division we have APAC, in which in China sales were down high single digit in Q3, mostly impacted by Cointreau, which faced aggressive price environment and competition, and in parallel, nine months value depletion were down by low double digit.

Rest of Asia was down by low double digit in Q3, impacted clearly by Australia due to a phasing and very high comps. We're missing a part of the turnover here, which is the non-group brands, which represents 2% of group sales and they were stable year-on-year in terms of weight, but they recorded an organic decline of 1.9% in nine months, affected clearly by the performance of the most exposed country, which are Benelux and UK.

Approaching to the end of the prepared presentation and before switching to the interesting Q&A session, let's now turn to slide number 7 talking about this yearly 25/26 guidance. We are today confirming our expectation both for sales and for operating profit.

In more detail, we expect organic sales growth to land between flat and low single digit increase. At the same time, we expect an organic operating profit decline between low double and mid teens.

Nothing changed compared 3 months ago. This guidance clearly includes the net impact of tariff, which estimated this time of the year at around €25 million net, of which €5 million in China and €20 million in the US.

In addition to this organic performance, there are also currency effect, which remains very negative and highly volatile. While our hedging policy helps to mitigate part of the adverse impact, the recent evolution and ongoing evolution of the dollar and RMB leads us to expect on sales between €50 million and €60 million reduction of the turnover on published rates, of which 60% will occur in the H2.

Operating profit, it is a bit reversed in term of phasing, between €25 million and €30 million negative effect, of which one-third should occur in the H2. Exchange rate volatility is likely to persist throughout the year, which is why I will continue to keep you updated on a quarterly basis.

Please highlight the fact that, so far, it is not changed compared to 3 months ago as well. One final word on our transformation journey: as mentioned in the press release, the program is now effectively underway, starting with a very granular diagnostic phase across the main value creation levers.

What we are talking about? Route-to-market, number 1.

Revenue growth management, number 2. A&P and procurement, 3 and 4.

As well a more generic, broader review of our cost base and operating model, in line what we shared with Franck Marie at the end of the H1 during end of November presentation. By the end of April, next conference call on Q4, we expect to be in a position to communicate the key strategic priorities that will start to be implemented in the fiscal year 26/27.

Thank you for your attention, and now happy to answer to your question. Give me 2 seconds to drink a bit of water.

Thank you.

Operator

If you wish to ask a question, please dial pound key five on your telephone keypad to enter the queue. You are kindly asked to limit yourself to two questions only.

The next question comes from Laurence Whyatt from Barclays. Please go ahead.

Laurence Whyatt

Morning, Luca. Thanks very much for the questions.

A couple from me then, please. Firstly, in the US, we've seen reports of some substantial improvements in some of the depletion data, and I appreciate it's a short time period when we look at the weekly Nielsen data, but, of course, do you think we should be taking this seriously or do you think there's some sort of timing effect that perhaps means that these improvements are perhaps erroneous and due to other effects?

Then secondly, you may have seen today there's some reports of some very strong sell-in into the Chinese New Year period in China. Do you think those reports real?

Are you seeing similar effects on your brands going into the Chinese New Year for 2026? Thank you very much.

Luca Marotta

Thank you so much. Let's start with the US.

As said, we are both at the same time positive and a bit less positive news. Why I'm saying that?

We are continuing improving that, and we think that we will continue to improve to your questions. Yes, we are on the right track, but the speed, the magnitude of the improvement is a bit deception compared to our expectation.

Why that? That we are sleeping and we are not so good?

Market is really declining in a bigger way compared to our expectation. Even if our performance are not excellent compared to last year, not positive, and a bit of deception compared to our expectation, the market declined as well.

In this specific moment, we are performing better globally than competition, which is something which is very important to highlight. It is not what we expected totally, a bit of disappointment, but considering the global environment, we're doing a hell of the job on the field.

Kudos to our teams. Chinese New Year dynamics: It is globally this morning global good touch.

It has just started, we are relatively optimistic. It's not so far what it seems to be the Chinese New Year campaign of the century, we have been in a better position before.

We are in wait-and-see with opening attitude by ourselves as well, like the market. Far, good.

Coming weeks and days are very important, but we are not excessively optimistic, but you are not negative as well. A quite a balanced attitude, still at the beginning with Chinese New Year, and also to manage expectation, it will not be the Chinese New Year of the century, but relatively optimistic.

Laurence Whyatt

Thanks. Just on the first question, I was specifically referring to the data we've seen in January in the US, some of the extreme improvements in the US Nielsen data.

Sounds like you don't think that that is a sustained improvement, but

Luca Marotta

Yes, it's very complicated to comment on that, but don't remember there is also a lot of weather, bad condition right now that could impact the second part of the month. Right now also the depletion on effective way because there are some problems in many states with the snowstorm and technically the depletion can be affected by that.

It is true that what's happening is helping declining the stock at retail points of sales. Once again, moderate optimism.

We are doing a touch better than competition, still negative. For us, it's very important, like for everybody, for us even more because it's tough to have a negative depletion figures since a lot of months.

It is very important also in terms of symbolism to switch to positive land. Relative optimism, and cautious, and an overall touch of modest optimism overall for the China and the US.

That's also the reason why, despite the mathematical negative forks between sell-in and sell-out in the Q3, we are confident so far at this stage clearly to confirm the guidance. Because even if there is this fork, and then we back on this point because we have to look that on absolute value, not only as a percentage, it is clearly not affecting our guidance at this stage.

Laurence Whyatt

Super. Thank you very much.

Operator

The next question comes from Edward Mundy from Jefferies. Please go ahead.

Edward Mundy

Luca, morning. Two questions, please.

The first is your comments on doing a touch better than competition within China. I think you've historically said on these conference calls that your mix, i.e., bigger in Club and smaller in XO, your route to market, i.e., that big direct-to-consumer business, and your channel exposure, i.e., probably smaller in the traditional on-trade, has allowed you to outperform competition.

Could you perhaps talk about some of those drivers? If the market starts to improve, should you be one of the first companies to see that improvement, is my first question.

Then the second is on currency. Clearly, you're keeping your guidance unchanged for fiscal '26, but there have been some recent strengthening of the euro versus both dollar and Chinese yuan.

I know it's probably a little bit too early to start giving guidance for fiscal '27, but based on what you're seeing on spot prices and what you know about your hedged rates, is it a roughly similar outlook from a percentage standpoint for fiscal '27 relative to fiscal '26?

Luca Marotta

Thank you. As said, as you understood, Chinese New Year just started.

We are in a very cautious position, but I repeat, it will not be the Chinese New Year of the century, but there's no need at this stage to be negative as well because some good dynamics are installed. Relative optimism and a clear reactivity on all channels.

In terms of channel exposure, I repeat, even if all channels in Q3 were negative in China, including e-commerce, we cannot deny that the global confidence of all channels is reduced compared to one year ago. Globally, we are in a position which, with a wave, with the lift of the global situation, we can profit that essentially with e-commerce, the fact, as you highlight, we are less focused on trade.

Today, we are between 5% and 10% on trade compared to the other. The fact that we are more direct than others, one-third of our top line is direct to clients, which no indirect wholesaler or indirect channel framework involved, makes that we should be in a position to profit.

As well, we need to look at another element compounders, which will be very important for all our region, for the company as well, which is the needs also to improve the free cash flow conversion as well. There is a point that today is early to talk about that, is clearly a triggering point to be analyzed during June full-year presentation and where with Franck we will detail the guideline for the year 26/27.

There is some opportunity to grow, and then needs to be profitable, but even more important, and a faster cash conversion growth compared to the previous habits. In term of currency, there, as you may have understand, it is really really really crystal ball because it is very very early to talk about forex impact for the next fiscal year.

I understand your point. Let me share you what do we stand for next year in terms of coverage.

Far, for the 26/27 estimated net currency needs in terms of US dollar and pegged currency, we are more or less covered between 65% and 70% at more or less 1.16, with 60% of options, a bit costly, but very flexible. This year, we'll be landing between 1.12 and 1.13.

There is a negative hedging impact. I'm not talking about conversion because this is also influenced by a lot of macroeconomic and geopolitical element that I do not master.

I watch and adjust. I cannot do more than that.

For Chinese New Year, which is increasing the weight, the weight historically was far bigger, now it's 50% of our needs of net currency are US dollar pegged, and 34% is Chinese yuan RMB pegged. The Chinese yuan is very much more important than the past.

We are 60% more or less hedged at 8.4 with 70% option. This year, the hedging average weighted rate will be between 8, 8.10.

Once again, in both of them, we need to understand that without being precise in terms of the absolute value, the hedged, granted coverage rate for 26/27 will be giving less euro than this year. Let me be clear on that.

How much? Eyewide, I don't know.

Which is important also to be taken to account for our EBITDA, including the forex, clearly cannot drive the management of the company. We are organically driven, but need to be considered for the free cash flow conversion rate, which, I repeat, is already the case, but even more important than in the previous past as a element to manage the company and the compounders.

Edward Mundy

Okay. Thanks.

Luca Marotta

I hope it was clear.

Operator

The next question comes from Chris Pitcher from Rothschild & Co Redburn. Please go ahead.

Chris Pitcher

Thanks. Good morning, Luca.

Two questions, please. Firstly, on your US price/mix, you've clearly gone through a big adjustment from where you were sort of during the pandemic to, I think, you're 10 percentage points still above.

Franck was quite clear on the previous call that you were going to be less dogmatic about price. Are you at the level where you're comfortable now, the relative pricing, or do you still see further weakening in price/mix, particularly as you're seeing the outperformance from Louis XIII?

Then secondly, I'm just intrigued by your comment, your specific reference that you're using an external consultant or support from an external consultant in your diagnostic. Can you sort of explain what it was that you think Rémy was lacking that you needed a sort of an external set of eyes to try and work out the strategy, because it sounds expensive to me?

Thanks.

Luca Marotta

Thank you. Thank you so much.

Let's try let's start with the the business question, then let's talk about transformation, which is business as well. Price/mix is negative, as visible, 3 points, declining a bit compared to the to the previous year to year-to-date.

What this reflects right now? Let's explain, then we talk about the future.

Price adjustment to $49.99 on VSOP on most states, price adjustment on XO also, because and then see XO also, price architecture all down, fell down a lot. We are not a leader on on on XO, clearly.

We need to be follower, reminding that gross margin, even if we don't disclose the absolute the the the figure, but gross margin of XO for everybody in in the industry is clearly a very strong element. It is every every time you are able to increase one case of XO, you increase clearly the the accretive impact in cash and a profit and loss profile big time.

High-end segment underperformance on 12 months compared to the to the to the mix. The revitalization of VSOP, the the resilience of 1738 squeezed a bit not as an effect, a matter of fact, the weighted average.

Negative format sometimes also on Louis XIII because limited editions, such a Rare Cask last year, are not replicated. When you have this kind of limited edition, can play a role.

A lesser expense talking about Cognac specifically, the price repositioning on Rémy V. On top, as a company, you have clearly the outperformance of Liqueurs & Spirits compared to Cognac.

What will happen next year? Are we improving the price/mix?

It's too early to answer in very precise way, but we need to understand that the gross margin target group level, and clearly also in the US, as a as an important element target remains. The fact that we need to improve every year in gross margin, it is not the way the world today is is composed.

We cannot grant that we are able to have the same pricing power of 2, 3, 5 years ago. On that, I back I'm back to the free cash flow improvement.

We need to be a bit more commercial and need to move volumes a bit faster to improve globally the turnover and the free cash flow conversion. Am I saying that the future the profit will fall?

I'm not saying that. Free cash flow conversion and profitable, but also liquid growth, it's more a priority now than the past.

The global environment is less keen to absorb price increase. Or if you do that, we will eventually have an impact on volumes in declining and complicated market.

In a nutshell, you cannot modelize big price increase overall in the in future, and more playing on the to improve the gross margin, to adjust it or to limit the fall in a mix game, channel, territory, and new format, new product, eventually improving the speed of the innovation.

Chris Pitcher

Is it unrealistic to consider you might come back into VS?

Luca Marotta

Never say never to anything, but so far, no way on the US. No way.

Why? I read some of your pre-note today.

I will not drop the name, but when talking about will recognize himself. We cannot consider that VS is a technical positive effect in this moment in EMEA, because every time you do that, you have some dynamics, maybe also cannibalization, and you have to count about that.

Doing that as VS globally as a name in the US, I don't think will happen. You have witnessed the presentation of Franck Marie end of November.

I'm not talking about VS, but was also a placeholder for a launch of eventually new products, clearly for the American market, which a different approach. I'm not talking about VS, but, I repeat, a more spread tackling new segment of market, higher and lower, of the old brands, including Cognac.

In the future, I think the name and the codes of the competition face-to-face will change, and everybody will try to get rid of it, launching new concept, new product that are able to install new price positioning inside the global category, being more interesting, sometimes wild in term of competition. The world of franchise fighting each other with the same name, I think could be bypassed.

One second that I drink a bit of water.

Operator

The next question comes from Trevor Stirling from Bernstein. Please go ahead.

Luca Marotta

No, no, no. I need to answer to the other question of Chris of the consultant as well.

I answer only to the question number 1. The second question, why going externally?

They have a lot of benchmarks to leverage quicker. We need to install a mentality of change, and having this kind of example benchmark will be very concrete to show what we can do better without denying the values and the things we are doing correctly right now.

At the same time, we need teams to be focused on a daily operation, because we are not running at plus 10% without any problems, what the point to lose 1 or 2 points commercially? We have to let teams that are there that fight on the field to try to grab any single bottle.

Doing that with the help of the external qualified organization will also limit the focus on these specific projects inside the company. They know all players, there is, as you highlighted, we are doing that quite widely, talking about top line, A&P, and also operational footprint.

It is 360 degrees, more or less. There is a strong mutation for the way of consumption all around the world.

We need to touch point in different ways. If you don't do that with a specialist, A&P ratio, which is already at 20% for us, risk to increase without having the payout to be measurable.

Need professional to be able to increase the touch point, at the same time deliver efficiencies and maybe stop doing some other touch point. We need clearly this help to open our eyes with an additional qualified opinion that will help us decide.

Then we will decide. We are quite opinionated.

We will not buy everything. We are quite respectful of the history and the tradition.

That is a very strong asset to the group, and sometimes can be also considered an element that means that we are maybe sometimes a bit less fast than others, but we are more consistent maybe. That's the reason why.

On top, the clear triggering point is to improve top line and turnaround of the company, increasing the capacity to win, to gain market share, volume and value on the market, improve the free cash flow conversion, without forgetting that even if we have a strong weight of costs compared to our size today, don't remember we already cut €230 million, more or less 12% of our overheads and 9% of accountancy. We can do it on a base which already without any specific global restructuring plan on a day-by-day improvement and without any bigger plan already reset a bit the base.

It is enough? No, we need to go further.

These are the main reason why we needed to do with an external help and more than that, an external eye to be able to watch what's happening for us a bit more than the past.

Operator

Thank you. Trevor Stirling from Bernstein, your line is open.

Please go ahead.

Trevor Stirling

Morning, Luca, and morning, Celia. Two questions from my end, Luca.

First one, returning to China, you mentioned that excluding the Chinese New Year effect, that you thought China was flattish, but presumably that means you've got that easy comp in travel retail. The other channels, ex-travel retail, are still negative or presumably mildly negative on an underlying basis.

I just wanted to check if that was the right way to understand it. The second thing was intrigued, Luca, in your presentation, I think three times you referenced Louis XIII's strength in Asia ex-China, in the US, and LatAm.

Is this just easy comps or is there something more in terms of the underlying improvement for Louis XIII?

Luca Marotta

Thank you for the question. For your first one, yes, GTR gave some room.

Out of GTR, we are not at the same level of performance, but only for the Q3. If you consider GTR for the nine months compared to this year, and we have the most important operators are still in double-digit negative compared to the previous year.

I expect this to continue, and technically speaking, the same comment for the VS. For me, they are not technical effect.

This one are more than a catch-up or the normal way of acting. Yes to your question, but still on nine months it is not accretive.

The GTR reopening is still a big negative, big big negative. It should be better.

Louis XIII, a bit of momentum and highlighting that we are there. Louis XIII, it is clearly not the same, without giving any figures, in the same shape and weight than 5, 6, 7 years ago, but our teams continue to fight and to be able, when we can, to grab a specific market share, even if the global worldwide environment is less keen to this kind of high-style product.

There is a specific market. It is not only a matter of pricing, but there is a bit of momentum that we count to have an additional positive impact clearly in terms of image and DNA, but even more in terms of our compounders, our financials.

Trevor Stirling

Brilliant. Thank you, Luca.

Operator

The next question comes from Pierre Tegnér from Oddo BHF. Please go ahead.

Please unmute your microphone and go ahead.

Pierre Tegnér

Yeah. Hi, Luca.

Pierre Tegnér speaking. Thank you for taking my question.

I would like to come back on your previous very interesting comments on adapting asset rotation equation of the economic model. My question is, how we have to think about the future in term of better balance between the P&L and the balance sheet?

What I mean is, have we to think about more asset rotation at the same level of operating margin, or is there much more a kind of trade-off, if I may, in term of margin and asset rotation?

Luca Marotta

Thank you for your question. A very interesting.

Please forgive me because I cannot be totally precise, because as Franck said very clearly, guidance for next year will be shoot in June. Some and the whole plan for the future 5 years will be disclosed later, far later in this calendar year 2026.

Generally speaking, clearly, when we think of future of the company, we will be a bit less sentimental in terms of brand, asset, everything. DNA is the same, but cold, pragmatic, real compounders figures will be even more on the table to be discussed.

Then the decision would be at the end a collective board of directors decision, Franck direction, but the financial point of view will be increasingly important. On this point, thank you for your question, you have to put in a scale weighting the three big element we have financially speaking, which is balance sheet, free cash flow and P&L.

All three are very important, but will be even more skewed towards free cash flow generation, free conversion, progressive balance sheet solid, robust dynamics, increasing the age and balancing long-term asset and liabilities, with a bit of more flexibility inside asset priority rotation, and as a consequence, the profit and loss still remain very important, because EBITDA is an important compounders of a ratio clearly, we don't forget it, but more in absolute value that in profit and loss model in percentage base. Absolute value, absolute cash, absolute EBITDA are more important the percentage of operating profit compared to the top line.

I cannot be more precise than that, sorry.

Pierre Tegnér

Very very useful. Thank you, Luca.

Operator

I will take a last question. The next question comes from Tilly Eno from Morgan Stanley.

Please go ahead.

Tilly Eno

Hi, good morning, Luca. Thank you for taking my questions.

The first is on the US. While your depletions and sell-out trends are declining at a similar rate in Q3 as in Q2, the overall spirits market saw quite a sharp deterioration over calendar Q4.

Could you just talk a bit about what you're seeing at the wholesaler distributor level in terms of behaviors and if there's any sort of indirect impact from potential inventory pressures on your plans? Then my second question is on China.

You've spoken previously about some heightened promo activity. Just wondering, are those pressures largely within the Cognac category, or are you also seeing a bit of price competition from other international spirits categories, like say the sort of lower-priced whiskey?

Thanks very much.

Luca Marotta

Sorry, I didn't get the second one clearly, because Oh,

Tilly Eno

sorry. Just the second question on China, where you've previously mentioned some sort of mix impact from promo activity.

Is that largely concentrated within the overall Cognac market, or other subcategories? Thanks.

Luca Marotta

Talking about US US depletion in terms of flexibility, we'll try to speed up that is switching progressively also the A&P mix more the fast-moving Cognac lines. For the Liqueurs & Spirits, we did already part of of this job and is witnessed by the by the performance.

In term of distribution, clearly, situation is not totally sit on a very easy easy way, because everybody knows some of the different situation that are happening right now inside the wholesaler footprint. All in all, to improve the depletion US speed, we are switching part of the, as I said, A&P more on BTL, less brand awareness in long term and more in the short term.

For the China promotional activity, it is a bit spread. It's not only inside our our category, but our category even more.

On that, we are increasing as well, but far less than our competitors, also because, as was highlighted before, we have one weakness that becomes a strength when talking about promotional activity, which is our exposure to the on-trade, back to 10%, which is low in terms of brand awareness in the long term, but protect us a bit in term of promotional depth. In that case, we have many types of forms of promotional support that can be driven not only money, but also testing bottles and so on, banquetting and so on.

We increase our promotional footprint far less than the competition is more general, not only specific for our for our for our category.

Tilly Eno

Thank you very much.

Operator

There are no more questions at this time, I hand the conference back to the speakers for any closing comments.

Luca Marotta

Thank you so much for your time today. I would like also to end with the last point.

The question was not asked, but it's very important. If you look at the Q3 between sell-in and sell-out dynamics, it seems that sell-in is positive, no, plus 2.8%, and depletion negative.

The normal brain reaction is that you are stocking. The answer is, many languages, no, niet, nein, bu hao, en-en, non.

Because if you consider the absolute value of the depletion is more than €20 million comparable basis compared to the sell-in. What we have done in the all together the 3, 4, 5, 6 quarters to rebalance sell-in and sell-out has helped us to land in a very balanced stock equation in absolute value.

Clearly, we have exception state-by-state, but overall, even if the compound is in percentage level will tell another story, is not the case. Q3 was destocking, even if sell-in was increasing and sell-out was decreasing as a percentage, because the base of sell-out was and it is bigger than the base of sell-in.

Thank you so much. Talk again at the end of April and stay tuned.

Ciao ciao.